Eat shit [insert private company here]
Intuit is anything but intuitive
Honestly, they’re probably thrilled. Legislation forced them to provide a free product for this sort of simple, no frills filing, so they won’t be losimg any paying customers to this and probably won’t have to spend dev and qa time supporting the free tier anymore
Free if you have no other exemptions to file.
1099? Nope Depreciation? Nope Tax credits? Nope
Makes for a great headline though.
Im sure those of us that do have exemptions other than the standard will see our tax prep fees skyrocket
Some progress is better then no progress, and TurboTax et. al. losing in any way is a victory for the rest of us.
Why is the USA the only country to have those problems, AND complain about getting free stuff?
are you not capable of taking a win? it’s a HUGE step towards disassembling predatory cpas and tax software.
it’s a HUGE step towards disassembling predatory cpas and tax software.
Its a regular sized step, as its targeted primarily at simple filers. But the cutoff is incredibly low. You can’t use it if you’ve got retirement savings through an IRA, if you’ve got deductions for college expenses, or if you’re claiming the child care deduction. I’d wager that’s at least half the people who bother to file returns.
Definitely good news for folks that H&R Block likes to fleece - anyone collecting EITC or Child Tax Credits and not much else. But hardly universal.
do you think it won’t eventually add that stuff? pretty naive to just “meh” and basically call it a failure. nothing happens overnight.
It’s not a “failure” but I wouldn’t call it a huge win either. It’s a small victory with a tiny horn to toot.
IIRC there was a free version of Turbo Tax that did the same thing years ago… so we’re catching up to the old free version now.
*An old free version that was purposefully hidden and buried by reverse SEO tactics, but yeah
Yeah, very limited, but it’s very good for more than half of the population that don’t have enough deductions to exceed the standard and don’t own property (if you properly count houseless “households” that earn income as not owning property and not just renters like most statistics). It’s dumb that they have to file a return anyway just to acres money that never should have been collected. Most just don’t know how to properly file their W-4 to not have taxes withheld in the first place. Mostly because they follow the directions and/or are afraid of paying a fine plus interest.
Anyway, it’s a step in the right direction. And if we can unbury all of the staff out of the pile of paper returns, we can devote some to go after the rich and their frivolous, often fraudulent deductions and have them pay the tax they owe.
Most just don’t know how to properly file their W-4 to not have taxes withheld in the first place.
How do you do this? How do you calculate what to personally withhold and pay? Is it simply calculating through the income tax?
There’s a worksheet that usually comes with it where you answer questions about your living situation - single/married, homeowner/renter, how many kids, etc. - and it gives you a number to put in. It’s pretty accurate. I’ve done it at every job and aside from years with tax credits I’ve never gotten back more than a few hundred bucks.
I’ve had 1099s and tax credits and I’ve never sent in a paper return. I keep the records in case of an audit but it’s not like e-file hasn’t existed forever.
But it hasn’t always been free to file electronically. The government made it required for them to offer free versions for simple returns, but that was recent.
Also, access to the Internet isn’t universal. You’d be surprised how much of the US doesn’t have affordable Internet and a fair number don’t have Internet available at all, or limited to just dialup which is not very useful. And a lot of apps don’t work right on phone browsers, especially older phones, so then you need a desktop or laptop which a lot of people don’t have. Some have access in libraries, but a lot don’t or traveling to a library is a burden. And lots of other reasons that internet isn’t a given for a large portion of households. So paper is still not just necessary, but the easiest way.
I would suggest you get hired by the IRS and start rewriting all their ancient code to build in and allow every deduction rule and that it’s applied correctly every time so everyone can use it.
The tax laws are so large and so complex and the code running all this stuff is so old and now locked in because they didn’t keep up with updating their software as they went along. I’m amazed they got this far. Oh, and like you, I can’t use it either. But that’s why I have an accountant.
I read
1099? Nope depreciation. Nope tax credits? Nope
why isn’t this constitutionally protected.
Can we pass an amendment for this shit? It’s actually kind of fucked up.
Kind of? Are you going to tell us that the US healthcare system is “sorta silly” next?
Sorta silly?! It’s fucked beyond belief. Source: me, someone who profits off the healthcare industry as a corpo. Sorry 🤷.
god if i had the arcane knowledge of the entire field of healthcare, i would do some unbelievably fucked up shit.
And by that i mean writing open documentation that is continually maintained and represents most healthcare providers in the US specifically to fuck up their entire existence.
Doo iiiiit! (If you can).
Honestly I do the best I can to fudge numbers and drive down prices, but I can only do so much. They’re eventually going to catch on and replace me with someone who doesn’t give a fuck.
lol, perhaps one of these days i will have enough expendable income and time to dedicate to this kind of shit.
It’d make for a rather fun experience.
From a certain point of view? Yes.
i mean, it is sorta silly. Not full sillyness, full sillyness would be forcing people in immediate life threatening injury to recite the ABC’s backwards before operation as protocol.
Sure, there’s degrees of silly
i spose there would be, but at the end of the day. Silly is a rather silly word to be using in this manner.
I have a couple of other constitutional amendments I’d like to advance before this.
idk man i think i disagree honestly.
Tax is one of the very few constants that we all have to legally deal with, aside from like, auto insurance.
Wait really? What’s the catch?
Doubt there is one. The hard truth is that most Americans’ taxes are pretty simple and straightforward. We can stop pretending that copying some boxes from a W2 and a 1099 is difficult.
I mean, personally I wish we’d stop pretending that the IRS isn’t already fully aware of what you owe and could just do the filling for you, like in other countries, but until Grover Norquist fucks off forever we’re stuck where we are.
Right. Filing taxes should only be necessary if you have itemized writeoffs or wish to contest the IRS’s statement of your tax liability. They already know what you earned their your employer, what’s been paid in taxes, what basic credits your qualify for, etc. They know what you owe so long as you didn’t have expenses to apply for that they couldn’t assume or know about. The only reason they don’t already do that or, at least until now, have a free public system for filing, it’s because tax companies have lobbied for decades to be able to milk the public for cash to help them file and navigate their tax liability.
The argument has been since free filing means only the wealthy will hire accountants, free filing would discriminate against the poor given a few mistakes will be made here and there.
I may not need to mention that disingenuous argument is made by the pirates at Intuit and their lobbyists.
free filing would discriminate against the poor
As opposed to the current system where the richest among us can hire a whole team of accountants to find every deduction possible?
Shhhh!!!
It should also be noted that if the vast majority of people do nothing special on their taxes and just accept the government’s assessment, then that leaves a much smaller group of people to be audited. And a much larger portion of those people will be those who are trying to weasel their way out of paying their share. Right now, with the IRS being criminally underfunded, they only focus on low hanging fruit, the small fries. With those people being boiler plater auto-accepting tax payers, that would mean the IRS has no reason to audit them and can focus on the big boys where the real cheats are. That’s another big reason we do not have that sort of system and why the IRS is currently so underfunded (despite every dollar spent on the IRS generating between 5 and 9 dollars in revenue from tax fraud/evasion). Those kinds of people pay to make sure it doesn’t happen.
Ew
Holy Christ someone using disingenuous appropriately, I’d almost given up on the word. Thanks for saving it!
How exactly is it usually misused? Its use here matches every other time I’ve seen it as far as I can tell
I always see it being used in place or dishonest for people who think they are the same and feel it makes them sound more intelligent.
I can tell you’re being ingenuous and I believe you
Oh didn’t know it was misused!
🍻
I understand why we do out taxes in the current situation, kinda. If the irs just sent you a bill it would be ripe for people thinking they were getting ripped off. People hating taxes and thinking they’re getting robbed is about as American as it gets. The whole boston tea party thing. People on both side doing the math holds people accountable. Also the current tax bracket situation kinda needs some end of the year math. Now, if it was a flat tax, a fixed percent… THAT EVERYONE pays no matter how much you make then it would be easy math. But they gotta make sure the middle class is paying 22% of their income to the feds and the billionaires pay one tenth of a percent… you know… for reasons. Then there are a billion write-offs and loopholes the rich can exploit, so they gotta keep those there.
If it was, say, 5% for everyone, no matter what you make, then it could easily just come out of your check as you get paid with no bs at the end of the year.
A flat tax is a poor tax. 5% of your income means WAAAAY more to someone working minimum wage with two kids than someone who has a second home, even if dollars and cents it’s way less. And the wealthy will evade a flat tax as much as they already do a progressive tax.
In italy the data is pre-filled, you just have to check if there’s something missing and you’re good to go, but you still have to send the module manually, like going into the website and doing the stuff.
It should be all automatic, wtf
Don’t they just assume that everything is good if you don’t reply? Works that way here
It’s not a “reply”, it’s a thing that you have to do, so that if you owe the government something you’d pay it, elsa you’ll receive money if the government owes you something (for example, a percentage of medical expenses gets “refunded”)
Here if you owe something you’ll get basically billed for it and if you are owed they just inform you about it and pay it to your account. If you are owed or you’re even then you don’t have to do a thing. No confirmation, nothing to do, you can ignore the whole thing. Is it the same for you guys?
Unfortunaly not 😂
most Americans’ taxes are pretty simple and straightforward
Once the reporting for income over $600 from shit like eBay sales, Venmo, etc kicks in, the 1099 they issue would make free filing ineligible
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You’re acting like the filing that would come from the government would be the final record and you wouldn’t be allowed to correct it, which is not at all what people are suggesting.
Plus, audits will still be a thing.
y u no be nice about it :(
All of those things you mentioned are edge cases which you would still be able to handle yourself if they auto filled everything for you.
I use an online tax service which scans my w2 and filles it out. It still gives me the option to edit stuff but I mostly just check to make sure things look good.
Unless it’s changed from the pilot, it’s only useful if you file a 1040EZ or take some really basic deductions. Anything beyond the basics, like any kind of investments, means you need to use a different tool.
But freetaxusa is still free for all but the most complex cases.
From the article:
The pilot program targeted people with simple tax returns based on W-2 forms. In her remarks today Yellen said that over the next few years they will expand Direct File to support more situations.
But even that would cover a large percentage of the American workforce, and I imagine over a few years, it will grow to cover all users that don’t need personal accountants. Progress is progress.
Personally, I hope this transitions into a system where they email you a proposed return and you do nothing to accept it (only needing to take action if there’s an issue).
I’d say it’s still a win, and I’m hoping they expand upon it.
I expect that you’ll have to pay the money according to the statement
The catch is that Turbo Tax and H&R Block are gonna lose a ton of revenue
It probably doesn’t do state taxes.
I was in a pilot state (Arizona), and I looked into it. It’s only for federal taxes. You need to file state taxes separately.
There are already several online tax solutions that offer free federal and charge for state.
Does Arizona not have an online free system? Illinois has a very hand-holding guided set of questions and has for years, it’s always been our federal taxes that make my head hurt to fill out via the IRS’s FreeFillableForms site.
You get to pick which oligarch or corporation gets your tax money this year!
Welcome to 2005, America!
Huh, I went to check - we did it in 2003 (for vat and income tax iirc, ofc they expended it since, nowdays only courtroom stuff doesn’t have online admin systems).
Prior to that you just got the (already filled out) income tax form in the mail - if everything was ok that was usually it. In case you still owed, it included the bill, it they owed you they wired the money to your bank.
If the tax forms were incomplete for some reason (or just not optimised between the members of the same family) you could fill in what they missed (like literally with a pen) & send it back (for them to verify & return it to youb revised).
(This system still works so folk who prefer to do it via paper can do that.)
Hold my beer…American pulling out checkbook
Mine was too complicated to file for free because I have retirement investments? Seems like a silly reason to force someone to use a paid service.
You’re not supposed to be wrecking our economy like that. Spend, baby, spend.
😂😂
Sounds like having any 1099 is ‘too complicated’. So anyone with any sort of savings account that managed to get $10 of interest over a year… So if you have like a thousand dollars in a boring old savings account you are ‘too complicated’.
Yep, kinda surprised me to be honest.
Yeah. Mine was “too complicated” because I had an HSA. Are you fucking kidding me?
Feels like a ruse
The catch is that it requires ID.me, and there is no way in hell I’m giving some third party a picture of my fucking drivers license.
Seems odd. They’ve been pushing login.gov like everywhere.
…to print my ID in the first place?
(But yes clearly worse to allow personal data to be stored in an additional system.)
Right, my government also gave me a number at my birth. They know where I live, they know how much I make and where I work. The third party, ID.me, definitely does NOT need any of my information, since the entity that is taxing me, already does.
Depressing thought: there’s a remote possibility the government is inept enough trying to roll around verification system that a third party has a safer solution.
Positive thinking: maybe the government is just using a third party until they’ve had time to make their own service entirely bombproof. Let’s go with that for our sake.
And then ID.me becomes the new TurboTax and starts lobbying the government to not compete with them.
Noooooooooooo
The problem is that given all of the data breaches, anyone can use your social security number, address, etc. and file a return on your behalf.
In theory, that’s what ID.me is preventing.
But if your wallet gets stolen, good luck.
Huh, I already signed up for it because they started requiring it a while back to access historical tax return documents through the IRS website.
Why, do they sell data?
It would not surprise me in the least, but more importantly, if they get breached and they have sloppy mechanisms in place, my license could be fully out there in the wild. May be whatever to some, but I think it’s too risky to trust some company with it that also has contracts with the government itself.
Wouldn’t they need to already have your data to check your driver’s license against it?
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No, we have 50 states to get through as well. And then all the municipalities.
God, it’s times like this where I wish we merge some states.
Sorry, but still very far behind on this and many other things.
Biden did that, among many other great things for the average american citizen
Good. Now make it work for everyone’s tax situation.
Even without access to Direct File since I wasn’t in a pilot state, I’ve been using the IRS’ “Free Fillable Forms” for the last few years and they’ve worked great! They don’t hold your hand as much as the paid software but for my returns they’ve been more than adequate and free!
Does anyone know how “Direct File” differs from the “Free Fillable Forms”? Does it hold your hand a little more and help you find credits/deductions? Free Fillable Forms worked well, but only so long as I knew what I needed to file. New circumstances, like adding a dependent, lead to a lot of research.
Yes, direct file is guided with a checklist. However there are only certain situations where a taxpayer would qualify for direct file - there’s income limitations and only certain income types qualify (u would not be able to use it if u are self-employed or own rental properties for example). The IRS is planning to expand this but for now it’s limited tho the vast majority of taxpayers would qualify.
Anyone can use the free fillable forms but u either have to know what you’re doing or be comfortable reading irs form instructions if you have a more complex tax situation.
how much longer til they just do it for me and leave me the fuck alone?
🤞
He gets it
Dude’s face alone has accounting credentials: https://www.congress.gov/member/brad-sherman/S000344
I’ll take that over celebrities as politicians any day
Now if we could do like other countries and just have the government send a pre formatted document of things like wages, dependents, and other taxable items so we all know what we owe because the government has all that information already. Add what you need as far as write offs or other income and send it back. Done. None of this collection of tons of different forms, figuring out what percent you can write off, etc. and submitting it all hoping you don’t get it wrong and get audited or owe fines and interest.
As a tax accountant, I sincerely hope this gets to a point where a vast majority of the population has no need for my services.
I used to play in the big leagues where none of my clients would ever qualify for this and their returns routinely took upwards of a hundred hours to complete. Those guys need to keep paying.
Now I play down in the minors a couple steps above the Block, and I hate seeing the owner sell these three or four hundred dollar returns that might take me an hour to complete in the first year and maybe thirty minutes in subsequent years.
That’s a very interesting transition. Was the catalyst neutral or happy one, or perhaps a sad one?
Mutual disdain was the catalyst. I did it for eight years and probably lost fifteen years of life expectancy from it. Ungodly toxic environment. Fuck big firm accounting. Fuck them all in the most demeaning, painful way imaginable.
I make roughly one third the money today, and I’m much happier for it. I still make a comfortable living where I don’t particularly worry about money, so what would the additional two thirds do for me outside paying medical bills it causes?
No matter how much I try to remove my name from searches, I still get recruited by ambitious young people on a regular basis. I generally make them stop with a response that goes something like this:
I would rather have my eyes gouged out by the white hot barbed penis of Satan himself while he spits in my mouth than return to public accounting for any amount of money.
Fuck TurboTax, fuck H$R Block
