Fake: Anon is employed
Gay: Anon gets fucked by his employer
You’re a dumbass if you save your vacation days without inquiring if they stack.
This reminded me of another stupid person who don’t understand how work works.
If you work 6 hours, you get a 30 minute break. 5 minutes for every hour. This new hire who was on a work program as he was unemployed and didn’t study, thought that meant he had 5 minutes every hour and 30 minutes if he worked a 6 hour shift.
So for every hour he went out for a cig, gone for 5-10 minutes and sometimes 15-20. We had to go get him several times. After a few days he was handed a stern talking to, where he would argue for his understanding of the law. He called the boss a dumb bitch for not knowing how it worked. He never came in the following day.
Makes sense why he was unemployed
Pretty sure they have to give you cash for them when they expire
I actually disagree with this. Then employers can pay employees less and say “well then you should just not take time off”. It’ll make situations where people cannot afford to take their holidays. If anything, you should just have them automatically waiting in a stack at the end of the year.
That used to be true, but many companies moved to Personal Time Off(PTO) instead which doesn’t have that requirement. Will vary by state and country, but I can confirm in Florida and Gerogia in the US that it’s use it or lose it. No payout necessary, even if laid off.
They do not, unless you have an employment contract that says otherwise.
Hell - here’s how fucked up it is - my SO worked in clinic that wasn’t open on holidays, but offered no holiday pay, so employees had to use the 10 or 14 vaca days they got to cover their 7 holidays, which they couldn’t have worked if they wanted to. ‘Ready, able, and willing’ is how the law is worded, for salaried employees. But these things are meaningless relics of old times when labor had some power and wasn’t just the fleshlight of the rich.
my SO worked in clinic that wasn’t open on holidays, but offered no holiday pay, so employees had to use the 10 or 14 vaca days they got to cover their 7 holidays, which they couldn’t have worked if they wanted to.
That sucks. I get 9ish holiday days/year (ish because sometimes we work New Years and get the holiday day for it the previous year) and we start at 2 weeks vacation in addition, with it going up with seniority, eventually capping out at 5 weeks. It is use it, sell it or lose it though - new vacation is granted at start of year and expires at end of year.
I believe my country (Canada) mandates this.
However, I’ve had employers that simply paid out your vacation pay on every paycheque, it was a pittance of like $30 if that…
So they never “accumulated” any vacation time for workers and couldn’t give any fewer shits if you took your vacation or not. They would only give a shit if you took too much time off for vacation.
Beyond that, you’re on your own.
I never took vacation.
Idk what the criteria are, but I dont get paid for unused vacation. Idk if its a salary/hourly thing, paid/unpaid, or maybe state/country labor laws, but its not universal
Where dafuq it stacks? AFAIK in most of the world it is either paid out in the end of the year or is wasted and goes nowhere.
In Czechia (not sure if by law) you can take half of your days off to thr next year. So, if you had 20 days off a year, you have to use 10 (HAVE to, they don’t just fizzle out) you can stack 10 to the next year, so you can have up to 30 a year.
In Czechia (not sure if by law) you can take half of your days off to thr next year. So, if you had 20 days off a year, you have to use 10 (HAVE to, they don’t just fizzle out) you can stack 10 to the next year, so you can have up to 30 a year.
In Czechia (not sure if by law) you can take half of your days off to thr next year. So, if you had 20 days off a year, you have to use 10 (HAVE to, they don’t just fizzle out) you can stack 10 to the next year, so you can have up to 30 a year.
In Czechia (not sure if by law) you can take half of your days off to thr next year. So, if you had 20 days off a year, you have to use 10 (HAVE to, they don’t just fizzle out) you can stack 10 to the next year, so you can have up to 30 a year.
In Czechia (not sure if by law) you can take half of your days off to thr next year. So, if you had 20 days off a year, you have to use 10 (HAVE to, they don’t just fizzle out) you can stack 10 to the next year, so you can have up to 30 a year.
Depends on the job. Some will let time carry over… It’s pretty rare to carry over for more than a year… Anon is a dumbass.
United States Postal Service, 440 hours (55 days) max accumulation of annual, temporarily increased to 520 hours/65 days since the pandemic, and unlimited sick leave rollover. Accumulated at a rate of 13 annual days and 13 sick days per year once you’re a career employee, and 20/13 after 3 years.
California doesn’t allow “use it or lose it” vacation policies. Vacation rolls over up to a reasonable amount, which apparently isn’t super well defined, but my employers have generally set a limit of 2x annual.
Employed in the US, I can stack up to 240 hours. After that it’s use it or lose it, so I just take a few hours off every week.
hours
the US labor rights are so bad they have to measure time off in hours 😭
Genuine ignorance and curiosity - do y’all only do days? If you have to take half a day off, do you round up or down? And so I can have some context for your answer what country are you from?
To be fair, 240 hours divided by an 8 hour work day is 30 days. That’s pretty good amount of time that can roll over. Where I live it isn’t measured in hours but there is less time that can roll over than 30 days.
I also fully recognize that I have a fairly generous employer. I don’t think my experience is representative of most Americans.
I can carry a max of four days to the next year, but the system doesn’t track it so it’s an “honor” system
which basically means leverage to fire you over it if they even need a reason
In Austria, vacation days expire two years after the end of the vacation year in which they were created. So you can save up vacation days, but not all of them for four years. You can do things like: go on only two weeks of vacation in year 1, then eight weeks in year 2.
Are y’all getting 5 weeks of vacation a year? My American mind cannot comprehend this.
I’ve been at my company for almost a decade and I think I’m a bit over 4 weeks of vacation, a good chunk of that is due to seniority.
Yes, legally required for all employees. 6 weeks for employees who have been working at the current company for a very long time.
That’s marvelous.
Is “very” long on the scale of like a decade or multiple decades?
at least 13, at most 25 years depending on various factors (how long you have been employed in total, how long you studied in school/university, and other factors)
That certainly is a good chunk of time, but 5 weeks minimum is stellar!
Cheers!
I worked at a place where I could carry over something like 2 extra weeks I think?
In France, companies can choose if they stack or not, but you’re usually forced to take them after a certain amount has accumulated.
This doesn’t apply in Australia. It accumulates (as does sick leave and long service leave) and if you don’t use it you will start to be asked to start taking it after a couple years.
Took you 4 years to decide to fucking read your contract?
Lol, it’d be nice if they gave you one to read, but that’s generally not the case.
I read mine. My boss sent it to me 2 days before I actually started working there, then he let me work there for a week before actually signing, with all benefits being contractually valid from the day I started, not from the day I signed.
If you never saw your contract, get a lawyer.
We have this information but it’s usually pamphlets, not a contract you sign. I haven’t ever signed a contract for a job. I’ve signed things, yeah, like NDAs and stuff or an offer letter, but that’s it.
How do you sign it then?
Usually it’s an NDA or something.
What do you sign when you start your job?
Honestly never heard of no contract, what country is this?
You sign an offer. Then there’s a separate pamphlet with benefits they hide in the depths of the supply closet somewhere.
My position is a state position in Europe. Since the specifics of the contract are standardized, and can be found online (theoretically), I didn’t have to sign a contract to start working. I hated it… still do, even if the job is overall good. I only have a piece of paper from HR stating that the state granted me the position.
That should be illegal in any country
In Brazil you have a month of paid vacation for each worked year and you can’t work for more that 2 years without using your vacation time. HR would force you to take your vacation time even if you don’t want.
Know your contract. So many people get burned by what they thought they could do, or what they thought their employer couldn’t do, because they don’t know the rules of their employment. General rule of thumb: if it’s not spelled out in the contract that an employee can do a thing, the employee can’t do it. If it’s not spelled out somewhere that an employer can’t do it, you bet your ass they’re gonna try to do it.
as a heads up, if you can save enough money to take a sabbatical, you should. It was the greatest time of my fuckin’ life.
Someone talked about how his company was willing to give someone a six month sabbatical to keep this other dude around but the guy didn’t take it. I was like that’s the stupidest thing I’ve ever heard, just take it and then leave when it’s over or whatever. And the person telling me this explained how he wasn’t like that and wouldn’t take advantage of the company. It just felt really weird. I don’t experience true jealousy often but this was one of the times I have. Companies have never treated me well like that. The idea that people would just act like a 6 month sabbatical is something normal is fucking insane. I even told him that’s crazy and I heard of and he said no, it’s something a lot of places do. It’s such an insanely privileged take to talk about it so casually.
Just to put it into perspective, the sabbatical isn’t meant to be frequent and usually you’re not meant to be paid, just have a job to go back to after. If it’s available, it’s somewhere where you’re quite senior and been working there for a long time.
For my sabbatical, I just straight up quit; I wasn’t even playing to stay in the same country after it was over.
I know, but I’m talking about someone being offered a sixonth paid sabbatical.
I’d love to but all the logistics are overwhelming for me. What made your sabbatical so good? Was it easy to finance?
Was it easy to finance?
I mean… yes and no? I earned about £35k+ per annum between between 2013 ish and 2017 ish, and didn’t spend much money on hobbies and such and being frugal. So I was saving money without trying that hard, and figured that about £16k was enough to take a year out to try to learn spanish and slightly change careers, if I spent about £1k a month.
What made your sabbatical so good?
The complete freedom, living on my own, being able to work on daily and long term goals. I lived in a town that was near london, so it was (kinda) cheaper, walkable, 1 h away from london so I could visit from time to time, and had a climbing center nearby.
I took the time to get regular exercise, work on my mental health, learn spanish and just live at my own pace. I even travelled a little (I had a holiday I booked in 2017 for 2018 that I was going on anyway to visit LATAM, and Behold The Arctopus was playing live gigs again for the first time in 5 years, and obviously they were not coming to europe, so I went to NY for like 5ish days (3 days + 1 night + 1 morning). [EDIT : I also returned to my country of origin for a month to save money/drop off sentimental value things/visit family, and en route away from europe I visited Denmark to be with a friend for a week for the last time in ages]
I’d love to but all the logistics are overwhelming for me.
What logicistics are causing you issues? I stayed in the same place I was in while I was working, and all I had to do was quit my job. There’s not much to do… oh. You must be from the US? Healthcare? Good luck with that shit.
I have questions. How were you able to live for a year on 16K? Even if we disregard healthcare, that wouldn’t even cover my mortgage. Let alone food, or especially travel and fun. You Were able to afford a phone? Utilities? Did you have any extras, like streaming services? I’m guessing you have the luxury of public transportation, so I can understand no car payments or gas and maintenance costs.
Granted, I do live in the US. But I can’t imagine everything is that much more expensive here. £16K is like, $20K right now, I’d live for maybe 2 months on that.
Let’s see…
16k is about 1,300 a month. I paid about 700 for rent, and 2018 was before the current inflation wave, so 1,698.95 in today’s pound sterling, leaving me with about 600 a month
I was on calorie restrictions as part of my “get/stay in shape” , and usually ate pasta, rice, eggs and protein powder, with vegetables whenever , small amounts of cheese and condiments/hot sauce. My usual goal for food budget was £10 a day.
Other expenditures were internet, electric, water and climbing gym membership. That’s it. I think I was buying CBD vapes at the time for my anxiety as well, but that was a more occasional expense. I can’t remember how much those things were, maybe 40 for internet? I can’t remember my mobile phone plan.
No car, no subscriptions, or other recurring costs. NHS for healthcare.
$20K right now, I’d live for maybe 2 months on that.
You spend 10k a month?? I currently earn somewhere between 4-5K dollars , what do you spend that money on?
I was thinking wrong. I was going off my salary rather than my take home. After taxes, health insurance, and retirement, it’s about $6k.
$1360 for my mortgage, which is really quite good as it’s only 3.25%. Im pretty stuck in my house with current interest rates. $516 for one of my cars. $343 for one of my watches. About $300-400 for electricity in the summer, $80 for natural gas. $368 for car insurance. $168 for phones. $87 for internet. And $309 on a loan for some renovations. $30 planned parenthood donation. Typically about $40/week for gas.
Amazon prime, Disney+, Spotify, Netflix, Paramount+. Idk what else. I guess the rest is just groceries, eating out, and hobbies.
That’s just the stuff I pay from my income, my wife and I never got joint bank accounts. She takes home about 3k, and she pays for our other car, which is $327, her student loan, which is $300, and childcare which is $295/week. Plus she puts money in the savings account.
This discussion is making me think about the number of subscriptions I have, and the amount of expendable income I waste.
This discussion is making me think about the number of subscriptions I have, and the amount of expendable income I waste.
yeah, I have no idea why you’re spending 343 on a watch every month. Also, this just re-validates my perspective that a car would just ruin me financially, and would have done so my entire life.
Well, I could have just bought it. But it’s a 0% interest loan. Same thing I did with my other two luxury watches, and it’s almost done. Having a two year commitment to it definitely keeps me from looking at any more! I really like watches. It’s probably my last one for a long time, anyway. Kids are expensive. $8600 for a watch over two years is cheap compared to $15k a year just in childcare. That’s just one kid.
You can have a car for a lot less, but we have relatively new cars and I opted for a lot of insurance for my own peace of mind. If we had any public transit options, we could get by with one car for sure. But there is nothing here. There is a city bus system that primarily caters to the low income, which is a great start. But it really only goes to like, the grocery stores and the urgent cares. Nowhere near our daycare, and definitely way short of the 30 miles to my office. We also have a shuttle bus that you can call for, that’s only $3 a ride, but thats really just for the disabled and elderly. I’d say we have better transit than a lot of metropolitan cities I’ve been to, but obviously our society is completely car-centric.
That would have been the first thing I’d check … seems standard practice.
Depends on the country you’re from, not an issue in Australia for example
IKR!
seems standard practice
I was like where?? America?
Every time I come on here I just fuckin love Australia more and more
Same in NZ. That would be illegal here. They can force you to take leave, or they can pay you out, but it can’t just poof
Isn’t “go poof” the means by which to force taking leave?
I mean, they can tell YOU to poof, but they can’t make your LEAVE go poof like in the op
My last job, I was an engineering team leader. They had me working so much, with different time zones, I was regularly working 70+ hour weeks. There was no time for vacation. So, I had weeks left at the end of the year. It would have gone poof. There was no carry-over. So, December 4th, I made myself go poof. That last paycheck was absolutely delicious. It was multiple paychecks worth. Suck it, old company.
What really sucks is that it was a German company, and the Germans got awesome perks like 35hr work weeks. Beer in the cantina for lunch. They were FORCED to take all their vacation. Instead of asked to cancel.
I still don’t get how an employer FORCES you to take leave. Not rolling over PTO is a reason to coerce people into planning time off.
Now overworking and not approving said PTO would be a different type of fuckery. However, truly unlimited PTO accrual is just a terrible liability for a company.
Yeah. I mean… I kinda sympathize, but yeah. Vacation days disappearing if they go unused for a year is pretty common.
Does Anon think they were the first person to come up with the extended vacation plan? If no, then wouldn’t it make sense to find out why it wasn’t more widespread?
Standard is for your workplace to force you to take a vacation if you build up to much. It should be illegal to remove your vacation.
I was shocked the first time I had vacation days expire without any kind of notification that I had miscalculated, and there was no payout or anything for the lost hours. I mean, the vacation days are part of the negotiated reimbursement for work. The deal is I give my time doing whatever I’m asked, and in return they give me money and time off. They shouldn’t be able to not give it to me because my napkin math was wrong.
To me it is no different than if you were paid by physical check, and if you didn’t pick up your check fast enough they threw it away and didn’t pay you. If I hadn’t already been radicalized, this would have put me over the edge.
I’m assuming that’s the US your talking, here I couldn’t save up days like anon’s super genius plan but they wouldn’t all disappear.
The most likely thing to happen would be they would just force me to take the holiday. If I started trying to do that round about this time of year they would be telling me to take a month off somewhere. If I didn’t do anything at that point they would just randomly start booking time off for me. There isn’t a way for me to stack them exactly.
Try and take holiday and they refuse the time because there isn’t capacity then they have to pay you for that time.
But there’s no system where they can just vanish your days.
That sounds nice
They can also pay it out as wage instead at the end of the year. It’s the standard practice around here if you accumulate above a certain threshold. Nothing gets lost, except that you pay taxes on wages but not on vacation.
Telling you to use it or lose it is essentially forcing you.
Yeah but theres a huge difference between being forced to use it (and still getting paid vacation) and losing it(no vacation and no pay).
Maybe unpopular but I’m not of the opinion that a business should babysit a grown adult and monitor their PTO and make them take it.
How do you even imagine it? Can you force someone to take their PTO at any time? Or only when they will absolutely lose it? (End of year)
So a company will lose how many days at the end of each year trying to force their staff to take days off?
As long as the employer has any say in, when the PTO is taken, they have a responsibility Period
How do you even imagine it? Can you force someone to take their PTO at any time? Or only when they will absolutely lose it? (End of year)
In my country you have to inform your employee, when their vacation days are about to expire and make measurable efforts to find a vaccination schedule that works for both of you. Or else they don’t expire.
So a company will lose how many days at the end of each year trying to force their staff to take days off?
Or you know, you could talk to your employees and work out a schedule over the year, that works for both of you. If you, as a business, are unable to do basic management tasks, then yes you run into the situation, where you are functionally unable to do business at the end of the year.
They have a responsibility to let you know, yes. And they have to actually let you take it. Beyond that should be personal responsibility.
Here are my expectations and how I normally experience pto policy at work.
- HR has in writing company PTO policy. When and how to apply, how many per year, rollover policy.
- HR provides friendly reminders in email to use it or lose it and the deadline is coming up.
- HR provides a decent software system that tracks your PTO balance and history and is easy enough to use to request time off
- HR reminds managers to approve PTO unless there is some issue in which case HR should help handle
If a company does the above then the employee has no one to blame if their days are lost.
Not sure where you’re from, but it’s pretty common here in Australia. I think there are a few things to addresses.
There are two mechanisms a company might make you take leave.
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A company shut down period. Eg company is closed over Christmas to new years and requires employees to take a week of leave then.
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Over a threshold of leave. Leave won’t evaporate at the end of a calendar year, it builds each day and can only be used or paid out. Companies will often have a threshold, for example 8 weeks of leave before they may require you to create a plan to use it, or pay it out. The reason an employer does this is staff leave is a liability on the books. Eg If you make $100k, 8 weeks leave is approprimately a $16k liability for the employer.
8 weeks. Haha man that’s like a pipe dream.
I think PTO works kind of the same in most places? My point is you can’t really force an employee to take PTO and if they ignore their PTO policy that should be on them.
If a business closes down for Xmas new years, then you’re but really taking PTO right? Workplace is closed. If you force PTO to be taken and most of your staff dragged their feet or didn’t read their email, then essentially you’re unable to operate for the last month of every year
-
I kinda agree. I think my old company did a reasonable job. We calculated vacation days via accrual, and I think you could have, like, 6 weeks accrued at any given time. At the end of every month, HR would send out emails to everyone who was near their limit and tell them to use it or lose it. This usually resulted in me saying “oh, okay”, and then scheduling one or two vacation days per month just randomly.
Vacation days disappearing if they go unused for a year is pretty common.
What?? Where?
Only ten days transfer to the next year in Spain. But even that seems like more than US gives in a year, so not too bad
I can use them only through march of the following year in Germany
But your employer is forced to proactively nudge you into taking your days off. If they request you to take your vacation and you still don’t do it, they might even be required to suspend you from coming to work. A least for the minimum of vacation days per year that are required by law.
They can’t just say nothing, wait until April and say: Haha, now your PTO is expired.
wow that sucks :O
Yeah, America. And you should love Australia. It’s getting increasingly fucked up here.
I had to take three separate 4 week vacations one year since my company was switching to a max accrual so I had to get below the mx by years end.
Why would one need to save up vacation days to take a “full paycheck” off? That is one month, so 20 working days? 20 working days should be very common mount of available vacation days per year (at least in EU)?
20 working days should be very common mount of available vacation days per year (at least in EU)
Americans:
I probably shouldn’t mention that 20 days is the legal minimum for full-time employment, and that 30 days is the typical amount most people receive. And there are extra days for getting promoted or working 10+ years…
I moved from my homeland to another EU country. When applying for a job through an agency, they asked me if 27 days of vacation is enough for me, cause typically everyone have 30 or more days in this country. I looked at her, smiled and said “Yes, that is enough”. Little did she knew that back in my town I had maximum of 20 working days vacation + by the contract I was not able to take out more than 10 days in a row.
The European mind cannot comprehend this.
Flexing on us with that parenthetical statement
Oh I was assuming a 2 week pay period so 10 days and still not all that surprised that someone would get that. Someone working part time more than likely won’t get get any vacation nor sick time at all in America.
…stateside standard for private-sector salaried positions is ten working days per year (combined illness/vacation) which begin accruing after a six-month probationary period; some employers increase that to fifteen or twenty days for long-tenured staff after several / many years of continuous employment, but it varies…
…for hourly positions, you’re paid only for actual hours worked…
…government positions tend to be much more generous with holidays, vacation, and sick leave, although compensation is typically lower than the private sector; large corporations often fall somewhere between those two extremes…
That’s pretty shitty PTO policy you’ve worked under.
…yep, eight employers over three decades?..pretty sucky but also pretty ubiquitous, and every time you hop jobs you start over from zero again…
You don’t get paid out your vacation time?
Oof.
I haven’t had that little vacation or PTO with 9 employers over about the same time. Except for my first few years.
Current company does PTO so I negotiated 6 weeks (effectively sick and vacation) plus the 8 holiday days they recognize.
I’m on a three week break and that’s like normal summer holiday for most of us in France. I’d even say on the small side because we can’t really be away that much from our respective jobs. The main difference is what one can afford to do during those three weeks, for sure, but otherwise we are paid the same.
A full paycheck for an extended period contains many paychecks.
They didn’t notice getting paid out for all of their vacation days?
I’m guessing it was USA and they were just lost.
Yup. The only thing you can count on from your employer is what they have already given you. I don’t believe any promises.
They just get lost in the UK too, most places seem pretty good about making sure you take them though.
At the first full time job I had in Oz there were a bunch of old dudes who had each accrued over a year in untaken annual leave. The company had to crack down on it and make them start taking it because it was a huge liability, both financially and as a risk to actually getting work done. They had to develop plans for them to take it a couple months at a time.
Won’t mine don’t. If you still have days they either make you take them or they pay them out, about 3 years ago I had about a week due and it was around Christmas I wanted to take the week before Christmas off but it wasn’t an option and they had to pay me the days back. They were very cross about, but it was their fault for miscalculating staffing.
Interesting, I got the impression it was a regulatory requirement. My wife’s firm did the same thing, but maybe it was just company policies where we worked.
Yeah this happened to me as a Kiwi living in the UK. First job over there. My boss just let me take them, even though they had all expired.
What a champ!
Gosh, I’m quite shocked at the UK. They are not ally pretty good for workers rights.
The worker in Australia may have accrued long service leave. It’s a seperate entitlement that means younger 3 months leave at once,.on top of holiday entitlement, after working somewhere for 10 years.
Older contracts and union deals can be quite good in the UK. I would bet if this company doesn’t have a union that newer employees would be limited in the number of days they can transfer to the next year, likely less than a week.
Yeah the company I worked for let you shift 5 but you had to take them within the first 3 months
No no, this was multiple old guys and in addition to long service leave, they just never took leave.
For the UK I think the policy is in support of worker rights, in a round about kind of way. If you let people pay it out then they might never take leave and won’t get the benefits of actually having had a break from work.
If I got paid out for my vacations, I would not take my vacations ever. Probably a good thing they don’t pay them out.
Many places don’t pay them out - use or lose.
That’s fucked up
'Murica
Not fuck life. Fuck your boss
Both. Both is good.
Not my preferred way of getting promotion
But a time-honored one
That’s something that isn’t even guaranteed by law in Germany. But it’s part of the contract very often (with restrictions like the company can make you take your vacation days and such). So yes, check first before you start „saving“.
Even if it is part of your contract, I’d still suggest you talk with your boss about your plans beforehand. Just so both sides are in the same boat and your employer can also plan ahead, knowing that you’ll be gone for two months next year. Otherwise they might not even allow you to take all your time at once.
Afaik by law vacation days never expire in Germany, except if the employer explicitly tells you they do. So yeah, check your contract. But if the contract doesn’t mention it, and you did not get a written warning, your unused vacation days are usable forever.
My contract explicitly states that they don’t expire. So I never had to check the law and just assumed it’s the other way round. 🙂
