Yall need to learn some history.
The liberal SDP split with the communists, supporting “centrist” Hindenburg in the name of unity.
The communists campaigned on “A vote for Hindenburg is a vote for Hitler is a vote for war”
Hindenburg won the election, getting more votes than either the communist or fascist candidates.
Hindenburg, the liberal candidate, then proceeded to make Hitler the chancellor and staff positions of power with nazis while purging the government of communists.
The nazis then barely had to do anything to assert complete control.
The nazis didn’t get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Those lib kids would be very upset if they could read
The Nazis didn’t get in power because communists stayed home, they got into power because the liberals would rather work with fascists than communists.
Lets not bury the lede. You run weak Democrats, you comprise with fascists (or just do the policies yourself; Biden’s border bill, Congressional support for making criticism of Israel a hate crime) : this is the path you put us on.
It looks a lot like in a way History is repeating itself: the Democrat Establishment in the US (who are a hard neoliberals, not lefties) fielded directly and without a Primary a guy like Biden who is less than in his prime and even supports an ethno-Fascist regime commiting Genocide (and, more importantly, is unwilling to walk back on that support even to improve his odds of winning against Trump, which is what we are being told is the most important thing in the World) all of which is making it far more likely that the Fascists will get power.
There are vast contradictions between what we are being told is the danger of Trump getting elected and the DNC and Biden persistently making choices that increase the chances of Trump getting elected and not walking back on those.
Surelly if “Stop Trump” is the most important thing in the World for them, the Democrat Establishment too would be walking towards the wishes of the electorate not just trying to push the electorate to do all the walking towards the wishes of the Democrat Establishment.
the democrat establishment is already getting what they want from voters and the system and they won’t get any of the blame should they lose; so they both have no reason to change nor do they have anything to risk by trying something new.
those contradictions you referenced are the centrists version of fox news stoking the culture war, but more vague because they’re trying to appeal both both centrists and leftist; that and project 2025 are the talking points that the moderates are parroting to justify against voting progressively, thus proving martin luther king’s opinion of the the american moderate is true.
and lets not forget what stopped hitler wasnt electoralism. it was the soviets, and they needed force at that point.
And the Ukrainians, and the Poles, and the French resistance, and the British, and the Americans, and the Canadians, and…
the soviets were the ones to bear the weight of all the casualties. while your heroes were sipping tea waiting for them to be destroyed by the nazis…
the british, really? americans? yall need to open a history book. ever heard of operation paperclip? or how anticommunist most of these were?
Exactly, the country that shared a massive land border with the NAZIs and was a direct target of their aggression suffered many more casualties than the ones what didn’t, who’da thunk it? Without the combined efforts of essentially the entire rest of the world, the USSR would have been toast.
The USSR did most of the work beating the nazis. America helped.
yall need some history. the USSR and germany did not share borders until much later, the west was nowhere to be found by the time they reached berlin.
the us mostly really only helped by the end when victory over nazis was already on the horizon.
They didn’t share a border until the Soviets and NAZIs jointly invaded their neighbor Poland.
no such thing as “jointly invaded”
During Hitlers Ascent to Power, the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them. And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means “liberals”. They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
the communist still considered the SPD to be the bigger threat and refused to march with them
…which was confirmed when they agreed with the Nazis… And when they collaborated with the Freikorps to crush, torture, and murder the communists.
And the SPD of the 1930 were by no means “liberals”. They were further to the left than any democrat has ever been.
Go ask Rosa Luxembourg, leader of communists in Germany and murdered at 47 at the order of SPD, how progressive and left the SPD was. “Left is when you agree to murder and torture communists”. Fucking revisionists man
They agreed with Hitler? They were the only faction voting against him during the Gleichschaltungkrise.
“Left is when you agree tp torture and murder communists”. So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
No, both SPD and KPD were way to the left of all pther political parties and had they banded together, like they did during the Kappputsch, my homecountry wouldnt have been destroyed and 60 Million People would probably still be alive. After every other institution failed Germany, these two failed them in conjunction by not even trying to organize a joined force.
So we both agree that the Stalinist Sovietunion and the KPD, which allied themselves with them arent left?
One country ended up with Nazis. The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I’d say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn’t they? The fact that there was oppression against Mensheviks and SRs in the context of a civil war, doesn’t mean they’re anticommunists, they didn’t quite literally enable the Nazis in order to murder the ones who were more communist than them, but defeat them instead.
Want to find the blame for Nazism in Germany? The fault is primarily of Nazis, and then of Nazi enablers, and then of anti-communist leftists.
The other ended up defeating the Nazis. I’d say the Bolsheviks did a better job, didn’t they?
Uh. The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa. The Soviets carved up Poland between themselves and Germany, and tried to invade Finland (Winter War, Continuation War), which is why the Finns ended up allying with the Nazis after Operation Barbarossa.
Got it bro, the actual Nazis aren’t the Nazis, neither the ones who eliminated the most radical oppositors to Nazism, but actually the ones that died 26+mn of trying to fight them. God, you anti-communist revisionists are exhausting.
The Bolsheviks actively collaborated with Hitler and the Nazis, right up until Operation Barbarossa
Ugh, not this Nazi talking point again… The Soviet Union pursued for all the 30s a policy called “collective security”, in which it desperately tried to achieve mutual-defense pacts with England, France and Poland because the soviets knew that their 15-year-old nation which had only just started industrializing since the end of the feudal and backwards Russian Empire, didn’t have a chance alone against the Nazis with their 150 year long history of industry (as would be seen later with the USSR suffering 26+mn deaths during the war, in places like Belarus 1 in 4 people died). The USSR wanted these mutual defense agreements to the point of offering to send 1 million soldiers to France and England if they agreed to mutual defense… which France, England and Poland denied because they thought Nazis would attempt their declared goal of eliminating communisnm and massacring the “slavic untermenschen”. After this was denied and it was obvious that the west would rather see the USSR invaded than reach a mutual defense agreement, they did the only possible course of action: delaying the war as much as possible to prepare for it and industrialize a bit more. That’s where the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact takes place, not before a decade of exhausting every possible negotiation route with France and England in opposition to Nazism.
The fact that the USSR then proceeded to (rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall, very comparable to the oppression within the USSR itself) invade Poland, has to do with the USSR not trusting the Polish government. Why? In 1917, the Bolshevik revolution drafted an unprecedentedly progressive constitution which granted the right to self-determination and lawful secession to all peoples of the former Russian Empire. That’s how many countries such as Finland or Poland suddenly gained independence lawfully and peacefully in a never-before-seen act of respect of the right of self-determination. What did Poland immediately proceed to do? Become fully nationalist, ignore the right to self-determination of other peoples, and invade Ukraine (and later the USSR) in an attempt to gain territories they considered theirs by historical right. When they had conquered a good chunk of modern Ukraine and Belarus, the Polish Government decided it was a good idea to start a war against the USSR, since the USSR was plunged deep into a civil war and didn’t have many resources or troops to defend itself, and some conquests and victories could grant them a positive peace agreement which granted the territories the Polish Nationalists considered theirs (while ignoring the right to self-determination that the Bolsheviks had granted them less than two years earlier). Poland was also happy to make peace and appeasement treaties with Nazi Germany as long as they could also get some territorial gains from Czechoslovak land.
Similarly, Finland in 1917 after gaining independence, was plunged into a civil war between communists and whites, which the latter won and proceeded to imprison communists in Finland who had supported the Reds, around 80k of which some 12k died (funny how nobody talks about that). The USSR had reasons to suspect of a possible alliance between the Finnish government and the Nazis, and proceeded to invade Finland. After the failure of the invasion, as you said, Finland joined the Nazis.
Blaming the USSR for entering a non-aggression treaty with the Nazis, when all western nations had done it, and after 10 years of the USSR trying to make mutual defense agreement with Poland, England and France, is at best ignorant, and at worst purposefully misinforming with an agenda. The USSR had reasons to suspect of Poland and Finland (especially given its history of constant betrayals by all European powers since the October Revolution, with 14 countries sending troops to aid the Tsarist loyalists against the Bolsheviks) and, while outright invasions may not be justified, it could all have been prevented if the western powers had actually agreed to fight nazism. It’s absolutely nuts to blame the USSR and call them “collaborators with Nazis” given the historical background of the two decades before the war, especially the latter.
rather bloodlessly, around 50k deaths overall,
Wut.
50,000 deaths is ‘rather bloodlessly’? And since that’s comparable to oppression within the USSR, it’s not that bad?
while outright invasions may not be justified,
Correct. That, right there, is the most important point you’ve made. They collaborated with Nazis to carve up territories, and were then shocked when the Nazis turned on them. As far as the appeasement pacts made with Nazi Germany by France, England, et al., there’s very, very good reasons why the Vichy gov’t and Quisling are viewed so negatively by everyone that isn’t an apologist.
Cool. In this comparison, none of that matters and the Tweet has a completely valid point.
Unless you suspect Biden will be appointing Trump in his cabinet if he wins?
We’ve been saying from day one, that if Biden doesn’t move to the left and use every tool at his disposal to improve people’s material conditions, Trump’s going to win in 2024.
Biden didn’t just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is the closest thing he could have done to handing Trump the presidency, short of appointing him VP and stepping down.
Biden didn’t just not go left, he tried to outflank the republicans from the right by facilitating genocide, ending covid protections, and passing the most draconian border bill since like the 40s.
This is one of the worst examples of confirmation bias I have ever seen. The Biden Administration’s entire record is out there for you to peruse, and you pick 3 things out of hundreds, possibly thousands, that you think justify your comparison.
Outflanking the rights is a bad decision, because you put their extreme positions into mainstream.
he tried to outflank the republicans from the right
You really expect to be taken seriously saying some idiotic shit like this?
Your hyperbole is over the top. Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices, which is the part of the economy everyone is most concerned with. Last time an Executive Order was used to price fix the food industry, it blew up in Nixon’s face. Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation. The other big concern is housing, which could be addressed with legislation if Democrats had congressional majority.
I completely agree about support of Israel. The only comparison is knowing Trump will be worse for Palestinians. It’s terrible to reconcile, but those are the options.
Abstaining isn’t voting for Trump, it’s refusing to stand in his way.
Trump’s Title 42 and Muslim ban were far worse.
Biden waited 3.5 years to end title 42 and tried to close the border. He has deported more people than Trump.
POTUS has no reasonable control over grocery store prices
He literally does though. But there’s a million other things he could have done when he had control. Instead we just get excuses about how powerless the party controlling both houses and the presidency was because of Manchin or the parliamentarian or the SCOTUS or some rules the dems set for themselves or norms or whatever.
There’s no point in quibbling about whether Biden was less bad than trump, these actions decrease how many people will vote for him. Implementing policy that makes you lose the election is refusing to stand in republican’s way.
Wrong.
Biden ended the Muslim Ban on Jan 21, 2021, the day after he was inaugurated.
He ended Title 42 on May 20, 2022, but the measure was stopped by federal judges. It took until May of 2023 to be completed.
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/05/20/title-42-border-judge-ruling-migrants/
Nobody is talking about the Muslim ban, we’re talking about the more recent attempt to close the mexican border.
But it’s irrelevant, you’re still missing the point.
My point is that Biden’s unpopular actions decrease how many people will vote for him. This is how Biden ensures Trump will come to power.
Did you not read the second half of my comment? He ended Title 42 a year and a half after taking office. Federal judges stopped it for a year.
You wrote three and a half years.
You fabricate information in your comments often. I will always call out misinformation.
Cite your sources and stop with the lies.
Incidentally, you quoted my point about the Muslim ban in your previous comment. So yeah, we were certainly talking about it.
Biden has done plenty of good where Trump did nothing or actively worsened things for the working class, minorities, and the planet. You only select Biden’s worst policies to define his presidency.
@disguy_ovahea
You shouldn’t engage with this guy. Its always a bait and switch/ false premise/ straw man with this guy.
You make a point about an actual bill (the mexican border bill), he makes it about trump and a muslim ban.
Its always in bad faith. Its a condition of blue MAGA.
Read the thread you’re so confident in condemning.
I cited my statements while your friend here repeatedly made false claims.
The Mexican Border bill you’re referring to is an Executive Order, not congressional legislation. Trump’s border Executive Order was the Muslim ban. Neither of which required congressional approval, and therefore are directly equatable.
Maybe you two should get a place together in misinformation land.
Just downvote and move along.
Blue fash is still fash. They aren’t an allie.
Supply chain constraints were industry wide, and when the order expired, prices went up far past standard inflation.
Just a reminder to folks emphasizing that retailers used that as cover for corporate greed, and a lot of it was lies. Various links:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/21/us/politics/grocery-prices-pandemic-ftc.html
Great quote from that Harvard one:
HBS research suggests firms have held off lowering them because it appears consumers got used to paying more
The FTC report that is the basis for the first three links above: https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/news/press-releases/2024/03/ftc-releases-report-grocery-supply-chain-disruptions
And don’t get me started on shrinkflation.
That’s true of the post-pandemic food industry prices for sure. That description was regarding the failure of Nixon’s attempt to price fix with an Executive Order.
Oh sorry I was clearly not paying much attention to what I was reading. Thanks for the gentle correction.
No problem. Thank you for citing sources in your comment. I always appreciate substantiation in this world of misinformation.
Also, Hitler had to declare a state if emergency to gain the absolute power the Supreme Court has just handed to the US president.
Suffice it to say, something lile this is impossible now in Germany. The justices of our highest court, the Bindesverfassungsgericht, can only hold the job for 12 years and can be no older than 68. They are also always equally voted in by two different branches of the government and need a two thirds majority for any decision.
Our democracy isn’t without faults, but this is probably our strongest bulwark against another descent into facsism.
I think Trump will declare a state of emergency as soon as people will riot against his unjust laws. Project 2025 has something about deploying the military against the population to force through deeply unpopular laws.
Imagine having a political opponent you consider equal to Hitler and choosing Joe Biden as the candidate you run against him.
And after the debate you have to wonder who you’re really voting for. I don’t believe he’s really calling the shots. If it’s Obama or something okay, but let’s be honest.
And after the debate you have to wonder who you’re really voting for.
The one who doesn’t pledge to be a dictator.
Next you’ll be telling us about “big Mike”, right, Chuddy?
So weird to think that that all went down in 14 years. 2010 doesn’t seem that long ago.
If they survived that is.
This is not a shitpost.
Yeah, and he went away not because they voted him out but thanks to Soviet weapons.
Who allied up with the Nazis to invade Poland?
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist. Every other country, including Poland, turned their back to us while the Luffwaffle was bombing our citizens.
Soviets were the only ones who truly supported the Spanish democracy against the fascist.
Curious that their backstabbing the Spanish republicans was instrumental in losing the Spanish Civil War for the republican side. Strange kind of support.
What kind of propaganda are you reading in which sending weapons, planes and officers (while all the other countries did NOTHING) is backstabbing.
Spain democracy lost because the allied powers did not care about us the same way the cared about Poland.
You’re on Divide By Zero, you should be fucking familiar with how they fucked the anarchists and the Trots, and that most of their ‘aid’ was purchased, not given.
I’m friends with everyone leftist, even if they hate each other. I can feel comfortable among anarchist, tankies, socdems, new age leftists, reformist, etc. Because I know what our common objective is and I just can’t care about the subtle differences. So I know the anarchist side of the story as well as I know the tankie side.
Being myself an active member of the social movement in my country and actually having watched modern day anarchist working with modern day communists I can say without any doubts that no version is true. Probably both starting arguing about stupid shit, and actual personal problems disguised as political problems, when they should had focused on the real enemy. But anyway I’m thankful for ALL who fought against fascism in Spain, anarchist, communist, republicans… I thank the international brigades, I thank orwell and I thank the soviets and stalinist. They all put their lives on line to stop fascism.
I just despise such an unproductive and harmful division of the left for shit that just does not matter when the true enemy is so big. And sometimes I just see a lust for internal division and eternal losing in such behavior. I don’t know how some leftists have energy left to hate each other after they should had used that energy to fight the true enemy, capitalism and fascism. And I say this for any anarchist who hates tankies and any tankie who hates anarchists. You are not enemies, the enemy is in other direction.
Because I know what our common objective is and I just can’t care about the subtle differences.
Even when those ‘subtle differences’ result in being backstabbed and sold out and the entire cause being lost against a fascist enemy, great. Subtle little differences, like “We need to purge the anarchists and Trots” should be met with “We need complete and total cooperation with the people who want to purge us 😊”
The true meaning of a united front, huh?
For Whom The Bell Tolls by Ernest Hemmingway is set during this period. Just a side note.
Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell would also be a good read for someone looking favorably on the Soviets during the Spanish Civil War.
Wasn’t Orwell a British spy under Churchill and a professional anti-communist agitator?
He was radicalized against the Soviets because they did not support the socialist revolution led by anarchosyndicalists. Instead Stalin supported the liberals because he said it wasn’t time for revolution yet which is BS since Barcelona and big parts of Catalonia did well under anarchists. An anarchist revolution would undermine the “ends justify the means” and “there is no other way to socialism than ours” rhetoric of the bolsheviks.
TLDR He was an anti-Soviet agitator but from the left
He was radicalized against the Soviets because they did not support the socialist revolution
Was this before or after he served as a British intelligence officer in colonial-era Burma?
IBM and Standard Oil
They did some rapes too !
And only stole most of east Germany’s infrastructure.
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Source?
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As did everyone. There’s no study showing that the amount of rapes per soldier by the soviets is higher than that of other nations.
Oh fuuuuck of. There are books based on actual KGB archives that were opened up. Rape of Berlin is well described. There are books about the actual bordelos attached to armies. Western armies. Soviet officers had army wives. Apparently they still do.
There are countless accounts of people prefering Nazi soldiers to soviets. It is THE reason central and easter Europe hates russia.
No data on rapes my ass. But pleeenty of data that soviets single handedly saved the world from Nazis.
Get a grasp.
Wow, so the released KGB archives show the tapes. I wonder what would happen if the Americans or the English did that too!
Hatred of Russians by eastern Europeans is due to 30+ years of anti-communist propaganda. The fact that poles hate the USSR which liberated more than the very Nazis who genocided millions of them, shows this. And it wasn’t the case 40 years ago.
Polls in France after WW2 showed 70%+ of people saying it was the USSR who saved them from Nazism. Nowadays, it’s 70% Americans. That’s what Hollywood and propaganda do.
Yup, propaganda. Sure.
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Oh, boy. Good that soviets took such good care of recording rapes. Unlike bad western nazies. White washing soviet rapes with statistics.
There is also one more reason. soviets had no bordelos for the regular army. Only officers had army wives. It is a known fact. So what would regular grunts would do is rape anything they find.
But probably western propaganda. Because in communism, everyone is equal, and everything belongs to everyone.
Like in current day russia.
I will let you know that you constantly excuse and support ultracapitalist nazi regimes. That makes you a nazi.
Tell me one I’m defending
I also only rape within the average of my demographic
What’s your point? Every rape is to be condemned and prosecuted. What isn’t fair is making up claims about the amount of rapes by a certain demographic and not backing that up with extensive evidence. That exactly what racist people do against immigrants, and that’s what Nazis did against soviets.
Prosecuted ? Yes, war, famously rule-of-law kind of situation…
My point is it should be
Imagine thinking the Russian cowards were the main factor in Hitler’s loss 😂😂😂
I’m voting for Joe!
I’m voting for Not Trump!
I’m voting for Joe and against Trump.
So brave
I’m not sure what point this snark is supposed to be making, but okay.
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That’s just a bit over 3 legislative periods. Hardly enough for anything significant to happen.
Edit: Just two hours passed and Poe’s Law struck again.
How long until Coles Law?
(I am very hungry)
Accompanied by J Law*?
*Either him or her, I don’t mind both.
So just 14 years, a world war, a holocaust, and an aftermath which still leads to new wars until today?
Yeah I think I’ll just be watching a couple of Netflix documentaries on Nov. 5th. Those are crazy, right?
Junkers, dive bombing facts
Something about a Genocide and never again…
Do you mean the Germans should have voted for Hitler harder OP?
They had better turn out in that electron than the US did in 2020, by 20%, and the Nazi party won a decisive victory. This meme doesn’t check out.
Who’s Hitler lol no cap fr fr deadass tho
Jenkins’ brother.
Bro, I can’t believe how that happened. They erased Jenkins from the timeline and somehow history was completely unaffected, because his brother became Fuhrer. Like what the shit
Leroy is my cuzin
Just a casual grasp of historical events and a critical phase of post-war and interwar politics and economies of Europe.
There’s a lesson there!
