Ranked Choice Voting! Find your local RCV group and find ways to help get RCV implemented in your city! It’s something that sees opposition from republicans and democrats so you know it’s good.
I’m a fan of STAR voting myself, but anything is better than the first past the post system we have now.
If Star has traction in your city I say go for it! RCV just seems to have the most momentum.
It would be nice if they did that for the Democratic primaries.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
They did not override that one. Sanders did not even win the non superdelegates. That’s not to say the 2016 Democratic primary was not fucked. Party officials clearly had a preference and were obviously pushing Clinton. Showing the super delegates planned counts before they actually voted made it seem like Sanders had no chance. They need to minimize the number of super delegates so that they can only decide really close primaries.
Eh, fair enough. Undermined, cheated, manipulated, schemed, swindled, deceived, duped, defrauded, etc might have been a better description.
It’d also be nice if they couldn’t just override the primary election results because it’s not a “real election”
That is some Trumpian level of bullshit. They cannot do that because it is against the Charter since the 1950’s. And yes legally the DNC could change their own charter but so can the RNC. Changing party charters to nullify primaries would spell certain doom for that party.
Yes, I’m still a bit bitter about how the DNC treated Bernie in the 2016 election
You and the Kremlin are bitter about how the Dem primary voters treated us Bernie supporters in the 2016 election. Got it.
Sanders was crushed by Clinton in the 2016 primary elections. It was clear pretty much from the start that she was going to win. You take away all the super delegates, she still demolishes him. Did they show some favoritism towards her? Sure. Did they call him some bad names in private emails? Yes. Did she get a few questions before a debate? Yes. Is there any evidence that the election was rigged and stolen from Sanders? No, none at all.
This insistence that the Sanders was somehow robbed of the 2016 nomination (or 2020 nomination at that) is equivalent to Trump’s claim that he was robbed in 2020.
The DNC heavily undermined and consistently sabotaged Bernie’s campaign the point that the DNC chair stepped down and the DNC then apologized “for the inexcusable remarks made over email” that did not reflect the DNC’s “steadfast commitment to neutrality during the nominating process.” (From the wikipedia link below).
From the 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak: In the emails, DNC staffers derided the Sanders campaign. The Washington Post reported: “Many of the most damaging emails suggest the committee was actively trying to undermine Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign.”
Bernie was absolutely robbed of a fair primary election.
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_Democratic_National_Committee_email_leak
From the 2016 Democratic National Committee email leak:
From the Kremlin hacking operation that passed both true and false info to Assange who said in a memo that they wanted Treason Trump to win which was documented in the Mueller report.
Why did Putin NOT leak RNC memos? Because he has been blackmailing the Republican Party ever since.
The DNC heavily undermined and consistently sabotaged Bernie’s campaign the point that the DNC chair stepped down and the DNC then apologized “for the inexcusable remarks made over email” that did not reflect the DNC’s “steadfast commitment to neutrality during the nominating process.”
We all know and agree that they said bad things about him, but do you really think making “inexcusable remarks” in private actually supports the claim that he was “heavily undermined and consistently sabotaged”?
Bernie was absolutely robbed of a fair primary election.
The only “concrete” thing you cite is that “they said nasty things about him in private.” No actual evidence of them doing anything to undermine his chances. The worst concrete thing that came out is that Clinton got some debate questions early, but do we really think that is going to lead to a 12 point swing? No way.
Convenient you skip over the undermine his campaign portion of my previous comment. But the fact that the Chair of the DNC resigned over it shows it was more than just saying “nasty things about him in private”.
It should also be noted that their actions “caused significant harm to the Clinton campaign, and have been cited as a potential contributing factor to her loss in the general election”. It is not as inconsequential as you present it.
Convenient you skip over the undermine
Because it offered nothing concrete. It just says the emails “suggest” this, but doesn’t actually offer up anything of substance as to how it was done.
But the fact that the Chair of the DNC resigned over it shows it was more than just saying “nasty things about him in private”.
And yet, all you can point to is them saying nasty things in private.
It should also be noted that their actions “caused significant harm to the Clinton campaign, and have been cited as a potential contributing factor to her loss in the general election”. It is not as inconsequential as you present it.
I’m challenging the belief that Sanders had some chance in the 2016 primary against Clinton, and that there is good reason to believe it was stolen from him. I understand that the leaked emails were massively consequential.
America is not a progressive country and if you are progressive you will be eternally disappointed with it.
Read more history if you disagree.
Hey look, more liberals blatantly lying about how shit and corrupt their party is!
And you’ve provided. . .oh look! Nothing!
Providing nothing is better than providing blatant lies :3
And to prove these lies you’ve provided …oh look! Nothing!
Providing nothing is better than providing blatant lies :3
A blatant lie was all you provided.
I was curious about this. Since political parties run their own primaries, then they can decide to use whatever voting system they want. I suspect that RCV primaries would produce a candidate that is more competitive in the general election (though I don’t know enough about electoral math or demographics to be sure). I’m certain that RCV has a tendency to discourage scorched earth campaign tactics, so party candidates would be less prone to trying to destroy one another.
My city does ranked choice voting, and it’s great! I would love to see it at the state level.
That’s awesome! What city? What was the process for getting it on the ballot and what helped getting it passed?
San Francisco has had ranked choice voting since 2004. IIRC they called it “instant run-off voting” and it would save from having a run off election for the mayor and other elected officials.
Yup. Y’all had it for a while.
I think ranked choice voting would give us RFK as president
Edit: that was assuming we had these same candidates only as ranked choice obviously we would have more candidates
Brain Worm '24
Honestly my knowledge of ranked choice voting is that it works better for reps other than the president, and that our basically one guy wins it all form for presidential elections feels like ranked choice would work less. I’m willing to be wrong. I’m not sure if I actually like systems where the majority party picks the head of state, but it does feel like ra ked choice voting makes it matter more there.
You gotta consider how many viable candidates aren’t throwing the hat in the ring because there is no chance for them to get even close thanks to the current system, plus they’d be labeled as spoilers.
It’s stunning that each party managed to find a candidate that could lose against the other.
Its not that stunning. In fact, its more common than you’d guess.
Only Ford could lose to Carter. Only Dukakis could lose to Bush. Only Hillary could lose to Trump. Hindsight 20/20. Foresight blind as a fucking bat.
Ford did himself in. Apparently in 1976, American’s didn’t like the fact that the President could commit crimes while in office and get off with a pardon from his former VP. Crimes he was never charged with or convicted of.
Today, a scandal is like a badge of “honor” and being a convicted criminal and morally bankrupt sleezeball is basically a requirement for the Presidency. At least it is if you’re a Republican.
But bats aren’t blind
If the election was today, Biden would lose. Imagine if Trump wasn’t the nominee for November, the GOP would win the presidency.
Edit: it’s just reality according to the current polling.
according to the current polling
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: the polls are likely skewed towards the GOP, and it’s thought that this is because of random text/calls, which boomers are more likely to respond to.
B-B-Biden bad! You really got to get it in huh.
Is a non-genocidal candidate capable of beating the criminal traitor Trump too much to ask for?
If he would lose the election today, YES, Biden is bad. Where’s the disconnect?
There it is again.
The disconnect that exists is that people don’t see the good things he does. You know, green energy, chips act, unions, drug price controls, student debt relief, telling them to look at marijuana rescheduling, infrastructure building. It just goes on and on. You’re doing mental gymnastics to say B-B-Biden bad! Ciao.
r2o admitted that he only posts the negative stuff. It’s why he got banned from politics.
people don’t see the good things he does
This is the point being made. If the election were tomorrow, Biden would lose because Trump is beating Biden in key swing states.
That could be a point, but the person I was responding to is on the war path of trying to make/change the point of “B B BIden bad”.
I never said Biden is bad. He’s doing the bare minimum. Expect more from our politicians.
Lol you all caps shouted “YES” agreeing to what I said and literally said “Biden is bad”.
Bare minimum huh? Back to your mental gymnastics. Biden’s doing fucking great.
You want more? He doesn’t even have control of the house of representatives. If you want more give him and Dems consistent and resounding victories.
I think this is where I inform you that Dems have had control of all three (house, Senate, and presidency) for a whooping 4 years of the last 24 years. If you include Bill Clinton, then it’s 6 of the last 32 years. You want more progress? Give Dems consistent and resounding victories. Not a measly half term every second president.
Good luck.
Lol you all caps shouted “YES” agreeing to what I said and literally said “Biden is bad”.
My apologies, I post anything critical of Biden and the centrist rage comes out of the woodwork to defend him. I got my comments mixed up.
What should Biden do differently to run away with the change of winning re-election?
I would say that the bare minimum would actually include not actively supporting a genocide, but maybe I’m just out of touch.
Some genocide is actually fine. /s
Expanding the oil industry and shutting down strikes then giving them a pittance isn’t good. Liberals keep lying ig, maybe if you lie hard enough biden will stop being a piece of shit
/s nothing and no one will stop him from being a piece of shit, telling blatant lies isn’t gonna get people to like him
Whether we like it or not, gas prices play an outsized role. Have to do that while we get some rail infrastructure up, gas milage up, EVs up and the green energy to go with that. And guess who wants to kill all that?
On unions: https://youtu.be/EM6jMtG_MB8
And way to ignore all the other points.
If you think polling relates to reality then look into polling and how it doesn’t.
“Polls have “called” elections correctly 78 percent of the time” according to that article. Just because they are more accurate than in another time frame does not mean they are accurate overall. This is an incredibly poor rate in the larger picture. Independent groups are notoriously hard to poll and they are the ones that decide elections. If it’s a landslide then of course the poll will be correct. Completely unreliable in close elections. However they make excellent time filters for news networks.
“Polls have “called” elections correctly 78 percent of the time” according to that article. Just
Maybe you should just read their argument as to why this is a garbage metric. Especially if you are arguing they don’t even “relate to reality.”
If always predicting who will win is the requirement for polls, the problem isn’t the polling itself, but your understanding of what a poll means and how statistics work.
Polls only predict well in places where you don’t need polls… hence their 78% success rate. What is their rate in closer elections? Likely right at 50%…useless.
The article talks about this and why it’s a bad metric. If you’re going to ignore their descriptive argument, you’ll just ignore my less than descriptive argument here.
But rest assured that at least part of the problem here is that you don’t understand statistics and probability.
This is a thread where someone made the statement “Trump would win if the election was today.” based on polls. You said yourself, that’s not what polls are for. Take it up with the person who is misusing the poll to make definitive statements like that rather than the person saying you can’t trust the polls for that.
Both that poster and this one can be wrong.
The difference is that the other poster is just conflating will with favored and it’s kind of pedantic to argue with that.
This poster is claiming that they are no relationship with reality, which is just blatantly wrong.
I think Trump retiring and the Republicans replacing him with a charismatic, young, intelligent christofascist would be devastating for the Democrats (and humanity) right now and I don’t know why they don’t do it.
For that matter I don’t see why Democrats don’t replace Biden with a charismatic, young, intelligent social democrat which would be equally devastating for republicans. So who knows with these people.
Charismatic + Young + Intelligent + Christofascist…
0 results found.
I think Republicans might need to remove one search criterion to make that work.
As for Dems… that might just be AOC? Lol
You’re right. DeSantis would’ve been catastrophic if he wasn’t such a little weirdo with no charisma.
I would love to vote for AOC. She will be old enough to run next year, but it will be four years before the next election.
She checks all the boxes unless you’re the type to believe Republican spin (she was a bartender once but has more education than most GoP house members). I’m unfortunately sure she’ll get the same DNC treatment as Sanders, though :/
I don’t think the DNC will be able to stop her. They can only do so much. I was a huge Bernie fan, volunteered at rallies and everything, but even I can acknowledge that the support was not quite strong enough to overcome the establishment headwind. He came close twice, but I think there were a number of people who wrote him off over his age and whatnot.
I think AOC could tip the scales, she’s young and smart and has real conviction. She has all the Bernie benefits with none of the baggage.
Honestly I think aoc is the only I could be excited to vote for right now.
That spin is hilarious when you consider the source, they voted for a reality TV personality and didn’t bar an eye when he padded his cabinet with family members and inept grifters.
Not an American, but AOC is who I hope the Dems go with next time. She’s the only thing I envy about your political situation atm.
I mean there’s definitely intelligent enough people who just want to use people
Of course! But I don’t think there’s any public figure Republicans who fit the bill.
You don’t think there’s people out there to chirp the republican agenda for their own personal gain? People are definitely smart enough to say things they don’t believe in to manipulate others
Who’s both charismatic, young, and intelligent? Don’t get me wrong, I’m quite aware people lie to manipulate others (that’s like all religions) but I don’t think there’s someone in the GOP, or are GOP aligned celebs, who fit the description. Like… who? The best they ran celeb-wise Dr. Oz and he’s am uncharismatic weasel.
Maybe two of the three, but even that’s a stretch (DeSantis for instance might be two of three but I have doubts he’s particularly intelligent; maybe by GOP standards). I guess someone could emerge but whoever they are, they ain’t on my radar.
I’d love to vote for AOC too
I don’t think you’ll be happy with the one Republicans choose to get rid of.
I think one of the big things is the MAGA voters vote for Trump and ONLY Trump. They don’t turn out for elections without him in it. The Republicans know that without the MAGAs, they’re not gonna win the presidential election.
Also this is purely theory but I wouldn’t be surprised if Russia gives Trump information he can blackmail Republicans with. I’m sure Russian honeypots have dug up a lot of stuff over the years.
They don’t do it because it doesn’t serve them personally. As we have seen time and time again, politicians are mostly griftfers that will flip on a dime and change their moral compass just so that they can benefit from the situation.
By personally do you mean financially? Because I think an argument for personal benefit could be made for blowing the opposition out of the water.
By personally, I mean money, power, favors.
Any influence they can use for themselves.
There’s a possibility that this would provoke demobilization among Trump voters.
That’s a good thing. Fuck cars.🚗
These old stodgy dudes have two things going for them that young guys don’t (yet) have - a lifetime of building a support network of donors and mastery at playing “the game”.
They should retire at 60 and pass along their donors and skills to a few proteges, but recently they cling until the very last breath.
Don’t give them any ideas, please.
Yeah I figured it could be seen as encouraging christofascism but I just yearn for young politicians.
Young = under mandatory retirement age
I’d accept under average age of death at this point.
Well, in any developed nation in the world except the US, they would be.
Because the cult is about the man, not the idea. Ron DeSantis tried to be just that (not saying he holds any of those qualities that you mentioned, just that he tried) and failed because no one cares about what Trump actually stands for (when you listen to Trump supporters talk about him, you’d think they would actually vote for democrats considering the issues they bring up—barring the worst of the worst racist, homophobic deranged individuals of course). At the end of the day, they just care about their god-lord little-hand long-tie orange-faced crybaby and the made-up grievances he’s had to endure and how that somehow translates to their own impending persecution.
The reason the Democratic Party hasn’t does that is they hold the monopoly on milquetoast impotence in governing, as their corporate overlords have decreed.
Charismatic, intelligent people don’t need fascism nearly as much as dumbfucks do but even for the few who get sucked in anyway, there’s easier and more self-serving ways to express it than a grueling, always-on position in the Republican party.
But ultimately the answer to both “why don’t they run someone actually good” questions is “because it would be a threat to neoliberals and their record profits”.
Neolibs can’t countenance that their darling politicians are actually right of Nixon, let alone admit it.
It would still be better then trump but i would like to see a party that doesn’t suck since we have a two party system with 0 good options which is why im voting for biden despite hating him (rather incompetent then malicious)
They don’t have anyone nearly as good as him. People give Trump a lot of shit, deservedly so, but he’s one hell of a politician. Nobody can galvanize their base like he does.
Yeah. Agree 100%. His greatest political victory was to convince people that a born wealthy real estate clown is an “outsider” to politics that can relate to the common folk. A true outsider would be an engineer, doctor, scientist, etc. Someone that doesn’t have the ability to increase their wealth by millions with minor tweaks in the law.
Ever notice that corpo speak and political speak are exactly the same. Like how they can both run circles around any question without ever answering it? Yeah.
The worst part is that he’s only a “good politician” because the system is so horribly broken.
Maga is a cult of personality. The Republicans’ fear is they won’t turn out for anyone but Trump.
As for the Democrats, the line they always give is that social democrats can’t win elections, but honestly, I think the party elite is afraid of what would happen if they did.
.
This is the current state of US politics - it’s more about who you’re against than who you’re for, and I firmly believe this is the reason why no scandals seem to matter anymore.
On the conservative side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Biden and the Democrats are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an ® next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Trump of all people became the party leader.
I’m against all these assholes taking bribes from whoever they can and above all else ignoring the needs of their constituents. Recall them all!
On the progressive side, they get a steady stream of content telling them how horrible Trump and the Republicans are, so anyone with a heartbeat and an D next to their name is fine. It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
You’ve clearly never asked a progressive how they feel about the Democrat party.
the Democrat party.
This is how an archconservative refers to the Democratic Party
Its “Democratic Party”.
We dont call the opponents “Republic Party”
Republicans started saying this to disassociate the party from the word “democracy”
And also because it ends with “rat” which has negative connotations
Actions speak louder than words. Who do these progressives keep voting for?
The only non-fascists who have a chance at winning. Progressives didn’t pick our first past the post election formula.
My comment and this thread has nothing to do with rightly or wrongly voting for anyone. Nor does it have anything to do with how anyone should justify their vote.
I only reinforced the claim that anyone with a “D” next to their name is “fine enough” for progressives to vote for. A claim that you initially disagreed with, but are now proving to be true.
I am unsure as to why a progressive would ever vote Republican. Progressives cannot politically exist on their own in this two-party system. They have to adopt one party or the other. Since the Republican party is completely and absolutely opposed to anything a progressive would believe in, they adopted the one party that has a minor shot at enacting policies they adhere to. There is no doubt they would likely vote D all the way down the ballot in every election. It’s the only opportunity at policy progression they have. It has been this way for a while so this claim isn’t some new prediction or revelation.
If Biden was full of bravado around breaking the government so we wouldn’t have more elections like Trump I wouldn’t vote for him either. It’s not about the D or the R. It’s about the choice that most likely to lead to a peaceful transfer of power in the next election. There are no good options but I choose the one that’s going to allow future, hopefully better, choices.
I only reinforced the claim that anyone with a “D” next to their name is “fine enough” for progressives to vote for.
Maybe listen to Bernie when he said that any Dem is “200x” better than any Republican candidate for president. I have never known Bernie to be wrong about anything.
One of the biggest factors that makes Republicans fascish is the way they use any power they’re given to entrench their positions, something democrats also do a little, but much less than Republicans. Voting for a party you’re less than happy with to keep the much worse party from permanent power is a much more practical and thought-out position than “blue no matter who” would have you believe. It’s disingenuous to liken that to the largely false fear-mongering the right wing media bubble does to convince their voters that the conservative Democrat Joe Biden wants to turn America communist.
Exactly. I was just using the conservative side as my example because the post topic was already covering the progressive side.
It’s probably how Biden of all people became the party leader.
That and getting the most primary votes.
“People voting for watching paint dry instead of poking sticks in their eyes appear to be mostly motivated by avoiding sticks…in their eyes.”
It’s more like getting slowly poked in the eye or quickly poked in the eye.
I have never whole heartedly supported the Democratic candidate (because I’m far more left than any of them have ever been), but I’ve always voted for them, because they’re far better than the other option. This time they’re just so far better than the other option, not because they are any better, but because the other option is so astoundingly worse. So, I guess, welcome to the club.
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime. Again, that’s not saying much, but hey, it’s better than nothing. He’s just killing himself by supporting Israel.
This is sanest take I’ve seen on the matter. Good to see nuance is not dead!
But I will say, Biden has been more progressive than any other candidate in my lifetime.
I agree and I can remember every president since Nixon. Not one single president in the past 50 years has been better than Biden.
I supported them wholeheartedly for like a day when I moved from libertarianish something in my teens and early twenties to slightly progressive. I feel exactly the same.
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In other news, water is wet.
I mean no shit.
Not-trump party go brrr.
Biden has not been as bad as I expected him to be, but he is out of touch with the average American. Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65. But I’ll take him over the convicted felon.
I’ll take him over any republican. He’s been fine, but we could do better. We could also do much worse.
I’d take a leftist of any age over a 35 year old centrist.
Mood.
Politicians need mandatory retirements. We need someone under the age of 65.
Ah yes, ageism.
There’s nobody over 65 who is a good political leader. Nobody under 65 is a bad political leader. Everyone immediately turns into a useless chump on their 65th birthday. They should all be puréed into a drink to sustain the rest of us.
Sounds like someone just turned 65. Into the Soylent tanks you go!
it’s not ageism to expect care for the future from people who are going to expect to see it. we’ve already seen that boomers could care less what happens after they’re gone, as long as they absolutely ruin whatever they can in the mean time.
That seems a bit excessive.
They should all be puréed into a drink to sustain the rest of us.
That’s just wasteful, you need to scrap them first so you can extract the valuable metals from their medical implants. Then you butcher them for any good meat. Then you puree the rest (apart from the brain due to prions) to feed to children.
Yeah no kidding. Why else would anybody vote for the dude?
I would absolutely vote for Biden over any Republican. And most Dems, with the notable exception of Sanders.
I would vote for AOC over Biden in a heartbeat.
He’s actually been surprisingly effective at governing. He’s low key been the best president we’ve had in decades.
Good thing they conducted a poll to figure this out
The only reason I’m voting for him is that he’s not trump.
I’m not voting for Biden, I’m voting against trump
Just like I didn’t vote Biden in 2020, I voted bye Don.
Vote Democrat because they don’t have a plan to spend the entire system and fuck everything up much more than it already is. It’s not just trump that is an insane asshole on that side.
That’s what democracy is like pretty much everywhere.
Anyone who who is capable of getting themselves made president should on no account be allowed to do the job.
ETA: Anyone downvoting this is not a hoopy frood
Any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the Galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through and still know where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
This must be some in-depth research to arrive at this conclusion
