“We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view and create a giant centralized echo chamber”!
Why the fuck does every .world user suddenly want Lemmy to be Reddit?
Personally I would like to be able to talk to people with different views, in a civil manner. But Lemmy.ml doesn’t seem to want that. If you post something that they don’t like (even if it’s a very moderate view and is expressed in a completely civil way) then they ban you. They seem to really hate moderate people.
Most of the users saying this went around screaming the word Tankie all over the place on .ml.
I got instance banned for saying federal democratic republics are a form of democracy.
Edit: I also don’t care. I never expected M-Ls to do anything besides M-L things and they don’t owe me anything.
Modlogs are public, everyone can see why you were banned.
Also no ml would disagree with that, here’s Lenin explaining the difference between a capitalist democracy and a workers democracy.
Everyone can see why the mod said they were banned. If you believe the mod logs, I was banned from 196 for “supporting genocide”
If you believe in modlogs, then drag was banned from [email protected] for “trolling”, which is what a trans person explaining their pronouns is.
To be fair, to me (a 30-something gay dude from EU) what you posted here in the screenshot looks like taking a piss and trolling.
Wait, you’re DroneRights?
Probably shouldn’t support genocide then ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I would love for you to find the comment where I did that
Which is why you can see them do it exactly as stated. “American propaganda” lol.
Have fun hanging around people who ban people for disagreeing with the party line of a dead ideology that had its corpse cannibalized by fascists. That will surely lead to the second revolution.
Can you point at me where it says you were banned for “American propaganda”? I tried ctrl+f “propaganda” to see what you were saying that got you banned and nothing came up.
Nobody is going to disagree that a bourgeois democracy is a democracy, only that bourgeois democracies represent the people instead of bourgeoisie.
That’d be the part where they hid the actual comments and mod responses on all the .ml communities. Interesting that it rewrites the history when they decide to undo it, I hadn’t actually noticed it expired.
So weird and uncharacteristic of M-Ls to do something shitty and then delete the records and then lie about the cause because it makes them look bad…
61·18 days agoModerate in what context? Moderate about Jews in 1938 Germany? Jews at some point in time before that? Black people in 1800s Amerikkka. Black people in today’s amerikkka?
Being banned means less of a problem for you - got a reason to ignore them and let them echo chamber however they want.
every accusation is a confession.
I’ve never banned anybody for saying their view, and I don’t think I’d support someone being banned for saying their view, as long as they’re being respectful, and as long as they’re not advocating anything criminal.
We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view
I will try to formulate this as well as I can:
“One should not give a platform to instances which don’t give a platform to others.”
Examples (based on hexbear):
-
in some communities you get banned for voting the wrong way --> other instances don’t practise banning for votes
-
in some communities you get banned for being “reactionary” (that is, factual - Wikipedia would get banned just as quick) --> other instances only ban bigots, not people who politely disagree with locals
-
in some communities, there is no obvious recourse to get a ban reviewed and reversed --> on other instances, there is a metacommunity about management or instructions about how to challenge a ban
The result: certain instances are granted a platform by others, but aren’t granting a platform to “foreigners” in return. And management habits in some places are straight from North Korea.
Defederating from an echo chamber doesn’t make your instance an echo chamber, unless you follow up by adopting the policies of the echo chamber you defederated from.
-
“Different world views” isn’t a problem, the problem is users espousing repugnent “world views” and being assholes.
Pretending like we have to put up with other users’ repulsive, insane “ideas” and bullying behavior in our spaces is laughable. Bigots, fascists, and actual tankies can fuck off.
You probably have some views that are repugnent to me, and vice versa. That’s freedom of speech and political pluralism.
being assholes.
This though, I agree just ban that user.
One of the instances believes Hamas are freedom fighters and the state of Israel has no right to exist.
The other believes the inverse.
Who is the fascist with repugnant world views?
Hamas and the Netanyahu regime are bloodthirsty authoritarian regimes who both qualify as terrorists, given their recent exploits.
Dodged the question about Israels right to exist. Supports the Fascist state and condemned the freedom fighter.
There is your answer folks.
Isreal does not have a right to exist, Israelis do, but Isreal doesn’t. It only exists because the land it was on was forcibly taken from Palestinians. Edit: spelling
But Palestinians do not have the right to fight back against their occupiers, They should die quietly while everyone with the moral high-ground says what Israel doing is bad and proceeds to do nothing about it.
Israel, as an idea to act as a haven after the 2nd world war for European Jewry, is dumb to begin with for a plethora of reasons at the time.
That said there’re plenty of states through history that begin under dubious pretenses. Their citizenry doesn’t deserve wanton violence nor does its necessarily deserve wholesale dissolution.
Israel does have a right to exist. The Israelis don’t have a right to take land forcibly from people.
I agree no state has a right to exist
honestly y’all should go ahead and block every instance; we’d all be better off without you fascist bootlicking .world users
in what universe is a settler state that’s been brutalizing and ethnic cleansing the people from whom they stole their land the “freedom fighter”
Israel, as an idea to act as a haven after the 2nd world war for European Jewry, is dumb to begin with for a plethora of reasons at the time.
That said there’re plenty of states through history that begin under dubious pretenses. Their citizenry doesn’t deserve wanton violence nor does its necessarily deserve wholesale dissolution.
Israel does have a right to exist. The Israelis don’t have a right to take land forcibly from people and murder women and children.
Israel does have a right to exist. The Israelis don’t have a right to take land forcibly from people and murder women and children.
But that is how Israel exists. How can it not have the right to do that and then have the right exist simultaneously?
How can it not have the right to do that
Forcibly take land and murder civilians?
and then have the right exist simultaneously?
One can have a country and be fair and magnanimous with the people who were on the land before.
If calling Israel a terror state means supporting it, then you tankies must be the DNC!
the latter. go back to Reddit lmao
States don’t have rights, humans have rights, and the existence of Israel as an apartheid settler colonial project is incompatible with the human rights of the groups they are oppressing.
That’s true for essentially every state to some degree or another
I love it when obvious trolls are obvious, Once I’ve blocked enough of them whomever is left are people I can actually have a conversation with.
Do not answer the difficult question lest the mask starts slipping.
Eh… Lemmy is already a lot like reddit in the very beginning, just more extreme.
I think a big problem with Lemmy is that even the large instances only have a few terminally online posters, so a lot of the communities get warped by those posters biases.
Right now Hexbear is having a little internal conflict between the mods and some posters over the harassment of lgbtq and POC. The mods started out handing out temporary bans to offenders and then people started freaking out because no one was posting shit.
Because Lemmy is fucking communist.
Please go back to reddit.
But they’re not wrong
You go back to lemmy. Oh wait
As long as it’s not only lemmy.world communities you start growing. Centralization won’t lead to good outcomes anywhere.
Absolutely! Grow a community on any instance that doesn’t allow the kind of users that lemmy.ml does I say.
I think we gave them too much power by making their communities as big as we did
I’m glad there is enough critical mass to move past those fucking hatemongers. “Pure free speech and anarchy!” If you say exactly what we want you to, also don’t accidentally offend us with normal fucking words
don’t accidentally offend us with normal fucking words
What were the normal words that people found so offensive?
They’re not anarchists tho. Don’t associate anarchism with .ml bullshit
Of course, because there is no true anarchist.
But they don’t even pretend to be anarchists, they’re Marxist-Leninists, hence the ml
If “they dont even pretend to be anarchists”, then why would the comment
They’re not anarchists tho. Don’t associate anarchism with .ml bullshit
be necessary in the first place?
If you look at the comment above that one, you might be able to figure it out
What do the call a fallacy where you find an imaginary fallacy in someone else’s argument to sound smarter?
Is it a fallacy? I frequently run into self-styled anarchists who describe other self-styled anarchists as “not real anarchists”.
.ml people don’t even describe themselves as anarchists, from what I’ve seen. And those that do, often hide behind that label in bad faith
“Free speech!”
Ok tankie.
“Not like that!”
Did you know that Norway, Sweden, and Denmark all have laws against hate speech, harassment, and discriminatory expressions targeting protected groups. For instance, Norwegian law prohibits public statements that threaten or insult someone, or promote hatred based on factors like ethnicity, religion, or sexual orientation. At the same time they consistently top indices like the Reporters Without Borders’ World Press Freedom index. I’m not saying that your comment is threatening or anything, but it doesn’t seem very important to me to protect the right of someone to use a crude derogatory like “tankie” (a word with parallels to terms like “pinko” and “judeo Bolshevik”).
Even the US has protected classes even if the list is woefully short.
I doubt tankies are a protected class in nordic states since they are like nazis and other groups that fetishize violent oppression. Tankie doesn’t parallel with pinko becsuse one is about violent oppression and the other is about the left side of the political spectrum.
In reality, the pervasiveness of derogatories like that limit free speech. Of course, this goes the same for calling everyone one disagrees with a lib or fascist as well.
Permitting hate speech limits free speech by making the space unsafe for marginalized voices.
What are you saying that causes people to call you a liberal or a fascist?
Thank you, that’s true but doesn’t catch the nuance of my argument. It doesn’t need to be hate speech to have a chilling effect on public debate. Name-calling instead of actual political discourse, for instance.
I’ve been called many things but liberal or fascist are seldom among them. I do observe comrades who use those terms very lightly and in uncomeradely fashion though.
Or more subtly:
I can’t even say life’s a bitch over there without being filtered because of misogyny which I guess? But that’s not my intent and I don’t think the majority read it with that connotation. What if I just want to quote a Nas classic?
It gets dumber: last I checked their word filter doesn’t pay any regard to a comment’s set language so even If I set my comment to French “retard” will be filtered on ml communities and to their users regardless of where I comment.
Je suis en retard
Becomes
Je suis en removedEdit: actually, let’s see if this has been fixed, test French comment in reply to this:
Edit2: lmao
I’ve tried to talk about fire retardants there once… It gets cut too.
Je suis en retard
oh no I’m not allowed to use a slur even though I’m using it in a common phrase that originates as the slur being used as a slur
I’m supposed to get away with doing things
Dudes takes are so bad even he doesn’t want to upvote them lol:
Removed by mod
Removed by mod
Did you only read half of my comment?
What about the French example?
You said two stupid things but only one of them was fun to make a joke out of.
Your french shit is equally stupid. “But it’s not a slur in a language we aren’t speaking right now so I should get to say it!!!”
How about you just stop having a piss fit you spoiled little fuck? Not once in your ‘analysis’ are you bothering to do the literally only valuable piece of thought work: actually measuring the cost/benefit of having a strong deterrence to bigotry vs “I can think of a word that has a slur as part of it but can still be easily understood by people reading it through context clues”
When a piece of shit only weighs the cost of doing things to protect vulnerable minorities and not the benefit to those people, it’s pretty fucking easy to suss out their beliefs on the issue in general.
I was in an argument with some .ml tankie yesterday, and they had the gall to say that “free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated everywhere,” in response to a comment saying that the CCP censors speech. They didn’t like my assertion that that statement also applies to Nineteen Eighty-Four’s Ingsoc party. It’s technically true, that free speech that doesn’t threaten the government is tolerated in Oceania. It’s just that the government considers any dissent threatening.
My last straw was when I made a meme on their meme instance that had no Asians, anyone related to Asia, or racism in it. And they removed the post with 500+ up votes and a healthy discussion, because my title was “Rice.”
They literally told me rice, the word by itself, is racist. I just chose a random word for the title to fill the blank.
You didn’t choose a random word. It’s obvious why you chose that specific word in reference to gaming hardware. And we know the racist roots of the term.
Yeah, we’d hate to make a good alternative when everyone can just use Bluesky and Meta.
The hate for .world simply because of size doesn’t make sense to me. It’s fine to make new (unique) communities elsewhere, but shunning the biggest successful communities on .world to try to grow empty communities on other instances is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
If you’re constantly shunning the biggest instance simply for being big, you’ll end up killing Lemmy.
There’s more than just being big, those things may not matter to you, or even the majority, but I’ve heard enough gripes repeated to know some people are bothered.
The flip flopping on policies without clear transparency bothered some people but tbh I forgave that as growing pains of being in charge of a new popular platform.
The one mentioned more often is how they’re one of the main ones to federate with Meta’s Threads. Integration isn’t really there right now anyway but every other major Lemmy instance has preemptively blocked them already:
sourceI can respect the Threads thing. That’s a valid reason other than “we need to be even smaller”.
It’s not that we need to be smaller, but we benefit if we all grow similarly, or at least the community distribution does.
I don’t think most of the data in the network should be hosted by a single legal entity, that’s just unhealthy even if the protocol is open. It’s also my main complaint about bluesky- technically open protocol, de facto centralization.
You can see instances that haven’t been defederated. Why is it important for everyone to be on the same one? Everyone has the ability to get the same feed on All.
I don’t think the meme makes sense. The ml users don’t seem to care how much other content is out there. They still participate as much as they’d like.
Listen. Just fuckin listen to me. The moment I joined lemmy every enthusiast was singing praise to the fediverse and how it’s easy to maintain the freedom of speach and yada yada yada. What it turned out to be is just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that while lemmy still fucking struggles to even become a mere shadow of reddit. I fucking hate reddit, I think spez should be covered in fire ants, but by god, looking at how insufferable most vocal lemmy users are, I may get back to reddit, probably as many other lemmy users already did.
If it helps, most of this inter-instance drama comes from a surprisingly small group of people. I’ve blocked most of them (looks like I missed the OP here) and it’s much quieter now. Looking at my block list, they’re mostly from .world, but that could be due to the large population.
It is easy to maintain freedom of speech on Lemmy. The idea that your instance can defederate from instances like Lemmy.ml, but everyone on Lemmy.ml can continue to post on their own server, and federate with any other given server by default is the entire point of federation and proof of concept that the fediverse is great for free speech. You’re under the impression that all Lemmy servers are supposed to be part of one big whole, but that’s not what the fediverse is for.
You have to understand that “free speech” is a negative freedom and it doesn’t mean everyone has to listen to you. It just means nobody can force you not to speak.
I wonder how long until .world defederates from .world.
inshallah
.world is just where right-wingers go to pretend they’re not right-wingers.
If you’re unhappy why stay? Personally I’m happy with the Lemmyverse as it stands now — certainly happier than in the corporate lowest-common-denominator that is now Reddit.
same logic as “if u hate america then leave”.
some people want to do their part to make the site (or country) better. they cant do that by giving up and going back to reddit. lemmy is great…but it could be better.
just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that
Sounds like you picked the wrong instance. The one I use doesn’t defederate, from anyone. So when some drama about "should we defederate from some server because they are a big corp/because they are right wing/because they are tankies/because they allow loli/whatever, I basically get to watch and laugh knowing it’s not going to effect me.
🤨
The whole point of federation seems to be the ability to have villain instances that we all fight about. PVP social media
I’m mainly on Lemmy becuase it’s open source and like the idea and I want it to flourish and therefore every defederation makes me sad :(
yep… with everything going on in life, globally and personally, I really can’t think of anything i give fewer fucks about than lemmy in-fighting
grow the fuck up
Can’t be any worse than the linux rabbit holes on here over just mention of anything electronic. I’m not even arguing it’s like someone obsessed with garden tools and that’s all they can talk about.
To them: Just give it a rest for a second please and talk about literally anything else going on in your life maybe even stick to the topic once in a while.
It’s sad when fanboys make AI generated output seem more interesting and well adjusted.
lemmy.ml users reaction:
Another day of .world reddit migrants thinking de-federating or boycotting .ml will change literally anything.
It will. It will change which instance they shriek “tankie!” at.
It is funny being one of the few somewhat rightwing people on here and getting called a tankie
You folks are blowing this way out of proportion.
Daily lemmy.world whingefest
Why would you want to create an echo chamber? I genuinely don’t get it, it’s the internet, if you encounter an opinion you disagree with, literally just close the tab and it’s gone
I feel like I’m missing something important here as a simple fediverse user. I don’t really care about the politics, I just made an account during the first large Reddit exodus and choose an instance I thought would persist. I also made a second account on kbin.social, but it looks pretty dead as a project.
I never noticed anything described in this thread, but I’m subbed to many communities across the fediverse…
As a lemmy.ml account holder… I’m a bit out of the loop. I’m not tied to any single instance and can move to a new one (any recommendations?), but what does ml do that’s bad? Honest question, promise, I don’t follow this stuff very much
The beauty of the fediverse is that you can make it how you want. You can self select into a instance that best reflects your individual values. You can block what you want. You can see publicly what the instance and moderators are doing.
Why would anyone be mad about that?
Free speechers on .world can’t handle interacting with any dissenting opinions to the left of the Bush Administration.
no, I can’t handle being banned for pointing out that the uigurs exist and are being genocided by a certain dictatorship rn
Posting this to lemmy.world, lol
- posted on *.world
