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Anyone who has been surfing the web for a while is probably used to clicking through a CAPTCHA grid of street images, identifying everyday objects to prove that they’re a human and not an automated bot. Now, though, new research claims that locally run bots using specially trained image-recognition models can match human-level performance in this style of CAPTCHA, achieving a 100 percent success rate despite being decidedly not human.
ETH Zurich PhD student Andreas Plesner and his colleagues’ new research, available as a pre-print paper, focuses on Google’s ReCAPTCHA v2, which challenges users to identify which street images in a grid contain items like bicycles, crosswalks, mountains, stairs, or traffic lights. Google began phasing that system out years ago in favor of an “invisible” reCAPTCHA v3 that analyzes user interactions rather than offering an explicit challenge.
Despite this, the older reCAPTCHA v2 is still used by millions of websites. And even sites that use the updated reCAPTCHA v3 will sometimes use reCAPTCHA v2 as a fallback when the updated system gives a user a low “human” confidence rating.
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This is actually a good sign for self driving. Google was using this data as a training set for Waymo. If AI is accurately identifying vehicles and traffic markings, it should be able to process interactions with them easier.
As I understand it, the point of those captchas was never really “bots can’t identify these things” (though you’re right on that it was used to train). They use cursor movement, clicks, and other behaviours while you’re solving it to detect if you are a bot or not.
The image choosing was always just to train their own bots
It’s a combination.
Most captchas goals generally aren’t 100% prevention, it’s to put a workload in front, this makes spamming the site cost money, a bankrolled attempt could just as easily outsource the captchas to real humans.
Since I started getting good at yosu and that fishing mini game in farmrpg I’ve been failing more captchas. I wonder if they’re related knowing this
Is that why I’m asked to do this over and over for 14 million times when I’m on a VPN?
It is probably part of it, yeah. But to be clear I’m not a captcha expert or anything, just a layman.
The annoying thing is that they held us hostage for our free labor, but the results are proprietary for Google’s benefit only.
That training data ought to be forced to be made freely available to the public, since we’re the ones who actually created it.
Afaik this is precisely what the captcha data was intended for - training AI models. Originally leveraged machine learning. LLMs are a slightly different paradigm but same purpose and results here.
i hope you’re joking. please, tell me you’re joking?
Its never been confirmed by Google, so I may be wrong. It still tracks that the data harvesting company with a AI self driving car project would use free human labor to identify road hazards.
I was referring to the “This is actually a good sign for self driving” part of their comment.
The captcha circumvention arms race has been going on for over two decades, and every new type of captcha has and will continue to be broken as soon as it’s widely deployed enough that someone is motivated to spend the time to.
So, the notion that an academic paper about breaking the current generation of traffic-related captchas (something which the captcha solving industry has been doing for years with a pretty high success rate already) is “good news” for the autonomous vehicle industry (who has also been able to identify such objects well enough to continue existing and getting more regulatory approval for years now) is…
Not really. I’m not even sure what you’re disagreeing with based on the above comment.
My point is that if bog standard AI can accurately identify all of the road information from pictures, that is good news for self driving.
What was once a nearly impossible task for computers is now mundane, and can be used to improve safety/utility for self driving, especially for FOSS projects like comma.ai
Removed by mod
And yet I can’t beat the CAPTCHAs because reCAPTCHA doesn’t like VPNs lol
Captcha these days isn’t even really a CAPTCHA in the traditional sense since most of the work it does is based on filtering of IP and browser fingerprinting, with a certain level of gamification because the goal is not just to keep out the people they fight against, but to waste their time, would work great if it didn’t waste normal people’s time, while real bad actors have easy ways to get around it.
I was going to say I’ve straight up just left whatever website I was trying to access because I was stuck in some endless loop of clicking on street crossings, buses, bikes, and street lights.
The capchas getting really bad on Mullvad almost made me give up on using a VPN. But then I learned about Buster.
This is my third post in a row shilling for this browser extension lol, it’s so good.
So can we stop using those damn things? They’re super annoying!
I’m kind of hoping the AI permanently beats them. I hate them too.
Just means they’ll get harder, but maybe not for people, just needs to be harder for a computer
Well yeah, I’d hope so, that’s the entire point.
Catcha’s data collection always was with the intent for training ai on these skills. That’s “the point” of them.
It’s reasonable to expect that the older version of captchas can now be beaten by modern ai, because they’re often literally trained on that exact data to beat it.
Captcha effectively is free to use on websites as a tool because the data collection is the “payment”, they then license that data out to people like OpenAI to train with for stuff like image recognition.
It’s why ai is progressing so fast, captchas are one of humanity’s long term collected data silos that are very full now.
We are going to have to keep progressing the complexity of catches as it will be the only way to catch modern AIs, and in turn it will collect more data to improve it.
Yeah, my understanding is that these capchas were made to harvest data to use for AI/Autopilot driven cars. That’s why they are always having you identify motorcycles, bycicles, crosswalks, stoplights, busses, etc. It’s all stuff that automatic driving cars have had a hard time identifying.
We are going to have to keep progressing the complexity of catches as it will be the only way to catch modern AIs, and in turn it will collect more data to improve it.
I wanted to use 4chan alot before I came here, but FUCK that slider capcha. I bailed after the first time I didn’t pass.
I wanted to use 4chan
I am relatively confident that you are one of the first people to ever type that sentence out.
I reread his comment three times because I was convinced I must have read it in error somehow.
I fucking hate these. I’ve seen old people that don’t know any better get stuck on these for at least 30 minutes.
it’s super ableist. if someone has poor vision or colorblindness chances are they’re going to miss things.
I have regular everything and I still fuck them up. “click the ones with a fire hydrant”. But a tiny piece of fire hydrant is spilling into another box. Does it count? Does it not count? Good luck!!
I had one the other day that was deep fried jpegs to the max. Like, what the fuck am I supposed to do.
Sprinkle powdered sugar on them. Delicious deep fried jpegs.
Spillovers into other boxes definitely count…
I don’t want to do this next part but I can’t resist…
Just ask my girlfriend…
Ba dum tiss
They offer a sound option right below.
a hard to see option, aptly enough
Same. That’s why Buster is my most recent must-have browser extension, alongside such greats as ublock and sponsorblock.
Buster is awesome to get past recaptcha. I use it with my own Speech to Text API key since its free from Google. Using Google to beat Google.
It’s so funny that this exists. I’m going to check it out!!
I can see a future where the Internet is completely run by bots and AI to the point where no human actually uses the Internet anymore.
It’s like an island that gets overrun with rats - there are just too many to deal with so you leave.
Some believe this happened years ago. Check out Dead Internet Theory.
I’m already doing that now. If Lemmy starts showing signs of fuckery I’m out. I’ll switch back to magazines.
I already did… There’s some subscription stuff where you can read pretty much all available magazines and papers, it’s been a long time since I’ve been reading that much “news” and reports
I work in a place with no phones. I bring books and magazines into the shitter.
Basically Cyberpunk, people only interact with the night city intranet because the global internet has been taken over by AIs.
Yeah, I predict that in the future, you can’t expect that content on the internet is written by humans. If you go to the internet, then it will probably not be to connect to other humans. Maybe you want to know something that a bot can tell you or you have some administrative task to fulfill, like filing a form.
But, I cannot pass those 50% of the time… what does that mean?
Ever watched Bladerunner?
My mother? I’ll tell you about my mother…
You’re walking in the desert and you see a tortoise
Is it an Agassiz or a Morafka?
You should schedule an eye appointment.
Everywhere I look, all I see is fire hydrant, buses, and bicycles
Cool, so can Google shut it down now?
I mean, we literally train them by completing the CAPTCHAs. Why do you think you were picking things like bikes, traffic lights, cars, and busses? The only question now is what’s next…
they embed dark souls into the browser
In order to pay your utility bill, you have to beat the Undertale Sans fight in Genocide mode
Lmao
Prove you’re human: Beat this level of DOOM.
I never get the first one and rarely the second one. If it says to click all the squares with motorcycles and it’s just the one big picture, am I supposed to click stuff like the tire and mirrors? I always do and never get it right. Then most of the time they ask me to identify motorcycles, they show me motor scooters and what am I supposed to do then? I think I just need to get one of these bots to do it for me.
Fwiw they aren’t really asking about the motorcycle. I mean they are but they are washing your mouse movements and how fast you click through the images. It’s okay to get a few images wrong.
Not quite.
It’s mostly wisdom of the crowd, as it always has been.
As long as you mostly click the same squares most other people click, you pass.
You often at random get 2-3 images because 2 of them are actual checks, but the third is a new image that you auto pass and they’re using it to gather data on what the average clicks are on it.
A motor scooter is a motorcycle in the eyes of the law.
Not everywhere.
Where I am, you need a special license to drive a motorcycle, classified as having an engine of 51ccs or more, whereas a scooter is any motorcycle with a less than 51ccs and doesn’t require a special license.
That’s a moped, a motor scooter is just a style of bike.
Mopeds are similar but have pedals and can be used as a bicycle. The name itself, Mo-Ped" is a portmanteau for motor and pedal.
Motor scooters are different in that they have a cut out for the rider’s legs/ feet so they don’t have to straddle it the same way they would with a motorcycle. Both mopeds and motor scooters do not require a license endorsement here, while motorcycles, as defined in my original comment, do.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moped
The definition in most countries is less than 50cc and a maximum power output, they do not need to have pedals. Anything over 50cc is a motorbike.
So a moped with a 49cc engine, astep-through design, and no pedals is a moped but a scooter with a step-through design and 49cc engine is a motorcycle?
That’s confusing as fuck lol
Not really, both your examples are a moped. The definition of a moped in most places has nothing to do with the style of bike.
I bet you use the word “actually” in conversions regularly.
I bet you make incorrect assumptions about people you don’t know regularly.
CAPTCHA doesn’t stop bots, and let us be honest, it never really did. It frustrated the hell out of people though, and caused people to waste time doing these challenges. Meanwhile even before AI bad actors and bots could get past it simply by using captcha solver services run by exploited humans solving captchas for the service.
It’s a display of security theater meant to make normies feel safe but in reality doesn’t stop most bad actors.
Technically the “correct” answer is set by the highest percentage of people choosing it. EG: 19 people select Box A and 1 selects Box B, then the machine decides Box A is in fact correct.
That means these AI could be selecting the wrong answers for all anybody knows, if enough of them are answering the prompts, and still passing.
Great, so now can I get an add-on to my browser that skips these?
In use an add-on that does 90% of these for me already on Firefox. I would tell you what it’s called but I’m not at my PC.
Which (on a side note) I’d totally go downstairs and check for you, but I just sprained my ankle real bad, and am dreading stairs. Sorry :(
Sorry to hear about your ankle. When you’re able to, I’d also like to know what the add-on is
the new ones suck so fucking much though
If I see the newer ones pop up at all I just skip what ever the task is that was requiring me to bother with it.
i love when websites (twitter is a really bad example) hit me with like 8 captchas, and then if i get my username/password wrong i have to do another 8. It’s just so obviously gaming for training data on shit lmao.
What is it actually training? Google owns captcha right?
i have no clue, but i would assume it’s native to twitter if they’re pushing it that hard, either that or someone is paying a lot of money for that captcha access lol.
