Draconic NEO

Couldn’t disagree with you more, the thing about federation is that it isn’t viewing the content on the server it was posted on, it is crossposting it to all other federated servers. That means you are when federating remote content you are literally platforming it. That also means you are liable for it if it’s objectionable or illegal content. So being able to not accept those crossposts is important. Honestly defederation and limited federation are not as big of issues as you and others think they are, you can ignore the majority of the defederated servers and it’ll be fine, the issue comes when people want the world and aren’t entitles to have it, like I said in my other comment.

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Email is an example of a successful federated platform and it barely has defederation support.

You are insanely naive for saying this. If you’d used non-corporate email servers, like the much smaller email providers out there (which are basically extinct at this point) you’d know just how wrong this actually is. Most smaller email providers out there are blocked or limited by the big ones and the ones that are blocked your mail will never reach the inboxes of people on the big servers, not even the spam folders on those servers. They won’t bounce it back to you either, so it’ll just go into the void.

Most email these days is used primarily by the all mighty trinity: Gmail, Outlook, and Yahoo, and a Few on Hotmail and AOL and while there are a few smaller companies out there like Proton, when it comes to something that isn’t a company or is self-hosted you can expect a lot of problems with domains being blacklisted, IPs being blacklisted, or both. And it’s actually much worse than defederation.

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Perhaps that is how at least the non-threaded fediverse should work… However, that would also mean that some instance hosting heinous shit would keep being visible to everyone. It’s a tricky problem.

You’re beginning to realize why the decision to limit spam and illegal shit was chosen over catering to the people who want the whole federated world instead of what they’re allowed access to. Ultimately it is better for everyone if the depraved shit and spam gets blocked, than it is for the people who want the whole world to have their way. If you want the world, go to Nostr, you’ll learn why most people do not want the world.

They’re choosing to attack the public square anyway, because they don’t want their shelters, they want the whole fucking world. And they can’t have it.

This is the best way of putting it, the whole thing about people complaining about defederation. Honestly fuck the people who are like this, who do you think you are asking for the whole world when you weren’t entitled to it in the first place. You weren’t entitled access to Facebook content from Reddit or vice versa. It’s the same here.

I know that part of the reason people like that came her in the first place was because Mastodon and the OG fediverse services made that empty promise to them in the beginning (also saying a lot of shit about freedom and free speech) so those are the people that have been attracted. It really needs to be said loud and clear that this isn’t the case or intention, and catering to people who want the world when they don’t deserve it, is not the goal of the Fediverse or decentralization.

You can see it in your modlog by filtering by community bans. Here’s a link to that: https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/modlog?page=1&actionType=ModBanFromCommunity&userId=7652836

That said a lot of these bans you received seem more than justified, only the Hexbear ones I would really chalk up to nutty mods, but if you disagree I’d suggest posting about it on [email protected] as this isn’t the place to discuss mod abuse, that is.

Would need to be one that restricts participation of the other party, Lemmy blocks are useless in that regard. Otherwise you’re not doing anything to deal with network effect just pretending those spaces don’t exist. Something only useful for snowflakes with weak emotions, and not people who want to make a difference.

In order for that to work there needs to be effort taken to curb persistent network effect like the utterly monolithic communities on lemmy.ml. When there isn’t any, they just get bigger and stronger. That isn’t something you can do by starting new instances, it has to be done by ones with a big slice of the pie, something new instances never have unless started just after the collapse of an existing one.

Lemmy.world has kind of awful moderation, which means people who are trolls or bad actors have lived here for a very long time despite multiple reports. It was only recently that Linkerbaan (the most notorious one of all) was banned, and it took a thread complaining about bans in [email protected] and dbzer0 admins messaging them to get their attention.

There are other people here like that which never receive permanent bans for consistently horrible behavior. It’s not great, and while I don’t agree with Beehaw’s decision to defederate over it I do think that things could be better. It does degrade user experience to have known trolls and assholes running wild and only getting a slap on the wrist when they do something horrible.

It happened that way with Beehaw. Beehaw used to be in the same position as lemmy.ml with some of their communities. But they decided to knee jerk defederate us and sh.itjust.works because we’re big. They stopped being the de-facto communities not just for us here but almost anywhere else. Defederation does curb this kind of network effect, and quickly too, especially when it causes the less active ones to inflate like crazy.

We would adapt, just like when Beehaw was a significant amount of the userbase on Lemmy and they cut us and sh.itjust.works off, we adapted and they got smaller. Lemmy.world is a bigger server than lemmy.ml. Only reason their communities are still so big is network effect. Which would be curbed by them being cut off. As I’ve said already, network effect is curbed by force, taking away a choice, not providing 7 more choices while leaving the original.

I think things like this can be helpful at curbing network effect. Which can only be really curbed by force. Beehaw used to have quite strong network effect in some communities too in the earlier days, but now, they have much less of a vice, and are actually much quieter than they were before.

Might be a good idea to check out [email protected] in these trying times. In case it’s a while before the issue is fixed.

Do I need to dress feminine too?

I agree with that, it’s not the urinals that are the problem it’s people standing next to each other to pee. Something that wouldn’t even happen if you were pissing outside on a tree or behind some bushes.

Do you think that you need to pull your pants all the way down and sit to use a toilet to pee, if not what are you doing in the stall that wastes a ton more time? It’s not much slower from my experience just do it the way you would a urinal, with the only difference being that you have a door and real walls.

No, maybe, I don’t know, if there is it’s unspoken and unenforced because I’ve been doing it for years and no one ever complained to me.

Some people think they’re saving a bunch of time by using a urinal over a toilet but honestly it’s 5-6 seconds at most if you use it the same as you would a urinal, no sitting down, no pulling your pants all the way down, etc.

Yeah I’ve heard the spam problems have gotten worse these days but I always knew people complained about that because many of the services just didn’t moderate spam.

Particularly Lemmy because Lemmy admins have fundamentally broken the idea of federation with defederation. It generally doesn’t matter what email you use or what email the receiver uses, baring more niche services. It does actually matter what instance you’re on.

You’ve probably never tried using email outside of Google, Outlook, Yahoo or Proton but let me tell you it doesn’t just work. A lot of the servers have been blocked by the big first 3, sometimes soft-blocks being redirected to the Spam folder, but often times hard blocks where they don’t get through at all. So it very much does matter what email service you do use, as many of the smaller ones and domains you might obtain to set up your own have been defederated, much more aggressively might I add. It doesn’t take much for a domain to end up on spamhaus’ or other spam lists, and it’s a big pain to get them off said lists.

Let’s compare with Defederation of activitypub services (because Lemmy devs didn’t invent the idea of deferation, it’s part of ActivityPub standard and is a thing on all activitypub platforms), something that typically happens when a server is spamming, spreading violent or hateful messages, or otherwise engaged in unproductive or harmful behavior (i.e. trolling, rudeness towards others, etc.). We don’t use spamhaus or a similar equivalent service to filter “spam” automatically, much of it is done by server admins themself, there are tools like Fediseer meant to keep track of instances which are trusted as well as identifying known bad actors, but since this is community driven and not monolithic it is different from spamhaus and the like.

In all honesty the Defederation boogeyman is a very stupid argument, especially when comparing it to email which has ironically been hit the hardest by it. It has effectively been reduced to a handful of big players while all the other smaller ones out there find themselves unable to compete. Meanwhile on the activitypub side defederation is still an issue but it is a minor one and is limited to edge cases or bad behavior. One thing that is important to note, and why it isn’t talked about more frequently to other people is this. When people invite others to join the Fediverse, they naturally assume the people who are joining are NOT trolls, alt-right sociopaths, neonazis, pedophiles, spammers, etc. and thus are not likely to have their accounts banned or the servers they start get widely defederated. If you are one of those people chances are you aren’t the target demographic for most fediverse servers out there, and thus you will face friction, bans, and mass defederation because people do not want you in their spaces or to listen to your dogshit propaganda.

The Fediverse was never about freeze peach, it’s about collaboration and cooperation between services, and most services do not want to collaborate with people who are assholes. The people still claiming that it is for free speech are lying or misinformed, because on most servers if you speak your mind and say things that are unacceptable or evil, there will be consequences. That means bans from those servers or defederation if you run your own.

It’s an excuse, people don’t want to just say they don’t want to do it, so they make an excuse not to, saying it’s ““complicated””. They don’t feel like it or hate it for some irrational reason, possibly a misconception or just hate change.

If you see someone making excuses like this, or even casually making fun of the idea of decentralization and the fediverse, challenge them on it, point out how they are making excuses simply because they don’t want to do it, or say no. Ask them how it is “complicated” and make them give an explanation. 90% of the people I’ve done this with couldn’t come up with one and just acted embarrassed after, because they couldn’t come up with one. It’s a mindless excuse.

Doesn’t Lemmy already support federated wordpress blogs as locked communities? I don’t really see how this extra complexity is needed.

Probably were prescribed them at an earlier date but stopped taking them and had them left over. Also even over the counter ones can be deadly if you take too much of them, they are safer these days but it’s still not impossible.

The one on the left is a MAGA, they’re unable to listen to logic even if the answer is right in front of them.

I’m in a few but as a general rule I try to avoid most of the ml instance communities because some of them can be a bit on the toxic side.

Generally I stick with the ones that are on the same server as my account i.e. [email protected] on my lemmy.world account and [email protected] on my programming.dev account with exceptions to ones where I don’t have presence on that instance, or I have limited purpose of having an account there (i.e. my lemmy.blahaj.zone account only serves to moderate the Aroace and Agender communities), in which case I usually choose the one which has been most reliable. Part of the reason I did it this way was because in the early days when Lemmy.world had load issues and was being DDoSed federation would have a lot of issues,