I have recently started a new position and am required to use an app that has three Facebook trackers, one of them being a Facebook location tracker according to Exodus App Privacy in order to get your food when it would literally work perfectly fine ordering to a real cashier or shit even a website rather than having to download an app.
I have also read many stories of people that live in apartments that require them to use a mobile app for god damn LAUNDRY. All you need, is a card reader, and it will work perfectly fine like it has been for the longest time.
Privacy concerns aside, it is just annoying that you need this app and that app and this app and that app and it just clutters space on your phone. Security concerns too as now they have all of this additional info on you online, such as your phone number your email your real name, instead of just your credit card info like a card reader would have. And I am willing to guarantee that their security model is absolute horseshit because they have such a small team of engineers working on the app and the servers.
Literal enshitification
Magne
A person’s music taste seems to crystalize at some point in their teenage years. The bands you loved at 15-17 are probably the bands that you’ll love forever.
Likewise, I’m finding that my relationship with information services as a whole probably crystalized a while ago, and the new era of “apps for every individual thing” is just wholly unappealing. Give me a web browser to interface with your information. If I can’t get it done with that, I’m more likely to move on to some even older tech and skip your product altogether.
Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m late to bingo. And get off my lawn.
Me: “seems to” “at some point” “probably” while making a minor, secondary point. Others: Severely Triggered
Wait come back!! You dropped your cane!
That’s altogether BS. The bands I listen to have changed constantly since my teenage years. That’s just an excuse to become a ranting old man.
One of the credit card companies I use has a website that won’t work properly anymore in my phone’s browser.
My wife has a card through this company as well and she uses their app with no problems.
I have zero interest in installing their app so once a month I fire up my surface pro just to pay that damn bill.
It used to work just fine in the phone browser though.
Should probably just cancel that shitty account one of these days.
An interesting experiment on the music thing. Top songs on your 13th birthday, at least for US/North Americans. https://www.birthdayjams.com
Wonder what they use your birthday for?
I don’t know if anyone growing up these days would actually like mobile app requirements if they took the time to think about why they’re required. Source: I’m one of them.
I don’t think that’s true. I like what I liked what I was a teen but more in a nostalgic kind of way. I definitely didn’t like harder metalcore in my teens the way I do now lol.
Nice bullshit armchair Freud u hating every change due to immaturity or unwillingness to learn doesnt mean we do too
I realize you may just be venting but consider complaining to your college administration either via your student council or by yourself.
It should not be the norm to have to tell a stranger where you are to eat food.
You are paying for your education even if you are doing so via a loan and that gives you the right to tell them how you feel about them invading your privacy. In college and in jobs authority figures routinely try to control you and it is worth learning to take a stand against such abuses.
The number of business that just expect that everyone has already downloaded and installed their app has become ridiculous.
Best Buy now demands an app be installed for order pick up. They are so sure you’ll have already done that there are no instructions in their parking lot for pick up that don’t include the app, no way to call them, and the lot employees say, “Just use the app and we’ll get your order.” It’s like the 20% tips programmed into just about every payment machine these days. No, I won’t leave you a 20% tip for handing me a receipt.
Even when going to Best Buy’s service desk the reps looked at me like I was crazy. “No, I won’t install your app to pick up an order” was met with confusion and open irritation. Fuck that.
And don’t get me started on ‘Reddit is better in our crappy Reddit app.’
Dude same here for the Reddit prompt ! I browse incognito without a profile just to see some headlines… and every ten minutes or if I got to a risque sub, it will stop me and ask for the app download or if I want to stay on the browser… if I wanted the app… I would have gotten it… I am on the browser for a reason…
Try to use “request desktop site”, stuff may be sized weirdly, but at least you don’t get that stupid pop up anymore
I find that many desktop sites scale just fine, and as you stated, the most common issue is simply that the elements may be sized a little strangely. The desktop sites tend to be way more functional. I miss my old Windows Mobile PDA with the stylus that could tap the smallest of links without a problem. With most phones I’ve had in recent history being at least 1920x1080, there’s no reason a site shouldn’t be able to display in desktop landscape mode.
When something’s flagged NSFW, you can replace the “www” with “old” (e.g. old dot reddit dot com) to bypass :)
Fast food is about 30% more expensive if you refuse the app.
Personal experience:
Tim Hortons
Wendy’s:
This is why I hope to god when I’m living in my own we never get to the point where apps become 100% required to purchase shit from a store. I’d rather starve and miss a day’s worth of meals than order off an app.
Grocery shopping and food prep is always an option. Cheaper and healthier too.
If you have time to browse Lemmy, you got time to throw some shit in an air fryer/insta pot/slow cooker.
That I can totally agree, as someone who actually enjoys cooking. If I could get my family on board, I wouldn’t mind getting their help making and freezing meals on the weekend for days when we just don’t feel like cooking or my mother’s back is bothering her or whatever.
My bachelor days I’d make a tray of lasagna or a pot of beef stew and I had meals for almost 5 days. I will say that I was really sick of lasagna or beef stew by day 4 though.
Looks like you’ll be foraging for food in the woods
Yeah, I hate that. At an old job, sometimes people would go around and take lunch orders before running to Wendy’s, Hate Chicken, or Chipotle. I’d way rather give my coworker cash and let them have the bonuses and discounts and crap while I maintain the privacy afforded to cash-only Chads. It’s still an L though because we’re still giving the companies money.
Jesus, it’s like they want you to order online from a third party instead of paying them.
Reddit is better in our crappy Reddit app.
Oh fuck reddit for doing that.
I went to college before it was app everything and our student id’s were smartcards. Dining plan associated with the smartcard. Just stick it in the reader when you show up and you’re good. You could put cash on your card then use it for the vending machines or laundry or any little incidental on campus. If you needed cashed added to your account, your parents could go online and do it, or you could. That was the only online component. The entire system just worked without any fuss or privacy concerns or anything.
Almost without any privacy concerns. When I went to college around the turn of the millennium, I worked at the main food court on campus. We had a card system just like you’re describing. When we swiped the student’s card to pay for their meal, their student ID would come up on my screen. Their student ID was their SSN. Back then the first three digits of a person’s SSN was based on the state they lived in when they got their number assigned. For most people that was when they were a baby or at least very young, and for most people that’s the state they did most of their growing up in. I used to have most of the codes memorized, so when I’d swipe someone’s card and see that they had an SSN from someplace that wasn’t the state where the university was, I’d mention it. “Oh, hey, you’re from Ohio? My aunt lives in Ohio.”
Yikes! That was a privacy nightmare. We were fortunate that the university assigned a personal ID on enrollment. I think the only place that had access to the social was the front office. Of course some of the students worked at the front office. I hope they were required to sign an NDA.
Yeah it worked this was in the late 90s except your ID was a swipe card and it really only worked on food. You also had to go to the business office with a check to deposit more funds. Online was still dial up for most people.
That’s still how it works where I am, but the little devices to renew your card every semester are broken half the time, so yay
Yeah, same but they also worked as bus passes.
I like this too because it doesn’t require you to turn on NFC which I feel like drains power.
I mean, it does. But it’s such an insignificant amount you’d never notice.
If you got an hour of use out of your phone for instance, you’d only lose about 18 seconds runtime.
Huh, today I learned. I’d always assumed it was like Bluetooth or location.
My apartment complex wants me to download some third-party app just to pay my rent, instead of using their perfectly serviceable web portal. I assume they’re getting a data harvest kickback that’s buried in several layers of fine-print legalese, which will be used to send me targeted spam and junk mail. And that data will be sold and re-sold to other parties ad infinitum. Whatever they can collect about my personal life, for sale to any asshole with enough cash in their pocket. Fuck that. I shouldn’t have to deal with this bullshit just to keep a roof over my head.
I was visiting family in the city I grew up in and we decided to go to this place that now charges for parking. It’s a city lot. I figured I have to get this app to park. The city app.
First, it was a nightmare of horrible bad UX and half-assed customization. Second, it took about 15 minutes of bs to pay for parking (time outs, a couple 2fa’s, we need you to use a social but we haven’t set up that login path correctly). Finally, get parking paid, my wife is losing her mind thinking I’m an idiot because it took so long, and then the spam calls started. I literally wasn’t into the building and I was getting spam texts and robo calls. I’m not talking “goods and services I might like” , this was “Canadian border services has determined you have unpaid fines” voicemails and “hi, i just found your number again can u text” type stuff. Just wild.
That’s terrible. So much data harvesting out there. It’s crazy. Cities and companies hire out to contractors that also do shady shit to the code to also harvest that data. It’s wild.
Yes, agreed. It’s not like it’s a big city but it’s big enough that it was obvious this was either a blatant cash grab or complete mismanagement (laziness/incompetence). Guessing the latter.
Oh I feel this in my soul. I am pregnant and have a two year old… I was and am a huge customer of pampers (and enfamil formula for when my two year old was little) the apps have kick backs… and against my better judgement z I broke down and got these apps for the kick back… I regret it… my email is overwhelmed with spam suddenly… an email I worked hard to get all the spam out of a few months ago… I am also getting random calls and voicemails for services I would never use. It’s so frustrating… I just wanted to the points for the products I normally buy to save a few pennies… but can’t do it with out my data being harvested and being spammed with crap
Does your lease precise you have to use the app or own a smartphone ? If not, get a cellphone, like those new 3210. Call them, ask them how to install, or visit their office. Play it dumb. Of they tell you to get a smartphone, tell them to provide you one.
Or use your bank’s bill-pay service. They’ll mail a check or send it electronically (which is effectively the same as using a debit card).
And furthermore: Most of these shitty apps are nothing more than overblown API clients. Which means they didn’t want to build a website and operate a webserver, so instead you provide the processing power for the UI yourself. These apps usually can’t do anything on their own, if you are offline, becaue all the value is generated remotely by the actual server.
The modern software experience sucks much!
An app in itself isn’t a bad thing… it’s the requirement that is wrong. Everything these days does seem to be geared around data mining and control. That well has to be getting awfully dry because it’s getting worse and worse.
You can’t even use many products without having an app that needs to be connected online so it can read your contacts and searches and such. Sites are getting harder to use if you have a DNS ad blocker or VPN on. Not sure where it ends…
I can only speak from the experience of one app at one company, but data we collected was for troubleshooting. Mainly because customers will email us stuff like “your app doesn’t work!!! Worst company ever!!” And absolutely no identifying information whatsoever. To make matters worse they’ll email with an email that they didn’t give us as a customer so how in the world are we supposed to help‽
So we collect enough data so whoever in the company might need to help them can actually do so.
There’s a lot of “this app is impossible to use!!!” That we find out with enough data collection is just them refusing to hit the GIANT button in the middle of the damn screen that would solve their problem. I hate users.
I believe we answered questions in the Apple and Google stores that says that we collect information and send it to 3rd parties (because analytics platforms are technically 3rd party) but not to sell it. I don’t know if that distinction is clear on the stores though.I used to work in a job where we had a niche ebook reader app in the major app stores. My favorite review that someone left?
1 star, Worst game ever.
Collecting data relevant to the app is ok and logical. It’s collecting unrelated personal info I gave a problem with.
And i can sympathize with you regarding users. I design control system interfaces and sometimes I go to extremes to make it good for idiots. And i still get calls at 7am, have to drop everything else and drive 40 miles just to point out the giant red ALARM text i specifically put there to make things easier. It’s on the first fucking page!
It’s nice that remote access is easier now but some of these facility managers… i don’t know who puts their pants on for them because they don’t seem to be able to navigate treacherous logic and reason.
I hope I didn’t just quote your whole post, still trying to figure out boost hah
I’m sure we’ve all experienced this…
Go to example.com
“Ooops! It looks like you’re on a mobile device, which we for some asinine corporate reason don’t support on our desktop site! No “enable desktop site” won’t make this message go away because we make an unreasonable effort to deny you access to our site. Go to mobile.example.com instead.”
Goes to mobile.example.com
“Just kidding! What, you think we were actually going to let you access this without installing something? No, fuck you! This page is literally just a full screen ad for our app and has no access to any other part of platform, download it and agree to it’s fifty permissions before we’ll even give you a glimpse of our content!”
When you download the app, it’s just a web page packaged with all the tracking software.
If you try to read comments on reddit on their website it eventually forces you to use the app to continue.
use old.reddit and it works fine
And then that ends up giving you another reason to switch to lemmy and screw reddit.
Yes, this is a trend I’ve been commenting on for…well it seems like a very long time.
It’s clearly enshittification in nearly every single case; the more clueless johnny-come-lately tech-trendsters want to label me as just being old-fashioned or something when I bring it up. Trying to explain to them what is going on is usually a pointless exercise, as they have been steeped in a new==better mindset that is nearly ironclad and since they didn’t use reason to get themselves into that position, but instead, emotion, trying to reason them out of it is not going to happen…
And they get bombarded by app developers and consultants telling them they MUST have an app or all these bad things will happen to them.
Smart phones ruined the internet
No. The corporations have ruined the Internet
Both are responsible
deleted by creator
Capitalism ruined the Internet
Capitalism ruined humanity
People ruined capitalism
Money makes pretty much everything worse.
I opened a bank account at Bank of America. Apparently it was just a matter of course to make people install the BOA app before opening an account. I practically had to fist fight them to get them to drop it. It was like they got commissions for every app install or something. Scary, honestly.
At least I learned from the experience that “I actually don’t have the Play Store on my phone” isn’t a good way to get them to drop it. I guess next time I get hard sold on an app, I’ll go the “I’ll decline the app, thanks” route. We’ll see whether that works or not.
I wonder if “oh I’m using some Nokia dumb phone” would have gotten them to stop
I figured “my phone’s weird and I don’t have the Play Store and can’t really install the app” would do it, but it really really didn’t.
Two different people pressured me to install the app. Both pressured me hard to show them (not at the same time, one after the other) that I didn’t have the Play Store. (And, yeah, I should have walked out before it got that far, but I’m not proud to admit I didn’t.)
The second one pressured me hard to go to such-and-such URL and download the BOA app in a way that didn’t require the Play Store. (Honestly, I was an extremely late adopter of smart phones. I didn’t and still don’t really fully know my way around them. And didn’t know you could just download an APK via a browser and install it. To be fair, I guess I still don’t know that for sure, because it didn’t work when this guy got me to do it.)
After that didn’t work I was like “it’s not like BOA doesn’t have a web app, right?” and hevery disapprovingly told me “but you know the web app isn’t secure.” I can’t say I’ve been literally shocked speechless many times in my life, but this was is one of them. (This was after I told him I’m a software engineer by trade. In fact, I’m a web developer and I’m the web application security guy on my team. Ha!)
I think “it won’t work on my phone” made these folks go into tech support mode. That surprised me. I figured they’d be fairly tech inept and not really want to get into a whole technical discussion. Which is why I’m thinking “I’d rather have a buffalo take a diarrhea dump in my ear than install your app” might bypass the “tech support” conversation to the distainful lecturing one.
What about “hello I’m your customer and I’m not installing your app.” End of argument.
“No”, is a complete sentence.
Ask any woman, they’ll tell you that only applies to men.
Or, “I have plenty of other banks I could open an account from that don’t require an app.”
This is what I told my employer’s IT system. They have an app for non-standard 2fa that I had no interest in configuring so now I just get phone calls.
Not surprised; BOA is the fucking Taco Bell of banking. The only one worse that I can think of is Wells Fargo.
Was gonna argue with you till you mentioned Wells (and I’ve had both Boa and Wells).
Screw banks, just left Wells for a credit union. Much better experience, saves me $500/year from the start.
This won’t help in the above case so it’s a little off topic. But I got rid of Twitter on my phone and still use Twitter on my phone - Basically you just open twitter.com in Firefox, and go to the menu and click “Install”. Now you get a launcher icon to an “app” but it’s just the website hosted by the browser.
Instantly saves 150Mb, stops it doing evil shit and because it’s hosted in Firefox I get to block all the ads.
I would advise doing this with any app which has a desktop / mobile version and see what happens - Facebook, Reddit, LinkedIn etc. Some social media sites will nag you to install the app but some won’t or will be functional in spite of it.
Hey that’s interesting. I haven’t used Firefox on iphone for a while because I didn’t think it was possible to add a blocker. Is that now possible? If so, which one do you use?
Assuming ios has the same extensions as android, I recommend ublock origin. Used it for years on both PC and android with hardly any issues.
I only use Android so I don’t know. Check the menu and see if you have add-ons and you can install uBlock Origin. Edit - it looks like thanks to Apple being Apple, Firefox on iPhone is a wrapper around webkit and doesn’t support add-ons. Maybe you could still make a launcher though I don’t know.
I’d still go a step further and use a more privacy respecting frontend where possible. Not all of them will allow the use of an account though, so if interacting with the content is important to you, then those are obviously not an option.
OMG fokng genius. Tqq mate for the tip. I’m using it for google news
I insist on doing as much as I can on my mobile browser to reduce the number of apps I have and only use apps that I feel are useful. Forcing me to use an app for trivial things just means I won’t use your service at all.
Works pretty well, and one of the things I like about Lemmy is that the mobile browser experience is perfectly fine, it’s good in its simplicity.
A while ago, I started keeping a personal library/journal/etc. using Logseq. I could fire up Logseq in any browser on the planet, connect to my notes, and jot down whatever idea I had in the moment, all in a FOSS journal that stored my notes in plaintext markdown.
Then … I don’t know what happened, but 100% of their effort went into building an app, which then required them to build a (paid, proprietary) sync service, all rather than just releasing a self-hosted build of the web interface so I could spin up my own note-taking server. (Please don’t suggest alternatives; I’ve probably tried them all.) To “preserve privacy” and promote “local first”, I had to download an app and rely on a closed-source backend to do something I could trivially accomplish on my own. If my platform doesn’t support the app, no notes, unless I rely on the increasingly unmaintained web “demo” that does exactly 100% of what I need from the service, despite dozens of features missing compared to the app version.
But the kicker is that I cannot install things on my work computer. At all. Not portable apps, nothing. I will get a phone call from infosec if I even try, because we are a heavily regulated company. So if I have a bright idea at work, a thought I want to preserve, find a good article, etc., I have to go to another device. I have to interrupt my workflow, change my focus completely, and, probably, lose half of what I wanted to capture.
The thing is, I don’t think they’re data farming. I think they’re running a really good project! Users were begging for an app. “When are you going to release an app?” was a common question forever, because a whole generation of dingleberries cannot be bothered to go to a website that does the same thing, faster, and better than any app.
I’m still going to mention Zettlr and you can’t stop me.
Though it doesn’t have mobile apps and you’d have to use your own method of syncing the files, so not really what you’d need anyway.
There really isn’t a lot of FOSS apps than can replace Obsidian, while also being local-first and usable without an account, is there?
Logseq is really, really close. It’s basically a page I can start writing on, forcing minimal organization through bullets but otherwise freeform. Backlinking, plugins (meh), plain markdown. It’s just so good. It doesn’t require me to do anything other than write. It used to be entirely browser-based, syncing through a github repository. They could have released a self-hostable version of that and I would have been over the moon. Or, alternately, a self-hostable version with non-local storage so I could store my notes on a notes server I control. But they went with the app + sync service route. Understandable but sad.
So I just rolled my own sync through a git server and it works fine (other than iOS, which requires a maddening setup, but that’s not logseq’s fault).
I looked at Zettlr once or twice (thank you for mentioning it). Obsidian makes me crazy with all the UI fiddly bits and configuration. I tried. Oh how I tried. But it just didn’t work with my brain. (It’s the exact same reaction I have to KDE – there’s just TOO MUCH and it sets me off in unproductive directions, and that’s not a criticism of either project as such.)
I tried Logseq after looking for an Obsidian alternative, but I already failed at understanding how to import my notes. Can’t you just point the app to a folder? The import function seemed to only work for single markdown files, but maybe I was just missing something obvious.
That was a lot more straightforward in Zettlr, so I just kept using that, since it already does everything I need
Sort of, but the notes aren’t organized in the filesystem. So you point to a location where the files will live and it creates, e.g., journals and pages folders into which journals and pages are dropped. Each is one flat directory (which seems like a scaling problem after a while, but I’m nowhere near that being an issue).
Because logseq doesn’t do freeform markdown by default, you cannot just open any arbitrary markdown file in it. Or, rather, it will give unpredictable results if you do. If you’re used to a free-form editor that organizes files hierarchically, that is going to seem very, very strange and may not be what you’re looking for. My preference is to spend zero time organizing files and organizing text, so logseq’s choice to make both a non-issue is an absolute godsend. Open the app, start typing. It’s great (for me).
Yeah okay, no wonder I couldn’t warm up to it. I need that order and hierarchy in my notes
I refuse to use services that demand you use their app.
Services only need a website for the most part, not only is this easier for development cost but it is simplier to create a mobile friendly website instead of creating an Android app, iOS app and a desktop app.
To be fair, there are frameworks like Flutter nowadays that let you build your app once in one language and it will build/compile an iOS, Android, and web app for you.
True, I am all for Flutter and Tauri. However websites are better for sevices since it is not likely the company will release a fully open source app or APIs for developers to build apps for the service. There are many web clients out there that are open source and allow for a good private web experience.
And even if a company does release a FOSS app, it is hard to get the company to release the app on alternative app stores like F-Droid.
Also I do not want a million apps on my phone taking up space, that could be running in the background and harvesting my data. Websites or PWA are like one-time apps you load in the browser, use and the close to discard, especially when you use your browser private mode.
Oh yeah, I definitely agree. Just pointing out it’s nowhere near as difficult/complicated to build or maintain apps for multiple platforms like it used to be.
