It is whatever you buy a battery and charger for first. Then you are unwilling to forfeit that battery to just buy another tool. So you get another tool of the same brand, even if you aren’t happy with the previous. Then at that point, you’ve gone to far. You’ve got several hundred dollars in batteries you would have to give up just to switch. It is the most blatant example of the sunken cost fallacy.
Ryobi, specifically has entry level tools (a basic drill) that come with a charger and battery for cheaper than you can even buy a battery by itself. When you’re young and broke and all you need to do is hang some curtains or something you get it. But really, it is just a seed for your future “house” that you belong to.
I found a set of Makita tools for 60% off last year and now I’m Makita battery dependent for the rest of my life
In 10 years you will have thousands of dollars in makita tools because hey, that hammer drill you needed was only $110, better get another battery too, your old ones are getting tired. 🤷♂️ and you will always have makita tools, forever. Even if you hate them.
Feels like something the EU would eventually work on settling: making all tool manufacturers have a non-proprietary connector.
Just fucking make it all XT90 or something.
And have the battery dangling? XT90 also doesn’t provide any way to communicate things like max charging speed, cell voltage or failure conditions to the charger
I’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop and for a Belgian or something to drop in here to say that they’ve had fully interchangeable batteries for the last twenty years, and then make fun of us for building houses out of wood because we didn’t clear cut our continent.
More people should know there actually are adapters for different brands of batteries on amazon, and thingiverse if you have a 3D printer
And if you don’t have a 3D printer, your local library likely does.
Looking for this comment, I’m still running my craftsman 19.2 volt tools, but with a 20v DeWalt adapter, saved my from throwing away 1 reciprocating saw, 1 light, 1 1/4" impact, 2 drills, 1 90° drill, and a circular saw.
And if you don’t have a 3D printer, your local library likely does.
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Yeah Ryobi is dirt cheap and good enough for most things. When you need to add another tool, choosing between the one that doesn’t have a battery and the one that does but is twice the price has a big influence on your decision.
Also, I’m not a contractor, so I only use certain tools once every six months. Have yet to have anything fail on me. If it does, maybe I’ll upgrade. Certain tools have already paid for themselves in that they saved me from needing to hire someone else. Just getting a pole saw and hedge trimmer alone saved me probably $700.
I do have a few of the other brands, but they were damn pricey and I don’t use them enough to justify it.
Fucking Ridgid got me, because on paper, they have lifetime warranties on their batteries. But after buying an expensive combo, they made it an absolute hassle to register my tools, so I kinda doubt they’ll honor their warranty. Now I’m Ridgid + Dewalt. My corded tools and hand tools are whatever brand; harbor freight or walmart if not used often, Milwaukee, DeWalt, etc if I expect to use them often.
Would there be a way to 3D print plastic part of a battery and just fill it with standard battery types (cylindrical batteries) and make them swapable? Because as far as i know there isn’t really any electronics in batteries, just different voltages based on number of batteries in series and different mounting mechanism. It just seems like a silly vendor lock-in.
I actually did a lot of research on this when I bought my first battery tools, knowing this would be the case, and decided they had a decent range of everything I’d likely need.
I went with AEG.
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Do Bosch tools not exist outside of Germany? Here the professional (blue) line is pretty much on par with hilti and Makita in terms of quality if not better depending on the type of tool
Bosch doesnt really enter the chat in a lot of places because their range of (excellent) tools just isnt that big.
If you’re looking to enter a dad dick measuring contest with your tool collection Bosch isnt going to win, I swear Ryobi is about 3 seconds from bringing out a battery powered battery.
I have Ryobi’s battery powered power supply, so… kinda!
There’s some Bosch stuff in the UK. I’m a Makita person but I recently bought a Bosch glue gun and it’s the most solid feeling glue gun I’ve ever had.
Not a professional line but I also know a few people that love the Parkside tools from Lidl, they are good value home tools so I’m told.
The Lidl tools give me some serious Harbor Freight vibes.
Bosch os common throughout Europe. In the US it probably suffers from the not invented here syndrome. Or maybe just heavy taxes, or they don’t think blue is manly enough. Who can tell?
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Green vs Blue.
I’ve let the smoke out of a Bosch drill before, they’re not that great.
Thing is I’ve only seen their cheap and really crappy line.
I work with Hilti tools at work. You just made me giggle, thanks!
Festool is the dad who still says “My father will hear about this”. Sure people like him but he’s still an asshole.
Festool is like a Porsche. They are expensive, but once you experience it you understand why they are worth that price.
Dewalt is still that well regarded? My dad fucking hates them lol we used to have a good amount of their stuff and then tool after tool broke on him and he won’t buy them unless he doesn’t have a better option (he and my brother are HVAC/plumbers). He likes Milwaukee but thinks they’re overpriced, and has a decent amount of Ryobi stuff now, along with Bosch. My grandpa was the Makita man.
I have a lot of Ryobi and Makita hand-me-downs as a result, haven’t really had to buy much of my own yet, but that’s changing.
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Everyone except the Ryobi dads sound like they must be exhausted tbh…
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No doubt lol
As a bisexual Makita dad, this describes me well.
Damn bro, we should hang. Makita dad meetup
Love my overpriced German Metabo.
I have a metaboHPT Brad nailer and it was absolutely the most affordable I could find outside of harbor freight level, and at the same time one of my highest quality tools. Truly a joy to use.
MetaboHPT are Hitachi. I wish their tools were compatible with my Metabo gmbh CAS batteries.
Anyone buying Hilti for DIY work needs to be slapped.
This tracks.
DeWalt: high quality and good pedigree but overpriced = Slytherin
Milwaukee: basically the same as DeWalt, but less pretentious. Thinks they’re better and tougher though = Gryffindor
Makita: the smart choice for value, also best colors = Ravenclaw
Ryobi: I know it will break, but they’re just tools and I’m not serious about this anyway. I would rather spend more money on my family or other hobbies = Hufflepuff
Honorable mentions of other “houses” and schools in the thread.
Black and Decker/Craftsman/whatever. Used to be very impressive, but completely corrupted. Probably evil = Durmstrang (Russian school)
Festool: Beautiful, absolutely dripping with wealth signals. Still pretty amazing at what they do, but you might not want them on a job site = Beauxbatons (super wealthy French school)
Harbor freight: Simple, potentially the most powerful but also likely to break. Can probably accomplish what you need by using a wrench as a hammer, but you wouldn’t want to do anything delicate with it. Actually the biggest group of dad-wizards = Uagadou (the school in Uganda where magic was invented but they don’t use wands)
I don’t know where you shop but DeWalt is cheaper than Milwaukee and Makita. Project Farm tests show Milwaukee as usually best but trades wins against Makita.
So no, DeWalt isn’t overpriced. It’s cheaper and less quality. Neither is Milwaukee equivalent to DeWalt. Milwaukee/Makita are better, sometimes incredibly better than DeWalt but at a much higher price.
For example a drill with battery on Amazon is:
DeWalt: $99 Makita: $149 Ryobi: $73 Milwaukee: $144
At Home Depot and Lowes, the price difference between DeWalt and Milwaukee is even bigger.
Could be, but there are also like 80 different impact drivers in each brand, so tough to compare apples to apples. I also bought all my power tools years and years ago, so just going off what I remember when I was doing my research. I actually own mostly DeWalt and some Makita and Harbor Freight, and my router stuff is all Bosch. The only Milwaukee stuff I own is their M18 yard tools stuff and it’s really shoddily built and quite shit, though it did look the best compared to the alternatives - so probably just a function of compromising on a multi tool. But hey, I’m just one dad.
The one thing I know for sure is there’s a silly amount of brand loyalty and sweeping generalizations (like the ones I made!), and it’s tough to cut through any of it since tool review websites and videos are probably the worst example of AI generated blogspam I experience in my daily life. Unless someone’s a professional tradesman, they probably don’t get to use tools enough to have well-informed opinions, and then their needs don’t even really match harry homeowner in the first place!
It’s probably best to just do blind tribalism and give us something to make fun of other dads for. What I’m trying to say is your response is exactly what someone in House Milwaukee would say.
Yeah the only tools I’ve had die on me way too early is DeWalt and Ryobi.
FYI Durmstrang is from Hungary.
So Russia-lite
Ah, thanks. I haven’t read those books for years and years.
Is this canonical?
What about snap-on?
Awesome characterization, I’m not following the Potterverse but what would Hilti be? Or Mafell?
We’ve reached the ends of my knowledge of both tool brands and Harry Potter unfortunately. Hilti I’ve got no idea - I only feel bad about leaving out Bosch.
Depending on what you’re doing, you absolutely want Festool on a job site. A Rotex sander is fantastic for doing the edges when you’re refinishing hardwood floors, for instance. (Goddamn incompatible sanding discs though… You have to buy the Festool discs if you want the dust management.) For some jobs, there really aren’t any viable alternatives to Festool; no one else makes a domino joiner, which is somewhere between a plate joiner and a mortise and tenon joint. (You can get close by using a precision doweling jig, but the domino joiner is fast. Mortise and tenons are fantastic joints, but a mortising machine isn’t terribly portable, and cutting one by hand is far, far more skill than I have.)
I’m familiar, but does a domino go to a job site? Or does it stay in a dedicated shop full of fancy/specialized tools?
Also we should probably remember we’re talking dads getting sorted, not actual professionals, so if I’m wrong in industry - it’s because I’m coming from hobbyist dad-land. I don’t even know anyone with anything festool. At best I’m going off of forums and YouTube and guessing at what fancy dads want…though I wouldn’t mind a domino of someone else is paying!
A domino joiner on a job site would be good for things like putting together pieces or a banister (railing) where you needed both the strength or something like a doweled joint as well as the alignment capability of a biscuit joiner. It’s going to add strength to any kind of mitered joint that would be glued/where you don’t want to see nails. Most of the uses are going to be in cabinetry or furniture rather than in general carpentry and contracting, but it definitely has a few very specialized uses on a job site.
I am not a contractor, but I did it for a very brief period of time (until the business owner stiffed me of about a thousand in pay, and I realized it wasn’t a good side gig).
Festool is not on this list because Festool owners NEVER GET ANYONE PREGNANT.
Can confirm, had a vasectomy years ago.
Love the very, very few Festools that I have. But the price is painful.
Bosch
Specifically Bosch blue.
Interestingly I have a first generation Bosch Uneo (green consumer device, non changeable battery). Uneo is a consumer level cordless screwdriver and pneumatic hammer drill hybrid, it will easily put up to four to six holes into concrete walls (enough for home use when hanging something, but afterwards it’s empty and needs to be recharged)
The Uneo is one of my most useful tools for occasional use, and I know of no other brand which offers a similar tool which fulfills those roles in a non-craftsman home.
If you regularly build stuff its battery is too weak, but I use it a few times a year. Hang a picture, lamp or a wall cupboard in my apartment (which partly has concrete walls in this high-rise building) - not a problem.
Id like to get their compound miter with the hinge but probably won’t use it enough to justify the cost.
Metabo
My dad gifted me a Dewalt Impact for Father’s day one year and I’ve been unintentionally stuck in that ecosystem since.
How have power tool companies not figured out Gillette’s trick about giving you a free razor on your 18th birthday to lock you in for decades?
Dewalt has the juice to get it done but lacking g in specialty tools and their tough system sucks compared to Milwaukee. Coming from a guy with several grand of dewalt. Kind of wish I went Milwaukee but I’m in too deep…
They’re getting better on specialty tools the last year or 2.
The 12 volt line has expanded as well. I Didn’t need the 12v drill driver combo but wanted the 12v rachet they had as a free tool ona sale.
I rarely grab the 20v drill or driver unless the 12 just can’t get it done.
The tough system stuff is finally starting to catch up a bit. I will admit it pisses me off to no end that so many items that come in clam shell cases aren’t compatible or the tough system boxes could be designed with those items in mind as well.
Milwaukee is still winning that one but I couldn’t justify the price.
House DeWalt: The Builders
House Ryobi: The Slapjobs
House Milwaukee: The wishes they were house DeWalt
House Makita: Quality prevails regardless of how little I use my tools.
Unmentioned:
House Bosch: House Makita but doesn’t like Asians
House Metabo: House Milwaukee but green
House Rigid: wow these are fuckin cheap
House Worx: Tools take a backseat to Yardwork
House Metabo HPT: My wife says they’re great
Milwaukee is better than DeWalt in literally every category. Come at me.
I was browsing the tool section at a Home Depot once a couple of years ago when a very attractive young woman came up to me and started asking me about my project. I’m not so dense that I thought she was hitting on me, but I couldn’t figure out her angle and I thought maybe she was a prostitute or something. Turns out she was a Milwaukee sales rep and she was trying to encourage people (men, rather) to buy some Milwaukee cordless tools.
So, technically not a prostitute.
I’ve got AEG, which is basically yellow Milwaukee anyway.
I’ve used dewalt professionally for many years. My buddies who use Milwaukee are always borrowing my stuff. I’ll leave it at that.
My construction companion runs Milwaukee. As I stated in a different comment, he’s had several drills and batteries blow in about three years. This isn’t to say they’re not a great brand, but that’s too many lemons for the premium they charge for my taste. seems like their biggest downfall is the plastic shells they use, especially on batteries. Those little power check buttons break right quick, and the rubber over moulding doesn’t deal with grease well.
I run Metabo HPT, and I abuse the hell out of them. Drilling inch holes 12" deep in concrete for garage anchors, running all the batteries in sub zero and 100+ temps, notching studs until the multi tool is too hot to hold. Never had a failure in 6 years. Even my original batteries still work as well as the new. A slick bonus I found out being a compulsive tinkerer, the batteries that they sell as 18v 3ah are actually 24v 5ah. I always wondered why they lasted so long before I ripped a few apart. Samsung cells as well.
Yeap, switched from Milwaukee from DeWalt recently. The tool quality is pretty much the same, but the Milwaukee battery and chargers are a lot nicer.
Except battery life in my experience.
While I agree with you on most accounts, Milwaukee drills have cheap switches on them, they’re usually the first to hang to go. The chucks seem kinda cheap too, but honestly that’s not enough for me to switch teams, I’m married to Milwaukee, and the divorce would just be too damn expensive at this point.
House Hilti: Unyielding. Immutable. Eternal.
Rigid are mostly Milwaukee tools but cheaper.
Ngl, I absolutely love rigid. Most have lifetime guarantees, even on batteries.
Never had to exercise them fortunately.
Two different companies. Milwaukee and Ryobi are owned by the same company though.
Incorrect, Ridgid and AEG are also part of TTI.
Choice is an illusion.
The company also sells power tools, largely made by TTI,
Not as clever as you think you are.
You forgot house Black & Decker
DeWalt is owned by Stanley Black&Decker
House Festool: Expensive, but I shift the cost to my clients.
Also, pretty systainers for storage and German ordnung.
I dropped my locking, variable speed, single direction, corded drill with the chuck key electrical taped to the cracked plastic cord on a board and the hole I needed formed naturally out of fear.
You remember how Harry chose the house he wanted to be in, and it’s canon, that the sorting hat ward isn’t definite? When I was buying my first tool, I wanted a Ryobi. But they didn’t have it in stock and they did have Makita on sale and the sales guy told me that would be much better for the same price. So after that I’m buying only Makita, to fit the rest.
Well… was he right?
Of course. Didn’t you watch Harry Potter?
I did but I’m still not convinced Harry was better off in Gryffindor
I can’t tell. I never had an issue, but I’m only using the tool for home use.
You need to know that most power tools are ultimately owned by only a few brands
Milwaukee and Ryobi for example are both owned by TTI but the Marketing is strong.
https://www.protoolreviews.com/power-tool-manufacturers-who-owns-them/
Well, yes, but they serve drastically different markets, and the ownership structure is different. Ryobi is for the home owner that occasionally uses tools, and is licensed by a Japanese company to allow TTI to produce the brand. Milwaukee is for heavy daily use, and is wholly owned by TTI.
Heck yeah! Makita is just Makita!
DeWalt gang, stand up!
In my experience, Dewalt has been the best in terms of balance between reliability, flexibility, and cost. Milwaukee is probably the most reliable but also the most limited. Ryobi are cheap junk. Makita tools I haven’t used but I’ve been told repeatedly that they used to be awesome but are now cheap junk.
All of these companies have at least a few items that are cheap junk (like most of the bluetooth speaker stuff…wtf?) but some are worse than others.
While I acknowledge that Ryobi is at the bottom of the barrel, my experience with them has been really good. I’ve been using the same drill/driver for 20 years, and have gotten lots of use out of their other tools.
Same… I simply don’t use the tools enough to justify buying the expensive model. If a certain tool fails, maybe I’ll buy the higher quality model, but so far nothing has failed and they do the job. Don’t care too much about having the right brand.
I’ve got all Dewalt for the stuff that needs to last (circular saw, reciprocating saw, drills, etc), but for some things I get the cheap garbage because the cost difference is so extreme and I know I’m just going to replace them every couple years anyway.
Most of my yard equipment is ryobi. All of the stuff with massive batteries is just so stupidly expensive from Dewalt and Milwaukee. I don’t expect an outdoor lithium ion battery to last more than 5 years anyway, so instead of getting the high quality version, I got the shit one and had money to spare on extra batteries.
I have the flexvolt yard tools and they’ve gone strong for 5 years. Their blower is the strongest out there but only last about 15-20 minutes.
I’ve used dewalt professionally for many years and the tools are top notch
I needed to pick a side 4 years ago when buying a drill and hadn’t heard a bad word about DeWalt.
So I bought DeWalt.
Can’t, sold my kidneys to afford these and I’m too sore.
Couple years back I went to the graduation party of a kid my step daughter was friends. The dad had an entire wall pegboarded out with every possible Ryobi cordless tool. It was honestly impressive. And he had one Makita tool. Made me laugh.
Straight up Ryobi here. It’s not pro-hardcore, but for homeowner DIY and the variety and range of devices, it’s been solid.
Pretty funny how Home Depot has stayed neutral and carried all those brands.
Im a ryobi slut too, mainly for the price, except for a few old Metabo grinders which are built like brick shithouses and will probably outlive me.
Metabo for the win!!! I’ve got a metabo pneumatic brad nailer and it’s high quality, light, and affordable AF.
I’ve found that any project my Ryobi isn’t suited for is a project I would have opted to hire a professional anyway. 99% of people can get away with Ryobi 99% of the time. That remaining 1% really isn’t worth the increased price from brands like Dewalt.
Maybe I am a gorilla but every time I buy Ryobi - it breaks before the first job is done.
I got a Ryobi pressure washer and not even 2 hours into washing - it exploded like a fuckin bomb. Home Depot gave me a refund for the pressure washer but not my pants.
Jesus thats got to be a defect on a scale that impacts an entire run or something. Do they use cintered aluminum in their pump housings or something?!
Same… it’s hard to justify getting the most expensive tools when I only use them once every 3-6 months. If other people want to spend their money keeping up with tool brands that’s a competition I’ll gladly lose. Got better things to spend my money on.
They are fine for anything which doesn’t require precision. I have a Ryobi bench sander and it’s a complete waste of time. Same with the chop saw I unused to have. It was basically impossible to get flush miters from it no matter how much you adjusted it - the tolerances were just too low. My DeWalt table saw and Chop saw don’t have the same issues. They cut sub-mm precision on day one and still do years later. The table saw in particular is technically a worksite saw, buy you can use it to build cabinets with the right blade.
On top of Ryobi tools, when my Dyson cordless vac battery stopped holding a charge, I bought a Ryobi -> Dyson adapter, and now my Dyson vacuum also uses Ryobi batteries. Wife was really impressed with it because you can just swap out a new battery and keep on vacuuming. Also the vacuum actually make use of that battery way more than any of the actual power tools I have.
That’s because the batteries have become the printer ink of the tool world. They’re f’n expensive.
If you buy into a product system it makes no sense to have different batteries that don’t fit all the tools. If you keep the batteries all the same then you can be charging one or two sets vs having to buy extra sets and charger multiplied by the different tool makers.
I have one of the manufacturers shown in the image, and after I got a kit that had a charger, tool, and extra batteries included I got hooked in because they sell tools without batteries, but I have extra! So I bought same maker. The tools are all pretty good, so not much difference between makers, but that’s one way they hook you.
The batteries are actually really simple. The best thing you can do to increase efficiency and save money is learn to replace the cells. You can get higher quality lithium cells than the batteries come with if they start to fail for way cheaper than you’d expect. The boards have like 12 circuits, and if you can’t fix them you can buy them for a few bucks.
I’ve done that on older battery packs. It’s a PITA because many packs are sealed, not screwed together, and you have to physically cut them apart to get to the batteries within for replacement. And assemble the batteries, which are often soldered in order. Then you gotta figure out how to reassemble the whole thing in a way that it won’t crack apart again. Doable, but definitely not for everyone.
The best thing you can do to increase efficiency and save money is learn to replace the cells.
As long as they didn’t design the BMS to brick itself when you disconnect the cells, like future motion did with the One Wheel, allegedly.
This is the way and how they get everyone hooked. My husband was -this close- to buying a badly reviewed lawn mower all because he had 3 batteries from the same brand. Two hardware store employees talked him out of it even though it meant my husband walked away with a cheaper brand, bless them.
Good to hear there’s honest people out there, and your husband listened to them, even if it means taking the hit on battery convenience.
Ridgid tools has a lifetime warranty, and that extends to batteries!
Project Farm on YouTube has great tests and reviews of products like this. Fully recommend his channel if you are in the market to buy tools or tool adjacent products.
Fuck yeah. Project Farm rules! He’s like Bob Ross for me. I just chill and watch tool-science happen.
