i wonder if this is correlated with the loneliness increase / the loneliness gap. if you’re a guy, lonely, prone to depression, in a crumbling post-capitalist society that’s getting more malignant by the day…how much will to live can you have
quick question, how is this any different for women?
Men and women seem to make friends differently. Men have more of a tendency to make friends through work. The change in work culture can cause these to collapse more easily. It’s particularly harsh at retirement. They not only lose their day-to-day reason to go on, but the friendship net that should help them.
By comparison, women tend to make friends independently of work. This makes their friendships more tolerant to changing jobs, or leaving work. Women also seem to be better at maintaining friendships at a distance.
Lastly, there is the (slightly controversial) glass floor. It’s the inverse of the glass ceiling. Both men and women have a bias to help women in distress over men. This makes it a lot more likely that someone will step in to help, before the downward spiral gets too deep. This is partially why men make up a large proportion of the homeless.
I’m pretty surprised by the friend-making info you shared. Do you have a source? I’d like to read more.
In terms of making friend stats I don’t know of any study’s but I do find it extremely believable from my life. My dad is probably the only man I know of to have a friend group and even then it’s just him and one other guy. Meanwhile I walk around and see women walking around exclusively in groups. I suppose it really doesn’t help that in the place I’m from socializing with coworkers is considered lazy and generally shushed.
deleted by creator
To live? Not much. To riot? Plenty.
This is the energy I wish everyone carried.
I want to kill myself because I hate myself, not because of capitalism. This kind of doomer shit doesn’t fucking help anyone. The absolute hopeless outlook of people on social media is pathological at this point.
You’re all loved. You’re valid. We’re not gonna let anyone murder you en masse. Things will get better. It might be slower than we’d like at times, but nobody has been able to stop progress yet.
They talk about a few causes, but this is the gist of it for anyone who doesn’t want to click:
Researchers cited the pandemic as the biggest factor in the widening gender gap; it took a heavier toll on men. Unintentional injuries and poisonings (mostly drug overdoses), accidents and suicide were other contributors.
Still is, men are still dying more from Covid and in excess deaths from related conditions that are elevated like heart attacks and strokes.
The declining cd4 and cd8 cell counts however will strike men and women equally over time.
Men trend more conservative than women overall (6 in 10 committed conservatives are men - pew) so more of them probably fell for the disinformation and denialism during the pandemic. Yes, we know that Republicans died more from COVID, to the tune of 15% more excess deaths.
That’s because in addition to the disinformation, many men also have to do the macho thing: https://youtu.be/1chYhsp3NRw
I forgot that suicide was super macho.
The fact that so many men are dying young should be it’s own issue, full stop. There is no reason to try to start a competition over it, or to try to force the topic to change to something else. This IS important, and it should be treated as such. Gain some empathy.
Did women get the rights to vote and wear pants just because they secretly wanted to? No. They fought against the standards of the time, and they had support from other groups. They didn’t have that support just because of their genetics, but also because other people had some goddamned empathy. We need to move past the “fuck you, I got mine” as a society if we EVER want things to be good overall. Nothing really excludes you from doing that, at least not if you actually care about others. I don’t even really care if someone has a damned disco ball down there, it’s horrible that people feel the NEED to live in a way that cuts their life short.
If you hear that a large group of people is dying young, the correct response is to figure out why, and solve it. The correct response is not to turn it into a competition or to blame the people who died so young. The correct response is to try to find a solution, and to possibly literally save lives. You are a bad person if you are happily ok with this going on. If you hate half of the population so badly that you don’t care about their death, you have no business telling that population how to live or how to be happy.
It’s tragic really. Imo, this is yet another situation where tradition and societal pressures kill people. Don’t be miserable to try to make dead people happy. Dead people who cared so little, that they didn’t put anything in place to help you in the future. Dead people who only cared about what they personally experienced during their time on earth. Dead people who had a very large hand in causing most of the pain that these people are feeling today.
Dudes reading this, I know it might be difficult depending on where you are, but please check up on your friends. Don’t tease them when they open up about serious things, and please listen to them talking about things they love. Change starts with you, and it starts with me. We can make a new future, and we don’t have to keep trying to please the people who will never see it.
Try to not be too hard on yourself, you’re probably doing the best that you can. Your best might “look like” 20% one day, and 80% the next, but it will still be YOUR 100%. You are only human, and no one is perfect. Please keep up the hobbies that you love, and always look towards better and brighter things. Some days that might be looking forwards to Friday, and other days that might be discovering a new passion. Love unconditionally, and build yourself and others up relentlessly. The odds that you specifically exist are so miniscule that it could almost be considered a miracle.
Even if it might not feel like it today, you are important. You have value. No one else out there has your exact combination of attributes, and only you can fill that role. Even if you’re in your 50’s, you can still pursue your passions and dreams. Many of the people who poop on your ambitions are people who regret not fulfilling their own. Don’t listen to angry people for live advice, as their methods are the best way to stay angry.
Please keep doing your best, and best wishes to y’all. It’s tough out there and I can’t imagine how tough it would feel to go at it alone. Strive for a better tomorrow, and never give up. Giving up is the only way to guarantee that this continues.
The fact that so many men are dying young should be it’s own issue, full stop. There is no reason to try to start a competition over it, or to try to force the topic to change to something else. This IS important, and it should be treated as such.
Did women get the rights to vote and wear pants just because they secretly wanted to? No.
Sorry, couldn’t resist.
Tbh I only mentioned it because I saw other comments trying to turn the post into yet another game “who has it worse” or “who can we blame so we don’t have to put any effort into fixing it”.
I also saw some toxic comments stating that men should just pull themselves out of it. I brought up the rights situation because it was another scenario that required more than just one group of people to make any proper change. We’ve done it before, why not again?
Expecting a group that is already struggling with life to suddenly magic themselves better is unrealistic at best. So, I tried to remind people that working together would be better.
You’re fine, it was overly verbose for my taste/consumption, but informative. When I see that much verbosity I’m suspect that it’s actually just a ChatGPT-type generated text/comment.
To the point, I was just friendly teasing, by emphasizing via italics, the fact that you were talking about something that shouldn’t be done, and then actually doing the thing you said you shouldn’t be doing, all in the same comment.
It’s all good! I wanted to make sure that I clarified just in case
Fair enough. Sincerely, no insult was meant (unless you really were using ChatGPT, then in that case “fuck you!” >:p ).
Competition? What do women have to do with this? Who is happily ok with this going on? Who are you talking to?
deleted by creator
That’s fine. My job as a man is to die first. Is that toxic masculinity? Yes. Is it stupid? Also yes. But I’d rather die on my lawnmower than acknowledge feelings. I will go out 6 years early like a man.
I will work 12hr days and sacrifice my health for my family. Toxic maybe, but my duty as a man.
I’ll eat that 12oz sirloin and wash it down with beer and whiskey every night. Just so someone doesn’t call me gay. Doesn’t matter how many dudes I fuck in the ass!
Get that umbrella away from me faaaag.
deleted by creator
Wow
You know I really question how many children are gonna grow up in the world basically fatherless, or with an absent father, because there’s this idea that the man has to be the one sacking everything they have in order to “put food on the table”. Gone for most of the day, devoid of energy when they come home, meat on the chopping block. I wonder how many kids would pick a better house, brand name foods, more toys, over more time spent with their dad.
deleted by creator
It’s telling that your first reaction is to joke about the issue. Imagine someone talking about wage gaps and people making a joke about women.
deleted by creator
That’s what they get for sacrificing their educations and careers to have children.
You cant say with certainty that that is the cause because there are many other numerous factors that can cause this
joe rogan is an idiot though
deleted by creator
Obvious joke is obvious lol
Does this mean that I can also make jokes about the massive gaps in other situations against women?
There are way more male than female politicians: Maybe if you stop bickering about emotional bullshit you’d be liked and voted for.
There are way more men than women in the tech sector: I mean hey women know how to make a good dish and men know how to code a good porn site.
There are more men holding executive positions in public companies: Listen, that’s on you if your work goes to shit for a week every month.
I could go on but you get the idea. Is that OK?
It’s punching down. You can make jokes like that and nobody is going to punish you for it but they will think you’re a jackass.
That’s a convenient excuse to be an asshole to half the population while running interference for the other.
What’s good for the goose is good for the gander
Makes sense I guess but it still feels unfair. Like people can make jokes about men who are suicidal and overdosing but you can’t make jokes about women’s stereotypes?
To me it should be one or the other
1- You can make whatever jokes about any protected class or minority
2- You can’t ever make jokes at the expense of a protected class regardless of how privileged they are
I mean I would definitely consider it in poor taste if a woman started making tone deaf jokes about male suicide rates. You get a lot more leeway when making fun of a group you are a part of. You combine that with the general assumption that everyone on the internet is male until proven otherwise, and yeah in this kind of forum it’s much more acceptable to make jokes at the expense of men than women.
There’s also a bit of a disparity in the examples you gave. The idea that men die earlier because they take medical advice from Joe Rogan is obviously not made in sincerity. The overwhelming majority of men have never listened to Joe Rogan and besides a few high profile examples I don’t think he actually gives that much medical advice. Though it would be harmful if people genuinely believed this was true, it doesn’t seem likely that anyone would.
On the other hand, Women being worse workers due to emotions or their periods or whatever is something a lot of people genuinely believe. In some circles those statements wouldn’t be considered jokes but rather serious opinions. Repeating those things, even if you don’t personally believe then, reinforces the ideas and is clearly harmful to women.
A similarly offensive “joke” at men’s expense would be something like “men die earlier because they’re too stupid to see a doctor”. This would be a bad joke, because it’s taking something which is basically true, men don’t see doctors as frequently, and tying it to a real and harmful stereotype, men are dumber than women.
You’re right, the OP wasn’t serious. But same as with misogynistic jokes, a lot of people could believe the Joe Rogan thing. I mean he does like carnivore diets, he puts vaccine skeptic people on his show, he took Ivermectin, and there is likely some other dumb shit he spews that would be harmful. I could easily see someone believing that he was a part of if not a big cause of male deaths in during the pandemic if you’ve not read the article.
The examples I gave were intentionally bad to show the difference in reaction in this community. But TBH, I see now that the reaction is not as one sided as I saw in the first place. Still fucked up though.
No one is stopping you from doing either one. OHHHH you just don’t want the consequences. It’s Not about personal responsibility or choice. I see now.
I’m saying this about myself bro what the fuck are you talking about? I’m saying other people should follow one or the other.
No lie you sound like ChatGPT 0.1 trained on tumblr lmao.
If that’s what you think a joke is maybe give up on trying for a comedy career.
No, it’s not okay. My parents didn’t have me to be your f*cking ‘Chef.’ Learn to cook a decent meal for yourself a**hole.
deleted by creator
Has anybody considered that maybe we don’t want to live longer?
My entire life, I feel like my only value as a person has been to provide financial benefit to others. There is no passion. There is only obligation.
I’ve met those obligations. Those obligations required a whole lot of struggle and doing whatever was necessary with no regard to my physical or mental well-being. If at any time I tried to take pause and do something for myself, I was considered loathsome and…favorite zeitgeist buzzword, toxic. Only when I returned to giving all of myself to others was there any tolerance of my existence.
Now in my fifties, I’m tired. I don’t mean I’m I need a nap tired. I mean it at an existential level.
I refuse to spend my remaining years in doctors offices as they systemically extract every remaining dollar I’ve got while telling me I’m a terrible person for not living a perfectly physical life. I’ll choose the early exit and a nice clean estate to leave to my daughter.
When my time comes, I will go quietly into that cold dark void, and I will do so enthusiastically. I see no value in prolonging the inevitable merely for the benefit of others. Let me have this one small thing
I’m so sorry to read this. It must be ok to do stuff for yourself, anybody that tells you no is the one being toxic. As they say in fight club, you are not defined by your job. Especially in this time of AI and extreme automation, we must normalise that not having a job, or not living for your job, doesn’t mean you are worthless. This is valid for women as well, btw.
It sounds like you have personal issues that go beyond aging
It’s not personal issues, it’s patriarchal issues. Just about every guy I know past a certain age, myself included, feel the burn from this. You are expected to just give give give and anytime you have needs, including some damn rest, you are looked down on for it and marginalized. You don’t see how much of a dog shit deal this is until you burn out.
Oh good. Another article about men struggling with X. This certainly means that help is coming, right? Right guys?
The help: “Remember guys, it’s okay to not be plagued by X”
It’s ok to be weak without support structures, you’ll be fine. It’s ok to not have friends, making friends is hard, 15% of the male population having no close friends is something you can work past, you’ll be fine. It’s ok to have mental health problems, despite there not being any help or support for them, it’s ok to let them take over your life from time to time, lonely men’s bills pay themselves, right?
But you’re men, you’re meant to be strong, and stoic, and nothing is meant to phase you emotionally. You’re allowed to cry, just don’t be pathetic looking when you do it. Cry like a fucking man.
Another article you don’t want to mention to someone else on account of being shamed for acknowledging men have problems at all 😃
It’s not phrased as how this is actually a women’s issue, so no.
I wish the men in my life would visit a doctor, get an annual check up, and take more preventative measures protecting their health.
Sounds expensive
Only in the US.
oh.
Other countries pay for it in high taxes. You pay for it somehow.
Edit:
Every tiny bit of interaction with the medical system in the US costs a multitude of what the same interaction costs in other countries.
There’s a reason why “international medical insurance” for say European travelers excludes the US by default. And if it includes US, it costs 4-10 times as much.
We have the tax money already in the US, we just dump most of it into the MI complex.
Probably
You pay more for it in the US anyway, and don’t necessarily have anything to show for it.
It’s just lose/lose for the US people.
We pay plenty in taxes to cover healthcare already. It’s just wasted on a bloated military budget. That and lobbyists prevent any changes that would negatively impact the healthcare industry’s bottom line.
You’re right, I pay 5-10x as much out of my income 😀
I’m blessed to have good health/dental insurance and I guarantee you I make sure I get my money’s worth from it. I get my annual physicals, my required pokings and proddings, etc.
Maybe you should talk to them first instead of wishing for them to pay for help not involving you.
You’re victim blaming
It’s a lot cheaper for women to act like adults and stop treating them like utter dog shit.
You wanna throw in blaming immigrants too? It’s right there, easy pickings. C’mon, you know you want to.
It feels like if the issue involves men it is not considered important. Boys struggle in school more now but only girls get attention, young men die to violence more, middle aged men die to suicide more, etc.
As a man, I’m okay with this. Take care of others, first. I have been afforded a myriad of privileges simply because my genitals are external. We could do with less men, honestly. I know a lot of misogynistic assholes and the world would have been better if they’d been aborted or castrated.
Correct thing to do is treat everyone equally, not to change the unfair advantage into a disadvantage. Thats not equality.
Take care of everyone.
Sounds like you have some problems to work out
gr8 b8 m8
So I’ll be honest and say I have no want to prolong my life any longer than I absolutely have to. I have a myriad of mental issues, no plans to start or have a family and in general very little want to live another 50ish years.
I think that’s not uncommon in a lot of men either. There’s very little incentive to make it that long anymore. I’ll be working till the day I die and some poor choices in my life up to this point have put a significant damper on what’s left.
no plans to start or have a family
Do you want to start/have a family? Society seems to pressure people into the mindset of wanting to “start a family”, but many people don’t actually want to, and that’s fine too.
Nope, and while that’s a fine choice to make, it still leaves me pretty much alone for the remainder of my life.
I don’t like making friends, nor am I good at it, and whenever I do manage to make one it fades away extremely fast no matter the effort I put in. Which makes it very clear it’s a me problem, so I just stopped trying.
deleted by creator
100% with you on opioids being a leading cause.
To your 2nd point: in pretty much all drug abuse/addiction, men are more likely to abuse or become dependent, and they tend to use higher amounts on average.
The addiction rates of legally prescribed opioids is surprisingly small. The problem was pill mills and diversion to the secondary market. People who are looking to get high tend to have a very large chance of becoming addicted. If anything the pendulum has cut people on both sides. First they had pill mills and pills flooded the streets. Then they basically stopped almost all prescriptions and then you had everyone all the sudden scrambling for pills, real pills evaporated quickly. Fentanly 30s started flooding the streets and then just fentanyl powder sold as H, because why pay more for a pill if it’s the same stuff.
That’s weird. Well, I’m gonna go catch a speeding bullet with my teeth, wish me luck!
Good luck, we’re all counting on you.
One of the factors where feminists don’t insist on equality…
deleted by creator
You seem like a very angry person. You should probably stop calling people ‘tards’ and ‘pussies’ while you advocate for for mental health and against sexism but I would first work on that near homicidal rage you seem to be harboring.
deleted by creator
I’m a bit concerned about using the “gender gap” term. As in, I wonder if it’s going to get adopted by misogynists to pit women’s suffering (gender pay gap) against men’s suffering (gender lifespan gap).
It is certainly telling that your first reaction isn’t about the real subject of the study.
Maybe you’re right, I’m sorry. It was just a first thought, and I’m trying to put thoughts out there on Lemmy less sensors to get convos going. Maybe this was an inappropriate one though and I can certainly choose better choices moving forward!
Even comparing the two issues that you brought up is ridiculous to me. Issue 1, women make slightly less in some situations for some jobs. Issue 2, men die earlier than women. These two issues are not even in the same realm of seriousness and urgency to solve.
I’d stop worrying about misogyny and start with some reflection on your own misandrist values.
Fucking hell, this pisses me off.
Lol, right? It would be funny if it weren’t so depressingly common a response.
“Something bad is happening to men”
“I think we should focus on how that affects women.”
Exactly. It’s like if your good friend came to you and told you they have cancer then you respond by saying, “oh that’s nice, I sat wrong and my leg fell asleep, shouldn’t you be caring about my leg???”
They’ll do that either way.
That’s sad. Sigh.
