The other day, my parents asked me (22M) if there were any women that I find attractive (I guess because they’re paranoid about me being gay lol) and I told them yes, there’s a fair number of women that I’ve seen in public that I’ve found attractive.
They asked me, “Do you talk to any of them?” and I said “No??? It’s inappropriate to approach women in public unless you have business with them.”
I told them that it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman he doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers—dating apps, hobby groups, meeting friends of friends, etc. In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment.
My parents told me that I’m being ridiculous and making excuses because I’m nervous. They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner. I told them that times have changed and this is disrespectful and potentially predatory behavior along the lines of unsolicited flirting and catcalling. Approaching women is a violation of their personal space and could make them feel very uncomfortable, especially if they feel like they don’t have an easy way out.
My parents are almost 60 and they are very conservative, so they don’t exactly follow progressive discourse, and I feel like they’re super out of touch on this as a result. Particularly, my mom tends to strike up conversations with other women in public, and she’s skeptical when I tell her that I can’t do the same thing because I’m a man and would be viewed as a potential predator.
But I also don’t get out much, which makes me second-guess how distorted my understanding of the social world is from reality. My parents are like a broken clock, and sometimes they DO have a point about something despite 90% of their opinions being insane. Maybe there is a more nuanced reality that I’m not picking up on.
So I wanted to ask here. Are my parents out of touch? Am I out of touch? Are we both wrong? I want to know your opinion.
Human existence is becoming more and more controlled as we lose our autonomy. And either waste our time broken alone or slaving away at a job that doesn’t benefit us. Other countries have things like third spaces and culture unlike the United States which has no culture. We don’t have the time or the money for culture. So what I’m trying to say is you have to make time to have genuine experiences doing things you like to do in order to stumble upon someone and have a casual conversation. Even these interactions are monetized via apps or whatever. Ad revenue. And these companies that get in between us and our natural experiences are also the same companies that blow up children in other countries. Other than that it is always running to or running from something. The Capitalist meddle too much in our lives. Everyone I know has had divorced parents. And now they want to replace us with artificial intelligence, which is really just our collective work and our human echo of recorded history and contribution. If they literally could just pick us up and bang our body parts together, they would. There is a reason why the birth rate is declining. Things are the way they are for good reasons. We are so separated from nature that we can’t feel each other’s vibes. I think the kids these days call it vibes. We are all just codependent and not self-actualized. We have lost our sovereignty, our autonomy, and now we just kind of are pushed and pulled in directions to the point where possibly we disassociate. You can go along with all this stuff for a while, but eventually it just snaps in your mind breaks. And they think they’re going to draft us to go fight another World War. Just throw me in a box. It’s just the same as the other box that I live in. I mean, what kind of future do our future children have? America is not a sexy place. Capitalism is not a sexy system. And now the whole world is capitalistic in nature. There are no alternatives anymore. and the Capitalist have gotten better and better at manipulating all of us. We don’t have the time or the money to even plan and fight back. I’m old enough now to see the patterns between the two political parties in the United States. And I will tell you, unless you’re kind of like a cult follower of your political party, they will just disappoint you and miss the mark by a mile. They don’t work for us. They work for the shareholders. So all that kids have to deal with these days. All these elements, even though they might not acknowledge them, they play a role in mating rituals. You shouldn’t have to run up to pretty women to get them to talk to you, or vice-inversal. Every good experience I have had has been through some form of leisure. The word I can think of that reminds me of the current state of things is cringe or icky. Picking up on people’s body language. Things that are subtle that take time to grow like a garden. Building relationships, maintaining those relationships, having meaningful conversation. And when trust is built, maybe let loose. I don’t know man, it just gets harder. And then you stop caring. Do you want hope? Or the truth?Your parents sold you out and their only concern is if you’re gay.
First, they need to find better things to worry about. pressing this is exactly how you end up with regrettable relationships. Second, ignore the gender. Treat women like people. If a situation comes up, like someone makes a scene at the front of a line you are both in, strike up a conversation about that. See where it goes. Lasting things occur organically. That being said, “she’s hot and I want to be inside her” is not a good enough reason to strike up a conversation with someone. Appreciate the sight but don’t try to capitalize on it.
Not putting some special stigma on it makes it less uncomfortable for both of you, and perhaps somewhat ironically, a little more likely that you do eventually get to be inside of her.
It is an important skill and confidence booster to approach people in general in public. If you are uncomfortable with women, then start with men.
If that is still uncomfortable, then that means you are uncomfortable to talking with strangers in general. Unfortunately, experience is the only way to combat this. Start small with chit chat in lines, compliment people on their shoes, etc.
Instructions unclear, now paying for a gay wedding.
I think you have a point, but also you’ve cranked that point to 11. Possibly 12.
Like yes, women can be really infuriated by how often they get hit on. I know the main reason my wife wanted a stereotypical wedding ring with a single diamond was that “it’ll keep the flies away”
But also… people interact with you in public. It’s like… a property of public spaces. Indeed talking to my wife in a public space is how we met.
The way you make it sound from your description would be that asking some woman directions would be a social fopah. Hell, where does just “having a conversation” land for you then? If you leave without asking for a number, is it different?
There’s a difference between idle chit chat and approaching like Johnny Bravo.
Faux pas, hehe never seen it as fopah
?huh? there’s no x in foh pa. “fox paws” pls be serious sir
Im sorry, im just a goose.
I gave up because I was typing on my phone.
Look at it this way, it’s the same as approaching someone in public to make a friend. Obviously, that’s not inappropriate. It’s only inappropriate if you’re treating it differently (which you shouldn’t be).
How many friends have you made cold approaching people on the street or in shops like that?
Do people often react by treating you with intense suspicion? Ngl, overly chatty/friendly strangers freak me the fuck out.
I think you should just make a habit of talking to people around you. You’re kind of putting human interaction on a pedestal and that’s just going to make you overthink things.
First of all, you need to understand it’s not some pre-planned thing. You should be making a point to go out to do things you like doing - not going out with the explicit agenda of just talking to people. That’s why I think the term “cold approach” is loaded, and full of shit–It inaccurately makes it sound like something negative and unnatural–In actuality you’ve done it many times before without thinking about it.
Seems you’ve gone deep into this analysis, of which none of it is actually relevant though, because you’re not talking about the root cause of your feelings. Which is that you have social anxiety.
Is this something people actually do? I’ve only made friends through shared activities, mostly class, and by meeting friends of friends.
Woman here: I’m not annoyed if a person I don’t know talks to me, as long as a) they don’t interrupt something I’m doing to have conversation and b) they read my body language and fuck off again the moment it’s clear I’m not interested. But asking me questions when I have my headphones in to talk about inane shit while I roll my eyes? Nah.
It’s pretty clear what the consensus is here. Yes, talk with women. You can even (politely) hit on women you fancy. Based on your statement about yourself it’s unlikely you would be pushy and threatening if she said no, but still, just understand when to stop.
Next question is how to get there from where you are. You’re scared you would be seen as a threat, harassing women just by talking to them out of the blue. So you doubtless have little experience talking with women. That’s where you are.
I see two possible paths to take. Which one is right depends on why you feel that way. If it’s an emotional issue, like if you (for instance) start shaking and sweating at the thought of walking up to a woman and introducing yourself, then maybe start by talking with a therapist. They can be really helpful. On the other hand if you are just nervous because you don’t know how to talk with a woman then look into learning how to make small talk. It’s actually a skill. It’s something you can learn. And once you have learned it and practiced it enough that you are comfortable with it, then approaching and talking with a woman is just about starting and having a conversation. You can even practice with guys if it makes you more comfortable. A quick google search produces a bunch of good ideas on how to start.
Now you have homework. Learn how to carry a conversation. Learn to make people feel comfortable around you. Learn to actually be interested in other people. It shows and it makes a difference.
EDIT: In a reply to another comment you mentioned severe violence in your childhood and the resultant fear as a major deterrent in approaching people. That’s definitely something to see a therapist about. You can work through stuff like that in time. And you’ll be amazed how much more free you feel once you have.
If they make eye contact and smile you can chat them up. That’s the secret. They won’t smile or look at you if they don’t want you to talk to them.
Also, don’t confuse friendliness with anything else. 😅
Learning how to engage and socialize with people of both sexes is a necessary skill. As long as your not being a toxic mess in front of them, you’re fine.
Yeah it’s super weird when people pick a very specific thing.
Like, imagine if someone wrote “I avoid approaching Brazilian Men With Beards in public because I believe it’s inappropriate. My parents say that it’s a necessary skill. Who is right?”
Speak to people like people. Stop thinking about what’s in their pants.
Got a bit tangled there bud and you’re horseshoeing
If you never approach women unless you have business with them then you’re treating them as things to have business with or romantic entanglements.
Try just treating us as people. You can have friends, you know.
I haven’t seen horseshoe used as a verb in… ever, but that still made sense.
I’m confused, what is horseshoe in this context?
but in this context: OP is working so hard to not treat their interactions with women as transactions that they only approach them when they have business with them…thus turning all interactions into transactions.
TIL, thanks!
As a guy, I can firmly say that I’ve never made a friend at the bank, grocery store, or coffee shop. If anyone started talking to me at one of these places, I would be very confused, and wonder why they are talking to me and what they are trying to get from me. And similarly, I have never struck up a conversation with anyone in these places - that would be super weird.
Of course, I see hot women in these places frequently, and I’d like to talk to them. Well, not really talk to them so much as fuck them. I’d like to say “hey, you have a really nice ass. Wanna bang one out in the bathroom right now?” Which is not unusual - this is just standard male sexuality. Hence why if you look on Grindr, a guy’s profile will be a picture of his asshole, and a common opener is “Hey, you in the McDonalds too? Wanna fuck in the bathroom right now?”
Unfortunately as a guy talking to a nice lady in the grocery store, that would be sexual harassment, and then I would be banned from that Safeway or whatever. So if I want to approach the girl with a nice ass, I need to have some kind of excuse - like, I dunno, what apples she’s looking at or whatever. But now it feels like I’m lying, because I don’t give a shit about apples - I just care about her nice ass.
No, no… It feels like lying because you are lying. Don’t do that. They are people and have friends and fuck and stuff like you. But at no point do they think you are a fuck dick and approach you to say that, because that is a än idiotic thing to do. Because you are a human in turn. Try to reflect on that. That both of you are human and want to fuck and at no point in that logic do any single one of you reduce the other person to a fuck object. Just learn that quick fix then you can approach them on equal terms again and actually get tail instead of whatever you are doing
No, no… It feels like lying because you are lying.
Yeah, that’s what I said.
But at no point do they think you are a fuck dick and approach you to say that
Right, that’s the problem. I wish they would. Again: see Grindr. But unfortunately, I’m not gay. Very annoying.
That both of you are human and want to fuck and at no point in that logic do any single one of you reduce the other person to a fuck object
Except that I never reduce anyone to being a fuck object. They appear in my awareness as a fuck object, with the potential for me to gain awareness of their deeper humanity later. Similarly, I do not fully appreciate the deep layers of the human experience within my cashier at McDonalds. From my point of view, they are a hamburger dispensing machine, up until the point where we form an emotional connection. And I can safely assume they are happy I see them this way, because they don’t want to see the deep layers of my humanity either - they want to see me as “faceless customer 447”, who they hand a bag to and then ignore as quickly as possible. If I went around fully appreciating the depth of the human soul in every person I looked at, I’d probably go crazy, and certainly would never get anything done.
Given that appreciating the true depth of the human soul is both time consuming and energy intensive, we must ask why we do it for any particular person. It must be because, for some particular person at some particular time, we have reason to put this time and energy in. And for random girl in the grocery store, the reason is: because she has a nice ass and I wanna fuck her. So we really just have the problem one step removed. I could be all “hey, those are some delicious looking apples.” And she’d be like “I hope so, but why the fuck are you talking to me? We’re in the grocery store, that’s weird.” And I’d say, “Because I’ve fully conceptualized the depth of your human experience and am fascinated by the minutiae of the way you’re picking your apples as just one more example of the beautiful fractal complexity of the nature of reality.” And she’d say “Okay, that’s even weirder. Are you high on mushrooms? Why are you talking to me instead of staring at the ants in the grass outside?” And of course, my honest answer must be “because you’ve got a nice ass and I wanna fuck you.”
Just learn that quick fix then you can approach them on equal terms again and actually get tail instead of whatever you are doing
I mean, “whatever I’m doing” is exactly what OP suggested in his OP. Meeting women at socially appropriate times and places (social gatherings, bars, concerts, events, etc); through my social networks and hobbies; and via online dating apps. In all of these cases, I either have an actual reason to talk to a stranger other than the fact that I want to fuck them, or else I can openly flirt with such a stranger under the assumption that this is expected and socially acceptable since the whole point of the venue is to find sexual/romantic partners. And I do this quite well. I just don’t hit on women in the grocery store.
You really, really, really need to see women as people-who-might-be-friends, and not exclusively as fuck objects.
I certainly do. I have a lot of female friends. They like me a lot. And I have several ongoing female fwbs. They also like me a lot. And I like and care about my female friends and partners a lot.
None of this changes the fact that literally the only thing I know and like about random grocery store girl is her nice ass, and this is the one and only real reason I would want to approach her. I’ve tried your suggestion before, and I have to say, it’s pretty fucked up. Because what you’re actually saying is “Your sexuality is wrong and bad, and you should be ashamed of it. You are a bad person for wanting to have sex.” So much for sex positivity and not kink shaming, lol. Turns out the most common kink of all - wanting to have sex with hot women - is shameful. Weird how that works.
The desire isn’t shameful dude. The fact you need to make it her problem is.
Where did I say I’m making it her problem?
Your entire commentary.
You see a woman you find sexually desirable about in public, doing normal, human things.
You approach her solely because you want to fuck her. You literally say this. You’re literally only interacting with her because you want to get your dick wet. Newsflash: People don’t want to fuck randos who come up to them at the grocery store. But because you wanted to throw in she now has to get out of the interaction - which I’m guessing is gonna be more than a bit fuckin’ fraught because you don’t seem to be grasping the fact that “I want to fuck it” is not a viable reason for annoying people in grocery stores - and manage your resultant rejection meltdown when all she wanted was some god damn potatoes.
You’ve made your desire her problem.
You have a 1st grade reading level
Please re-read my earlier comment. I was literally saying that I don’t approach women in grocery stores, because that would be weird. I was pushing back against another comment saying that not approaching women in grocery stores was objectifying them.
Edit: I just went to a grocery store. Had a pleasant conversation with the pharmacist at the counter while I picked up my prescription. Didn’t hit on her, because that would be weird.
I don’t mind if a man initiates a conversation with me. I don’t mind if anyone initiates a conversation with me. I only mind when I use words like, “no, thank you”, and they persist. Listen to the word NO.
I don’t get it. Do they do that? I haven’t seen this outside drunkards
Both of you are right. Both are wrong.
My advice, if you can safely take a shot, do it. Fortune favors the bold, not the stupid. Be polite, be flirty, pay attention to their body language, don’t try hard to turn a no into a yes, don’t worry about rejection.
Sure you can do dating apps or try meeting people through hobbies, but cold approaching people you like can turn out as good as it can be nerve wracking.
This is the answer. You can absolutely approach a woman if you are interested in her, just be respectful and polite about it. I’m a woman who has been both rudely approached and politely approached.
Scenario 1- bad experience: I was at a show seeing some metal bands I really liked. I was wearing a shirt with a local band that was big in the 80s 90s. The band is bit niche, not hugely known to the general public. So I’m minding my own business waiting to buy a drink, and this guy approaches me, points to my boobs and says “Do you even know who that band is?” I told him “yes, I’m a huge fan and have been listening to them for years.” That should have been the end of it, but then he tells me “oh I’m only asking since my niece has been wearing my old band shirts because they look cool”. Ok bud. There was no reason to tell me this. He was not approaching other men and asking them this same question. He was belittling me, in order to get me to talk to him. Which is a common tactic around men who don’t respect women as people (see Dennis Reynolds from it’s always sunny)
Scenario 2 - positive experience: Again, at a metal concert. I’m there with my husband and his bff. I was there to see the headliner, they were there to see the band before. My husband wasn’t feeling great all day, and his friend had to work early the next day, so they left and I stayed to watch the headlining band. I noticed this group of guys, especially one, sort of looking at me every once and a while, but I ignored it and watched the band. Once the show was over, I left and was waiting at the bus stop. The same group of guys approached me, and one that was looking at me during the show says “hi, my name is ____. I’m sorry to bother you, but I just wanted to introduce myself since I couldn’t help looking at you during the show. I don’t want to be a creep but I think you’re beautiful, would you like to grab a drink with me and my friends?” So I thanked him, and said I would have to pass, but hoped they all had a fun night". The they left, I got on the bus, felt safe and not bothered. This man complimented me in a respectful way and that was the end of it.
Hope that helps!
If you dont ask, the answer is automatically “No” .
“”“You miss 100% of the shots you don’t take” - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott" - ZoomBoingDing
Both of you are right and wrong, it’s not so black and white.
You absolutely can make friends, chat with people at the bus stop, strike up convos at bars, the local ski resort, bike park, etc. Friendships can naturally blossom into relationships (or remain friendships, which is healthy and natural too).
You can’t approach people and immediately ask them out, it feels weird and unappreciated (and that goes both ways, I’ve had a complete 180° role reversal and it was still weird and gross).
You’re young, you have plenty of time, and honestly the weirdest thing about all this is that your parents are worried you’re gay, like there’s something wrong with that. There’s barely any differences between genders, people overhyped the shit out of it in church, tbh.
Anyways, any% dating really doesn’t work, and I feel like your parents should know that. Don’t even try for dating, everyone can sense desperation. Just dgaf and focus on having fun and making friends. Love will naturally evolve out of good friendships.
Honestly, as a woman, I think it’s more about knowing when it’s appropriate to talk to people.
It’s okay if people hit me up at the park or the bar. It’s not okay when I’m doing my groceries in a hurry, or when I’m crossing the street 😆 and if you get “rejected” (sometimes it’s not a hard rejection, my social schedule is just already full), just take it well and go talk to someone else.
I don’t think this is rocket science, and apart from some teenagers whistling me from across the street (which I always pretend I can’t hear), almost all adults get this right.
When your parents say, “did you talk to any of them,” they mean did you strike up a conversation with a woman with no presumption of potential romantic outcome.
When you say it, it seems like you’re assuming there’s a potential for a romantic outcome in every conversation between heterosexual men and women.
Your goal should be to strike up a conversation with a woman about random topics of interest, including very shallow ones, with no expectation that you’re evaluating her as a potential mate, and she’s not evaluating you.
Yes, we’re all subject to intrusive thoughts so from time to time, you’ll fail at this goal and start thinking about a romantic path. That’s fine. Just acknowledge it to yourself and endeavor to do better.
It will probably take time and practice. Give yourself grace to try and fail and learn. You’ll know you’re succeeding when you realize you had a conversation with a woman without her gender being a consequential thought in your mind.
You are misusing “intrusive thoughts” much the same way people who like a clean house misuse “OCD”. Intrusive thoughts are not something you’d be ok doing were it not for social pressures. Intrusive thoughts are things you don’t want to think about, but pop into your head anyway, like steering your car into oncoming traffic, or punching your grandma.
I’m not sure I follow.
I’m starting from the assumption that OP genuinely wants to talk to women without being creepy (for lack of a better term), presuming that comes from his intrinsic association between “talking to a woman” and “attempting to establish a romantic relationship with that woman.”
That’s a thought that’s undesirable and presumably persistent. Sort of the definition of “intrusive.”
I’m aware that the pop psych understanding of the phrase is specifically about violent or violence associated thoughts but those are the ones more people have and that probably are more disturbing than annoying.
No it is also other thoughts you don’t want. Good luck with this hill though
