I’m sorry, why the fuck aren’t these street legal in more than half of the states? The article says something about safety, but these are street legal all over Europe where we have stronger safety regulations.
Also there’s something I can’t put my finger on about the journalist choosing a hero image of the van losing its cargo.
Probably because it’s not safe to drive them around giant pickups who can’t see over their hoods
Europe and Japan all have freight trucks driving around, so I don’t buy that. The fact that many states won’t allow these is American truck manufacturing protectionism, nothing more. It’s the same reason you can only get a 3/4 or 1 ton truck from Ford, Chevy, or Ram (chicken tax).
It’s all about the chicken tax.
Cab over engine freight trucks with excellent visibility, not jacked up chevys where your view of the ground starts 20 feet in front of you
And that’s precisely because the option isn’t readily available here. We can argue merits of different countries versus the US, but at the end of the day it is what it is unless something changes at the legislative level.
When say a contractor goes to purchase a work vehicle, the option is either a van, which have pathetic motors and hauling capabilities, or a pickup from one of the big 3 that can be outfitted with a utility body. Sometimes you can score one of those Isuzu cabovers, but they’re typically outfitted with a full sized box on the chassis, and they’re far and few between, and often more expensive. Vans are also stupid expensive, especially 4x4 models, because of the van life crowd. The options really are much more limited than other parts of the world, and I truly believe it’s to keep prices high and the money vacuum humming. Plus, you can find an older utility body truck for a fraction of the cost of a used van (I just did this 6 months ago; granted I’m in California, so my experience may not be the norm).
I ended up buying a Ram 2500 when looking for a work truck. I would’ve loved a 25/35 class van, but I need 4x4 (mountains, snow), and because of the premium those models fetch due to demand from the van life people, that wasn’t an option.
And I dunno about other people, but I know what’s in front of my truck at all times. It really isn’t that hard to mind your surroundings.
How’s that different from driving a car roughly the same size?
Just noting as a reference these trucks are 11ft long, a Miata is roughly 20% longer at 13ft.
Just for reference a Fiat 500 is roughly 9.75 feet long.
Maybe in the 70s, a modern 500 is listed at 11.6 ft
It looks like I got my info mixed up, thank you for the correction.
But then it’s these giant pickups which are unfit and should not be road legal.
And yet Smart cars are legal.
Smart cars had to pass US crash test standards and have the appropriate safety equipment. The kei trucks that you can currently import and use are 25+ years old and wouldn’t have even passed US standards back then. Your legs are the crumple zone in these things.
I assume that new ones would have a chance, but it’d be expensive for a manufacturer to modify and certify for the US market. Small cars haven’t sold well here, and the profit margins are slim.
Maybe with the recent size and price increases in autos here, well see some movement. I’d love a modern Honda kei to go with my element.
The crumple zone thing is a bit grey as the USA sells and allows trucks like the Isuzu NPR/Chevy Cab Over.
I get all that, but the individual I replied to only related small size to safety. I was merely pointing out that size isn’t a factor.
I appreciate your post, and agree completely! A Kei truck would satisfy all my requirements for a utility vehicle.
This is how we got in this mess, an arms race of trying to feel safe around larger and larger hunks of metal on the road. Americans just have to endanger everyone else for their own peace of mind.
I’m sorry, their problem is that the massive trucks are somehow in danger because they weren’t designed to handle being hit by a vehicle less than half its size?
What a ridiculous statement.
That’s not what they are saying at all. They’re saying small vehicles aren’t even safe in crashes with other small vehicles, let alone with bigger vehicles.
They took a street legal Smart ForTwo…
Then crashed it into a little electric truck and a golf cart…
And they want stuff to be as safe as the Smart car.
Ya. Everything’s expensive, so people buy the cheapest thing [with four wheels]. I don’t want folks on the lower end of the socioeconomic spectrum to think these are a safe option.
If(?) a ‘90s Honda sedan is safer but the Kei is new and looks cute, for the same price many will choose the less safe option.
Eight Californians die on our roads every day here and I can’t wait for some solutions. I really do empathize with everyone you readers care about (no oil companies, no just-for-funsies-truck manufacturers) - I hate the thought of crumpled and crushed human bodies.
Speed restrictions.
Kei trucks were designed for use in dense Japanese cities, which is why they also work in European cities. They are nimble but have a low top speed. You’re not going 70 mph around a street corner for instance.
It would work in places like NYC for the same reasons, but remember that most of the USA is suburban or rural. You need vehicles that are capable of going fast if you’re going to get on a highway.
A possible workaround is to have a separate class for these, like mopeds or scooters, which are road legal but are not highway legal.
That work around is what most states that explicitly legalized kei trucks have done, they can’t enter roads over 55mph. It’s a reasonable concession, you probably don’t want to take one over 50mph anyway.
Most places in the US are connected by 55 mph roads. I’d be hard-pressed to get anywhere but the city center in most places I’ve lived if I couldn’t use those roads.
Farm equipment and bikes use those roads all the time, and they go even slower, so I don’t think being able to keep up with traffic is a valid concern.
Note that I said over 55, rural connection roads should still be traversable since most are 55. Basically limits them from entering the interstate highways.
Southern California is entirely navigable by surface streets, but also too, there are plenty of vehicles going only 55 in the slow lanes, which is the speed limit for trucks anyway (though few pay attention to it). I have a '72 camper that can barely do 50, and I take it on the freeway several times a year.
I live in one of the most rural states in the country, where loads to haul are generally large and the posted speed limit on the highway is usually 75 mph, and the de facto highway speed is usually 5-10 mph above that. No truck that can barely push 70 is gonna keep up with that. On top of that, you’re dealing with ice and snow on the roads half the year, so you’ll need to be able to deal with that too.
thats honestly a problem that can be solved with a small turbocharger and a slightly higher msrp, its not like they are ever getting close to the price of one of the huge ones.
Protectionism.
Here in the states we have
legal corruptionlobbyists which the auto manufacturers pay to keep cheap vehicles from being used. And then the lawmakers claim safety concerns as the reason.They’re not really safe. They are generally front heavy, so there is a risk of rolling forward, no crumple zone safety stuff, more often than not the front suspension is under the seat and if that breaks it would shoot up into the cabin, and on top of everything they are pretty slow. They have more in common with an off road Polaris than a traditional truck, which is to be expected because they were mostly designed to be farm trucks. I’d much rather be in an older s10 than a kei truck in the event of a crash (and s10’s aren’t very safe). I think I lot of why they are so popular these days is because there aren’t really any light trucks anymore, and these are an alternative.
Traditionally they’ve been banned because they don’t do well in crash testing, as they don’t have crumple zones or airbags. Here’s some testing from 2010 by the insurance industry arguing that they shouldn’t be on highways.
They don’t meet the us safety standards. It could mean a lot of things like lacking 5mph bumpers, air bags, abs, etc.
Doesn’t mean they aren’t safe.
For the hero image, that could possibly just be an attempt at a “fun” way of showing that they can carry a lot by mean of hyperbole.
“Look at that tiny truck, it’s bursting with boxes!”
Different crash standards in US and Europe. Most companies don’t even bother getting cars tested (designed?) in both because the market demands are so different.
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European road safety regulations are significantly weaker than those in the US and Canada.
Pretty sure that’s not the case, had a little Google and it seems like I’m right, but I’m open to being corrected if I’m wrong or misunderstanding what you mean. Here’s evidence to support my claim:
https://etrr.springeropen.com/articles/10.1007/s12544-014-0131-7
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0001457518300034
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Chicken tax and EPA nuttery. It’s fucking bullshit.
Kei trucks have the same, if not slightly bigger/smaller, bed size as a modern F-150. But they’re basically the size of Honda Fits.
I’ve wanted one since I worked for USPS and learned to drive on the right side of a vehicle. My state does allow you to register them and drive them on the road, but alas, I cannot afford one. :(
Kei trucks only can carry like 800 pounds. I run a bar and regularly take my pickup truck, a 2500, to its bed capacity of roughly 3000 lbs. I’ve had it sitting low just in empties before. A Kei truck can’t even haul my motorcycle if it breaks down. Now someone who’s a full time contractor, would call that thing useless, a farmer might buy one instead of a John Deere gator or side by side. It’d be suitable for golf course maintenance.
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It was a backlash to auto manufacturers classifying everything as a truck to get around emissions and fuel economy standards. The fucking PT Cruiser was a “truck” according to Chrysler.
So they started classifying standards based on vehicle footprint with the idiotic hope that would make the manufacturers act better, but the manufacturers realized they could just make cars bigger every refresh cycle to stay ahead of CAFE.
Station wagons are classed as trucks, is why the PT Cruiser fell in there.
Yeah, a ranger would be ideal for a run around, could even tow my old camper, thing only weighs 3000 lbs. I’d just have to make more frequent beer runs of lesser amounts. At least a ranger can hold an old harley.
Yep, I’m a contractor, I would absolutely only own one to use for work if I had a big property, and it’d be groundskeeping. Just FYI though, Kei trucks are used as contractor/work trucks in Japan, as are Kei vans.
But your average person’s Home Depot trip isn’t going to be close to what a contractor would use. And, just like what currently happens, if your vehicle can’t handle an outlying circumstance, you either rent one that can or have the materials delivered.
So beyond work applications, and towing which most people don’t need the size vehicle they have for what they’re towing, modern pickup trucks are oversized and unnecessary for probably 95% of people.
ten sheets of 3/4 inch plywood is pushing the capacity of a Kei. That’s right in the middle of homeowner use.
I’m in the “hatchback car or tiny truck” market for my next car.
We desperately need smaller vehicles to counter the behemoth light trucks that are in the road today. Everything about these kei truck bans just scream corruption and incompetence from politicians to domestic auto manufacturers.
Americans just love being the biggest on the road. Bigger is better in their minds. Maybe we put an extra tax on very large vehicles.
We need to require special licenses for those behemoths.
I’d prefer they get banned entirely because there’s really no practical use for them that isn’t solved by some other commercial vehicle.
i’ve thought about that for high performance vehicles, but probably more important for very large vehicles. like a B/C license.
It’s not only Americans though. French car makers also sell big SUVs to everyone because it’s very important to have the biggest car ever when you bring back a small bag of groceries, or when you desperately need to be on top of the world in the traffic jams. I see those morons every day and it saddens me.
damn, i would have expected the french to have better taste in their vehicles
Nope, it’s over since the invention of SUVs and leasing cars. Nowadays everyone has a big car or an expensive car.
Does Citroen make SUV’s now? They must be smoooooooth
I’d love to see a comeback of vehicles like 1980s Toyota and Mazda pickups. Just a bit taller than sedans, good sized bed. I never understood the popularity of trucks that almost need a mini ladder to get into when they’re being used strictly in an urban or suburban setting.
Yeah it’s just people trying to show how big their penis is with a car
Or stop making fuel artificially inexpensive?
Tell me more
What ban?
Many US states have laws preventing people from registering these kei class trucks.
For example, https://dmv.ny.gov/registration/how-register-imported-vehicle
On that page
KEI-Class vehicles cannot be registered or titled in New York State. (Authority: Section 400-a of NYS VTL)
Is there a reason for the ban related to how the car is built or designed, or is it politics?
I think any person who has a hand in making those laws would say it’s for safety. Though I also think many people looking at it and comparing it to other vehicles that are allowed would call it politics/corruption/stupidity. I personally think it’s politics
Politics. If you can register a motorcycle or atv, there’s zero excuses for not being able to register a light truck like a kei truck. Honestly they’re basically industrial grade golf carts.
They stopped making Honda Fits (in North America) because there was no demand.
Do you consider a Honda Fit a light duty truck?
The topic of oversized vehicles is not limited to trucks.
In a post about small light duty trucks, and a comment about small light duty trucks, you’re pointing out that compact sedans are not popular. Would you like to point out some other true but off topic things? Most sedans are two wheel drive. SUVs are the most popular body style.
“No one is allowed to deviate at all in the slightest bit ever, to the obvious bigger topic!!!”
It’s entirely irrelevant to bring up one specific type of vehicle being cancelled because people didn’t like it, which can be for a shitload of different reasons beyond just size
I’ve wanted one of these for decades but the options are pay out the ass for import fees or buy a 30 year old model, neither fee great. Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us driving massive trucks and SUVs over realist vehicles
If these don’t meet road safety requirements then it won’t get better
The giant American trucks don’t meet American road standards…
Hate that my government is apparently dead set on all of us
driving massive trucks and SUVsspending thousands to money lenders, auto manufacturers, and dealerships over realist vehicles.Doubly so if those parties are campaign contributors. Always follow the money.
Reminder that due to the chicken tax, these vehicles have to be 25 years old before they can be imported.
The big problem is, these vehicles were built to 30 year old safety standards - no vehicle from the 1990’s (except maybe a SAAB, and even then they’re not strong enough anymore and will fail a small offset frontal) can compete with a modern car in safety requirements.
There is also the fact that these vehicles have been around for 25 years, and have that amount of age and wear on their platform - they won’t be as strong as they originally were off the production line.
no vehicle from the 1990’s (except maybe a SAAB, and even then they’re not strong enough anymore and will fail a small offset frontal) can compete with a modern car in safety requirements.
Americans keep building bigger trucks and raising speed limits, then bemoaning how small vehicles aren’t safe enough to survive an 80mph impact with a 10,000 pound vehicle.
You think these Keis are dangerous? Try riding a bike.
I’d love to ride a train to work. Play on my steam deck on the way home and not have to worry about getting stuck in traffic for hours. Visiting Washington DC and riding the metro everywhere ruined me, now I look at a five lane at road and say “This is bullshit!”.
Thank god someone said it. This comment makes the most sense of any of the comments I’ve read so far.
And if you get it from Japan it’s right hand drive so visibility of the incoming lane is crap as well…
Also, for Kei trucks specifically, cab over engine vehicles are unsafe in frontal collisions no matter what, even modern ones, that’s why there’s no regular passenger vehicle built like that anymore and it’s only heavier vehicles (like moving trucks) that have this setup, they don’t fall under the same safety regulations.
Uh oh, better ban them!
Way ahead of ya!
Map: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/kei-truck-legal-states
No recorded law: 28
Legal: 19
Illegal: 2
https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
State-Specific Legality of Kei Trucks: The permissibility of these compact, fuel-efficient vehicles varies across the U.S., largely due to differing safety and environmental standards.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in California? In the Golden State, Kei trucks can be driven on local roads, but not on freeways. This is due to the fact that many of these vehicles are not equipped with EPA-compliant engines for highway use. However, there are no restrictions on their use for off-road activities. Their off-road capabilities make them a popular choice for those in need of a compact work or recreational vehicle.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in Texas? In the Lone Star State, the situation is a bit different. Kei trucks are not street-legal due to the state’s stringent safety standards for passenger vehicles. These trucks often lack standard safety features such as airbags and seatbelts, which can make them less safe in an accident. However, there are exceptions to this rule. If the mini truck is used for agricultural purposes or has been modified to meet the state’s safety standards, it may be allowed on public roads. In these cases, the necessary permits and inspections are required. Laws Governing Kei Trucks in other States. The permissibility of Kei trucks varies greatly across the U.S. For instance, in Alabama, you can use mini trucks on any public roads except interstate highways. The speed limit for these vehicles is 25 mph.
Florida allows registered mini trucks to operate only on streets with a posted speed limit of 35 mph or less. In Louisiana, you can use mini trucks freely with a speed limit under 55 mph. North Carolina allows mini trucks to be licensed and used on all NC roads.
In Washington, mini trucks are street legal. Wyoming permits mini trucks on any roads except for interstate highways. It’s important to note that none of the 50 states allow mini trucks on interstate highways. This is due to safety reasons and the fact that most Kei trucks can only reach a maximum speed of 65 mph, which is lower than the speed limit on interstates.
My state did, otherwise I’d be driving one right now. A friend with a Subaru Sambar is being told hers should not have been allowed to be registered and is trying to fight it.
woulda been nice to know which state
for anyone else:
Map: https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/kei-truck-legal-states
No recorded law: 28
Legal: 19
Illegal: 2
https://keitruckconnect.com/us-states-you-can-drive-kei-trucks/
State-Specific Legality of Kei Trucks: The permissibility of these compact, fuel-efficient vehicles varies across the U.S., largely due to differing safety and environmental standards.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in California? In the Golden State, Kei trucks can be driven on local roads, but not on freeways. This is due to the fact that many of these vehicles are not equipped with EPA-compliant engines for highway use. However, there are no restrictions on their use for off-road activities. Their off-road capabilities make them a popular choice for those in need of a compact work or recreational vehicle.
Are Kei Trucks Legal in Texas? In the Lone Star State, the situation is a bit different. Kei trucks are not street-legal due to the state’s stringent safety standards for passenger vehicles. These trucks often lack standard safety features such as airbags and seatbelts, which can make them less safe in an accident. However, there are exceptions to this rule. If the mini truck is used for agricultural purposes or has been modified to meet the state’s safety standards, it may be allowed on public roads. In these cases, the necessary permits and inspections are required. Laws Governing Kei Trucks in other States. The permissibility of Kei trucks varies greatly across the U.S. For instance, in Alabama, you can use mini trucks on any public roads except interstate highways. The speed limit for these vehicles is 25 mph.
Florida allows registered mini trucks to operate only on streets with a posted speed limit of 35 mph or less. In Louisiana, you can use mini trucks freely with a speed limit under 55 mph. North Carolina allows mini trucks to be licensed and used on all NC roads.
In Washington, mini trucks are street legal. Wyoming permits mini trucks on any roads except for interstate highways. It’s important to note that none of the 50 states allow mini trucks on interstate highways. This is due to safety reasons and the fact that most Kei trucks can only reach a maximum speed of 65 mph, which is lower than the speed limit on interstates.
I think someone who tried to do that might just disappear in this day and age. Don’t ask gen-z, we won’t know.
What is the too small for road safety thing? That’s pure bullshit, right? Smart cars are legal, how can these not be?
Give us cheap EVs and small trucks god damnit!!!
It might be more about what vehicles share the road. SUVs and pickups tend to cause the majority of fatalities in crashes because their bumper height basically being non compatible with cars and vans and their larger blindspots… That design might not play particularly well with the Keis in crash situations.
But that being said SUVs and raised pickups are menaces to road safety across the board and we should be looking at phasing them out.
They don’t pass US federal crash tests, probably because of the lack of crumple zone, so they can’t be imported until they’re 25 years old. Which doesn’t make them any safer, but I guess rules are rules:
Because the trucks don’t meet Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards, they’re legal to import only 25 years after having been manufactured. Then, it’s up to each state to decide whether to allow them on public roads.
Besides taking way less space on the road or while parking, you’ll only have to lift your stuff half the way up to the RAM or something like it. I personally like not breaking my back.
smaller, cheaper
Just say better.
They are better vehicles and the ad campaigns for ‘bigger, more expensive’ vehicles are finally hitting their stupid wall.Now lets do SUVs next.
So people are tired of paying 60 to 90k for an f150 or a Dodge ram? You don’t say!
How’s my /keitruck subreddit doing? I got banned from reddit as a different username at the IP level so I have no clue. I was thinking about starting it again here on our own instance but it’s been a struggle with de-googlelizing my life at the moment. But maybe someone else has one already? Time to leave that rotten place behind.
I’d honestly love one of these, depending in if it’s powerful enough to haul a decently heavy load up a hill.
I woodwork as a hobby, and have been wanting an old truck for a while, but the used truck market is pretty insane right now. All I want is an old beater with a reliable engine and a standard sized bed that’s capable of hauling sheet goods (4ft wide) without hassle.
This would check those marks. If the price was right, I’d happily drive this little guy around.
Instead, the market is full of ridiculously sized pickups with tiny truck beds because either the cab is huge, or they waste so much space making the truck look “tough” that the beds shrink narrower than 4ft.
As long as I can get a small truck in a V6 so that I don’t stall out hauling something heavy like cement bags, I’m in.
Look into Telo trucks. Modern, electric, safe, small. I know they haven’t launched yet, but i have high hopes they get everyone rethinking their pickup choices.
A guy in a common group as me owns https://luckysminitrucks.com
If you are in the US, look into minivans, or cargo vans. They are not popular here, so you’re not paying the pretty tax on them, and most vans with the rear seats removed can easily fit 4x8 plywood in the back. A beater van with a strong engine should be a lot cheaper than a beater pickup truck.
Yeah, I used to borrow my parents van on occasion, but they got a newer model of the same van (Odyssey) that could no longer fit sheet goods.
Also was pretty awkward tying the trunk door on the occasions where I needed longer material, which I would be doing more of nowadays. And TBH, despite my best efforts to pad things and load materials gently, I did scrap up the interior a bit, which wouldn’t be a factor with a truck.
A work van might do, though. Those seem pretty huge.
I had a 2016 GMC Sierra. Cost $100 a week to take my son to daycare. Sold it and got a Sienna Hybrid and a classic truck for hauling shit. I hate all the technology in cars these days. My van tracks me and in the app it says “this feature can be disabled but the tracking will not stop” or to that affect. Garbage.
After you traded your Sierra for a Sienna, did you take a Siesta?
I too am fed up with all the data rape. Fuck off car companies, greedy assholes.
It’s not just FUD either, this shit is actively happening NOW: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html
Man, I always thought the bigger SUVs looked like those oversized clown shoes, but the size comparison picture does drive home just how much dead air is in them.
Because there’s a market for functional, minimalist vehicles that do a job and don’t require 8 or more years of payments. Trucks have become status symbols more often than not.
