I work with a person that went presented with a problem, works through it and arrives at the wrong solution. When I have them show me the steps they took, it seems like they interpret things incorrectly. This isn’t a language barrier, and it’s not like they aren’t reading what someone wrote.
For example, they are working on a product, and needed to wait until the intended recipients of the product were notified by an email that they were going to get it. the person that sent the email to the recipients then forwarded that notification email to this person and said “go ahead and send this to them.”
Most people would understand that they are being asked to send the product out. It’s a regular process for them.
So he resent the email. He also sent the product, but I’m having a hard time understanding why he thought he was supposed to re-send the email.
I’ve tried breaking tasks down into smaller steps, writing out the tasks, post-mortem discussion when something doesn’t go as planned. What other training or management tasks can I take? Or have I arrived at the “herding kittens” meme?
From the way this post is written, I think you don’t realize how vague your communication style is. Too many possible interpretations of what you said makes it hard to even follow the story you laid out.
Who emailed who about what?
How did someone resend an email that someone else sent?
Re-sending would mean the same coworker sent the email twice.
On rereading, I think you meant that one coworker sent an email to the client, then another coworker that you are having trouble with also sent the same email to the same client.
So, to answer your question, I think they arrive at a different conclusion because they see things differently. Anything that can be interpreted differently will be interpreted differently. The other co workers think they’re giving this person set values when in fact they’re handing them a set of variables and expecting only one result.
I’ll join the others here saying that it’s very unclear what you’re requesting, what your colleagues did, what they were supposed to do, and what actually happened.
It may serve you well to look inwards for a solution to your problem.
Vagueness was intentional.
In this case I was an observer, so my writing style didn’t affect the situation I had described. I’m also not the first to recognize this type of problem with the employee.
You don’t think your writing style affects your workplace? If you are indeed the manager, you are tasked, among other things, with establishing the culture of the team.
If the writing in the post is any indication of the level of writing and communication at work, OP needs to work on their communication skills.
Is he maybe just a really literal person and took the forwarded email with instructions “send THIS to them” as “send this email to them”, but then he knows his work responsibility is to send the product, hence why he sent both the product and the email?
Do you have an SOP or exact steps to follow written down in a very clear, concise manner (yes, even something as simple as “after employee A sends the email, employee A will notify employee B to send out the product by forwarding the customer email to employee B”; I’m talking reaaaallly literal steps here)?
Can you give other examples of times he’s messed up in a similar way?
Does he have poor reading comprehension? ADHD?
I train employees a lot in my current job and jobs prior and I’ve learned that everyone interprets things differently and learns at their own pace. Most times you can adapt to their style, but sometimes people are just mentally out to lunch 24/7 and not fit for the job.
Another example:
The product they were sending is only relevant to remote workers.
The product group they were to send it to consists of remote workers and in-office workers.
They are aware that the product they are sending is only for remote workers.
This isn’t the first time they have had to send something to only remote workers.
They sent it to all of them instead of only the remote workers.
While I concede that the instruction could have been worded better, they should have either known to send the product to the appropriate people or asked questions.
Others have said in this post that I need to improve my comms skills, but this person regularly mis-interprets things from everyone, including documentation and guides, and then executes without hesitation. So how do we fix the individual?
It sounds like this person isn’t remembering the procedures then, even when you’ve explained it to them and they’ve already done the task before (Or they’re just a lazy fuck that doesn’t care one way or the other and maybe never will). There is no “fixing” the individual, you need to correct their behavior while also giving them plenty of opportunity to get it right and with all the tools and guides they need readily available. How long have they been working in that position? Maybe they just need more time.
As others have stated, if the directions aren’t already in writing, you should either write them down for the employee or, better yet, make the employee write them down, then review it for accuracy. This should in theory help them commit the process to memory, plus now they have their own guide to refer to.
Another bonus (for you, not the employee) of getting the process in writing is that if/when this person messes up again, now you have something to point back to and say “Remember when we went over this and you wrote it down and I verified that your notes were correct? Did you follow those notes this time? If yes, why did (mess up) happen anyway? If no, why didn’t you follow the notes?” Make this person explain themselves, don’t just sit there and be mad and say nothing to them.
This could also be a case of weaponized incompetence/ learned helplessness. If they fuck up a lot, you stop giving them work, but they’re still there getting paid anyway, right? Now you’re just paying them to either stand around or do menial tasks and not what you actually hired them for.
Start documenting their fuck ups, and tell them you’re doing so. You’re better off having a paper trail to point to when you have to fire them.
Most helpful, thanks.
It may be that your comms skills are good enough for most people but not for this person. One option you have is to improve them even further so that it goes beyond being sufficient for the normal people, and also becomes sufficient for this person.
For example, I have never had my instructions misinterpreted. I am autistic. In my experience, both autistics and neurotypicals tend to interpret my instructions with zero difficulty.
I am saying this to indicate that it is possible to use language in a way that works even for the people who need extra precision.
In the scenario you described, the use of the word “this” in the “send this to them” instruction was a predictable failure point in the communication.
Eliminating that word from that communication would have prevented this issue.
If you want to change the individual, have them do significant working memory training. If you want to solve the problem, consider establishing and enforcing a higher level of disambiguity in office communications.
No SOP because no one else has trouble understanding this process. At the level they are at they shouldn’t need written steps for this and every other aspect of their job.
I’ve been suspecting adhd for a while but I’m not sure how to approach that topic.
Some people need structure. It’s not unreasonable to provide it to them.
Do not approach a coworker and suggest they may have a health condition. That is not your place.
Sounds like the instructions were unclear so the person implemented all possible interpretations in order to avoid any misinterpretation causing problems. If they were forwarded an email and told to send “this” to someone, I can easily see that being interpreted as the email itself. Especially if this wasn’t the first time your instructions were unclear and they got in trouble for not guessing the right interpretation. Being more clear and saying “the product” instead of just “this” might help or even saying the name of the product. Good communication is about being precise, but brief.
If people are always having to guess your intentions, then some are going to get it right and some won’t. Some will learn how you think and how to interpret your vague instructions and some won’t. But if you learn better communication skills to be more direct in your instructions and leave fewer things open to interpretation, then there won’t be any need for people to guess your intentions. Remember, no one else has the information in your head, only the information in your communication.
As an autistic person, I will say that the word “this” is one of my biggest stumbling blocks in communication.
I agree, but here is some more info:
Employee seems to misunderstand requests from most people and published documentation at a rate much higher than others.
Employee has had years to figure out how people communicate with them.
In this case I wasn’t the one that worded the request poorly, it was someone else. I have adapted to using lists when making requests, and avoiding vague statements, but I can’t expect everyone to adapt to this person and I can’t be there to translate everything for them.
Is that employee autistic? One of the things that management requires is learning to communicate with all types of people and help others communicate. After all, your job isn’t producing something, it’s making sure your employees that do the actual work are able to do their job effectively.
I’m just using autism as an example because I happen to be on the spectrum, though I’ve learned to mask well over the years. Autism has tons of advantages in the way we think. Great at analysis, great at handling emergencies, etc., but our communication style is a little different. We tend to need communication to be direct and precise because we analyze things too much sometimes. Problem is that because we’re so used to being misunderstood or misunderstanding people and getting into trouble for it and being scolded for asking clarifying questions because we “should just know what they meant”, that we often don’t ask the questions and try to interpret things in all the possible ways.
And maybe it’s not even at this job that they were scolded, they just are used to neurotypical people scolding them for the way they think, that they no longer even try to ask questions. So my advice is to make sure the person is not only able to ask questions, but is encouraged to do so if they need to. Make sure to be very positive when they do and make sure the other people they interact with are positive as well. It’s a very small accommodation that could help them thrive and end up being one of your best employees if given the right atmosphere.
Again, I’m using autism as an example because it’s a commonly misunderstood condition that is not a disease and not curable, nor should anyone try to cure it, it is just a different way of thinking and is a spectrum of various types of ways of thinking that people are often forced to mask and so is commonly undiagnosed or misdiagnosed. Heck, I didn’t figure it out until a few years ago and I’m in my mid-40s. But it took me decades to learn to effectively communicate without knowing why some people just couldn’t get me. Even now I tend to over-communicate as you can see from this wall of text.
But as a manager you should try to get to know your employees’ strengths and weaknesses, communication styles, etc., and help them to communicate more effectively with each other. It has helped me to be effective at coordinating people.
If they are it’s not something that’s been told to me.
I’m very aware that people have different skills and limitations and adjust accordingly. I have done a lot, including helping organize tasks, reviewing issues when they come up, setting goals, positive reinforcement, asking how they want me to change to help them further, suggesting learning opportunities, suggesting social interaction opportunities…
Let’s not assume I came to post this without first trying different techniques, researching topics on how to manage people like this, and reaching out to management peers for possible solutions. I’ve had a few upper management people that knew this person tell me “some people just don’t get it” and “they have possibly hit their peak”
I’m very aware that people have different skills and limitations and adjust accordingly. I have done a lot, including helping organize tasks, reviewing issues when they come up, setting goals, positive reinforcement, asking how they want me to change to help them further, suggesting learning opportunities, suggesting social interaction opportunities…
One thing you have not mentioned trying is encouraging others in the organization to replace the words “this” and “that” with the actual referent in their communications.
For example the email that said “send this to them”, could say “send the product to them”.
Disambiguating the words “this” and “that” in communication seem like a much more direct path to avoiding this problem than the steps you described.
Thanks, I will do that. Keep in mind that I presented a single situation. It also applies to things like following documentation steps, and coming up with steps on their own to reach a defined goal.
Ok, I was just assuming you were looking for advice, but if it’s just a vent post, that’s my bad.
I probably should have included that these were all great responses; just that I’ve tried them.
Your employee is autistic, and suffers from low working memory.
Increasing the employee’s working memory through targeted working memory training will help with this.
Unfortunately, you probably cannot order them to do this training, or even mention the deficit while staying within HR rules.
Employee has had years to figure out how people communicate with them.
Maybe your employee does have more difficulty understanding than the average person, but this is such a bullshit excuse.
Everyone communicates differently. What is obvious to someone may not be obvious to others. Some people need a little more precision in the instructions you give to them. I don’t see why it would be unreasonable to provide that.
I’m reminded of an interaction with my supervisor the other day…
Me: Hello. This case has <issue>. Am I ok to proceed with <issue> or does it need to be corrected first?
Supervisor: Have <Company name> figure it out.
<Company name> has literally thousands of employees so I have no idea why she said it like that.
Me: Uhh…do you want me to ask <Name of specific higher up person>?
Supervisor: No, have them figure it out.
Me: Who is them?
Supervisor: <Lower level assistant>.
For context, <Lower level assistant> usually asks us if they are ok to proceed, not the other way around.
Me: I don’t think they will know the answer. Who should I have them ask?
Supervisor: <Company name>
Me: ???
Supervisor: Have them ask <Name of a specific manager>
Me: Ok.
In this whole interaction, she was getting increasingly rude and irate with me for not being able to read her mind. If she would have just said she wanted <Name of a specific manager> to figure it out, she could have just told me to begin with instead of getting huffy and curt with me and unnecessarily prolonging the interaction.
Here’s another example…
Supervisor: Hey, do you want me to move X out of the way somewhere?
Me: Nah, I don’t mind it being there!
Supervisor: I don’t want X there.
Me: <Supervisor>, I am not a mind reader. If you want something, you have to tell me.
Sometimes what is obvious in your brain is not obvious to those around you.
I don’t think your supervisor is mis-communicating, I think they just don’t know what they want. But they want you to still choose correctly even though there is no correct answer. It’s like when my husband asks what I want for dinner and I tell him “I don’t know, you pick”, there’s definitely a right and wrong answer for his decision but I don’t know it until he chooses it! Yes I know how messed up that is. Anywho, god speed to you
Most people would understand
…and some people would not understand.
If you want that the other party understands, then you need to be specific.
if others were regularly coming to me with questions about my direction I would agree with you. In this case I was an outside observer to how the situation transpired, and the individual seems to run into this problem with me and others.
the individual seems to run into this problem with me and others
Of course he does. People are people. Some are this, others are that.
What is your question? Do you want to change the other person? It never works. You can only change your own part.
Might be a high functioning autist? If he got sent the notification email, he could interpret “go and send this” as what he is supposed to send, and thus the logic of shipping the product afterwards kicks in and he also sends that. Just my two cents as a fellow high functioning autist…
But then why did he also send the product?
Because the product was supposed to wait until the email was sent. Email sent -> no problem, send the product next.
Ah, so he was just following his set of the instructions. This situation is exactly why I teach students to always put some kind of noun after a “this,” so that it is clear what “this” refers to.
This is simple, practical advice that I can use when instructing coworkers. Thank you!
Thank you for validating my method! I am so grateful for my own English teachers that I’ve over a decade spreading their knowledge.
Thank you for pushing your students to do that.
It is awesome when they get there. My favorite thing is to see light bulbs go off in their heads. I thank you for the feedback: wish I could use these comments to prove to students why to listen to me.
Thank you! As an autistic person, I am serious in saying that your practice with your students is honestly the most helpful thing I’ve ever heard of a person doing for autistic people.
That is precisely what we most need: clear communication from others. With that, we can earn our own way. But we do need that.
Ahhh… You have no idea how awesome it feels to hear it’s helpful. Only some teenagers are ready to hear it.
Clear, precise written communication helps everyone, and I love that I get to spend my time helping the next generation share their ideas in effective ways.
I had an English teacher who made us write a 500 word essay every single day for the entire semester. My wrist still crackles when I rotate it, because of how bad the writer’s cramp was.
That was one of the best things any teacher ever did for me. I wish more people had pushed me that hard when I was young.
I love these stories so much! I had an English teacher who would take 10 points off for every “to be” verb you used in any assignment. Most people thought it was ridiculous, but I saw it as a challenge. I learned so much that year, I still refer to her as my Yoda. She actually convinced me to get back into the teaching game after a terrible first job that made me slip into the legal field for awhile.
ETA: Apologies, I feel my lack of reading comprehension on this one deeply.
intended recipients of the product
Do you mean “the customer”?
The way you communicate (at least in English) is needlessly convoluted.
You already know they interpret your instructions incorrectly. You admitted yourself that, that is the problem. The solution in my world would be to give better instructions.
Intended recipient of the product doesn’t have to mean customer. Could simply be sending something to a coworker or any number of options. The provided information seems completely understandable. It’s possible that what we are getting vs the person being told could be very different though.
Yeah, it’s vague on purpose. No, not customers.
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I think I work with this guy.
Are you saying you’re clueless or you work with the clueless guy?
Definitely the latter! 😁
Haha gotcha. I feel for you. It is so painful… I don’t get how no one above him sees it.
Have we started to get reddit style bait on lemmy now? There’s no way someone can communicate so poorly in this and multiple responses while blaming someone else for not understanding.
It’s pretty funny, I’ll give you that.
Though language is an effective means of communication, it’s not perfect.
To use an example, there was a meme about a literature professor quoting from a book and telling students what the author meant by mentioning the curtains being blue in a scene. As they go on and on about the melancholy and sadness the author was known to experience at the time, Samuel L Jackson busts in through the door and yells “The color was blue because the curtains were blue, motherfucker!”
Or am I remembering it wrong? Anyway, language is open to interpretation and as such, people will interpret it openly.
Maybe try and see if they are suffering mentally? Mental illness like depression can slow down brain processes.
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Saving this to see if there is an answer.
Side note : just my opinion, but some people will never understand basic logic.
