• hperrin@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Ah yes, the historically marginalized vulnerable community, the cisgenders. How can a community even hope to live in peace with only 98.5% of the population?

      • Hobbes_Dent@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        And I’m only, like, 98% joking about it also being the day I saw a headline on Lemmy about Wayland use overtaking X11.

        I mean, honesty, there has to be some legally standing harm having been done or be possible. By a fucking billionaire tech mogul guy to a foundational, open, and free part of the tech ecosystem who also relies on fundraising.

        Edit: on the other hand I’m waiting to be pounded by a reply about the logo being open source. Which it is. But you know ethics and tech and stuff.

      • TWeaK@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        It might not be worth challenging them, by the time it gets anywhere the current business will be gone. They always had little to no hope of paying off the $13bn loan Musk saddled the business with, now the business is worth less than the loan. Musk knows this, which is why he’s trialling all sorts of dodgy shit on the platform, such as this and also the API charges.

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I’ve said for some time now that as long as he allows deadnaming on his site, I’m going to deadname his site.

    • notabot@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      Probably not, but used with sufficient invective I think you could make people feel like they’ve been insulted with out actually doing so. ‘You blasted multicellular mammal! What have you done this time? What are you, bipedal or something? Eukaryote!’

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      She hates him more. When she changed her name, she changed her surname to her mother’s and had it put into the court record that she disowns her father. She could have just broken contact, waited for him to die and hoped she was included in the will, but he was such an awful father that she said, “fuck you and your billions of dollars.” Can you imagine how exceptionally bad a parent that would make him?

      • Underwaterbob@lemm.ee
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        7 months ago

        Not to play down how absolutely terrible I’m sure Musk is as a father, but her mum’s also loaded. That would certainly make the decision easier.

        • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Sure, her mom is loaded. But even ignoring the money, she wanted it known in a legal setting and on an official court transcript that she did not consider Elon Musk to be her father. That’s quite the statement.

    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      “Real man/woman” or something inherently derogatory towards everyone else like that.

      These bigots consider their own gender (and usually race and political affiliation, for that matter) the default and everything else a misguided if not dangerous aberration.

      They’re like the the people Musk grew up with in apartheid South Africa in that respect.

  • Maple Engineer@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    I call myself cis male. What delicate fucking snowflakes.

    EDIT: I want to provide some more information. I am a straight cis male. Straight is my sexual preference, cis gendered in my gender identity, and male is my biological sex as assigned at birth. I was first called cis male by a lesbian friend in a relationship with a trans-masculine lesbian (I think…s/he was a life long butch lesbian who began to transition socially after we met.) My friend described to me what cis meant and I said, “Ya, that describes me.” I have a pair of trans women friends (one post-op and one who will never get the surgery.) I have a pair of gay friends, one who had always known that he was gay and one who was closeted his whole life, married, kids, and came out in his 50s. I had known him for 25 years and never thought about whether he was straight or gay. In my social circle, intellectual and liberal, it is handy to be able to let people know a bit about me in a few words. I’ve embraced “cis” because I don’t think that I am superior because I am what I am. The people who are offended by being called “cis” are the ones who have sneered labels at others. I haven’t done that. I also find it handy in social situations to be able to say I’m interested in straight or bi cis women.

    I could not care less who you love, who you want to have sex with, how you present yourself, how you want to be addressed, etc. I have my preference but that’s just me.

    • casual_turtle_stew_enjoyer@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      I only ever call myself things like cisgender for the sake of argument, as it is the identity I was born into and lived with for many years before realizing I was agender.

      I personally consider cisgender and cishet to be slurs solely because I’ve so largely seen it used in a derogatory context, the same way “white male” is used by certain bad actors to signal outrage

      In all reality gender, sexual preference, race, ethnicity are all our of place in most civil discussion-- the majority of the time it is brought up is in discussion of identity politics. And if what we want as a society is equality, then identity should take a back seat to humanism.

      Unfortunately, as I’m sure my comment score will no doubt soon reflect, a lot of people take issue with this notion of equality and, as I’m sure replies to my comments may end up reflecting, are ready to disagree and offer their own definitions of equality. It is therefore the duty of the reader to decide what equality means to them, unfortunately.

      • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Cisgender is straight up just not a slur though, it literally just means the opposite of transgender, which is also not a slur, despite the fact that it can be used with derogatory language or sentiments.

      • Jimmyeatsausage@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        I think you’re currently in a place where I was in myself many years ago. This is all assuming everything you said was in good faith. You see all of the pain and damage the -isms have caused (racism, sexism, etc) and it seems at first blush that if society simply disregarded the traits those -isms are based around, the problem would go away. There’s enough truth in the idea to make it feel like a solution and, even if it’s subconscious, it kinda takes the onus of action off of you and puts it on the people that that are actually racist or exist. I don’t want to assume your political leanings, but I was farther right on the political spectrum than than I am now, and it fit well with my ideas about personal responsibility and limited government at the time…and I feel like it was regarded as common sense with everyone in that political sphere at the time. At the time, I was a 20-something cishet white guy (I’m still all of those things, except 20), and I felt like everything I had I’d earned, and I legit thought people could pull themselves out of the mire if they wanted it enough. I didn’t like being grouped in with the -ists, but I also wasn’t likely to call out a buddy for making an offensive joke.

        That whole chain of thinking is deeply flawed, but it’s an easy place to land, especially in middle-America. I feel like a good analogy that would have hit home with me at that point in my life would have been stories about places where Christianity was outlawed. I remember I had one of those old Christian comic books that were popular in the 90s about it. If you wanted to wear a cross, you’d have to hide it, you couldn’t talk about being Christian or meet with other Christians (like a church service or prayer group) without having to worry about the law coming down on you. (Really makes me wonder where that infamous sense of persecution the right has comes from). At the time, I’d hear those stories and think, “Man, government sucks…it would be terrible to have to hide who you were like that.” I think about those stories now and I think instead about not wearing the clothes you’re comfortable in, not being able to get healthcare for legit medical diagnoses, not being able to have a club or group of similar people you couls safely meet with to build community around shared life experiences. The story about persucted Christians in some unnamed dystopia was also telling the true story of LGBTQ people in my own country. And women in my own country. And racial groups In. My. Own. Country. I never would have accepted the idea that those persecuted Christians would be OK if there just wasn’t religion. Just like I know marginalized groups today won’t be OK if whatever society deems “wrong” with them just went away. Societies have inertia, and without someone exerting some kind of force on them, they’ll maintain their current trajectory. I came to see I didn’t like my societies trajectory, so I started trying to change it, probably went a little too extreme in the other direction for a while, but eventually learned to just listen first. It’s OK if I belong to a group (or several) that have been bad actors. It means I’m in a position to leverage my privileges to help change society’s momentum. I grew up very poor, but I’ve got pretty much every other privilege society has to offer. I honestly don’t know that I’d have been as fortunate as I am today if even one of those privileges was missing. Even with the deck stacked pretty well in my favor, it was a fucking fight to get here…and even now, doing so much better than most, it feels like barely hanging on some days. I agree that humanism is what we should be striving for, but I also understand that I’m part of a group that’s done a lot of bad to a lot of other groups. I don’t think it makes sense for me to be “proud” of any immutable part of my identity, but that also means I shouldn’t feel personally attacked when people talk about that identity. Things like the whole bear thing would have probably bothered me in the past, but now it’s more nuanced. I’m sad people feel that way, but I don’t blame them, and I’ve listened enough that I believe them. Now the question I ask isn’t “How is this fair to me?” but instead. “How can I use my membership in the group to help change its momentum to something better.” Sometimes it’s voting, sometimes it’s canvassing or protesting, sometimes it’s reaching out to someone I see a part of my past self in.

      • Socsa@sh.itjust.works
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        7 months ago

        Cisgender is a descriptive term. If you have seen it in a derogatory context, then you should take issue with the context.

      • UnpluggedFridge@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        It is so strange to say that identity should take a back seat to humanism when every historical example of discrimination and dehumanization is based on identity. Identity in those instances is not imposed on oneself, but is used to define the outgroup that is being dehumanized. Identity politics is simply an honest accounting of groups that being descriminated against. When the discrimination ends, we see the group identity evaporate. We need only look at the early 20th century definitions of Caucasian, and the identity politics of Irish and Italian Americans subsequently evaporating when that definition evolved to include all Americans of European decent, to see that identity politics is a reaction to injustice and not the other way around.

      • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        agender

        guess this is what i will tell people to call me now. because i don’t give a shit that i have a penis.

        100% agree with you. but sadly humanism doesn’t incite people to team-based violence, so it’s very going to be very popular. human beings very much prefer tribal thinking to global thinking.

      • Maple Engineer@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        The definition of cis is, “a person whose gender identity corresponds to their sex assigned at birth.” Does you gender identity correspond to the sex you were assigned at birth? Mine does.

        • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          what if i feel like my gender identity is irrelevant?

          other people care a lot more about my gender and sex than i do. i can tell you that.

          • Maple Engineer@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            The term cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning ‘on this side of’, which is the opposite of trans-, meaning ‘across from’ or ‘on the other side of’. This usage can be seen in the cis–trans distinction in chemistry, the cis and trans sides of the Golgi apparatus in cellular biology, the ancient Roman term Cisalpine Gaul (i.e. ‘Gaul on this side of the Alps’), and Cisjordan (as distinguished from Transjordan). In cisgender, cis- describes the alignment of gender identity with assigned sex.

        • thebrownhaze@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          Also, I don’t accept I was “assigned a gender at birth”. That’s like a person of faith saying when I got a sole. Believe what you want, but don’t expect me to join in.

      • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        People made the same arguments about “heterosexual” and “straight”, at least with the latter I could see why someone would see that as a slur (it’s a term originates from animal farming), while “heterosexual” just describes someone is attracted to the opposite gender (go on, and use it as an “a ha!” moment against me by claiming it as a proof that even I know there’s only two genders, like fundamentalists do with atheists saying “oh my god!”). “Cis” is just the opposite of “trans”, even if Musk had the techbro-level idea of treating “cis” the same way most sensible people treat that “cool and funny” gamer word, he wants to say out loud in the public, like he used to do it in apartheid Africa.

        • thebrownhaze@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          So, even if I don’t like it, I have to accept being called that? My preferences don’t matter?

          • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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            7 months ago

            I know this may be a difficult concept for you, but here’s what you do:

            Someone calls you cisgendered.

            You say, “I don’t like being called cisgendered, call me _____.”

            That person agrees and calls you ______.

            -and that is all most trans people are asking of you too.

            • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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              7 months ago

              speak for yourself. not my experience of many trans folk at all. many of them are actively hostile. and some of them are just straight up fucking mean people. and i’ve also seen trans folks who were chill… become radicalized and whom i used to hang out with and liked… and then all the sudden i’m the ‘enemy’.

              it’s almost like trans folks are people and subject to the same errors in thinking and hateful nonsense as anyone else.

  • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    Has anyone ever been fired from a job for being cis? [I’ve been fired from a couple for being trans….]

    • Flying Squid@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I know that is legal in a lot of places, but it absofuckinglutely should not be. I’m really sorry. I hope you’ve found something good since.

    • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      no, but i have seen people asked to give up their position so a ‘more worthy’ trans person could take their place… mostly for the ‘optics’ of being ‘diverse’. most often old white men, because they are ‘bad’ and trans people are ‘good’.

      a lot in community groups in social/leftist leanings. the obsession with trans tokenism about rich white liberals is def a thing, esp when you can request a old white man and replace them with a young trans person so that your org/group is ‘with it’. i’ve seen this happen multiple times.

      and in a few instance sadly, the person who replaced was great and knowledgeable, and the trans person who replaced them was an unhinged jerk who ended up quitting or being asked to leave after introducing an inordinate amount of drama into the group.

      • andros_rex@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Where I live, I can be legally denied a job, housing, or medical care. If the cops wanted to, they’ve retroactively invalidated changed drivers licenses, so they could probably just arrest me for driving. I couldn’t access any form of domestic violence resource when escaping my marriage.

        Some trans people are crazy assholes - just as some cis people are crazy assholes. But there is no system level oppression of cis people. Drama is annoying, but drama doesn’t mean you don’t get to eat.

  • Matriks404@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I wasn’t aware of this term, but I just checked it in wiktionary. Looks like a perfect normal word to me.

    • OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee
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      7 months ago

      It is, and it’s a word we need there’s not a different term for it and it’s a useful concept. Close minded people just hate that it implies the existence of trans people.

    • captainlezbian@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      Much like all words for a privileged group it has some people who really don’t like it. Transphobes in particular dislike it because it is neutral and contains no value judgement. But also because it gives people the language to talk about trans experiences without misgendering or othering trans people

  • pastabatman@lemmy.world
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    7 months ago

    I honestly never even considered that it was a slur. Sometimes you are having a discussion where gender identity is relevant, and in that situation it is useful to be able to clearly indicate that someone is cisgender.

    See I just used it.

    • HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      I don’t think classifying cisgender as a slur is defendable, especially on its own.

      Not saying it is a slur, but I’ve seen it used like a slur before, mostly coupled with “white” and “men”/“women”. But I’m fairly sure Elon himself is against censoring language for that reason (when it comes to things that don’t personally offend him). It just seems dumb and hypocritical to me

    • mightyfoolish@lemmy.world
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      7 months ago

      The word was created so the official opposite of transgender is not simply the word “normal”. Treating cisgender as a slur is just attacking transgender people.

    • xmunk@sh.itjust.works
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      7 months ago

      When I first heard it, I assumed it was a slur because the closest common use English word is cissy.

      But then I like… looked it up.

      Basically, I can understand how some folks initially think it’s a slur, but this conservative overreaction is clearly in bad faith and it’d almost certainly happen whatever the fuck the word was.

  • prosp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    7 months ago

    Lol, that’s incredible. But more incredible is what happened in Peru: They declared that being trans is a mental disease.

      • dustyData@lemmy.world
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        7 months ago

        Gender dysphoria, the psychological suffering caused by feeling like you are in the wrong body, is the disease. Being a trans person is not a disease, and using that as a basis for insulting or discriminating is inappropriate. Somewhat like autism is the mental disease but having autism is not a disease and it is inappropriate to treat a person as if it is the entirety of their existence. Way too often illness has been used as the basis of mistreatment and outright extermination. People have diseases, they aren’t their diseases. We have introduced this notion from the fields of ethics in medicine and it’s why a lot of things are no longer used in language nor in concept: the disabled, the retarded, the syphilitic, the autistic, etc. People aren’t diseases and they aren’t their disease.

        If you knew a thing or two about the history of gender, you’d know that medicalization of gender is precisely one of the main historical roots to justify discrimination, criminalization and abuse towards trans people. Medicalization of gender has literally killed millions of people throughout history.

        • TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world
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          7 months ago

          combine it with race to see an even starker picture. black women’s medical outcomes are insanely worse than other races and genders.