If “your man card can be revoked” then you understand that gender is performative and conditional.
I understand that gender is made up and doesn’t matter. There is nothing girly or manly.
For some the optionality of it is less important than the notion that if it’s performative, you can be bad at it and therefore make yourself an acceptable target for abuse, and besides that the idea that some roles can be restricted to only those with a certain set of physical characteristics is deeply ingrained in many, be that in terms gender, career, or what have you.
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Cringe, you’re not even a good anarchist.
Is this the most terminally online possible way of saying “gender is a social construct and I’m a gender abolitionist”?
Possibly, never seen anyone in real world run around yelling their gender at people.
Sooo what if a dude just decides to act like, dress like, and call themselves like a girl? Why would they not be allowed to do that? What about the laws of the universe takes away their agency to do that?
I’m entirely for gender abolitionism, but you really need to find some better rhetoric. “Cope and seethe, your arguments are shit” won’t work on most people
Which words are you struggling with?
If enough of us behave girly, it’s no longer girly.
This is why I like it when I see men wear skirts/kilts, wear eyeliner and/or paint their nails. It’s not something I’m into but I think it’s cool when I see it.
Ngl it’s also just because femboys are hot.
That and that painted nails can look good on anyone
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Is it tho? Being gay is liking other men. Why must those things be feminine things? Who decided? Warriors wore war paint. Now covering your face in whatever you like is for women. Pink used to be a boy’s color. Lesley was a boy’s name. We’re all just people doing shit.
Men doing feminine things doesn’t mean anything about who they are attracted to.
You are conflating two very different things. About half of the gay men I’ve known were fairly or very masculine, they just were attracted to men. And I’ve known plenty of straight guys that ranged from feminine to downright flamboyant. The way you tell if someone likes men or not is either if they tell you or flirt with you, and if they’re a man, then they are gay (or bi or whatever non-strictly-straight flavor).
Incidentally, most of the (non-trans) men I’ve known that were feminine or flamboyant were artists of some flavor, which tend to be a group with less inhibitions, so I would guess there are plenty of non-artist men that would show more femininity if they felt more comfortable with doing so.
Anyone can wear makeup or nail polish or wear a skirt, doesn’t say anything about their sexuality. Nor do all gay men do those things (I’d hazard that most don’t).
Nope, it’s more common with those groups but gay men are into other men, what they do is unrelated. Goth is a whole thing as is Scottish. And trans is not identifying with the sex you were assigned at birth. Part of the reason why these groups are more likely to do these things is because of those assumptions. If a straight cis man just feels like he likes the way he looks better dressed like that that’s cool and while people may make assumptions they aren’t necessarily true.
Think of it this way…
You’re the only person on earth. Does your gender matter anymore? Hair colour or length? Cock or boob size? What you put on your face or wear? Whether you like sewing, math, fishing, dancing, or frolicking through a field? No one’s there. You don’t have an identity because you’re never being identified by anyone. You’re not goth, gay, feminine, trans, or Scottish—you don’t know what those things are and actually never will because they won’t be invented. I mean, you could invent them by some astronomically improbably chance, but how, why, and what for? They’re all made up things along with all the socially expected tropes that come with those “identities”.
So what you perceive as “gay” is just nothing for a lot of people. They wouldn’t have considered it, nor would care, you’d be struggling to hold their attention as you tried to explain it and they’d forget it in moments anyway. These people say “I am me”, not “I am a…”
Some of those things wouldn’t exist anymore but others while the words and grouping may not the concept they represent would. I am gay, not because society puts me in that box, but because society has drawn a box around where I sit and given it the label gay. If I were the only person I would still crave the touch of another woman and not of a man. I may not feel insecure about the size of my breasts but I’d be uncomfortable if I didn’t have them.
It’s only gay if you kiss a guy and like it
By definition.
I’ve had that discussion before.
Gender roles, and thus gender presentation, are cultural for the most part. Some are common enough to multiple cultures that it approaches being just human culture.
But even in western (us, canada, europe) cultures, there have been periods where the presentation of masculinity would be considered feminine in other eras. So gender roles & presentation aren’t fixed in a given culture.
If I, regardless of what my genitals are, present as a man, then I am effectively the same as whatever a man is in my culture. If that also includes taking on the gender roles of “man”, then that’s another layer.
However, this also means that when enough men shift their presentation and roles, anyone holding to the previous roles and presentation are now “less” a man in the cultural sense. It really, truly is a majority rules situation, and the minority are what get relabeled (usually).
The more men that reject an arbitrary paradigm of masculinity, the more we shift to an open, loose definition of what is and isn’t masculine, with the eventual possibility that gender becomes so loose in definition that masculine and feminine become irrelevant terms, if the labels also lose relevance to the majority. And I believe that if enough people reject fixed gender paradigms, the terms would inevitably cease to matter.
I mean, we’ve already started to add qualifiers. We have traditional gender roles as a specific thing as separate from current gender roles.
This isn’t to deny that hormones and genetics will push people into behaviors that are linked to gender because they’re mostly linked to sex. But even with those pressures, we usually have room how we express those behaviors.
It’s why I always tell folks, particularly younger folks, to not worry much about labels. Be who you are, as long as who you are isn’t a douche, and you’ll eventually find the labels that feel right. And there’s a good chance you’ll end up shifting your self over time anyway, which is fine. As long as you don’t fixate on labels as defining the person, the self, you can freely shift labels as the self shifts. It’s when you pick a label and think that you have to fit it in all ways, forever, that you run into trouble.
So, fuck yeah. If you feel “girly”, be girly. Enjoy that shit. Be your best self. It’ll eventually work out :)
Exactly. I think labels are useful as communication tools, but they’re an active hindrance to self exploration. One of the greatest things I ever did for myself was completely setting them aside when exploring my gender until I knew what I wanted. It was a lot easier to run off a checklist of options than to sort through a variety of labels, even when I fell solidly into some labels.
Just can’t win with some people. And that’s ok, life isn’t about impressing everyone - anyone who tries gets exhausted real fast.
Has my therapist been talking to you?
Ok but also you aren’t nonbinary just because you’re an effeminate man. They’re different things entirely
You can’t gatekeep being nonbinary. Not unless you’re prepared to define it explicitly, which will exclude many people - and not everyone will agree with your definition either.
I said just because. Not that effeminate men aren’t capable of being nonbinary, merely that it is not sufficient (or necessary for that matter). You have to like actually not identify as entirely a man.
But it’s not my place to fight I’m very much in the binary side of transness.
Whose authority says it’s not sufficient? If they say they are nonbinary, they are nonbinary.
OP means “don’t assume someone is non-binary because they are an effeminate man” and not “you aren’t non-binary just because you are an effeminate man”
I suppose that’s possible, but the thing you say OP is not saying is literally a quote. So at best it’s worded poorly.
Except they literally said that
Their intent with the message was clearly less-than-literal. They tried to clear things up in replies but failed. I think it is quite clear that they meant no one any harm, and simply failed to convey their idea properly.
The comment itself should be edited to reflect the original intent, then. People can’t just say stupid and hyperbolic things and not be held socially accountable.
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Are you transphobic as well? I’m genuinely curious. Or does transgender count as “real” in your view because it does have a far more strict definition?
I thought they were gender abolitionist, but I… I’m not too sure anymore.
I am too tbh, I think the weird thing is enbies to me are inherently a sort of political commentary through identity on gender and our relationship to it, unless I’m just wrong.
I think the whole issue is somewhat separate from trans people who mostly are just people with a mental neurodivergence/disorder called gender dysphoria that causes them anguish and is caused by their body’s sex and their brain’s innate sense of sex don’t agree and therefore they seek medical treatments like HRT and surgeries and documentation changes to help them perceive themselves and be perceived by others as members of the target sex as much as is humanly possible.
Their political angle is to fight for access to said healthcare to be more common, available through insurance, be taken more seriously with faster wait times and be available to younger people since the effectiveness of a lot of the treatments like hormones depends on the age you start.
Conflating the two imo is kinda like commentary on attention spans relating to social media and the actual neurological disorder ADHD.
I think it’s a little “exotic” to call my existence an inherent political commentary. It’s certainly something that can be used to inform political debate, but I believe saying that it’s inherent misses the point that our existence is only political because it’s politicized
And for what it’s worth, gender dysphoria is also something experienced by nonbinary folks, but it isn’t a requirement of being trans or non-binary either. Some people just don’t experience it and requiring it as a clinical diagnosis is part of the medicalization of our and trans people’s existence as well.
I don’t really know how to finish this lol, I agree with the rest of your comment. I just wanted to correct what I feel are common misconceptions.
Maybe dysphoria isn’t a precondition to being trans, but I don’t get how.
What I don’t understand is then why transition? If you’re fine as you are, why the hassle? Just as fashion/identity? Body modding for lulz? Nothing wrong with either but it’s very removed from my XP.
I only transitioned because I needed to, to me GD is a curse treated with medication and surgeries I couldn’t live without and that’s basically all that being trans is to me. The identity of being trans is defined to me by dysphoria - mental torture associated with one’s birth sex fixed by becoming the other, or as close as possible with current tech.
Also how does enby dysphoria work? Do you just feel dysphoric about a mix of male and female traits? That’s wild if true.
Telling someone whose gender doesn’t conform to the male/female binary view of gender that the term non-binary is a “shit pseudophilosophical concept” that “has no connection to reality” fucking sucks. Either you don’t recognize gender outside of the binary, or you just think these people don’t deserve a way to express and talk about their gender. Either way it’s a garbage take.
Homophobes are cute. Me and my homies only jerk off to homophobes. Just like those old WW2 vets that invented the gay leather scene. Except now the kink is to dress up as an Ultra-American instead of a German nazi. I got a 1776 shirt literally just to fuck with.
(One part humor, one part truth, one part bullshit. If my lame comedy makes anyone angry they aren’t living the life they should be. Treat yo self.)
If nostalgia ever kicks in, German is my first language :P
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As a leather woman I do want people to know how the community actually formed. Motorcycling was a socially acceptable hobby and served two purposes: it as a hobby has just always been useful for men dealing with ptsd who aren’t comfortable with therapy (it’s worse than therapy but it’s better than nothing and it’s not like 1948 Americans were ready to hear that John can’t process that he killed someone and that he fell in love with a soldier who died in his arms), and it served as a convenient excuse to get out of town into the middle of nowhere where nobody will see gay sadomasochism unless they came to see it.
It’s never been a parody of the right, but it has had parodies of what was expected of them. The Nazi fetishists were different folks usually. Though we did have people wearing parodies of us uniforms
I enjoyed this immensely and spilt my drink. Haha.
Ha. Gay.
This has gotta be the meme that best sums up the situation lmao
Men can behave girly.
Then as a man, I choose to act like a girly-Man©. See? Has Man© and that symbol makes it official. That means I can do anything <‘ronswanson meme.jpg’> Checkmate. Easy victory
A real Girly-Man wears blue armor with white toilet seats painted on the shoulders. Rowboat.
Reactionaries have no underlying principles, they just react, violently in some cases. If you guide them through their own cobbled-together set of values and show the contradictions, they get angry and start yelling, because to them, they are their own moral arbiter and a challenge to their status quo is an enemy.
Gender is a Social construct and getting upset at people for being outside the bimodal spectrum conservative society expects them to be is utterly pointless, stupid, and harmful.
it’s designed so that you can’t win except by being and doing precisely what you’re told. this is because it’s designed by evil people and promoted by weak people.
🚫Girly ✅Childish
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What type of mental ginastic are they using? Lol
