China Installed More Solar Panels Last Year Than the U.S. Has in Total::China installed more new solar capacity last year than the total amount ever installed in any other country.
Currently seeing the US climate narrative shift from “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when China won’t? >:(” to “why should we stop burning fossils and get our shit together when Senegal won’t? >:(” Can’t wait for 20 years from now when we’re balls deep in climate disasters, Senegal gets its shit together, and the US narrative moves to
hondurasEl SalvadorUgandacomparing itself to the Philippines.Holy crap you guys, it turns out that the narrative that the developing world is going to burn an ass-ton of fossil fuels is a lot weaker than I thought. It looks like there’s a fuckton of equatorial and global south countries with renewables/hydro power, Honduras is even adding Geothermal. God damn it, USA, get off your ass and fix your shit already.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020. Thanks to Biden policies. Even though according to reddit he’s an incontinent dementia patient.
Source? I haven’t seen final numbers for 2023 from EIA yet, but 2022 was like 22%. The growth is accelerating as economics change, and in large part the IRA (thanks Biden), but it’s not 40%. I’m speaking of electricity production, but I can’t think of a reasonable metric that’s anywhere near 40% nationally. Let’s try to stick to reality here.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Renewable_energy_in_the_United_States
You said renewables are 40%, which is wrong. Then you sourced articles showing that carbon free sources are 40%, which includes nuclear. Nobody calls nuclear “renewable”, so I suggest getting your language straight so as not to confuse.
to be fair nuclear nuclear is much much better than keeping up with all that fossil fuel burning.
in fact id rather see (properly maintained!!!) nuclear than waiting until actual renewables can cover all of the world’s demand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_proposed_as_renewable_energy
You are a total douche, btw.
We’ve moved from 17% to 40% of total energy production coming from renewables since 2020
This what you said. You’re comparing a 2020 number without nuclear to a 2022 number with nuclear. That’s dumb and misleading. That doesn’t make me a douche, it makes you wrong and petty. Grow up and just try to get your numbers and facts straight.
The US DOE puts the US at 20% renewable energy.
Pretty easy to argue nuclear is renewable and is carbon neutral. Ergo, 40%.
Except when you leave out nuclear in 2020 and add it in 2023 you’re not pointing out anything about Biden (or anyone else’s) policies. You’re just demonstrating that shifting your metrics mid sentence leads to a nonsense conclusion.
I mean… It can all be true, right?
Listen to Biden’s interview on Conan O’Brien’s podcast then come back here and tell me he’s demented. I’ll wait.
I also had sweet dreams last night
China needs a fuckload of power, they are building more of everything including coal. The only reason they aren’t building more coal is people like seeing out their windows.
The US is actually winding down coal use. China is still expanding, this is a problem. The fact China also added a ton of solar panels is a nice distraction.
I seem to have been working on old info, as China has decommissioned 70 GW of coal plants, but it looks like they also just approved a whole lot more of them.
In the third quarter of this year, however, China permitted more new coal plants than in all of 2021, according to Greenpeace, even as most countries have stopped building new coal-fired power and are phasing out plants.
Well, shit.
Anyway, I’m glad for the solar and nuclear capacity (LOTS of it!) that China’s been building. I’m glad to hear that we are spinning down coal capacity, but I’d be interested to learn what we’re replacing it with. It seems like natural gas is all the rage these days, and that still produces GHG emissions.
Good news for one of the planet’s most polluting countries.
That is producing for the rest of the world and especially for the west. It’s hypocritical to blame china while buying stuff that had to be cheaper and cheaper.
The average consumer doesn’t actually have a choice in the matter. Unless you are wealthy enough to purchase only local artisan made goods near everything you can afford is made in China or made in China adjacent.
You could simply not purchase as much crap. Half of the factories that supply the West’s goods would go out of business if people stopped buying new phones and shitty plastics every full moon.
Oh no, that’s the freedom way. Gods forbid, they’d be living like the bland Soviet blocks otherwise.
Then you cannot complain about corporations moving jobs overseas. Clearly was the only way for the society to survive.
They do. I boycott Chinese made goods, and I don’t make much money. It just requires a small amount of introspection on if I need the item. It has actually turned out I buy much much less because what I do buy is of quality and lasts.
Cosmetics, Household goods and food are easy and generally fairly locally made and produced, unless you insist on buying exotic fruits or stuff way out of season.
Clothes, shoes, anything fabric, again easy. Massive market of quality eco-friendly EU/US/UK made stuff that means I pay $30 for a lovely shirt that will last me decades than $5 a shirt that was made by a child in Myanmar and fall apart within the year. So I am slowly developing a modest wardrobe of high quality natural fibres.
You don’t really need much else. But it just takes a moment to Google and consume conscientiously.
Some stuff is nearly impossible and is actually outside of your control like fuel and SOME electrical devices. But nothing can be perfect.
Just remove “made in China” from your basket. And buy just what you need. It’s my a good beginning.
Reduce, reuse, recycle.
If I don’t need it to work or live I don’t buy it from places I know have a slave labor issue or any other ethics concerns.
Another thing that help, ad block. Honestly advertising is brain rot and why a lot of people feel a compulsion to buy land fill filler.
You‘re right. We should move production to cleaner countries.
Production will always have some waste and pollution. China has high pollution because we do a lot of production there. As I pointed out above, on both a per-capita and a per-production basis China pollutes less than many industrialized nations (US. Germany, Japan, South Korea, Canada, Taiwan) and many developing nations (Singapore, Malaysia).
Given current manufacturing data, moving production out of China to other countries would likely increase pollution.
I don’t think that absolves China of any blame. They’re still choosing to produce cheap goods at the expense of the planet, because it’s good business for them too.
If not them then it’d be someone else. Clearly they’re starting to take polluting seriously.
If you look at CO2 emissions per capita then China is actually doing better than countries like Canada, the US, and Singapore. Assuming I haven’t completely misread that table.
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
This is a list of sovereign states and territories by per capita carbon dioxide emissions due to certain forms of human activity, based on the EDGAR database created by European Commission. The following table lists the 1970, 1990, 2005, 2017 and 2022 annual per capita CO2 emissions estimates (in kilotons of CO2 per year). The data only consider carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels and cement manufacture, but not emissions from land use, land-use change and forestry Over the last 150 years, estimated cumulative emissions from land use and land-use change represent approximately one-third of total cumulative anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Emissions from international shipping or bunker fuels are also not included in national figures, which can make a large difference for small countries with important ports. The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) Sixth Assessment Report finds that the “Agriculture, Forestry and Other Land Use (AFOLU)” sector on average, accounted for 13-21% of global total anthropogenic GHG emissions in the period 2010–2019.
CO2 emissions are carefully curated and we are not even that good at calculating them. I wouldn’t trust any of this info coming from China let alone from any nation.
Do you have a better metric?
Big dog 2 months… If you knew how companies figure out their pollution metrics you would be very sad.
As for a better metric, I don’t know. Everything is tied to cost so it’s really dumb
Not sure why you’re so hung up on dogs or 2 months. The thread still shows up in searches and you’re clearly getting updates on it. Unless there’s some evidence to suggest the information in this thread is now obsolete, there’s no reason not to respond.
@[email protected] made a claim and provided evidence. Unless there’s better evidence to the contrary it’s reasonable to accept the claim. My children sometimes still respond to arguments with, “Nuh uh.” I generally expect more from adults.
No, it’s not hypocritical. Yes, anyone with half a brain knows China makes a huge chunk of the world’s stuff.
A nation can make choices as to what energy sources they use and China went balls to the wall with coal. That wasn’t a choice the buyers of Chinese products made.
Lol look what they are spending the money they earn from those industries. At least they are not solely funding decades long genocide but actually doing something about the emissions they take on.
Tibet
Uyghers
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Only way many western countries were able to slow their rise in CO2 emissions. Despite outsourcing their emissions to China, the US still emits twice the CO2 per capita compared with China.
And why are they one of the most polluting countries?
Bad manufacturing practices that exploits a poor labor force. They use this to their advantage to persuade western companies to provide cheap service at the cost of their workforce and sustainability. They then turn around and make these grand plans of Eco friendly targets while their populace regularly burn their trash with little regulation. Then some regulation agency comes in and turns a blind eye to some foul shit as long as they are paid accordingly to play ball.
When you look at the data China pollutes less than the US both on a per-capita and a per-production basis.
Big dog why are you going back in time 2 months to respond to this
Why not? Have the facts changed since then?
I don’t even know what you are responding toqnd don’t care to look
So you’re just going to spew out words without even checking the context of those words?
Brilliant!
Because they pollute a lot
Actually they are poluting for you to buy your stuff cheaper, who is responsible for the polution of your stuff? Dowa not make any sense to blame them for factories that the west choosed to put there.
They could always say no
polluting to meet the online shopping demands of western countries
87% of China’s energy comes from non renewable and they aren’t one of the most polluting. They ARE the most polluted country on the planet.
And saying China leads the way is bogus. Per capita for renewable they are one of the worst.
Saying China made the most solar panels is bullshit when they have over a billion people, the USA is actually far ahead of China when it comes to renewable energy.
I expect nothing less from a news site that has been caught multiple times in the past for spouting pseudoscience.
A lot of people don’t realize how quickly China is changing. Things that were true just a few decades ago are often no longer true.
Once China decided that pollution was a problem they went all in on addressing it. China has massive reforestation projects, huge incentives to switch to EVs, and much tighter energy efficiency standards.
Solar isn’t even their only renewable energy source. China gets about equal amounts from solar, wind and hydro https://www.spglobal.com/commodityinsights/en/market-insights/latest-news/energy-transition/013124-coal-still-accounted-for-nearly-60-of-chinas-electricity-supply-in-2023-cec
together they make up a little less than half of their total energy production and the ratio keeps improving.correction: those are projected ratios, not current ratios.Of course, on a per capita basis, China isn’t even close to being a top polluter. Unless you think that people in smaller countries deserve to pollute more, per-capita is the better measurement. China looks a little worse if you do that but it’s still far from a top polluter by that metric.
Fantastic. Remember guys, we’re all on the same side on this one. This should be a signal for the US to get its ass in gear to do the same, but it’s not like China expanding its renewable energy capacity is anything but great for everyone.
There’s a reason the US is targeting China from various fronts (trade restrictions, sanctions, etc.). China is a powerhouse and the US is terrified of being left behind.
I don’t get why you’re getting dowvoted. I guess there are a lot of Americans over here. But your statement is absolutely true. The US attempts at restricting China’s access to various technologies only make sense if they feel threatened by them.
It just could be, maybe, military posturing.
Because I don’t remember any restrictions for as long as China didn’t intend to start the WW3.
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china is not the country participating, directly or indirectly, in a handful of pretty destabilizing wars right now.
dunno why they are the ones being accused of wanting to start ww3
We’re watching The Thucydides Trap unfold in real-time
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
The Thucydides Trap, or Thucydides’ Trap, is a term popularized by American political scientist Graham T. Allison to describe an apparent tendency towards war when an emerging power threatens to displace an existing great power as a regional or international hegemon. The term exploded in popularity in 2015 and primarily applies to analysis of China–United States relations. Supporting the thesis, Allison led a study at Harvard University’s Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs which found that, among a sample of 16 historical instances of an emerging power rivaling a ruling power, 12 ended in war. That study, however, has come under considerable criticism, and scholarly opinion on the value of the Thucydides Trap concept—particularly as it relates to a potential military conflict between the United States and China—remains divided.
good bot
China is doing a lot of shady stuff though.
If the US really wanted to resolve it they would do more about patient infringement and spend more money on research.
Oh my God, that’s awful!
I hope the US responds by installing more solar panels this year than China ever has!
Let’s install solar panels on the moon! That’ll fucking show them. Beam the energy back to earth with giant fucking microwave dishes. Ohhh that would really piss off them damn reds
We can do it, not because it’s easy, but because it is hard.
Wait what? That’s an awful reason to do something.
Doing the hard thing is a learning experience.
Well, someone has to make use of renewable energy I guess lol
You can thank conservatives for that. They are beholden to fossil fuel interests so they attack everything else whether it be solar energy or ev
BuT At wHaT CoSt
The enslavement of the Uighur people? I work for an American renewable energy company and a lot of contracts were disrupted by the US’ Forced Labor Prevention Act. I suspect that the sudden jump in domestic Chinese installation is partially caused by Chinese exports being restricted by western nations.
China’s govt has been trying to make their country as self sustaining as possible, this is part of that initiative. No one can tell you shit if you’re don’t rely on anyone for external things.
Ya, it makes sense considering China imports 2/3 of their oil. Solar and EVs make a lot of sense when you don’t have much in the way of fossil fuels. Not even considering the environmental benefits
We’d have more if these right wing assholes would get onboard. You know they’re assholes because they’re attacking China in the comments rather than acknowledging this awesome milestone
The rise of China is democratizing access to technology. My home government, supposedly a longtime partner of the US even doing its dirty work in Yemen, has struggled for years to get any tech transfer deal with the US, too many hoops to jump through. But were able to get many tech transfers from China recently. It was a major win and that technology includes solar panel manufacturing.
Too many hoops, like stop funding the terrorist groups that attacked The US on 9/11? Yeah, I can see how MBS might have some trust issues coming from The US.
Funny you accuse the Saudi government of what was an inside-job. The Saudi government exiled Bin Laden in the 1990s, revoking his citizenship, while the US was still working with him. Either way we don’t need it from you. China is making you irrelevant. You can’t withhold technology to bully the rest of the world. You can go pound sand.
Also funny coming from a nation where a genocidal maniac is the lesser evil, someone who is bypassing Congress to send weapons to Israel and bomb Yemen. You keep your electoralism, and I am keeping our free healthcare, free universities and high speed rail.
FYI, the US is guilty of multiple war crimes in Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia, Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. They are guilty right now of war crimes in Palestine. It is really tiring how you pretend to be the good guys. You are Homelander not Superman, and you are no longer the only player in town.
Bro… the current leadership of China committed genocide on their own soil and have been attempting to expand their borders for decades.
China is not a good partner for playing the lesser of 2 evils game. You’d be at it all day with the whataboutism.
still better than the us
Bro the US wouldn’t exist if it weren’t for genocide and slavery. The US right now occupies oil fields in Iraq and Syria and is stealing the oil. The US right now is sending weapons to Israel to massacre Palestinians. No one cares about your virtue signaling.
China is a much lesser evil. They don’t try to push us to normalize with genocidal maniacs (Zionist usurpers) as a precondition for even the most basic of technologies.
If you think China is so bad just compare the policing of Hong Kong protests with the policing of George Floyd protests. The emperor has no clothes.
FYI: the US is also expanding https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-12-22/us-claims-huge-chunk-of-seabed-amid-strategic-push-for-resources and it is also helping Israel annex Syrian and Palestinian lands.
Yeah, we know. But again… the whataboutism. Countries exist because of war and oppression. It’s time to move past that as an excuse.
This is a joke, though, as you are just projecting and doing what you’ve accused me of. Just don’t bother. Rounding up and sterilizing your citizens. And China famously gunned protesters down in the streets. So I don’t want to hear about how we handle protesters compared to China.
What about USA this, what about USA that. What about the assassination of Kashoggi? What about the killings of innocents for protesting in the Arab states?
If you are bringing up journalists then you should care about Palestinian journalists being slaughtered by US weapons
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-war-in-gaza-has-been-deadly-for-journalists
Shit were guilty of war crimes inside the US. Tell me something I don’t know.
Thing is our government occasionally fucks up and does some good shit. MBS, and Ji Jinpooh don’t give two fucks about their own people or any others.
MBS is still funding terrorist groups 24 years later, and murdering journalists.
The US Government may be a soulless corporate structure bent on enriching itself. MBS is a parochial dictator that is just pissed off we don’t need his dino juice anymore.
Grow up. Your bias is shining too strongly.
Democracy and technology? You’re thinking of Taiwan.
Which is a part of China according to even the US
Except in any defacto way, mainland has 0 control on the rule of law in Taiwan. They have their own taxes, military, laws, elections, etc, and again pay no taxes, follow no laws, they don’t partipate in mainlands gov, and don’t serve in their military.
There is even some international recognition, but mainland does it’s best to hinder their diplomatic missions.
ربي يعطيك على قد نيتك
Taiwan is an independent and democratic country, unlike the totalitarian and pseudo-communist state that is China.
Its because China isn’t beholden to a bunch of invisible suits demanding money over all else. Apparently the US can’t break from Citizens United, and tell this corpos whats what to literally save its own skin.
Lol XDDDDD
Thinking China isn’t beholden to an invisible elite is the laugh I needed today
How did their presidential election go again?
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2952 votes for
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0 votes against
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0 votes abstain
China is from from perfect, missing tons of freedoms like speech. However do you think they have the same issues as the US regarding wealth hoarding? They have put billionaires in jail.
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what? they dont even have direct presidential elections for the federal executive.
Pooh with an iron mit is not the same as the invisible kings of the countless corporations donating their free speech to our government. They are beholden to Whinnie, and he is out in the open. Yes, there are still a lot of economical politics over there. Yes, there is still capitalistic pressures and businesses are allowed to operate. Do they define money as free speech over there? Did they capture bribery and bind it to the law? I don’t know, but I do know that is true for the US, and it is the reason you won’t see enough renewables being built. Its the reason we will drag our feet to our graves, because it makes some dudes richer than god.
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China doesn’t have oil and they want to be energy independent. Because of this they heavily invest in renewables.
It’s not like they are doing it to save the planet, but it does save the planet.
china also has more population than any other country
US total wealth: 139+ trillion (in USD)
China total wealth: 84+ trillion (in USD)
It’s not a function of population. It’s a function of wealth and the will to use that wealth to invest in clean energy. The US has entrenched interests in keeping the oil flowing. China isn’t investing in clean energy for altruism, they do it because they don’t have rich reserves of oil, but at least they’re doing the right thing, even if it’s not necessarily for the right reasons.
Agreed that wealth also is a relevant parameter. But it is also a function of the population because what fraction of your population’s power consumption is coming from a renewable source is a more interesting metric than your raw renewable power production.
global production is all outsourced to india and mainly china.
their carbon emissions correspond not only to their own population, but to produce goods for most of the world.
yes and hence why it is currently only reasonable to compare things like total renewable energy production vs total household energy requirements of a country. production energy is too global to tackle with this approach. and so why I just casually mentioned population is an important factor in how much renewable energy you should be producing.
yes, thats true, but the original point is that china has to invest heavily in energy solely because of its population, and thats not true when most of that consumption comes from globalized industry working there. that was my point.
Building giant empty cities in the middle of nowhere doesn’t help the housing crisis in China.
Building giant solar and wind farms in the middle of nowhere does help with the pollution crisis.
Glad that they finally found something that uses dumping money in the middle of nowhere that can actually improve peoples lives instead of just prop up an economic bubble.
