Hope this isn’t a repeated submission. Funny how they’re trying to deflect blame after they tried to change the EULA post breach.
I’m seeing so much FUD and misinformation being spread about this that I wonder what’s the motivation behind the stories reporting this. These are as close to the facts as I can state from what I’ve read about the situation:
- 23andMe was not hacked or breached.
- Another site (as of yet undisclosed) was breached and a database of usernames, passwords/hashes, last known login location, personal info, and recent IP addresses was accessed and downloaded by an attacker.
- The attacker took the database dump to the dark web and attempted to sell the leaked info.
- Another attacker purchased the data and began testing the logins on 23andMe using a botnet that used the username/passwords retrieved and used the last known location to use nodes that were close to those locations.
- All compromised accounts did not have MFA enabled.
- Data that was available to compromised accounts such as data sharing that was opted-into was available to the people that compromised them as well.
- No data that wasn’t opted into was shared.
- 23andMe now requires MFA on all accounts (started once they were notified of a potential issue).
I agree with 23andMe. I don’t see how it’s their fault that users reused their passwords from other sites and didn’t turn on Multi-Factor Authentication. In my opinion, they should have forced MFA for people but not doing so doesn’t suddenly make them culpable for users’ poor security practices.
I think most internet users are straight up smooth brained, i have to pull my wife’s hair to get her to not use my first name twice and the year we were married as a password and even then I only succeed 30% of the time, and she had the nerve to bitch and moan when her Walmart account got hacked, she’s just lucky she didn’t have the cc attached to it.
And she makes 3 times as much as I do, there is no helping people.
Lately I try to get people to use Chrome’s built-it password manager. It’s simple and it works across platforms.
I get that people aren’t a fan of Google, and I’m not either, but this is a reasonable option that would be better than what the vast majority of people are doing now…
That’s what I’m getting at. It’s an upgrade for most users and certainly novices. I thought I was being cleaver with a password manager and they got hacked twice (you know who).
internet userspeople
I agree, by all accounts 23andMe didn’t do anything wrong, however could they have done more?
For example the 14,000 compromised accounts.
- Did they all login from the same location?
- Did they all login around the same time?
- Did they exhibit strange login behavior like always logged in from California, suddenly logged in from Europe?
- Did these accounts, after logging in, perform actions that seemed automated?
- Did these accounts access more data than the average user?
In hindsight some of these questions might be easier to answer. It’s possible a company with even better security could have detected and shutdown these compromised accounts before they collected the data of millions of accounts. It’s also possible they did everything right.
A full investigation makes sense.
I already said they could have done more. They could have forced MFA.
All the other bullet points were already addressed: they used a botnet that, combined with the “last login location” allowed them to use endpoints from the same country (and possibly even city) that matched that location over the course of several months. So, to put it simply - no, no, no, maybe but no way to tell, maybe but no way to tell.
A full investigation makes sense but the OP is about 23andMe’s statement that the crux is users reusing passwords and not enabling MFA and they’re right about that. They could have done more but, even then, there’s no guarantee that someone with the right username/password combo could be detected.
Credential stuffing is an attack which is well known and that organizations like 23andme definitely should have in their threat model. There are mitigations, such as preventing compromised credentials to be used at registration, protecting from bots (as imperfect as it is), enforcing MFA etc.
This is their breach indeed.
They did. They had MFA available and these users chose not to enable it. Every 23andMe account is prompted to set up MFA when they start. If people chose not to enable it and then someone gets access to their username and password, that is not 23andMe’s fault.
Also, how do you go about “preventing compromised credentials” if you don’t know that the credentials are compromised ahead of time? The dataset in question was never publicly shared. It was being sold privately.
The fact that they did not enforce 2fa on everyone (mandatory, not just having the feature enabled) is their responsibility. You are handling super sensitive data, credential stuffing is an attack with a super low level of complexity and high likelihood.
Similarly, they probably did not enforce complexity requirements on passwords (making an educated guess vere), or at least not sufficiently, which is also their fault.
Regarding the last bit, it might noto have helped against this specific breach, but we don’t know that. There are companies who offer threat intelligence services and buy data breached specifically to offer this service.
Anyway, in general the point I want to make is simple: if your only defense you have against a known attack like this is a user who chooses a strong and unique password, you don’t have sufficient controls.
I guess we just have different ideas of responsibility. It was 23andMe’s responsibility to offer MFA, and they did. It was the user’s responsibility to choose secure passwords and enable MFA and they didn’t. I would even play devil’s advocate and say that sharing your info with strangers was also the user’s responsibility but that 23andMe could have forced MFA on accounts who shared data with other accounts.
Many people hate MFA systems. It’s up to each user to determine how securely they want to protect their data. The users in question clearly didn’t if they reused passwords and didn’t enable MFA when prompted.
My idea is definitely biased by the fact that I am a security engineer by trade. I believe a company is ultimately responsible for the security of their users, even if the threat is the users’ own behavior. The company is the one able to afford a security department who is competent about the attacks their users are exposed to and able to mitigate them (to a certain extent), and that’s why you enforce things.
Very often companies use “ease” or “users don’t like” to justify the absence of security measures such as enforced 2fa. However, this is their choice, who prioritize not pissing off (potentially) a small % of users for the price of more security for all users (especially the less proficient ones). It is a business choice that they need to be accountable for. I also want to stress that despite being mostly useless, different compliance standards also require measures that protect users who use simple or repeated passwords. That’s why complexity requirements are sometimes demanded, or also the trivial bruteforce protection with lockout period (for example, most gambling licenses require both of these, and companies who don’t enforce them cannot operate in a certain market). Preventing credentials stuffing is no different and if we look at OWASP recommendation, it’s clear that enforcing MFA is the way to go, even if maybe in a way that it does not trigger all the time, which would have worked in this case.
It’s up to each user to determine how securely they want to protect their data.
Hard disagree. The company, i.e. the data processor, is the only one who has the full understanding of the data (sensitivity, amount, etc.) and a security department. That’s the entity who needs to understand what threat actors exist for the users and implement controls appropriately. Would you trust a bank that allowed you to login and make bank transfers using just a login/password with no requirements whatsoever on the password and no brute force prevention?
This wasn’t a brute force attack, though. Even if they had brute force detection, which I’m not sure if they don’t or not, that would have done nothing to help this situation as nothing was brute forced in the way that would have been detected. The attempts were spread out over months using bots that were local to the last good login location. That’s the primary issue here. The logins looked legitimate. It wasn’t until after the exposure that they knew it wasn’t and that was because of other signals that 23andMe obviously had in place (I’m guessing usage patterns or automation detection).
Of course this is not a brute force attack, credentials stuffing is different from bruteforcing and I am well aware of it. What I am saying is that the “lockout period” or the rate limiting (useful against brute force attacks) for logins are both security measures that are sometimes demanded from companies. However, even in the case of bruteforcing, it’s the user who picks a “brute-forceable” password. A 100 character password with numbers, letters, symbols and capital letters is essentially not possible to be bruteforced. The industry recognized however that it’s the responsibility of organizations to implement protections from bruteforcing, even though users can already “protect themselves”. So, why would it be different in the case of credentials stuffing? Of course, users can “protect themselves” by using unique passwords, but I still think that it’s the responsibility of the company to implement appropriate controls against this attack, in the same exact way that it’s their responsibility to implement a rate-limiting on logins or a lockout after N failed attempts. In case of stuffing attacks, MFA is the main control that should simply be enforced or at the very least required (e.g., via email - which is weak but better than nothing) when any new pattern in a login emerges (new device, for example). 23andMe failed to implement this, and blaming users is the same as blaming users for having their passwords bruteforced, when no rate-limiting, lockout period, complexity requirements etc. are implemented.
I agree. The people blaming the website are ridiculous here.
It’s just odd that people get such big hate boners from ignorance. Everything I’m reading about this is telling me that 23andMe should have enabled forced MFA before this happened rather than after, which I agree with, but that doesn’t mean this result is entirely their fault either. People need to take some personal responsibility sometimes with their own personal info.
Would bet that you’re a crypto fan.
How much we talking? I’ll take that bet.
Would bet your password includes “password” or something anyone could guess in 10 minutes after viewing your Facebook profile.
Edit: Your l33t hacker name is your mother’s maiden name and the last four of your social, bro. Mines hunter1337, what’s yours?
Why?
The data breach started with hackers accessing only around 14,000 user accounts. The hackers broke into this first set of victims by brute-forcing accounts with passwords that were known to be associated with the targeted customers
Turns out, it is.
What should a website do when you present it with correct credentials?
- IP based rate limiting
- IP locked login tokens
- Email 2FA on login with new IP
IP-based mitigation strategies are pretty useless for ATO and credential stuffing attacks.
These days, bot nets for hire are easy to come by and you can rotate your IP on every request limiting you controls to simply block known bad IPs and data server IPs.
-
The attackers used IPs situated in their victims regions to log in, across months, bypassing rate limiting or region locks / warnings
-
I don’t know if they did but it would seem trivial to just use the tokens in-situ once they managed to login instead of saving and reusing said tokens. Also those tokens are the end user client tokens, IP locking them would make people with dynamic IPs or logged in 5G throw a fuss after the 5th login in half an hour of subway
-
Yeah 2FA should be a default everywhere but people just throw a fuss at the slightest inconvenience. We very much need 2FA to become the norm so it’s not seen as such
2 factor beats the hell outta that “match the horse with the direction of the the arrow 10x” bs
-
So… we are ignoring the 6+ million users who had nothing to do with the 14 thousand users, because convenience?
Not to mention, the use of “brute force” there insinuates that the site should have had password requirements in place.
Please excuse the rehash from another of my comments:
How do you people want options on websites to work?
These people opted into information sharing.
When I set a setting on a website, device, or service I damn sure want the setting to stick. What else would you want? Force users to set the setting every time they log in? Every day?
I admit, I’ve not used the site so I don’t know the answers to the questions I would need, in order to properly respond:
- Were these opt-in or opt-out?
- Were the risks made clear?
- Were the options fine tuned enough that you could share some info, but not all?
From the sounds of it, I doubt enough was done by the company to ensure people were aware of the risks. Because so many people were shocked by what was able to be skimmed.
I’m convinced that everyone pissed at the company for users reusing passwords has a reading comprehension problem because I definitely already answered your first question in the comment you responded to.
I haven’t used the service either - I don’t want more of my data out there. So I can’t answer the other questions.
Users were probably not thinking about the implications of a breach after sharing but it stands to reason that if you share data with an account, and that account gets compromised, your data is compromised.
We’ve all been through several of those from actual hacks at other companies (looking at you, T-Mobile). I refuse to believe people aren’t aware of this general issue by now.
It was credential stuffing. Basically these people were hacked in other services. Those services probably told them “Hey, you need to change your password because our database was hacked” and then they were like “meh, I’ll keep using this password and won’t update my other services that this password and personally identifiable information about myself and my relatives”.
Both are at fault, but the users reusing passwords with no MFA are dumb as fuck.
by brute-forcing accounts with passwords that were known
That’s not what “brute force” means.
Agreed.
Blaming your customers is definitely a strategy. It’s not a good one, but it is a strategy.
BRB deleting my 23AndMe account
OP spreading disinformation.
Users used bad passwords. Their accounts where accessed using their legitimate, bad, passwords.
Users cry about the consequences of their bad passwords.
Yeah, 23AndMe has some culpability here, but the lions share is still in the users themselves
Are you telling me a password of 23AndMe! Is bad? It meets all the requirements.
From these 14,000 initial victims, however, the hackers were able to then access the personal data of the other 6.9 million million victims because they had opted-in to 23andMe’s DNA Relatives feature.
How exactly are these 6.9M users at fault? They opted in to a feature of the platform that had nothing to do with their passwords.
On top of that, the company should have enforced strong passwords and forced 2FA for all accounts. What they’re doing is victim blaming.
users knowingly opted into a feature that had a clear privacy risk.
Strong passwords often aren’t at issue, password re-use is. If un-{salted, hashed} passwords were compromised in a previous breach, then it doesn’t matter how strong those passwords are.
Every user who was compromised:
- Put their DNA profile online
- Opted to share their information in some way
A further subset of users failed to use a unique and strong password.
A 2FA token (think Matrix) might have helped here, other than that, individuals need to take a greater responsibility for personal privacy. This isn’t an essential service like water, banking, electricity etc. This is a place to upload your DNA profile…
As I said elsewhere, the company implemented this feature and apparently did not do absolutely jack about the increased risk of account compromise deriving from it. If I would sit in a meeting discussing this feature I would immediately say that accounts which share data with others are way too sensitive and at least these should have 2fa enforced. If you don’t want it, you don’t share data. Probably the company does not have a good security culture and this was not done.
Users used bad passwords. Their accounts where accessed using their legitimate, bad, passwords.
Just as an anecdotal counterpoint, I am a 23andMe customer who did receive notification of my account was accessed and personal information obtained.
This was my password at the time: 7Kk5bXjIdfB25
That password was auto-generated for me by the BitWarden app.
So for what it’s worth I don’t think my password was a ‘bad’ password.
Your direct account was accessed or some of your information was access through a compromised account? those are big differences and from what I’ve read only the latter should have been possible. and in my opinion, not such a big deal.
How am I spreading disinformation? I just contributed an article I found interesting for discussion.
It’s worth noting that OP simply used the article title.
The article title is a little biased, individuals must take greater personal responsibility.
I don’t know title etiquette in this forum. I used the author’s title because it is their article, not mine, and thus their opinion/research/AI output.
Oh no, I was just pointing it out for others. I think using the title post is perfectly reasonable.
Thank you for posting, I found it interesting.
The lions share IMHO is at 23&me. Offering such a poorly secured service is negligence, in the face of the data’s high sensitivity nature.
deleted by creator
Reusing credentials is their fault. Sure, 23&me should’ve done better, but someone was likely to get fucked, and if you’re using the same password everywhere it is objectively your fault. Get a password manager, don’t make the key the same compromised password, and stop being stupid.
I would say it’s partially their fault. IMHO 23&me is mainly to blame. They should’ve enforced (proper) 2FA. Sure, people should’ve known better, but they didn’t; they oftenly don’t. But 23&me did know better.
Edit: spelling
23andMe admitted that hackers had stolen the genetic and ancestry data of 6.9 million users
I’m honestly asking what the impact to the users is from this breach. Wasn’t 23andMe already free to selling or distribute this data to anybody they wanted to, without notifying the users?
That’s not how this works. They are running internationally, and GDPR would hit them like a brick if they did that.
I would assume they had some deals with law enforcement to transmit data one narrow circumstances.
I’m honestly asking what the impact to the users is from this breach.
Well if you signed up there and did an ancestry inquiry, those hackers can now without a doubt link you to your ancestry. They might be able to doxx famous people and in the wrong hands this could lead to stalking, and even more dangerous situations. Basically everyone who is signed up there has lost their privacy and has their sensitive data at the mercy of a criminal.
This is different. This is a breach and if you have a company taking care of such sensitive data, it’s your job to do the best you can to protect it. If they really do blame this on the users, they are in for a class action and hefty fine from the EU, especially now that they’ve established even more guidelines towards companies regarding the maintenance of sensitive data. This will hurt on some regard.
If they really do blame this on the users
It’s not that they said:
It’s your fault your data leaked
What they said was (paraphrasing):
A list of compromised emails/passwords from another site leaked, and people found some of those worked on 23andme. If a DNA relative that you volunteered to share information with was one of those people, then the info you volunteered to share was compromised to a 3rd party.
Which, honestly?
Completely valid. The only way to stop this would be for 23andme to monitor these “hack lists” and notify any email that also has an account on their website.
Side note:
Any tech company can provide info if asked by the police. The good ones require a warrant first, but as data owners they can provide it without a warrant.
That’s not 23 and me fault at all then. Basically boils down to password reuse. All i would say is they should have provided 2fa if they didn’t.
The only way to stop this would be for 23andme to monitor these “hack lists”
Unfortunately, from the information that I’ve seen, the hack lists didn’t have these credentials. HIBP is the most popular one and it’s claimed that the database used for these wasn’t posted publicly but was instead sold on the dark web. I’m sure there’s some overlap with previous lists if people used the same passwords but the specific dataset in this case wasn’t made public like others.
“users negligently recycled and failed to update their passwords following these past security incidents, which are unrelated to 23andMe…Therefore, the incident was not a result of 23andMe’s alleged failure to maintain reasonable security measures,”
This is a failure to design securely. Breaking into one account via cred stuffing should give you access to one account’s data, but because of their poor design hackers were able to leverage 14,000 compromised accounts into 500x that much data. What that tells me is that, by design, every account on 23andMe has access to the confidential data of many, many other accounts.
It’s terrible design. If they know their users are going to do this, they’re supposed to work around that. Not leave it as a vulnerability.
Giving your genetic info to them is the first mistake
I see this trend of websites requesting your identification and all i think is: i don’t even trust my own government with a copy why the hell should i trust a business?
Instant skip.
Bro just don’t have DNA.
If you were really on your sigma grindset, your DNA would have never existed.
More of a gamma grindset since if you get hit by enough of those rays, you might not have recognizable DNA anymore.
…this checks out. Gamma grindset origin story.
Too late man…
They’re right. It the customer’s fault for giving them the data in the first place.
But hear me out, I have no control over my cousin or aunt or some random relative getting one of these tests and now this shitty company has a pretty good idea what a large chunk of my DNA looks like. If people from both sides of my family do it they have an even better idea what my genetic profile looks like. That’s not my fault, I never consented to it, and it doesn’t seem ok.
If your credit card information gets stolen because someone stole it from a website you bought something off of, is that your fault?
I can change my credit card. I can’t change my dna. This wasn’t even for any medical reasons. 23andme is just a vanity service.
And what of the money lost? Should the credit card company say “well you’re an idiot that gave sensitive information to some company, we’re not going to help you?” It’s still victim blaming.
In reality, yes. If the data breach because users were reusing passwords, then they are partially at fault. If someone gets rear ended by a drunk driver and their injuries could have been limited by by wearing a seatbelt, then yes. They are partially at fault for it. People who don’t wear their seatbelts are the same types that reuse passwords. They don’t think it will happen to them and take their luck up to that point for granted.
I have a relative who did it.
But they are super into genealogy.
At this point, to go deeper, they would need to learn a new language and travel half way across the world.
I was not consulted before this was done. I would have cautioned against it.
Bad analogy. The only people who had their information exposed are people who reused passwords and people who decided to make their info semi-public. It’s more like deciding to tell all your cousins and 2nd cousins your credit card info and one of them leaked it.
I SHOULD NOT BE GETTING GASLIT FOR WHAT SEEMED LIKE A NEAT IDEA AT THE TIME
Absolutely; and this is another example in a long list which should serve as a lesson for people to not share their personal data with any company if possible. Yet, I feel that lesson will never be learned.
deleted by creator
Gentle reminder to plop your email address in here and see if you, much like 14,000 23andMe users, have had an account compromised somewhere. Enable two-factor where you can and don’t reuse passwords.
Welp my two gmail address have been pwned. Good thing I don’t use them and I have limited use of Google services.
Just to clarify; It doesn’t necessarily mean that your Google account password is compromised. It lists data breaches of services where you used the provided email to register. The password you chose for that service at the time of the breach has been compromised. If you don’t use the same password everywhere, or changed your password after the breach, your other accounts are not compromised.
Also, as OP said, use two-factor authentication. And please also use a password manager.
I understand that. I use KeePassXC and love it. I just notice that those gmail accounts get all the spam so I abandoned them.
It’s saying I’ve been hacked on websites I’ve legitimately never even heard of, websites I have 100% never interacted with. Is this just a normal consequence of companies sharing all my data with other companies?
I can’t speak to how you ended up on the list. The way haveibeenpwned works is that they crawl publicly available credential dumps and grab the associated usernames/emails for each cred pair. However it got there, your email ended up in one of those dumps. Recommend you change your passwords, make sure you don’t repeat the same password across multiple sites and use a password manager so you don’t have to remember dozens of passwords yourself.
I wonder if they can identify a genetic predisposition that these patients had that made them more prone to compromising their passwords? And then if so, was it REALLY their fault?
Should probably ask OP!
They seems to be in the same boat based on this submission…
It’s proper etiquette to use the wording from the title when posting an article. OP did everything right.
I mean if you use the same weak password on all websites, even a strong password, it is your fault in a legitimate way. Not your fault for the fact it was leaked or found out or the company having shit security practices, but your fault for not having due diligence given the current state of online security best practices.
Well its also their fault for falling for 23andMe because its basically a scam. The data is originally self-selected data sets then correlating a few markers tested once, to match you to their arbitrary groups, isn’t exactly how genetics work is done.
Its actually cheap as, maybe cheaper to get 50x full genome sequencing from a company that actually doesn’t sell your data; where 23andMe business model was running a few marker tests to appease their audience they kept in the dark of how modern genetics works; then keep the same for full genome sequencing later because that shit only gets more valuable over time.
Its what makes genetics weird. A sample taken 10 years ago, will reveal so much more about you 5 years from now, like massively more.
