Democratic control over the means of production by workers
I like working and feeling like I’m helping others or working towards a larger goal without the constant ever present exploitation of myself and others.
I’ve lived in a country with socialism for my entire life, and have studied the laws in my own and other countries without socialism.
I will talk about socialism as it is in Scandinavia, more specifically Denmark. Here’s a few things other than paid education and free healthcare:
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Getting paid to study: You get paid to study as soon as you turn 18. In that way you don’t need a job while you studying. Basic salary when living away from parents: 1.000 USD/month.
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UBI: In Denmark we have UBI for people being poor, basically. If you don’t have a job, is sick and can’t work, or any other reason you might be screwed, you get paid by the government to… well yeah, exist basically. You have to meet some requirements and actively trying to get better or find a job though, which seems fair I think. If the government thinks it’s not possible to get better, you can get the money permanently for the rest of your life without doing anything. (this is used for people with disabilities, both mental and physical, both born with it or obtained later in life)
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Shared heating system: This is maybe the biggest “socialism” thing I can mention. In Denmark your house or apartment can be hooked up to a country wide heating system, which means we all share the same heat. This is a way to make heat distribution centralised, which has major advantages such as; price, availability, maintenance. (Fun fact: every data center build in Denmark needs to be hooked up to this system, as they will “donate” all their excess heat from their servers to the central heating system)
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Flex jobbing: If you are no longer able to work 37 hours a week, you can be a flex worker. This basically means that you can work 15 hours a week and still get paid a full salary. The government will cover the rest of the pay and also cover some expenses for the company having the flex worker. This system is great for peoples mental health, as they still can feel a part of society even though they can’t work full time. While they still can live a worthy life because their pay is fine. It’s a win-win for the country, the companies and the people needing this.
I could go on, but I don’t want to be that guy praising my own country all the time. We Scandinavians tend to do that.
Sounds like the Danish welfare system is more robust than the one we have here in Sweden - however, I would like to point out that what we have is not socialism. The central ethos of socialism is the collective ownership of the means of production (usually through the government), and our economies are first and foremost rather successful capitalist mixed market economies with strong regulations and a certain degree of government ownership in limited (usually critical) areas of society. With the help of our capitalist economies, we create and tax the wealth and productivity needed to fund a rather robust welfare system.
In general Sweden and Denmark is mostly run the same way. Non of the countries are pure socialism, but they are sure very successful on physical and mental well-being for their citizens, and giving them a high living standard because of this welfare driven from ideologies of socialism.
Yeah but it’s scary seeing the radical stuff starting to creep in the cracks. I moved to Denmark from the US and reading the news sometimes on politics raises an eyebrow or two.
Denmark is not socialist, nor is it capitalist. It like essentially every other “capitalist” country is a mixed economy. In some aspects countries like the US are more “socialist” like in agricultural policy.
Can you explain how the US has a more socialist agricultural policy? I don’t think I’m familiar with it.
US agriculture policy isn’t Socialist in that workers control the production, but “socialist” in the since that the government controls the markets through subsidies.
For example, in the 70s their was a crash in dairy prices. To the point where farmers were dumping milk down the drain. (yay capitalism) The Carter admin, seeing the dairy industry as essential to national security (dairy was a way bigger part of the diet back then), bought massive amounts of milk at above market price to keep the farmers afloat.
You may have heard of “government cheese” as a pejorative toward welfare. Well, that’s where the cheese came from, all that milk that the government owned. People remember the children that got free cheese, but not the farmers who got government cash.
Yep correct, even still they encourage limiting production.
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that it holds that social practices are created from social practice and not inherited from immutable law, enabling criticism of the underlying machinations of society without being hindered by the argument that such machinations are an inherited and instinctual product of nature and thus unalterable.
Personal greed cannot grow to unlimited dimensions.
Well, under a free market system it can’t because of competition. Under a centrally-controlled system, greed can run unchecked in the environment of total control.
It’s one of the better -isms currently available.
Workers owning the means of production is the way it should be. Until we can mature further.
The part where the workers own the means of production.
I like that the government is financially able to provide social services above and beyond anything Americans are used to. Those services are a reliable way to help out neighbors.
There’s no reason for any American to be unhoused, hungry, uneducated, or in need of healthcare. If wealth taxes were implemented, 95% of Americans wouldn’t have any more money taken from them than they already do and it would do so much for millions and millions of Americans.
A socialistic society lifts up the people that need it most and doesn’t hurt anyone in a way that they can’t cope with. And moreover, some studies estimate that helping out those poorest Americans allows them to add value to society in ways that makes up for the wealthy people and corporations getting taxed heavier.
I like the idea of a deliberate and rational society. Unfortunately we need to be cautious with this kind of thing and pay attention to where others have failed in the past.
The idea behind it, making life that little bit more fair. It wouldn’t work, but as miguided as it might be, it’s born of empathy and that’s worth something.
Why wouldn’t it work?
I don’t think that socialism offers people enough incentive to innovate and improve, because it greatly limits the possible reward. I’m all in favour of regulating capitalism to protect the lower classes though, I don’t want to be enslaved by the likes of amazon either.
Capitalism is barely a few hundred years old. Invention is as old as human history. The Soviet’s despite the brutal social oppression and mass murder. Beat us at every step of the space race save for the last. Researched and discovered a number of the elements of the periodic table. And many many more things.
That you think people invent things only looking for a reward or payout. Really screams that you don’t understand inventors or invention. Nikola Tesla one of the greatest inventors of the 20th century. Died destitute chasing his inventions, with little focus on getting paid.
I could go on. But I hope reality and history generally disagreeing with you is enough to make you reevaluate the propaganda. You’ve been inundated with all your life. Capitalism does little to actually help invention. And people would do it even if they never got paid.
Capitalism was the first economic system ever devised, outside of trading without currency. We know that ancient rome was economically fundamentally capitalist, so that’s a few thousand years at least. And inventing is one thing, but inventions need to be turned into products, which then need to be manufactured and distributed and all of that. And don’t forget about the materials needed for that, which need to be mined and processed. And I can speak from my own experience when I say that if being better at work wouldn’t lead to me making more money, then I’d be slacking off as much as possible instead of being invested in getting things done.
Better work leads to better reward in capitalism, which is by far the most effective method of incetivising people to actually do any work at all. But we sure can agree that the system has been perverted out of proportion and that change needs to happen, I have no illusions about that. We just need to go back to functioning capitalism.
False. Capitalism itself grew out of mercantilism. Which itself rose out of feudalism. Markets and currency predate capitalism. 18th century philosopher Adam Smith is basically seen as the father of capitalism. And no, Rome was never capitalist. Please do some basic reading.
No, better work leads to nothing specific in capitalism. It sometimes “can”. But the fact that nearly everyone knows someone who’s failed upwards. Well everyone knows one. Donald Trump alone disproves your claim.
I’m reasonably certain you’re mixing up capitalism with a free market. Free markets are a feature of capitalism but it’s not the only system that has free markets. Socialism also has free markets.
It addresses the crudeness of the hand that deals some people, rather than assume equal opportunism is automatic.
To me, it’s all about rational return on investment providing economic incentives to achieve what we want to achieve.
My favorite example to explain what I mean is my own personal health insurance. I have a chronic medical condition that requires constant medication, frequent visits to specialists, and expensive medical tests and procedures. There is simply zero chance that I will ever pay enough in a monthly premium to cover what I cost. Meaning I am always a net financial loss for a private, for-profit insurance company.
This gives a private company every incentive in the world to obstruct and deny my care in hopes that I’ll get frustrated and give up, or maybe even die and get off their books forever.
The government, on the other hand, has a positive financial incentive to keep me healthy. If I am healthy, I am working, paying taxes, buying goods and services that contribute to the economy, and hopefully contributing something beneficial to my community. Only the government (acting as a proxy for “society”) naturally profits from insuring my healthcare.
This is why I believe we should have fully socialized medical care. Because there are some specific things that only the government has natural positive economic incentives that align with what is beneficial for the general public.
Whatever those things are, they should be socialized. And generally those things are basic life sustaining things like food, housing, medicine, education, utilities.
I’m fine with privatized capitalism in a very restricted, heavily regulated niche form. But all the basic necessities should be socialized.
I’ve always said it like this:
“Socialism for the things we need. Capitalism for the things we want.”
GOP death cult be like, “Hear me out, do you really NEED to live though?”
What do you like about capitalism?
It makes me feel like I fit in on internet discussions!! We’re on the same team :)))
justice
