“Sorry the cameras malfunctioned and 4 of the guards destroyed the documents then committed suicide. Nothing is to be done here.”
Something something Panama Papers…
I bet that Venn diagram is a circle.
The Panama Papers weren’t swept under a rug, you just didn’t follow news on them.
Also Epstein 100% killed himself, and unsealing this info won’t tell you anything meaningful, because predators who hide among the rich don’t fucking tell every person they meet that they’re a predator.
Conspiracy theories are never a good look on anyone.
I’m not real big on conspiracy theories.
The video being lost around the original attempt is rather suspect, but him finding something to hang himself with again… He should have been in a paper gown in a padded room. We have tons and tons of suicidal people in asylums and jail that are not given an opportunity to hang themselves.
Someone as high profile as him and with a cell mate?
I’m not saying he 100% didn’t kill himself, but It sure as hell looks like somebody went through a lot of trouble to provide him opportunity.
The hidden people on the list that makes this list so inconsequential are the same exact people with the type of reach it would need to make sure he didn’t start naming names.
He doesn’t need to name names, because they have his computers, documents, etc. This conspiracy theory is as full of holes as QAnon shit.
Yeah, no need to answer anything I point out just put your hands over your ears and tell me I’m QANON and full of shit that’ll really make your point and help your position here.
Come to think of it maybe there’s a reason you’re getting all the down votes…
“Conspiracy theories” have ironically enough become weaponized as a thought terminating cliche. Am I supposed to not wonder what about his guards and what they were doing, or the camera feeds, or the people getting paid six figures to handle his case, or the dozens of other loose ends?
There are enormous efforts being taken to gaslight people out of their curiosity about this case.
I also responded to your “points”
The downvotes are just “rich people bad” shit, same as ever.
Rich people are bad
Epstein 0% killed himself. See? I can assert things with no evidence as well. The whole thing reeks from start to finish and I have no idea how anyone can be completely confident in what happened either way.
I agree with you on the papers (been following that story since it broke), and I’ll agree that I probably would’ve offed myself in his position as well, but there were some pretty unprobable shit happening around his death unless I’ve been misled hard. I mean the guy was on suicide watch, wasn’t he? It’s at the very least suspect as hell that it happened like it did.
there were some pretty unprobable shit happening around his death unless I’ve been misled hard
This is definitely true. But then, 9/11 was pretty improbable too, and was definitely not an inside job.
He was taken off suicide watch shortly before his suicide.
Fair enough, I didn’t know he was taken off suicide watch. Makes one wonder why, though. It’s not like his circumstances changed.
But we’ll likely never know anyway, so I don’t quite understand why you’re getting so much flack for shit that is ultimately academic at this point. Don’t get me wrong, as I think his victims deserve to know as much as possible, but at this point we’re getting into Jimmy Hoffa territory with this shit.
There are people who collect and document the information from the Epsteins of the world for blackmail. It was how Hoover built the FBI. I am not claiming that Epstein was murdered, but anyone who tries to cash in on the information that Epstein had, would have information that destroys lives. Desperate people do act desperately. I would guess that little ‘conspiracies’ abound, as people try to not be outed; using non-disclosure agreements, for example.
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It doesn’t matter if you’re being truthful. If you’re being a smug dickhead and talking down to people to feed your sense of superiority, I will downvote.
There are enough of those in the fediverse as it is, we don’t need any more incentives.
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And deniers of the obvious may continue sucking the CIA’s cock.
But re Gary Webb. You are correct. He totally committed suicide by shooting himself in the head. Twice.
He totally committed suicide by shooting himself in the head. Twice.
This, but unironically. That’s why his wife corroborates it.
Here’s a clue to avoiding conspiracy theories: if it is something you really want to be true because it feels right, it probably isn’t true and is instead spread around by other people with that same feeling.
Most conspiracy theories are bullshit, no doubt. But not all of them are, and it’s pretty hard to judge which might be true by the claims alone, because by nature they are pretty fantastical.
In 1974 before the Church Committee revealed it, you’d have dismissed anyone telling you about MKUltra and I wouldn’t blame you.
But it really did happen.
Did Epstein kill himself? Probably? But the circumstances are definitely eyebrow raising…
But the circumstances are definitely eyebrow raising…
This is pretty much how all conspiracy theories thrive: take something suspicious, put a story into the holes in between the facts we know that confirms what we want to believe is true, and then ignore or ridiculously explain away any evidence that contradicts the hypothesis.
Does logic > feelings?
Better way to say it is that Occam 's Razor slices conspiracy theories to shreds.
To shreds, I say
If you think Epstein’s death was not ridiculously suspicious, I’m sorry, you the tard.
Why this list was ever sealed to begin with is beyond me.
Because powerful people were his associates. I’m surprised it is being unsealed.
I’m not surprised it was ordered to be unsealed. I’ll be more than a little surprised if an accurate list is actually unsealed. But, anything’s possible I guess.
“Those on the list were allowed to redact whatever parts they liked”
Deborah Jeane Palfrey has entered the chat.
I swear I remember seeing news stories at the time saying that she’d specifically told family members: I’m not planning to kill myself, but I am threatening to release the identities of powerful men who made use of my services. If I die it’s because they killed me.But now, all I can find is that it was clearly a suicide. Oh well.
Edit: Someone argued with me enough about it that I actually tried to read up on it, and I think what I was remembering was that Alex Jones said that if she died it’s because they killed her, and some people reported on that, along with some carefully cherry-picked quotes from her interview on his show. She did say that she wasn’t planning to kill herself, but only because he directly asked her as part of his normal Alex Jones shtick, and of course she said “no.” But she never said that on any other program, as far as I can tell, and everyone reliable who investigated concluded that the suicide was probably real. So the mystery is resolved. Sounds like she killed herself. 😢 At least I learned something today.
She actually said the exact opposite. From your link:
Palfrey’s two handwritten notes were released to the public. In one of them, she wrote to her sister, “You must comprehend there was no way out, I.E. ‘exit strategy,’ for me other than the one I have chosen here.” In another, she described her predicament as a “modern-day lynching”. She said she feared that, at the end of serving her sentence, she would be “in my late 50s a broken, penniless and very much alone woman”.[28][30]
Emphasis mine.
Yes, I read the sources I linked to. Here’s what I said about it:
But now, all I can find is that it was clearly a suicide. Oh well.
What did you think I was talking about, what I said that? If not that the stories I can find now all say it was a legit suicide?
Maybe my memory is faulty, or maybe the suicide note is fake. Which it is, I have no idea.
Seems very unlikely that two handwritten suicide notes could be plausibly faked that well when there are many examples of her handwriting
Entire thing is redacted except a single word that says something lawyer-y like “notwithstanding”.
And any names already public
Well they needed to clean it first before they unsealed it.
Gotta blur some names so they won’t be prosecuted.
I bet there is some catch. The only thing unsealed will be boring stuff. Oh it turns out a company Bill Clinton owned stock in, back in 1991, did some construction work for a property Epstein owned. It isn’t going to be stuff like “here is a video of Justice Thomas raping a kid”.
Most of the names will be innocent people and victims. All of them will be sent death threats and harassed because people will consider them pedophiles. People can’t understand two things at once (Epstein was a socialite and a child trafficker) and they don’t know what being an associate of Epstein implies. There’s good reasons to keep the list private from the masses.
It’s funny that those people will be threatened, but people we know have been involved in bribery at the highest levels of our government are not.
It must be funny, otherwise where’d all these tears on my cheeks come from!? 😂
6th amendment of the US Constitution cuts both ways. People have the right to observe what the government is doing in criminal cases. If the US government is refusing to let the public know what is going on during these procedures the possibility of corruption goes from low to almost certain.
The judge stated some names will be redacted as they were victims. I also doubt someone would interact with Epstein several times and not know. He wasn’t even trying to hide it.
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Probably because being on a list of names is not proof of any wrongdoing or crime but will most definitely be interpreted as such by people on the internet.
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Until another judge says it will stay sealed.
Anyone who did not successfully fight to keep their name out of the civil case could see their name become public – including Epstein’s victims, co-conspirators and innocent associates.
Well, this tells us that we probably won’t see any notable people in the release then…
“Anyone not powerful, rich or politically-connected enough to scrub their names from the record will be shown.”
This is 100% going to fuck all of the victims and none of the perpetrators.
They’ll unseal them but all envelopes contain only an “I Owe You” from Trump, and under his signature he wrote in small font “I declassified them after I took them home”
You know Dems were in that book, too, right?
I don’t think anybody is making this a partisan issue.
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Right, so just a Trump issue, then?
I don’t know how that follows
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If they’re fucking kids send them all to jail, like they did to Matt Gaetz
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Uh-oh, we bout to have a dead judge!
It’s sad that every post the top level comments are these low effort posts. I was really hoping posters like you would just stay with reddit.
It’s sad that every thread at some point has these low effort complaints. I was really hoping you would just stop being boring as hell.
I agree with him, though.
Some of you people are reddit-brained beyond repair.
You people? The fuck do you mean you people? Were you born out the arsehole of Christ himself? Get the fuck outta here with your holier than thou self righteousness. This is a free and open public forum. Don’t like it? Fuck off elsewhere. Poop
I rest my case.
Okay
Thank you for your thoughtful contribution in furthering this conversation, and your exemplary interpersonal skills.
It’s exactly the kind of cynical doomerism I was looking to get away from
It is low effort, but, it’s a likely outcome. Not every comment needs to be a masterful literary work to be relevant.
it’s a likely outcome.
Lol
Also lol @ the idea that there is nothing between these low effort posts and masterful literary work.
Enjoy myopia I guess? Look, it might not be true, but it’s not so far fetched either. Her father appears to be mossad. I don’t know. With more, actual info, we could draw a factual conclusion. I’m not going to blinker myself though for something that’s totally a viable outcome.
Look, it might not be true,
No, almost certainly won’t be true.
And if you think it’s even remotely likely that this will happen, it’s not me being being myopic.
Just totally impossible huh? OK.
Considering you think that “almost certainly” and “totally impossible” are the same thing, I guess your position should come as no surprise.
Hope that judge has real good security.
The judge was shot 400 times, a likely suicide.
Please. He fell onto those bullets at the bottom of an ellevator shaft!
I hope that judge is well protected and this isn’t an edited list of people.
Noam Chomsky once said that his dealings and business with Epstein were none of our business and we should fuck off. I hope we get to find out more about his and other rich people’s dealings with Epstein
Chomsky lost his mind decades ago, he’s for sure on the list and would probably justify it in some pseudoscientific bs way.
Meanwhile advocating for Ukraine to just lay down and die
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There goes the entire Republican Party
The goes the government
It will be real interesting to see who files a motion objecting to the unsealing and appeals it to a higher court.
“What sealed documents?”
At this point it’s a single box with 3 labeled but empty manilla folders, a stack of completely random useless papers, and a spiral bound “2009 workplace ethics” manual.
How come reddit/Lemmy (but especially reddit) seems so obsessed with Epstein? No judgement, just curious
I think it’s because he represents how rich powerful people live under a different set of rules and are seemingly able to get away with almost anything. Compound that with the right wing obsession with human trafficking that usually leans into conspiracy theories that both exaggerate the real issue and somehow only blames “leftist elites”. They hope the Epstein release will finally prove their wacky theorys correct.
Are “associates” and “customers” considered synonyms in legalese? If not, this list may not be as juicy as people think.
what the fuck is an associate
noun /əˈsōsēət,əˈsōSHēət/ 1. a partner or colleague in business or at work.
oh
