• thrawn@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Somehow, I can tolerate “jpheg” much easier than the forsaken “jif.”

    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      “Jif” is the original pronunciation. It is a pun, a play on the word “jif” short for “jiffy” meaning a short amount of time, as in “I’ll send it to you in a gif”. The newer pronunciation has become popular based on the fallacious reasoning that an acronym should be pronounced the same as its constituent words, which isn’t a thing at all.

      Language evolves, and both pronunciations are common enough to be considered acceptable. The only way to be wrong about how to pronounce the word is to claim one of the pronunciations is wrong.

      • merc@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        The newer pronunciation has become popular based on

        The newer pronunciation has become popular based on their internalization of the obscure patterns of English pronunciation, informed by the most similar word: “gift” which uses a hard g. Everyone I know of started saying it with a hard g because that’s what made sense based on the spelling, long before hearing the weird thing about constituent words.

        Nobody pronounced LASER as Lah-seer, which you’d have to do if you used “A as in Amplification” an “E as in Emission”.

        • themeatbridge@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          OK but there are other similar words that start with gi like giraffe and gigolo, but really that’s not why I or anyone I knew in the 90s started using the soft g to say “gif.” We did so because we learned about the format, and said “Neat, what’s it called?” and they said “it’s called a gif” because that was the name of the format. We didn’t debate the pronunciation because it had been given a name, the same way you don’t ask a person you just met “Shouldn’t ‘Bob’ be pronounced with a long ‘o’ like the very similar name ‘Job’? I’m going to call you ‘Bobe’ because that makes more sense to me.” You’d have to be a massive douche to say that out loud to a person who had just introduced themselves.

          If someone said it with the hard “g” we just nodded and went about our day because it doesn’t matter, we knew what they probably meant and they just hadn’t read the manual.

          Pronunciations change over time, and that’s good. Language is a function of communication, and better communication is what enabled humans to transfer knowledge. If someone uses the soft g, you know the word they’re saying, and I know you’re probably not saying the word “gift” from context. We’re communicating either way, and we don’t have to pronounce every word the same.

          Case in point, I don’t say “emission” with a long “e” sound, I say “ehmission” because it doesn’t matter that much.

          The only way to be wrong is to claim that someone else is saying it wrong.

          • merc@sh.itjust.works
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            1 year ago

            “Neat, what’s it called?” and they said “it’s called a gif”

            Yeah, and then we all assumed it was pronounced “gif” not “jif” because the only other word with the letters “gif” was “gift” and that had a hard g. Later on, someone claimed it was supposed to be pronounced “jif”, but we all laughed at that idea and kept using the correct pronunciation.

            We didn’t debate the pronunciation because it had been given a name

            Neither did we, it was a hard g. There was no debate. Sure, some people claimed it was supposed to be a soft g, but we all laughed at that idea because it was ridiculous.

            We didn’t debate the pronunciation because it had been given a name, the same way you don’t ask a person you just met “Shouldn’t ‘Bob’ be pronounced with a long ‘o’ like the very similar name ‘Job’?

            I’m guessing you’re not multilingual then, because I am, and it’s extremely common to change how someone’s name is pronounced. People with the name “David” who are French are used to the French pronunciation of their name being “Dah-veed” but in English “Day-vid”. French people pronounce “Bob” as “Bub”. It’s good to allow people to slightly change how your name is pronounced because it flows better in their language. If they have to pause every time your name comes up to adapt how it’s said, it just makes things more difficult.

            As for “gif”, if someone pronounced it as “jif”, we giggled a bit, but that’s it. It was only if someone was really insistent that it had to be a soft g that we really laughed. Some people tried to claim that the creator of the format had wanted a certain pronunciation, but we knew that didn’t matter.

            Language is a function of communication, and better communication is what enabled humans to transfer knowledge

            Exactly, and part of good communication is good pronunciation, because if you mispronounce things it makes it harder for people to understand you. If you insist on using a nonsensical pronunciation then you’re just trying to make it hard to communicate with you.

            • force@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              That is the most anti-linguistic take ever lmao. There is no such thing as an objectively correct pronunciation, both pronunciations of “gif” are valid in the context of most English conversations.

              On another note, the guy who created it said it’s pronounced /dʒɪf/, so if any pronunciation is more “correct” it’s the one you hate. It’s not “some people tried to claim”, that’s what it actually is “correctly” pronounced like according to the only one that can come close to being considered an authority on what the correct pronunciation is.

              Your comment being so pretentious and stuck-up about you not liking a pronunciation leads me to believe you’re making the whole “we” thing up, and instead of a group of people being dumbasses and laughing at a correct pronunciation, it was just one person (you) malding about it in their head. Because being the kind of person to actually laugh at something like that in real life, face to face, would be too embarrassing for anyone to actually go through with it. God even just reading your comment makes me feel like I’m looking at made-up Reddit stories again…

              Also how people speaking other languages handle names doesn’t have anything to do with this, there’s a big difference between calling someone “wrong” for pronouncing a loanword differently than in the parent language because of the languages’ phonetics & phonotactics not aligning with each other, and insisting that everyone else is “wrong” because their completely linguistically valid, common pronunciation challenges your understanding of the language.

              Oxford uses /dʒɪf/ as the primary pronunciation with /gif/ as the secondary in most of their resources (although a lot don’t specify a primary or secondary), Dictionary.com lists /dʒɪf/ as the primary pronunciation, some like Merriam-Webster list both equally, Cambridge less consistent but list both. Clearly the people who’s job is language disagree with you, even if you don’t want to ask for linguists to tell you, they literally make the language references you use. If you want to be stubborn and insist on being wrong, so be it.

              You can now continue malding about the fact that you use the incorrect pronunciation for the rest of your life, since apparently that’s how you see language.

              • merc@sh.itjust.works
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                1 year ago

                There is no such thing as an objectively correct pronunciation

                But, there are patterns to the language and using a soft “g” sound doesn’t follow those patterns, so it’s objectively a less correct pronunciation.

                the guy who created it

                Who cares about that guy? He made a mistake, he should have looked up how words are pronounced before trying to get people to mispronounce “gif”. If he’d said it was supposed to be pronounced “dug” people would have just ignored him, but his attempt wasn’t that absurd, it was just slightly wrong, so not everyone ignored him the way they should have.

                instead of a group of people being dumbasses and laughing at a correct pronunciation

                It really sounds like you didn’t have friends. The rest of us did.

                Also how people speaking other languages handle names doesn’t have anything to do with this

                Of course it does. How you pronounce things depends on the language you use. How people pronounce the letters “gif” is based on their language. In English, it’s a hard g.

                • force@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  But, there are patterns to the language and using a soft “g” sound doesn’t follow those patterns, so it’s objectively a less correct pronunciation.

                  Who makes these mystical “rules” that English surely follows? And who says the patterns you see are objectively more correct, there are a ton of other words with “g”/“gi” that pronounce it with a /dʒ/, you have to do some real mental gymnastics to justify one of them being more correct. There is a point where you have to paint a massively arbitrary line to which patterns are more “correct”, it is a completely subjective matter.

                  Who cares about that guy?

                  He’s the only one that can be considered an authority on how the word is pronounced LMAO.

                  He made a mistake, he should have looked up how words are pronounced before trying to get people to mispronounce “gif”.

                  Pronunciation isn’t based on spelling, it’s the other way around. Writing is a tool made to accomodate language, and said writing isn’t a pronunciation guide. You’re lobotomized if you think otherwise, especially in English. But regardless, see below.

                  If he’d said it was supposed to be pronounced “dug” people would have just ignored him, but his attempt wasn’t that absurd, it was just slightly wrong, so not everyone ignored him the way they should have.

                  But he didn’t pronounce it like “dug”. He pronounced it consistently with another common 3-letter word “gin”. Is “gin” wrong now? You can cope with being wrong all you want, but it doesn’t make you less wrong.

                  It really sounds like you didn’t have friends. The rest of us did.

                  Yeah no that writing reads like a fake Reddit story, I refuse to believe even the dumbest teenagers would act like that.

                  Of course it does. How you pronounce things depends on the language you use. How people pronounce the letters “gif” is based on their language. In English, it’s a hard g.

                  The English writing system isn’t the English language, and the English writing system isn’t consistent enough to make estimations for a pronunciation like that. The only two words in the language that contain “gif” are “gift” and “fungiform”, plus derivatives of course, the latter of which is generally, by standard, pronounced with a /dʒ/ sound. If you think that’s enough basis to go off of to make rules for every other word containing “gif”, and then insist that your pronunciation is “correct”, that’s a you problem.

                  The same goes for any language – German has mostly-consistent generalized spelling conventions for the language that approximate pronunciation, but a LOT of common words break this convention, including “guken”, “orange”, the ending “-ig”, “toilette”, “vase”, etc. which are pronounced differently than their spelling would lead you to believe. In fact it is most common for Fremdwörter & Lehnwörter to not be spelled typically. Is every German speaker pronouncing those words wrong now? What about Italian languages, which often do the same thing but significantly more? You can look at less and less standardized languages that contain more and more irregularities, until you get to a language like English and see that the “irregularities” in the writing system completely outweigh any actual “regularities” you see and it becomes completely pointless to try to enforce a pronunciation based on a certain spelling. It’s why people learning a language like English or Tibetan or even Danish will have often cite the spelling as an extreme pain point (I can corroborate the first based on my experience teaching ESL), it is an inconsistent orthography where the spelling is almost entirely dependent on the etymology or something else, rather than any current pronunciation.

                  It’s also convenient how you left out the entire part about the dictionaries. Almost as if that was a silver bullet for your flawed argument and you can’t acknowledge it because it would make you look too crazy. Because the people who are the most looked up on for “correct” language by most English speakers say you’re wrong. Hmmm.

                  When you consider that a large number of words in English which are spelled the same have different pronunciations or are pronounced wildly phonemically differently by different speakers or in different dialects, like “minute”, “combat”, “perfect”, “read”, “bass”, “close”, “agape”, “object”, “sewer”, “wind”, “wound”… “apricot”, “leisure”, “often”, “crayon”, “either”, “been”, “caramel”, “garage”, “yogurt”… your argument about pronunciation based on “spelling rules” falls apart pretty quickly.

                  Present your argument on how English works to any linguists or even anyone who has basic knowledge of linguistics and you’ll be laughed out of the room.

  • Furbag@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    It’s pronounced Gif, with a soft G as in Graphics.

    I don’t give a fuck what the idiot creator thinks it should be pronounced as, I’ll die on this hill with my honor intact, surrounded by the corpses of everyone who thinks Jif is referring to anything but peanut butter.

  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    We should just go ahead and pronounce all acronyms the way their unabbreviated forms’ first syllable letters are said. Just ignore we treat individual letters differently than the words they came from.

    The CIA should sound like “see ya” Department of Transportation “Duht” Internal Revenue Service “ears”

    Etc.

  • Surp@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    Say gift. Now what you’re going to do next is leave out the T but enunciate the gif part the same way. Fuck you jif people!

    • ShortFuse@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Say gigantic. Now what you’re going to do next is stop with your ANTICs and enunciate the gig the same way.

      • irish_link@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        Gin like Gin and Tonic. Use Gin instead next time. Don’t get me wrong I will forever call it gif(t) however to help you with your position using a 3 letter word may help.

        You may be explaining how superficial the Gift argument is by making it a much longer thing to take off but figured if you ever use it in a real way or argument you may want this one in your back pocket as well.

        • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          The whole thing is funny when you look at the full phrase too. Graphical Interchange Format – it’s got both a hard g and a soft g. You could call a gif an image. You could also call it a graphic.

          At the end of the day, there really isn’t an answer, and there never will be. It’s a fun debate to fuck around with though