If you ever needed a lesson in the difference between power and authority, this is a good one.
The leaders of this coup read the rules and saw that they could use the board to remove Altman, they had the authority to make the move and “win” the game.
It seems that they, like many fools mistook authority for power. The “rules” said they could do it! Alas they did not have the power to execute the coup. All the rules in the world cannot make the organization follow you.
Power comes from people who grant it to you. Authority comes from paper. Authority is the guidelines for the use of power, without power, it is pointless.
Well, surely it’s premature to be making grand statements like this until it actually causes a reversal?
Yeah, but he’s like 15 years old. All the moral/ethical fallout he’s ever seen have been in movies and tv shows. Let the kid dream.
People don’t need to be old to make a good point
Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic ceremony.
Strange women, lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for government!
Hahaha, I was missing that quote a few posts higher
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You don’t vote for kings.
You can’t expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you!
I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they’d put me away!
Monty Python, my friend
And my comment is the next line in that exchange.
Pardon me I’m a dunce. I’ll see myself out ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ
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We don’t yet know the cause of this power struggle, so hard to say of they were trying to stage a coup or trying to prevent something else.
But regardless it appears they dun goofed
Well fucking said
Power courses through you… Authority.
The problem is the employees were paid too much. They have too much and aren’t desperate enough. Need to drop that pay going forward
No working 8-5/6 pm employee, making under 100k a year, is being paid too much
One engineer at a company like this produces literally millions of dollars in revenue and savings. Practically no one is paid “too much” and anyone who says they are doesn’t know what they’re talking about. Even if they make over 100k.
I can assure even at 200k the company would still be extracting value from most employees. They pay as little as the market lets them get away with.
The only people who are paid too much at these tech companies are the execs, especially the ones who have no clue what they’re doing and constantly fuck things up.
$200k a year in Silicon Valley isn’t exactly getting anyone a mansion and a yacht.
You’d be surprised.
No I wouldn’t be. I work in HR as a Generalist, BS Graduate for business management and human resources management, AND I do payroll…
I see it first hand who is disadvantaged and who is privileged. I see who deserves raises and who didn’t do squat for the amount they have been paid (executive teams and presidents/owners) … Your opinions on who is paid too much, are misguided…
Your username doesn’t check out as you clearly are not touching grass
🎲 🎲
two Nat 1s?
Snake Eyes?
It’s rather interesting here that the board, consisting of a fairly strong scientific presence, and not so much a commercial one, is getting such hate.
People are quick to jump on for profit companies that do everything in their power to earn a buck. Well, here you have a company that fires their CEO for going too much in the direction of earning money.
Yet every one is all up in arms over it. We can’t have the cake and eat it folks.
It’s my opinion that every single person in the upper levels is this organization is a maniac. They are all a bunch of so-called “rationalist” tech-right AnCaps that justify their immense incomes through the lens of Effective Altruism, the same ideology that Sam Bankman-fried used to justify his theft of billions from his customers.
Anybody with the urge to pick a “side” here ought to think about taking a step back and reconsider; they are all bad people.
even outside the upper tiers, high paid tech workers do mental gymnastics to rationalize the shittiness they do via their companies while calling themselves liberal. motherfuckers will union bust for their company for a larger TC next year then go on LinkedIn or Facebook and spin it like “I successfully destroyed a small town’s economy, killed a union forming in the division I manage, and absolutely threw my coworkers under the bus this year. My poor father swept countless floors until his hands bled so I can be here today and that’s why I support the small working man and will never forget where I came from #boss”
Yep these fucks are all doom cultists, and I bet more than a few of them are nonironically Roko’s simps
Well, here you have a company that fires their CEO for going too much in the direction of earning money.
Yeah, honestly, that’s music to my ears. Imagine a world where organizations weren’t in the business of pursuing capital at any cost.
Sounds like the workers all want to end up with highly valued stocks when it goes IPO. Which is, and I’m just guessing here, the only reason anyone is doing AI right now.
I immediately thought that the board was bad, then read the context…
so are the employees backing Altman because it means more money for the company/them? Or is there another reason?
Is that actually the case? I’ve not seen any actual information yet about what happened or why they did what they did.
If they’ve actually stated that the guy was fired because the company was going too far down the focus on money making route, that would be huge news I’d be really interested in hearing.
Even if I agree with the decision that doesn’t mean I agree with how the decision was carried out.
From the outside, this story plays out like a bunch of snivelling family members of a lottery winner who plotted to steal all his money and throw him out, because he’s “not candid”.
The rest of the family, who also lived with the guy, clearly don’t agree and are now demanding that the thieves turn themselves in.
I mean, sure they may even have real reasons to kick him out, but man did they fuck this one up…
I’d like to know why exactly the board fired Altman before I pass judgment one way or the other, especially given the mad rush by the investor class to re-instate him. It makes me especially curious that the employees are sticking up for him. My initial intuition was that MSFT convinced Altman to cross bridges that he shouldn’t have (for $$$$), but I doubt that a little more now that the employees are sticking up for him. Something fucking weird is going on, and I’m dying to know what it is.
Wanting to know why is reasonable but it’s sus that we don’t already know. Why haven’t they made that clear? How did they think they could do this without a solid explanation? Why hasn’t one been delivered to set the rumors to rest?
It stinks of incompetence, or petty personal drama. Otherwise we’d know by now the very good reason they had.
If there was something illegal going on, then all parties involved would have incentive to keep it under wraps.
If this circus is what they consider “under wraps” then I don’t know what.
I don’t think msft convinced him with money, but rather opportunity. He clearly still wants to work with AI and 2nd best place for that after openAI is Microsoft
This is the most compelling explanation I’ve seen: https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2023/11/18/pivot-to-ai-replacing-sam-altman-with-a-very-small-shell-script/?n=@
The tone of the blog post is so amateurish I feel like I’m reading a reddit post on r/Cryptocurrency
Don’t get me wrong, this move from the board reeks of some grade A bullshit but this article is absolute crap. Is this supposed to be a serious journalism?
Thanks for sharing. That is… Weird in ways I didn’t anticipate. “Weird cult of pseudointellectuals upending the biggest name in silicon valley” wasn’t on my bingo board.
I don’t know a lot about the background but this article feels super biased against one side.
That was an entertaining read. Thank you.
Even better, though, was this linked article about humans running AI behind the curtain.
https://amycastor.com/2023/09/12/pivot-to-ai-pay-no-attention-to-the-man-behind-the-curtain/
You’re not going to develop AI for the benefit of humanity at Microsoft. If they go there, we’ll know "Open"AI’s mission was all a lie.
Yeah Microsoft is definitely not going to be benevolent. But I saw this as a foregone conclusion since AI is so disruptive that heavy commercialization is inevitable.
We likely won’t have free access like we do now and it will be enshittified like everything else now and we’ll need to pay yet another subscription to even access it.
“Hey Bing AI can I get a recipe that includes cinnamon”
“Sure! Before we begin did you hear about the great Black Friday deals at Sephora”
“Not interested”
“No problem. You’re using query 9 of 20 this month. Do you want to proceed?”
“Yes”
“Before we begin, Bing Max+ has a one month trial starting at just $1 for your first month*. Want to give that a try?”
“Not now”
“No problem. With cinnamon you can make Cinnamon Rolls”
“What else?”
“Sure! You are using query 10 of 20 this month. Before I continue did you hear the McRib is back for a limited time at McDonald’s. (ba, da, ba, ba, ba) I’m lovin’ it.”
You don’t have free access. The best models have always been safeguarded behind paywalls, you have access to parlor tricks and demo shows. This product was born enshittified already. It’s crap that’s only has passable use for mega corporations.
For a while we did with ChatGPT 3.5 before 4.0 came out. I’m not sure what to make of Bing’s AI since they have ulterior motives and is likely a demo for their ultimate form.
We only have free access now because it’s still in development and they’re using our interactions to train from, but when they are on more solid ground I fully expect enshittification.
it will be enshittified like everything else now and we’ll need to pay yet another subscription to even access it.
Yeah this is why I’m so skeptical about the way it will presumably change the world. It will change things, but the economic relations that determine it’s ability to do so will overrule the technological capabilities, since it will be infeasible or not economically viable to deliver on a lot of the hype.
OpenAi’s majority share holder is Microsoft, and they’ve already given OpenAI billions
The way I understand it, Microsoft gave OpenAI $10 billion, but they didn’t get any votes. They had no say in their matters.
MS owns 49% of the for profit subsidiary and has no votes on the non-profit overseeing body.
You also informed the leadership team that allowing the company to be destroyed “would be consistent with the mission.”
You are God damned right that shutting everything down is one of the roles of a non-profit Board focused on AI safety.
It’s supposed to be a nonprofit benefiting humanity, not a pay day for owners or workers. The board isn’t making money off of it.
Giving microsoft control is a bad idea. (duh?)
Giving a single person control is a bad idea, per sam altman.
My take on what happened (we are now at step 8):
- Sam wants to push for more & quicker profit with MS and VC backing, but board resists, constant conflicts
- Sam aligns with MS, hatch a plan on how to gut OpenAI for its know-how, ppl, and tech, leaving the non-profit part bleeding out in the gutter
- Sam & MS set a trap: Sam crosses some red lines, maybe taking commercial decisions without board approval. Potentially there was also some whispering in key ears (e.g, Ilya) by seemingly helpful advisors/VCs to push & pull at the same time on both sides
- Board has enough after Sam doesn’t back down, fires him & other co-founder guy
- MS and VCs go full attack to discredit board. After some info gathering, they realize they have been utterly fucked
- Some chaos, quick decision of appointing/replacing ppl, trying to manage the fire, even talking to Sam (btw this might have been a fallback option for MS, that the board reinstates him with more control and guardrails, weakening the power of the non-profit)
- Sam joins MS, masks are off
- Employees on the sinking ship revolt, even Ilya realizes he was manipulated/fucked
- OpenAI dead, key ppl join MS, tech and rest of the company bought for scraps. Non-profit part dead. Capitalist victory
Source: subjective interpretation/deduction based on the available info and my experience working as a management consultant for 10 years (dealing with lot of exec politics, though nothing this serious)
You’re wrong on point #1. This isn’t being done per Sam Altman for commercial purposes. It’s being done per Microsoft in an attempt to remove the OpenAI board completely. Facebook recently shutdown its AI Ethics division.
All of this is happening in conjunction with each other. Large corporations are trying to privatize AI and using key personnel in the industry to make it seem like a good thing. This wasn’t just Sam Altman. Whoever drafted the letter demanding the board steps down is working with Microsoft to do this.
More than likely, that group went around spreading doomsday to the other employees in an attempt to scare them into fleeing the company.
Sam Altman is just a pawn.
This is precisely the take I’ve been coming to on this. It fits all the fuckery going on. You can rest assured there is nothing in writing that can back this up, but one day there will be an unrelated lawsuit where it all comes out.
This is exactly my thoughts on it too, unfortunately.
You might very well be correct. The thing that people need to remember is that just because something involves conspiracy doesn’t mean that it’s false. The more people required to be involved in a conspiracy is typically what makes it false. I think it is very within human nature. Especially those of programmers who have traditionally been better treated and paid than most other workers. To side with the profit motive against actual altruism. It’s the tech bro thing to do. I’m going to wait and see what happens. Not take any sides. Even though typically I’m always for supporting the workers.
They have a for profit arm in addition to the non profit.
More like a for profit arm ruled by an non profit head.
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So they paid Kenyan workers $2 an hour to sift through some of the darkest shit on the internet.
Ugh.
They could have just given 4chan a $1 bounty per piece and they would have gleefully delivered until Lambo.
They are problaby the ones writing those pieces literature
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That’s actually about 3x what the average Kenyan makes, sadly.
This reminds me of an NPR podcast from 5 or 6 years ago about the people who get paid by Facebook to moderate the worst of the worst. They had a former employee giving an interview about the manual review of images that were CP andrape related shit iirc. Terrible stuff
I’m shocked and I shouldn’t be… Poor people
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They could be working with the governments of relevant countries to develop filters and detection systems.
I’m sure there’s some loophole there, maybe between countries’ laws. And if there isn’t, Hey! We’ll make one!
Isn’t CSAM classed as images and videos which depict child sexual abuse? Last time I checked written descriptions alone did not count, unless they were being forced to look at AI generated image prompts of such acts?
IIRC there are a few legitimate and legal reasons to seek CSAM, such as journalism, and definitely developing methods to prevent it’s spread.
I really find this a bit alarmist and exaggerated. Consider the motive and the alternative. You really think companies like that have any other options than to deal with those things?
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Very much yes police authorities have CSAM databases. If what you want to do with it really is above board and sensible they’ll let you access that stuff.
I don’t doubt anything that OpenAI could do with that stuff can be above board, but sensible is another question: Any model that can detect something can be used to train a model which can generate it. As such those models are under lock and key just like their training sets, (social) media platforms which have a use for these things and the resources run them, under the watchful eye of the authorities. Think faceboogle. OpenAI could, in principle, try to get into the business of selling companies at that scale models they can, and have, trained themselves, I don’t really see that making sense from the business POV, either.
The biopic on this whole thing is going to be hilarious. The rumors are that the board didn’t like how fast the CEO is moving with AI and they’re afraid of consequences of possible AGI (which I don’t think these new LLMs are even close to) but that doesn’t feel like what modern boards of directors are so I don’t trust it.
It’s just baffling how this golden goose was half way strangled in the nest.
They are a non-profit board set up precisely to exercise caution over rapid AI development.
Or this is essentially a hostile takeover by Microsoft. OpenAI is a non-profit with non-shareholders as it’s board. They don’t have a profit motive to develop AI quickly and without safety measures. But the tech they’ve developed has quickly become the hottest product on the planet.
Microsoft was clearly prepared to take on all the employees the second this happened.
Muuuhahahaha… What a shitshow this organisation has become.
With great power comes great corruption.
I feel like this is Satya’s wet dream. He woke up on Friday like normal and went to bed on Sunday owning what, 85% of OpenAI’s top people? Acquisitions aren’t usually that easy.
It seems obvious Sam would want to grow his company to infinity. That’s what VC people do. The board expecting otherwise is strange in hindsight. Now they can oversee the slow, measured adoption of much smaller business while the rest of the team shoots for the stars.
Anyways, RIP y’all. Skynet launches next year.
Image Text:
To the Board of Directors at OpenAl,
OpenAl is the world’s leading Al company. We, the employees of OpenAl, have developed the best models and pushed the field to new frontiers. Our work on Al safety and governance shapes global norms. The products we built are used by millions of people around the world. Until now, the company we work for and cherish has never been in a stronger position.
The process through which you terminated Sam Altman and removed Greg Brockman from the board has jeopardized all of this work and undermined our mission and company. Your conduct has made it clear you did not have the competence to oversee OpenAl.
When we all unexpectedly learned of your decision, the leadership team of OpenAl acted swiftly to stabilize the company. They carefully listened to your concerns and tried to cooperate with you on all grounds. Despite many requests for specific facts for your allegations, you have never provided any written evidence. They also increasingly realized you were not capable of carrying out your duties, and were negotiating in bad faith.
The leadership team suggested that the most stabilizing path forward - the one that would best serve our mission, company, stakeholders, employees and the public - would be for you to resign and put in place a qualified board that could lead the company forward in stability. Leadership worked with you around the clock to find a mutually agreeable outcome. Yet within two days of your initial decision, you again replaced interim CEO Mira Murati against the best interests of the company. You also informed the leadership team that allowing the company to be destroyed “would be consistent with the mission.”
Your actions have made it obvious that you are incapable of overseeing OpenAl. We are unable to work for or with people that lack competence, judgement and care for our mission and employees. We, the undersigned, may choose to resign from OpenAl and join the newly announced Microsoft subsidiary run by Sam Altman and Greg Brockman. Microsoft has assured us that there are positions for all OpenAl employees at this new subsidiary should we choose to join. We will take this step imminently, unless all current board members resign, and the board appoints two new lead independent directors, such as Bret Taylor and Will Hurd, and reinstates Sam Altman and Greg Brockman.
- Mira Murati
- Brad Lightcap
- Jason Kwon
- Wojciech Zaremba
- Alec Radford
- Anna Makanju
- Bob McGrew
- Srinivas Narayanan
- Che Chang
- Lillian Weng
- Mark Chen
- Ilya Sutskever
Am ai missing smg: Ilya was one of the ppl ousting him, is now signing the leter?
Ain’t that simply a curtain drama for practical acquisition of OpenAI by Microsoft, circumventing potential legal issues?
This started months ago.
Seeing as Sam and Greg now work for microsoft I’d say this is late
Late only because of how swiftly Sam and Greg had agreed to work for Microsoft. This is sent on the first day back to work after the firing assuming OpenAI doesn’t work full staff over the weekend. Furthermore contacting 700 people and getting a response back takes a little time too.
Let’s be honest, Microsoft will probably be happy for Sam and Greg to return since OpenAI is almost a Microsoft company and it causes the least disruption. Alternatively could OpenAI go to 💩 and Microsoft lose their Edge (😉) over competitors in this space.
Microsoft would never aquire an innovative company just to ruin it.
I didn’t say that
Microsoft was also the biggest early investor in OpenAI, anyone that wants to leave that company has a guaranteed job at Microsoft, bet on it.
Might not be able to hire them due to non compete clauses though if they exist
wasn’t Ilya the one who gave Altman the news he was fired? I read it as he was siding with the board at first.
Edit:
Ilya posted this on Twitter:
“I deeply regret my participation in the board’s actions. I never intended to harm OpenAI. I love everything we’ve built together and I will do everything I can to reunite the company.”
Lol, what a fucking clown.
There will be 30 min read detailed articles or maybe even a book/series on what went behind the scenes. I felt like I knew so far, but every day 2 surprising things happen in this topic, and I’m back to square 0.
