The vast majority of Israelis say they are not troubled by reports of famine and suffering in Gaza, a new poll released by the Israel Democracy Institute shows.
The survey shows that 79 percent of Jews in Israel were not troubled, or troubled at all, whereas 86 percent of “Arab” respondents were somewhat or very troubled by the reports about the war on Gaza.
The survey was conducted between 27-31 July.
Yeah, the problem isn’t just with Netanyahu or his gov. You have an entire society thats mostly corrupt.
about half say they outright want to kill every palestinian. Half said no to that, but I imagine for some portion of those if a genocide happened without their explicitely supporting it, theyd be thrilled.
Most of y’all weren’t bothered by the reports of all the bombing, pillaging and starvation the US caused my country, but that’s in the past right? The ancient past known as 1984 but Americans will just say “that want me”
It wasn’t just your country!
The US is responsible for a shit ton of suffering. It is kind of our thing.
I live with that guilt every day. I hate imperialism to no end, and I hate that I fund it with my taxes.
Remember when the US beat the Nazis? This is exactly like that, but instead imagine we sent the Nazis billions of dollars and weapons to enable them.
And also became Nazis ourselves.
America world police 2025 rather would rather be worrying about what’s happening across the planet than fixing their own dumpster fire.
Fix your shit and get in the back of the line, you Americans only cheapen the cause
They csn fix it but using the billions they give to israel and usr it to help americans
That would have meant voting for the black woman, and Americans won’t do that
Propaganda still works to this day
Yep. The Nazis were people just like anyone else who gained the consent of the population. We learned nothing.
a lot of the nazi civilians didnt know about the genocide. They just saw a lot of people in camps.
That’s what they claimed, but if you listen to the testimonials from the allied soldiers, they could smell the crematoriums. Many were in denial. But that wasn’t my point.
Gaza genocide denials are new holocaust denials.
not even sure if it’s denial at this point, looks like the Israelis are well aware it’s happening and don’t care.
What horrible pieces of shit.
Sick, fascist country. They need to be occupied, reconstructed, and de-nazified.
For sure, but we need to start with the US.
Honestly, even just being allowed to sink or swim on their own would have prevented this. They’ve grown brutal and callous because the US has shielded them from any consequences of that.
The U.S. won’t be of much help to them when climate change comes tapping at their back door.
20 years of being attacked by Hamas did that. Before Israel became anyone’s ally, they won multiple wars against multiple Islamic nations at the same time. Every single one of those wars would have ended in a second Holocaust if the Muslims had won.
I kind of doubt that. It wouldn’t have been great, though, and I doubt they’d be above pushing everyone back into the diaspora.
It also was guys like Nasser being dumb, not Israel being blessed by god or whatever your pet theory is.
Edit: If what you’re saying is that Israel could defend itself, you’re right. It’d just have to respect the other nations around and in it, the way they actually did sometimes in the earlier days.
20 years of being attacked by Hamas did that.
Uh-huh. And Israel was being super nice and reasonable to Palestine this whole time, right?
“History begins the last time the other feuding party did something”
Every nation that invaded Israel did so with the express intent to wipe out the Jews. There’s no other reason for them to invade land that wasn’t theirs to begin with, EXCEPT to exterminate the Jews who had moved in.
Oh, just 20 years?? Try since ethnic cleansing since 1948
Agreed, the Muslims have been trying to Genocide the Jews since Israel was founded.
Israel was founded by means of genocide
It was not, but thanks for playing. The Israelis lacked the weapons and manpower to genocide anyone and were surrounded on all sides by Islamic theocracies that would love nothing more than to genocide the largest group of Jews the world had seen since the Romans expelled them from their land.
And look at the death numbers. Maybe just maybe uf Israel wasn’t killing Palestinians they wouldn’t grow up hating Israel. I know its hard but it’s in their book I think an eye for an eye.
I imagine a lot of the world hates israel now. Not just Palestinians. Israelis thrive on that, so they can have a nice strong victim complex for the next thousand years.
“Why oh why does everyone hate us!! Its because they are racist antisemites! bohooohoo”
Hatred of Jews goes back centuries. It’s almost a worldwide pastime at this point. The difference is a lot of the antisemites have had to stop being openly hateful towards Jews because of shifting social norms, so they latch onto Israel as a way to vent their hatred in a politically correct manner.
I didnt say jews, I said israelis. Careful with this. Antisemitism gets you banned on lemmy.
Although for whatever reason, anti arab sentiment or support for war crimes doesnt. Huge double standard.
If Israel was run by Muslims, no one would care if they were turning Gaza into a heap of rubble. Just look at how concerned they are about the Druze.
crickets
Exactly.
The death numbers tell a tale of a people who attacked a foe that they had absolutely no chance of beating.
Hamas thought that they could kill Jews, take hostages, then hide behind civilians and cry to the world to stop Israel from retaliating. Israel usually does, but this time, Israel has decided that playing nice with Hamas only gets people killed.
They celebrated as Hamas paraded around corpses and hostages. That celebratory cheer became wails of despair when Israel decided that enough was enough.
Much like a violent teen punk who loves to punch people he thinks won’t fight back on camera, then acts tough, their tune changed real fast when the guy Hamas sucker punched decided to punch back and kept punching.
If Palestinians weren’t constantly attacking Israel, there wouldn’t be an issue. Plenty of Palestinians lived and live in Israel peacefully. You can’t say the opposite.
The second holocaust is happening right now and it’s all thanks to the terrorists who founded israel, violently removing Palestinians from their homes, and setting the blueprint for the entire existence of the cancer known as israel. Palestine is only the beginning in the israelis’ campaign of lebensraum, they have a whole plan of “greater israel” that they’re looking forward to implementing.
imagine being in school and theres a boy thats mean to you, we can call him billy Palestine.
one day Billy Palestine pushes past you at recess and tou fall over and scrape your knee. Billy Palestine probably shouldnt have done that. It was mean.
But you dont push Billy back, no. The nect day at recess you chop his dick and balls off with a rusty mest cleaver and stuff them in his fucking mouth and assrape the shit out of him in fill view of the school before finally cutting off his head and leaving him right there on the playground.
Imagine defending this.
Imagine being in school and a little shitstain named Billy Hamas Palestine keeps throwing rocks at your family. Big rocks. Occasionally, those rocks hit you or a relative and your cousin has already suffered brain damage from it.
You tell the teacher and the teacher tells you to back off and leave Billy Hamas Palestine alone and blames you for his aggression.
After several years of this shitstain throwing rocks at you and your family, you throw a rock back. You land in the principal’s office with him asking why you hate Billy Hamas Palestine.
One day he pulls out a slingshot and kills several of your siblings, your dog, and then celebrates. You snap and grab your own slingshot and pelt him in a hail of rocks because you are FUCKING SICK OF HIM ALWAYS ATTACKING YOU AND YOUR FAMILY. Then the teachers and principal all come rushing out, telling you to stop because you’ll hurt him. They don’t CARE that he’s already killed your dog and siblings.
Eventually you have to say, “To hell with it. I’m taking you down so you won’t be ABLE to harm my family anymore. I’m sick of the teachers and principal enabling your behavior!”
This is where Israel is now. The only way Israel finds peace and avoids being genocided is to make sure those who have declared Israel to be their enemy isn’t capable to launching attacks. The majority of Palestinians supported Hamas and the October 7th attack. They’ve made their bed. Now they can sleep in it.
Israel has made many concessions for peace, even doing so far as giving up land they took in defensive war and every time they did, Hamas, Hebollah,etc declare it a victory and ramp up their attacks.
If Israel wants to take Gaza over entirely, good on em. At least then they can keep Hamas from coming back.
Don’t mistake government-controlled or government-aligned media propaganda with the actual civilian populace.
Would you trust Netanyahu’s allies to put out fair, representative journalism about what is important to the general population?
You’re sounding mighty Putinish there.
Russia said the same exact thing about Ukraine… maybe this is not a wise option in general.
And which genocide was Ukraine committing?
Russia accused them of a genocide in Donbass.
The point is that trying to rebuild countries is usually a very bad idea, especially by force. Germany and Japan after WWII are very rare examples in history.
Yet showed no evidence. We have thousands of hours of footage for evidence against israel. Stupid comparison.
Lemmy users are against violence and imperialism, except when it aligns with their ideology, and then they become the most bloodthirsty bunch. No morals, no principles, no values. You can’t stomp out extremism with violence. The US tried to do it with Iraq and failed, Russia tried to do with Chechnya and failed, India tried to do it with Pakistan and failed, hell, Israel itself is trying to do that with Hamas and failing. Could it be that you can’t get rid of extremism with tanks and missiles? Could it be that you can’t fight abstract concepts like ideologies physically? The answer is obviously, no, you can’t as history clearly shows.
Congratulations to israel for making the very rare examples list then.
What the brainless users here are suggesting is going to turn Israel into Afghanistan or Iraq, not into Japan or Germany. It’s been proven that country building just leads countries to become more extreme, and that shouldn’t be the goal.
Why would any of us care about any positive future for the israeli state? read the room, bud.
Israel is full of religious fanatics who would happily kill everyone on this planet. Have you heard of Operation Samson?
It’s the Samson option, they’ve never done it. And MAD has been policy for any number of nations.
Is Israel deep into an ethnic conflict spiral, and fairly devoid of empathy for the other side? Yes. Is it all religious fanatics? No, that’s a minority. Secular Zionism is a thing too.
Yes. Is it all religious fanatics? No, that’s a minority. Secular Zionism is a thing too.
Kind of? Zionism started as a secular movement, and although Israel still has a secular majority, we’ve seen a kind of inversion where the religious Zionists have become the most extreme and committed. Don’t get me wrong: Zionism is still dependent on the consent and support of the secular majority, and wouldn’t be able to achieve anything without it, but now it’s largely being pulled further right by the religious branch,
The Samson option is far worse than mutually assured destruction. Instead of retaliatory strikes against the sole country which launches nukes first, Isreal plans to nuke major cities all around the globe if they are ever nuked. They have already used this threat to coerce other countries into supporting them.
In the 1973 Yom Kippur War, Arab forces were overwhelming Israeli forces and Prime Minister Golda Meir authorized a nuclear alert and ordered 13 atomic bombs be readied for use by missiles and aircraft. The Israeli Ambassador informed President Nixon that “very serious conclusions” may occur if the United States did not airlift supplies. Nixon complied. This is seen by some commentators on the subject as the first threat of the use of the Samson Option.
This is also in there:
against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.
I’ve never heard anyone else suggest it would be aimless.
against a country whose military has invaded and/or destroyed much of Israel.
thats BS. Their patterns of action demonstrate pretty clearly that they dont follow any rules. They just state their intentions and if anyone of any country or military are killed going about their goals, they just shrug. Theyve killed plenty or people from across the world, and emptied out christian enclaves, and they couldnt care less about the human rights of anyone. Its not just palestinians they will kill, its anyone.
They are drunk with US support and they dont have to pretend to care anymore, so they arent. Just like maga republicans. They are angry they had to pretend to be civilized for so long up to now.
Sure, it would include countries which threaten them directly, but it is not limited to that. As per the quoted section, Israel’s government has already threatened to nuke the USA if we did not continue supplying them with military aid. There is a reason this policy is not just called MAD. It’s something entirely different.
I would interpret that paragraph as a threat to nuke Arab countries (13 times, maybe), which would be bad, and would also have major political and economic fallout for Nixon. Threatening the use of nukes against a non-nuclear country is questionable, but I think it’s also the US policy if invaded.
I had assumed it was just called that for the Jewishness. The story of Samson is pretty MAD-ish, except that I don’t think his captors were warned - killing a bunch of Philistines was the point, because it was the bad old days.
Come to think of it, did/do they even have a way of delivering nukes outside the region?
they have but to ask and we’ll ship them icbm parts.
Here’s another article which contains more quotes from the same book Wikipedia cites:
This doctrine is still in place today, as journalist Kit Klarenberg noted, “Dutch-born Israeli military theorist Martin van Creveld boasted in September 2003” that “We possess several hundred atomic warheads and rockets and can launch them at targets in all directions, perhaps even at Rome. Most European capitals are targets…We have the capability to take the world down with us. And I can assure you that that will happen before Israel goes under”.
https://the307.substack.com/p/the-samson-option-how-israel-not
Edit regarding your question: Yes, Isreal has multiple delivery options.
Officials confirm that the nation can now launch atomic weapons from land, sea and air.
Hmm, a bit of a suspect source. And I can’t find the primary source of this quote.
It does look like some of their boats and ships have global range, at least. If the Martin van Creveld quote is authentic, that would imply Rome is the edge of their missile range, which would make sense. I’m guessing Iran is just about as far.
And Palestine and Iran isn’t?
Don’t confuse a fascist regime for the population it is presiding over.
Dehumanisation succesful.
yeah a nation of mostly Zionists would think that, wouldn’t they?
A nation of mostly fascists. Zionism is about the creation of a religious nationalist ethnostate through genocide.
It’s pure unbridled fascism, and Israelis have been indoctrinated to believe it’s okay when they do it since birth, as has a significant proportion of the Jewish diaspora. That’s why the genocide continues, and why Israel is the most dangerous threat to Jewish people since Nazism.
Not quite. Zionism is about creating a secular nationalist ethnostate through genocide, with religious dressing simply as a way to get more religious Jews on board. It’s no coincidence that early Zionist leaders were all unapologetically atheist.
I think there’s been a pretty significant divergence from the original Zionist leaders to modern day Zionism. The seeds were there, obviously, but things have deteriorated even further in the past few decades.
What meaningful divergence is there? Since the 19th century, Zionists such as Herzl were discussing means to ethnically cleanse the local populace via economic domination.
In practice, Zionists starting coming in droves armed, aiding the British in committing atrocities and suppressing Palestinian dissent and resistance. Then during the Nakba, they would straight up rape, murder, and rob the Palestinians.
Is the divergence in Zionism similar to that of Nazism, where the initial good peacenik Nazis simply wanted to peacefully relocate Europe’s Jewish population to madagascar? Are we going to act like the very pursuit of an ethnostate is not problematic in and of itself?
That’s not true. Zionism originates from the Jewish scriptures. Basically, Judaism talks about how Jews were promised by God, via the scriptures and the old prophets, the land of Israel as a homeland. It is the duty of Jews to resettle the holy land and establish a theological society that is based on the divine laws and systems laid out in the Torah. By doing so, Jews would achieve salvation for themselves, and eventually for the rest of the world. This global salvation will be marked by global harmony and the coming of the messiah who will guide the world in the path of God.
Virtually all Jews agree that Israel is their homeland and that they will eventually reclaim the holy land and settle it in a way that would bring salvation as they await the coming of the Messiah. Traditionally Zionism was seen as something that is out of human control and is entirely up to God’s will. Essentially Jews will go back to Israel when God wills it and people have no say in the matter, any attempt by humans to accelerate the salvation is seen as blasphemous as it’s an act of rebellion against God’s will.
That’s when modern Zionism split. Modern Zionists believe that political and secular Zionism is a tool given by God to enact his divine plan and to initiate the return of Jews back the land of Israel. Therefore following this type of Zionism is actually following God’s will and it’s the duty of religious Jews to pursue it.
Obviously, there’s a great deal of debate among Jews about which theological branch is correct, but either way, the origins of Zionism aren’t purely secular or nationalist.
Modern Zionists believe that political and secular Zionism is a tool given by God to enact his divine plan and to initiate the return of Jews back the land of Israel.
Early modern Zionists (including Herzl himself) overwhelmingly didn’t believe in God in the first place.
Obviously, there’s a great deal of debate among Jews about which theological branch is correct, but either way, the origins of Zionism aren’t purely secular or nationalist.
You should look up Theodor Herzl. Early Zionists were straight up voting on whether they’d build their Jewish state in Palestine or Uganda, and the vote was pretty narrow if I’m not mistaken. The rationale for choosing Palestine was that it’d be easier to get religious Jews (which the guys who were thinking up this stuff were absolutely not) on board. Like, do you think Ben Gurion or Golda Mier were having theological debates?
Russia gave them a completely autonomous oblast to settle and build years before that vote, but they didnt like the area. Same lattitude as northern japan. No war needed. No people to displace. self rule written into the constitution of Russia. Yiddish offiical language. But they didnt like the area so they left it empty. They could go there now and have an israel 2 if they wanted. They dont want that area because its not their biblical favorite area. All this genocidal behavior was a choice they made. They already had a “homeland”.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
“If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s “Ben-Gurion”).
But this is separate from what I’m talking about. I’m specifically talking about the origins of the idea itself. It’s undeniably based in Jewish religious scriptures. That’s where the idea comes from even if modern Zionism evolved to be something different.
Okay this is going nowhere, so define Zionism. What do you think Zionism is?
I will never claim that all jews are bad because Israel is fucked up, nor will I ever claim that all catholics are bad because of the Spanish Inquisition or all muslims are bad because of the terrorists. It is true that not all people who follow those religions are bad.
However, one cannot deny the religious motivations. They are doing this because they believe that their sky daddy promised them that land, just like the catholics who did commit the inquisition believed their sky daddy wanted a pure catholic europe, and the racidal muslims believe their sky daddy wants to punish unvelievers/misbelievers.
Removed by mod
This is just ignorant. There’s only 14 million Jews in the world and 90% of them either live in the US or Israel. If there were 1.9 billion Jews like there were muslims, for example, we would start seeing a bunch of different states that act very differently from other. I think most people can agree that Iran under the Mullah regime and Afghanistan under the Taliban are evil, but at the same time, there are also islamic countries like Albania and Kazakhstan that are pretty normal. Trying to judge all Jews off the actions off of the actions of Israel, it’s like judging all muslims off of the actions of Pakistan or all Christians off of the actions of Brazil. It’s just silly.
I think most people can agree that Iran under the Mullah regime and Afghanistan under the Taliban are evil,
I dunno, I dont see Iran committing genocide and ethnic cleansing.
Fun fact: You can report bigots under rule 4.
It’s ignorant to call out dumbasses who believe in fairy tales? Okay then, haven’t seen this sort of Zionist propaganda before
No, there’s a difference between being critical of a religion and judging an entire religious demographic on the actions of a particular state.
ah the old hasbara run-to. anytime you get weak, run back to pretending Israel represents all of judaism, and any criticism of what israel is doing is “antisemitic” which just means racist-- which is the most common thing in the world. But your racism always gets a pass. I get pretty tired of that nonsense. Why is universal human rights such a problem for zionists? Why do Palestinians have no rights?
Nah, if you believe in mumbo jumbo you bet I’ll judge you as a less intelligent being. If you believe in some unprovable being that’s being used as a scapegoat for genocide you’re no better than the people committing said genocide
Source on genocide being included in Zionism theory?
oh I see, zionists were going to take the land peacefully, You are claiming that was the plan? Shall I show you quotes from zionists about how they thought about that?
Technically it’s not explicitly about genocide, but here’s the big guy on the topic:
As to al-Khalidi concerns about the non-Jewish majority population of Palestine, Herzl replied rhetorically: “who would think of sending them away?”
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl
Again, this isn’t technically a genocidal idea in and of its own (though still crime against humanity stuff), but implementing it would inevitably wade pretty deep into genocide territory, as seen in the Nakba.
This seems to be a weak source.
I have found a detailed article that claims that while the historical Zionism did mention relocating non-Jewish people, killing them was only a fringe opinion among ultra-nationalist religious people. But this opinion has been spreading with every major conflict until those extremists got power in the current government and was further accelerated by the October 7 attack. https://theconversation.com/in-israel-calls-for-genocide-have-migrated-from-the-margins-to-the-mainstream-250010As I said, Herzl wasn’t explicitly calling for total extermination here, but what he was calling for could only happen via genocide. This is why the Nakba included so many bloody massacres (which, yes, those constitute a genocide).
People seem to forget that when it came to Nazi rhetoric, the Nazis initially claimed they just wanted to “move the Jews”.
There’s a reason why the concentration extermination camps were called “The Final Solution” and not “First Attempt at creating an Aryan haven!”
For anyone curious, here’s a website where you get to guess whether a quote is from a Nazi or Zionist: https://zionism.wtf/#zionist-or-nazi
https://imeu.org/article/what-leading-israelis-have-said-about-the-nakba
Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
The property owners will come over to our side. According to my conception, the majority of the local population will have to be transferred elsewhere.
We shall try to spirit the penniless population across the border by procuring employment for it in the transit countries, while denying it any employment in our own country. - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly - Herzl’s Diary, 12 June 1895
Israel is a extremely racist nation and Palestinians are just “human animals” and even “vermin” to most Israelis.
When I went to Israel last time I was genuinely surprised how many zealots there are. Most Israelis you meet outside of the country are just normal people but Israel itself is still full of mentally deranged. Religion is a hell of a drug.
If you really mean Israelis outside of Israel and not just Jewish people, that’s probably just code shifting. They know their opinions aren’t acceptable outside their bubble, so they keep quiet. It’s the same way a white supremacist will talk differently if they think any random white guy shares their views vs when an imposing minority is in the room.
My long-time ex was Jewish, can confirm. They were alright but their zionist relatives absolutely dropped some fucking bombs (proverbial, probably literal now) during family gatherings. The mildest was the tired old “part of being a good Jew is supporting Israel” ranging up to “Palestinians are subhuman and should be exterminated”. Mind, this was over twenty years ago and the situation has demonstrably escalated since.
I think it’s a little different. The Israelis who actually live or travel outside of Israel tend to usually be the educated, open minded ones. They’re usually the ones who want a two state solution and oppose wars. The whackos tend to stay in Israel. Not all Israelis are whackos, but all the Israeli whackos stay in Israel. It’s kind of like how the Americans who travel or live abroad tend to be liberal, but the MAGA types never even leave the country.
So how come there are tons of Israeli groups abroad from Israel who push zionist propaganda?
They need to renounce their bullshit faith or be ready to take in the backlash. It’s all made up (all religions), anyway, and if one can’t see that they really don’t deserve to procreate on this earth
I mean some do and some don’t. It’s the same as any other nationality. Israelis aren’t a monolith.
87% of israelis want every non jewish person expelled from the state of Israel. Thats a monolith.
The reason for this is that Israel has a lot of ultra orthodox Jews, and they can be pinpointed as THE source of the insanity inside the country. They don’t contribute economically, they’re always calling for wars and violence but they refuse to participate in the military, they throw tantrums when anything doesn’t go their way, and they’re always trying to coerce society to be more religiously extreme.
Yeah it’s so disappointing to see a culture being held hostage by extremists. It’s almost like west Asia can never fucking escape these zealots ruining it for everybody.
As someone wirh west Asian roots I wonder how incredible the region would be without religion.
Never go back there
Yes, poll after poll has shown this. Israelis by and large are behind the genocide. They’re okay with it they approve of it and they like it. They’re not being forced to murder an entire people. They’re gleeful about it.
Dehumanization of the enemy is part of what enables genocidal actions.
