Well, Democrats are the less evil choice, but all this is peanuts compared to EU social standard, I see here in Spain often US tourists which thinks they are in the future, IN SPAIN, with the rights, services and the freedom people has. Even with the US Democrates, it’s compared like the EU fifty years ago.
Don’t confuse the statement with the capability to realize it. In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested, but the EU can’t invade Israel to capture him, less without the support from the US. But the change is on the way.
In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested
No. Please don’t make claims about things you don’t know about. It makes it sound like you’re lying deliberately.
But the change is on the way.
Maybe in your imaginary dream land that I assume you were referring to with your comment about the EU arresting Netanyahu, not in the real world though. Please try and remember we are talking about the real world.
Certainly not all EU members will arrest him, but the most will. The ICC statement is clear, the problem for some countries is the USA and beeing a NATO member (sadly) at the same time Israel is supported by the USA. This is because some countries are still hesitant, not for other reasons.
The real world is this, and because more and more countries want to turn the EU sovereign respect the US. Trumps BBB and Tariffs for the EU, probably will accelerate this process in August 1, in the manner of selfdefense.
The International Criminal Court’s arrest warrants for Benjamin Netanyahu remain valid and binding on all EU member states after judges rejected Israel’s appeal to withdraw them on July 16, 2025[1][2].
EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell emphasized that implementing the warrants “is not optional” for EU states[3]. However, European countries are divided on enforcement:
Countries confirming they would arrest Netanyahu:
Netherlands: “If he comes to Dutch soil, he will be arrested,” said Foreign Minister Caspar Veldkamp[4]
Ireland: Prime Minister Simon Harris stated Netanyahu would “absolutely” be arrested[5]
Spain: The Foreign Ministry confirmed Spain “will comply with its commitments”[5:1]
Belgium: Initially said it would arrest Netanyahu but later Premier Bart De Wever stated “practical considerations prevail over ethical considerations” and doubted any European country would make the arrest[6]
Countries refusing or hesitant:
Hungary: Prime Minister Viktor Orbán called the warrants “shameful” and invited Netanyahu with guarantees against arrest[7]
Germany: Government spokesperson said it’s “hard to imagine arrests could be made”[1:1]
France: Claims Netanyahu has “immunities” from prosecution[8]
Italy: Foreign Minister Tajani called Netanyahu’s arrest “unfeasible”[9]
The warrants accuse Netanyahu of war crimes and crimes against humanity, including using starvation as a method of warfare in Gaza between October 2023 and May 2024[10]. While all 27 EU states are legally obligated to enforce ICC warrants, political considerations have created a rift in their response[3:1].
No, even the US has more parties than only those two. In Spain we also had a two party system a lot of years ago, but this changed when the people begone to vote also for other parties than those two, with this we have now several different parties, that makes that there have to create aliances to obtain the mayority do be able to govern, so corresponding more on the reallity of the needs of the people, out of this black and white scheme (or better bright and dark grey).
In the US is needed that also enter left wing parties, which represent the basic rights of the people, which currently don’t exist, because they are “anti-american communists”, this is the mantra with which they create the fear in the people to vote it.
Voters: “Please stop bombing children”, “Please stop backing a genocide”, “Please stop handing out our taxes to your rich friends”, “Please stop making healthcare the number one reason for bankruptcy”, “Please stop sending people to torture prisons”, “Please make minimum wage a livable wage”
“…less than ideal party…”
I think you might have a warped view of what “less than ideal” means
Democrats regularly raise taxes on the rich and Republicans regularly raise them. Democrats regularly push for prison reform and things like cashless bail. Republicans regularly push for harsher sentencing and reductions in per-prisoner spending. Compare a map of state minimum wages to their political alignment.
If you want Democrats to act on these things more, we have to get obstructionist Republicans out of office.
I wouldnt say a party of genocide supporters who love to kick progressives in the face and dont seem to give 2 shites what their voters want and need, and who have a wildly eroding base and 28% approval doesnt qualify as a:
good choice
But I guess if thats what you think I’m not going to change your mind.
There’s only two choices under the current system and the other one is kidnapping people to put in concentration camps right now. The only chance to change the current system without open armed conflict is the Democrats.
I think its time to start looking past democrats as possible agents of change. Justice delayed is justice denied, and the AIPAC centrists are firmly in control and not about to change anything. Rallying behind them just guarantees more loss, at the cost of enabling their corruption. Their base has already left to the point that they cant win anything. They have a 28% approval rating.
Democrats still have 23 governorships, control 37% of state legislatures, and 40% of state chambers. Six of the ten most populous states have 2 Democrat senators, three have Republican senators, and one is split. The house is split 219 Republican to 212 Democrat, but the Democrats represent a much larger portion of the population.
The point is, Democrats are far from being out of the game. Nobody else comes close to having a chance of beating Republicans in an election.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Stop racism in policing
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
Expanded healthcare subsidies
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve democracy
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
Not even getting into the whole voter participaton thing here. I’m just curious does that mean you consider Trump the status quo? Because he won the popular vote in the most recent election. Because if so i agree. Trump is business as usual for the US. Just going mask off. Just surprised to see a liberal admit as much.
Its not a lie. The legal progress towards this has come from Democrats. Yeah, it’s not enough and it’s been too long coming. Still, look at which states passed laws on chokeholds and which states passed laws allowing people to run over protesters, then tell me there is no difference in the parties.
You’re too easily impressed with the most superficial bullshit possible. The difference you highlighted is purely symbolic on both sides. As if cops are restrained by the law in the first place. Both parties have the exact same policy on policing and your ‘good guys’ are almost exclusively the ones in charge of the cities that actually run those police departments. All they do is give them more funding. And to confound people like you they engage in ‘liberal box checking’ where they ‘do something’ that changes absolutely nothing structurally. And then you turn around and defend these murderers like they’re the good guys. You’re a boob.
Not allowing choke holds isn’t superficial. Body cams aren’t superficial. They cut down on police use of force and citizen complaints. They also cost money. Better trained police costs money. Sending out social workers with police on domestic calls costs money ,and makes a huge difference in the quality of policing.
The only substantial reduction in policing cost is cutting back on the drug war and most left leaning states are doing that. (Reducing numbers of police would do it but most states have similar per capita number of police as Europe).
There is no doubt we have a long way to go on police reform, but to say there has been no progress simply isn’t true.
I’m sorry but you’re extremely too credulous and unthinking.
I already explained why and how bans on chokeholds are superficial. Are your senses so dull that you didn’t notice or are you being deliberately dishonest and lazy by not addressing it?
Body cams are even more glaring an example. It’s extremely fucking common knowledge that they turn them off whenever they want. Do you think you’re being strategic by ignoring that fact? Because the effect in reality is it makes you sound like an idiot. Your entire premise is undermined.
You just straight up have no idea what’s happening in the world around you.
Yes, some cops are going to use chokeholds regardless of bans. Some people are going to commit murder regardless of it being illegal too. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother having laws against murder. The fact that chokes are not reduced to zero by chokehold bans does not negate that it reduces the number of chokes used. In the same way, the fact that cops will sometimes shut off their cams does not negate the times that they don’t turn off the cams and it allows victims to seek justice.
I am aware of Killilogy and Warrior Cop training. Cops receiving the wrong training is an entirely separate issue from the cost of improved training.
Finally, please refrain from personal attacks as this detracts from your arguments and violates community guidelines.
You’ve certainly whitewashed Dems quite a lot. You’re fundamentally not wrong though. As bad as the Dems are, and they are very bad, MAGA is undeniably worse. If we had some other electoral system, we could safely explore other options. But we don’t. We have FPTP, which makes it a binary choice between bad and worse.
And worse is just so, so much worse. That doesn’t make bad good, but it’s still a binary choice. You’d have to be evil or stupid to try to muddy the waters so that bad seems close enough to worse that people don’t feel the urgency of choosing bad to prevent worse.
Dems can be convinced to try other election systems besides FPTP because they fundamentally believe in democracy. From my perspective, fixing things without violence is still an option with Dems. It isn’t with Republicans.
I’m hoping Musk gets some momentum with his third party. Either it splits the Republican vote and slows down this freefall into fascism, or he dumps tons of resources into promoting some variety of RCV. Either way, that’s a net benefit in my eyes.
Democrats
Retain marriage rights for gay couples.
Expand legality of recreational drugs.
Free food for schoolchildren.
Tax credits for families with children.
Subsidized for free childcare.
Expand electric car charging nationally.
Subsidize sustainable fuel sources.
Fact based education standards.
Stop racism in policing.
Expanded healthcare subsidies.
Preserve democracy.
Republicans
Being gay or trans should be illegal.
White supremacy is great!
Christianity as national religion.
Privatize the post office and weather service.
*Eliminate the EPA, Department of Education.
Defund IRS.
Disenfranchise nonwhites and women.
Antivax agenda.
Expand fossil fuel use.
Eliminate worker safety laws.
Eliminate collective bargaining and union rights.
Defunding science research.
Deregulate crypto.
No regulations on AI.
No recognition of child’s educational or bodily autonomy rights.
Eliminate hate crime laws except for straight white men.
End democracy, install fascist dictatorship.
But yeah, they are totally the same, right guys? RIGHT!?!
Well, Democrats are the less evil choice, but all this is peanuts compared to EU social standard, I see here in Spain often US tourists which thinks they are in the future, IN SPAIN, with the rights, services and the freedom people has. Even with the US Democrates, it’s compared like the EU fifty years ago.
The EU and the Democrats are both supporting the modern holocaust, neither of them are in a position to talk about “social standards.”
Don’t confuse the statement with the capability to realize it. In the same moment when Netanyahu travel to the EU, in the same moment he will get arrested, but the EU can’t invade Israel to capture him, less without the support from the US. But the change is on the way.
No. Please don’t make claims about things you don’t know about. It makes it sound like you’re lying deliberately.
Maybe in your imaginary dream land that I assume you were referring to with your comment about the EU arresting Netanyahu, not in the real world though. Please try and remember we are talking about the real world.
Certainly not all EU members will arrest him, but the most will. The ICC statement is clear, the problem for some countries is the USA and beeing a NATO member (sadly) at the same time Israel is supported by the USA. This is because some countries are still hesitant, not for other reasons. The real world is this, and because more and more countries want to turn the EU sovereign respect the US. Trumps BBB and Tariffs for the EU, probably will accelerate this process in August 1, in the manner of selfdefense.
Politico - Netanyahu arrest warrant: Where can he still go in Europe? ↩︎ ↩︎
Straits Times - ICC judges reject Israel’s request to withdraw Netanyahu arrest warrant ↩︎
EurActiv - ICC arrest warrant for Netanyahu ‘binding’ on member states ↩︎ ↩︎
Channel 4 - Netanyahu arrest warrant: Europe split over ICC ruling ↩︎
Newsweek - Netanyahu Arrest Warrant: Full List of Countries That Will Comply with ICC ↩︎ ↩︎
The Hindu - Is Netanyahu Above the Law? ↩︎
Sweden Herald - Netanyahu Heads to EU Despite ICC Arrest Warrant ↩︎
Washington Examiner - EU says arresting Netanyahu ‘not optional’ as members waiver on warrant ↩︎
i24 News - ICC Upholds Arrest Warrants Against Benjamin Netanyahu & Yoav Gallant ↩︎
Al Jazeera - ICC prosecutor warned to drop Netanyahu case or be ‘destroyed’ ↩︎
Those memes are just contributing to the issue of young people skipping the elections, and then complaining about our leaders being stupid
Well, then maybe the Democrats should fix that, by putting out candidates that young people actually want to vote for.
There are too little young voters to make it a viable strategy for either side
Based on that logic, it sounds like there are too few young voters to worry about memes stopping them from voting.
No, even the US has more parties than only those two. In Spain we also had a two party system a lot of years ago, but this changed when the people begone to vote also for other parties than those two, with this we have now several different parties, that makes that there have to create aliances to obtain the mayority do be able to govern, so corresponding more on the reallity of the needs of the people, out of this black and white scheme (or better bright and dark grey). In the US is needed that also enter left wing parties, which represent the basic rights of the people, which currently don’t exist, because they are “anti-american communists”, this is the mantra with which they create the fear in the people to vote it.
Exactly! The fascists want people to think there’s no good choice. Apathy helps them take control.
I’m sure repeatedly telling people they need to shut up and never criticize The Party will really reduce apathy.
Criticize all you want. Just recognize there is a difference between a less than ideal party and literal Nazis
Genocide apologist
I hate it but it’s happening no matter who is in power. Best we can do is a party who isn’t going to throw immigrants in concentration camps.
If you think that committing a modern holocaust is “less than ideal” you belong in a concentration camp.
Voters: “Please stop bombing children”, “Please stop backing a genocide”, “Please stop handing out our taxes to your rich friends”, “Please stop making healthcare the number one reason for bankruptcy”, “Please stop sending people to torture prisons”, “Please make minimum wage a livable wage”
I think you might have a warped view of what “less than ideal” means
I hate it but, until March or April (depending on the poll) a majority of the country still supported Israel.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/04/08/how-americans-view-israel-and-the-israel-hamas-war-at-the-start-of-trumps-second-term/
Democrats regularly raise taxes on the rich and Republicans regularly raise them. Democrats regularly push for prison reform and things like cashless bail. Republicans regularly push for harsher sentencing and reductions in per-prisoner spending. Compare a map of state minimum wages to their political alignment.
If you want Democrats to act on these things more, we have to get obstructionist Republicans out of office.
both can be true at the same time.
Could be, but isn’t.
I wouldnt say a party of genocide supporters who love to kick progressives in the face and dont seem to give 2 shites what their voters want and need, and who have a wildly eroding base and 28% approval doesnt qualify as a:
But I guess if thats what you think I’m not going to change your mind.
There’s only two choices under the current system and the other one is kidnapping people to put in concentration camps right now. The only chance to change the current system without open armed conflict is the Democrats.
I think its time to start looking past democrats as possible agents of change. Justice delayed is justice denied, and the AIPAC centrists are firmly in control and not about to change anything. Rallying behind them just guarantees more loss, at the cost of enabling their corruption. Their base has already left to the point that they cant win anything. They have a 28% approval rating.
Democrats still have 23 governorships, control 37% of state legislatures, and 40% of state chambers. Six of the ten most populous states have 2 Democrat senators, three have Republican senators, and one is split. The house is split 219 Republican to 212 Democrat, but the Democrats represent a much larger portion of the population.
The point is, Democrats are far from being out of the game. Nobody else comes close to having a chance of beating Republicans in an election.
Teaching a bunch of lies about American exceptionalism and how imperialism is actually good isn’t what I’d call “fact based”
Right like how democrats in nearly all major cities increased police funding and almost none passed any meaningful reform.
But don’t remotely consider universal healthcare
Preserve the status quo which I wouldn’t call a democracy. A democracy enacts the will of the people, democrats don’t even have a democratic primary for their own party.
That’s a right thing, not a left thing.
A lot of left leaning places pushed consent decrees, for example:
https://www.chicagopolice.org/community-policing-group/consent-decree/
The list time Democrats had a filibuster-proof trifecta it was for about 2 months and they passed Obamacare. Since then Republicans have nullified about 40% of it.
Except by definition it is a democracy. Like it or not, most people vote for the status quo.
Barely.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Economist_Democracy_Index#List_by_country
Not even getting into the whole voter participaton thing here. I’m just curious does that mean you consider Trump the status quo? Because he won the popular vote in the most recent election. Because if so i agree. Trump is business as usual for the US. Just going mask off. Just surprised to see a liberal admit as much.
Reminder that lemmy.world users cannot see lemmygrad users. ChonkyOwlbear is never going to respond, they cannot see your comment.
lmaooo i wish i couldnt see them too that’s not fair
I will pretend to be outraged on their behalf. “You filthy tankie!”
omg :( Me not filthy me take shower like every day. So mean.
I think you dropped this:
Democrats & Republicans
Wait, where does this not apply to Republicans?
Who said it doesn’t?
The list did. You’re appending to a list.
That’s fair. I updated it to say both. I phrased it that way in response to ChonkyOwlBear’s implication that the Democrats were the good guys
You kinda implied it by titling it “Democrats:”
Whataboutism
flawed argument, this is the real world and you do have to compare options.
Making an imaginary secret third option to win the fight is reserved for kids in the playground
Spoken like a true neoliberal. Pragmatic genocide.
blah blah blah very cultured very much words
do you want a standing ovation for eating a dictionary for breakfast or do you intend to face reality
How bad is your fucking vocabulary if words like “pragmatic” are too fancy for you.
Jesus, I knew fascists were anti-intectual, but getting angry at words the average middle schooler would know is a new level.
Either you’re stupid or you’re lying.
Where’s the lie?
Literally fucking half of the shit you attribute to democrats.
Start here. This is a fucking lie and you’re practically a nazi for whitewashing them
Its not a lie. The legal progress towards this has come from Democrats. Yeah, it’s not enough and it’s been too long coming. Still, look at which states passed laws on chokeholds and which states passed laws allowing people to run over protesters, then tell me there is no difference in the parties.
You’re too easily impressed with the most superficial bullshit possible. The difference you highlighted is purely symbolic on both sides. As if cops are restrained by the law in the first place. Both parties have the exact same policy on policing and your ‘good guys’ are almost exclusively the ones in charge of the cities that actually run those police departments. All they do is give them more funding. And to confound people like you they engage in ‘liberal box checking’ where they ‘do something’ that changes absolutely nothing structurally. And then you turn around and defend these murderers like they’re the good guys. You’re a boob.
Not allowing choke holds isn’t superficial. Body cams aren’t superficial. They cut down on police use of force and citizen complaints. They also cost money. Better trained police costs money. Sending out social workers with police on domestic calls costs money ,and makes a huge difference in the quality of policing.
The only substantial reduction in policing cost is cutting back on the drug war and most left leaning states are doing that. (Reducing numbers of police would do it but most states have similar per capita number of police as Europe).
There is no doubt we have a long way to go on police reform, but to say there has been no progress simply isn’t true.
I’m sorry but you’re extremely too credulous and unthinking.
I already explained why and how bans on chokeholds are superficial. Are your senses so dull that you didn’t notice or are you being deliberately dishonest and lazy by not addressing it?
Body cams are even more glaring an example. It’s extremely fucking common knowledge that they turn them off whenever they want. Do you think you’re being strategic by ignoring that fact? Because the effect in reality is it makes you sound like an idiot. Your entire premise is undermined.
You just straight up have no idea what’s happening in the world around you.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/08/warrior-cop-class-dave-grossman-killology.html
“More training costs money”
“The perfect is the enemy of the good.”
Yes, some cops are going to use chokeholds regardless of bans. Some people are going to commit murder regardless of it being illegal too. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t bother having laws against murder. The fact that chokes are not reduced to zero by chokehold bans does not negate that it reduces the number of chokes used. In the same way, the fact that cops will sometimes shut off their cams does not negate the times that they don’t turn off the cams and it allows victims to seek justice.
I am aware of Killilogy and Warrior Cop training. Cops receiving the wrong training is an entirely separate issue from the cost of improved training.
Finally, please refrain from personal attacks as this detracts from your arguments and violates community guidelines.
You’ve certainly whitewashed Dems quite a lot. You’re fundamentally not wrong though. As bad as the Dems are, and they are very bad, MAGA is undeniably worse. If we had some other electoral system, we could safely explore other options. But we don’t. We have FPTP, which makes it a binary choice between bad and worse.
And worse is just so, so much worse. That doesn’t make bad good, but it’s still a binary choice. You’d have to be evil or stupid to try to muddy the waters so that bad seems close enough to worse that people don’t feel the urgency of choosing bad to prevent worse.
Dems can be convinced to try other election systems besides FPTP because they fundamentally believe in democracy. From my perspective, fixing things without violence is still an option with Dems. It isn’t with Republicans.
Westerners will go on and on about how North Koreans are brainwashed to worship their leaders, then say shit like this.
Apparently doing the modern holocaust doesn’t’ count as “violence” to white supremacist BlueMAGA fascists.
I’m hoping Musk gets some momentum with his third party. Either it splits the Republican vote and slows down this freefall into fascism, or he dumps tons of resources into promoting some variety of RCV. Either way, that’s a net benefit in my eyes.
The lesser evil choice is whichever hastens the collapse of your monstrous, genocidal empire
Removed by mod
You’re ok with genocide