• Wispy2891@lemmy.world
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    2 hours ago

    Well if they didn’t genocide all those millions of innocent Jews 80 years ago, western countries wouldn’t accept the invasion and genocide in Palestine over the last decades

  • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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    2 hours ago

    You totally are you genocidal assholes.

    You’ve been making bank out of selling weapons to gaza for the last 2 years. Scumbags

    • RidderSport@feddit.org
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      1 hour ago

      There has been no money made. The supplied arms have always at least been partially (50+%) payed for by the German government

      • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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        36 minutes ago

        OMG are you stupid? The money is going to the private sector. It’s a hidden subsidy.

        Remember when von der legend got caught being in bed with the weapon industry?

      • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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        46 minutes ago

        If it’s ‘paid’ someone made money.
        German arms peddlers to be exact.
        Whoever pays the bill: government (the suckers voting for them and the ones that didn’t too) doesn’t matter.

    • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
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      2 hours ago

      If the Gaza war grows to a world war youre right, but until then I am glad to only be ashamed of our Government murdering one group of people instead of half the fucking world.

  • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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    6 hours ago

    Do people actually think the middle east conflict will start ww3?

    • Saleh@feddit.org
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      4 hours ago

      Israel is currently attacking Iranian Oil and Gas.

      Iran could retaliate by closing the Persian Gulf, where 20% of global Oil and Gas shipping goes through and to weaken US, UK and other support for Israel. This could bring these countries onto the plan, but also Israels allies UAE and Saudi Arabia. When more countries join against Iran, China could feel threatened, or see an opportunity in the distraction, Russia will certainly ramp up its efforts in Ukraine. The economic fallout of the explosion in oil and gas prices globally could tip over other conflicts into wars.

      This can definitely spiral into another world war. Remember that WW1 was caused by serbian seperatists assasinating the austrio-hungarian crown prince.

      • Denjin@lemmings.world
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        7 minutes ago

        WW2 started as a series of separate, regional conflicts that gradually pushed the world to a major war. Japan in China, Italy in Africa, Germany in Central and Eastern Europe.

        The world didn’t just wake up on Sept 1st 1939 and say: I guess we at war now. These things always start this way and spiral out of control.

        Even the world’s first global conflict, the War of Spanish Succession started with French and Austria fighting over the crown of Spain but various other European powers were dragged in as various regional conflicts coalesced into a major war.

      • Fizz@lemmy.nz
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        40 minutes ago

        Iran can draw more aggro if they want but theyre getting pretty fucked as is and probably dont want anymore countries pilling on.

        China doesnt care about iran and theyre winning by not being involved while the other super powers get bogged down in war and internal conflict.

        Russia doesnt have anything left to increase vs Ukraine unless it goes nuclear.

        WW1 was started because both Austria-hungry and Germany (partly) wanted a war. The assassination was the excuse and not the reason.

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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          39 minutes ago

          What are you saying? Definitely not ‘caused by’.
          It was caused by many factors and events.
          This was a result and not a cause.
          You are also completely wrong that ‘Nobody was fighting before that’.
          There was already fighting in eastern Europe.

        • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
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          2 hours ago

          That’s not the whole story.

          Let’s quickly remind ourselves of what was the situation before the war:

          Britain had the strongest naval forces and had a rule saying, that their naval forces should be as strong as the two (other) strongest naval forces together. Germany meanwhile was massively expanding its naval forces to be able to compete with the UK. This caused politic tension and an arms race between Germany and the UK.

          France has be politically isolated since the 1870s, but due to the German monarch not caring about the contracts that isolated France, that lost a war to Germany, ran out. At the same time the contracts that caused a situation where if anyone in Europe would have started a war would immediately pull 2-3 other countries into it ran out.

          Russia was experiencing inner political tension due to the citizens not being satisfied with the Zar ruling. To counter this it tried shifting the focus away from the inner political problems by gaining influence in the middle east

          Autria-Hungary tried to gain more influence in the middle east.

          After the assassination Austria Hungary gave Serbia an Ultimatum to allow their forces and government officials to operate in Serbian territory to catch the murderer, who’s suspected to be supported by Russia IIRC, and threatening a war if they didnt comply with the Ultimatum. Germany gave Austria-Hungary safety guarantees stating that if they were to go to war with Serbia, they would support them. Ultimately it came to a war with Serbia. Causing Russia to join, since they also wanted more influence in Serbia.

          Germany then decided to Attack France in an preemptive Attack, since France hated Germany due to the lost war and the political Isolation caused by Bismarck. Since the German border with France was heavily guarded they decided to attack Belgium first and the go to France to avoid having to fight against a lot of bunkers. The attack against Belgium caused the UK to join the war in order, who were willing to go to war due to the German threat to their naval dominance.

          It isn’t really that easy to say who caused the war, since it was a very complex political climate where everyone was willing to go to war to defend their own interests.

        • RunawayFixer@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          This is a very novel take of historical revisionism, first time I’ve encountered it.

          Do you have any sources other than yourself that support your claim that ww1 was started by Germany attacking Belgium?

            • RunawayFixer@lemmy.world
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              19 minutes ago

              That’s an article about a military campaign in a war that was already on going. The article even has a section called “outbreak of the war”, in which the actual outbreak of the war is explained (which was not Germany invading Belgium). The article does not in any way support your claim that Germany started world war 1 by invading Belgium.

              Why are you linking articles and then misrepresenting what is in those articles?

              • RunawayFixer@lemmy.world
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                17 minutes ago

                The wiki article is actually very good. The historical revisionist is just claiming that it says things which it definitely does not.

              • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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                25 minutes ago

                Aaah so the “historical context” can only be user to defend Germany. Russia’s invasion doesn’t have an historical conect they’re inherently evil am I right?

                • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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                  19 minutes ago

                  You are OC not right, especially since you’re putting words into my mouth I didn’t say.
                  Clearly mentioning facts that show you are wrong on WW1 Germany is not ‘defending them’.

                  "Russia’s invasion doesn’t have an historical conect they’re inherently evil "
                  Again didn’t say anything like that, only that it has nothing to do with WW1

    • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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      5 hours ago

      Could easily be the start of it. If the US civil wars with the orangutan and his ilk, and China starts to fuck with Russia because Xi recognises Putin as a paper tiger dumbass (though China’s army is also paper tigery, so…) or just escalates their fighting with India…

      Then… That’d be most of the world involved in war.

  • kerrigan778@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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    9 hours ago

    Germany is the second largest provider of weapons to Israel, and a huge longtime consumer of Russian gas, this is a tonedeaf as hell meme.

      • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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        2 hours ago

        Aw is the kraut pissed when reminded he’s guilty in a genocide?

        Why do you guys still send weapon to a fascist regime? Enjoying that DE40 going up innit?

        • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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          28 minutes ago

          That DE40 has not been going up since the terrorist act by the US of blowing up NS2 and the ‘sanctions’ on themselves making them buy wildly expensive fracking gas from the US.
          EU can’t compete and their economy is dying.
          BASF, Thyssen-Krupp,etc… all closing down shop and reorganising.
          A nice fertile ground for creating more AfD fascists, exactly the same as in the 1930’s.
          And again the prospect of getting trashed on the eastern front just like their opa’s.

        • cows_are_underrated@feddit.org
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          2 hours ago

          Please dont mistake the German government for the entirety of Germany. I would say, that the support for Israel has massively decreased, due to their genocide. Our government however, does not fucking care.

    • gibson@sopuli.xyz
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      9 hours ago

      They also ditched nuclear energy and stayed over reliant on russian fossil fuel, funding the Russian war machine

      • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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        23 minutes ago

        Now we’re funding the US regime war machine after they blew up NS2 and ‘sanctions’.
        Paying extortion prices for dirty US fracking gas that make companies uncompetitive and causing the economy to collapse.
        The US leeches always profit from war, same as in WW2.

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        3 hours ago

        The nuclear rods in Europe are mainly made with Uranium from Kazakhstan processed in Russia.

        The German failure was not expanding renewables. Getting out of nuclear energy is geopolitically and financially sound.

        • Corn@lemmy.ml
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          2 hours ago

          Not when coal and gas fill the void. They can get fuel rods from France, Canada, China. Hell Germany could just refine their own, Niger is looking for trading partners.

      • albert180@piefed.social
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        7 hours ago

        These nuclear energy zealots are spilling over from r/europe with the same stupid arguments

        • Corn@lemmy.ml
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          2 hours ago

          Nuclear energy was the answer between like 1950 and 2010. But the fact that China isnt going all in on nuclear despite having optimal conditions; central planning allows them to predict maximum prices for materials and labor available 5-10 years in advance, the scale allows them to produce reactors more efficiently with better investment in tooling than any other country, and being the workshop of the world ensures higher demand than any other country. They are at <5% nuclear right now and expect <10% by 2035.

    • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
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      9 hours ago

      Always on the wrong side of history.
      Not a coincidence that fascism and zionism are twins

    • 007Ace@lemm.ee
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      6 hours ago

      Donald Drumpf would be his name if I remember John Oliver correctly.

  • Lord Wiggle@lemmy.world
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    13 hours ago

    Germany is Europe’s biggest supporter of Israel.

    The biggest issue is that we, the EU, are on the side of Germany now. And their track record with world wars isn’t great.

    • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      To be fair to the Germans, I can understand how the Holocaust is integrated into them as a kind of “original sin”. What was done to the Jews under the Nazis was so unspeakable terrible, and German society as a whole has done an enormous job at ingraining in themselves that nothing of the sort should ever repeat itself.

      The problem is that “nothing of the sort” has translated into “opposing Jews in any way”. It seems to me like Germany sees itself as bound to support Jews (and thereby the Jewish state Israel) no matter what in order to “atone for their sins”, and I can understand that. However, right now, Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we’ve seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust. It’s very hard for Germany to oppose Israel without tickling a part of their history that they’ve done a laudable job at condemning.

      What Germany needs now, is to separate their history from their current politics. I understand that it’s difficult, and I don’t have an answer to how it should be done, but it needs to happen, lest the same crimes are committed again.

      • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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        2 hours ago

        Everything they remember from the horror of Nazism is how the jews got targeted. That’s it. They are against the specifics of Hitler racial hierarchy. Replace jews by Arabs and they’re all on board. Meanwhile gipsies still live on the street in berlin

      • Saleh@feddit.org
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        3 hours ago

        Germany doesnt care about Jews. The moment Jews are not fitting the box Germany designed for them by not blindly supporting Israel, those Jews are facing the same repressions like anyone else who challenges Germanies blind support for Israel.

        German politics, media and parts of civil society think that blind support of Israel is serving certain interests of Germany and they do it purely for these reasons. In particular we see it being used to justify racist discrimination against Arabs and other “brown” people and to crack down with increasing authoritarianism on leftist and ecological political positions.

        Like Israeli society they have deluded themselves into thinking that they know better than everyone else in the world what is right and wrong and fail to see, how this actually harms Germany tremendously.

      • p3n@lemmy.world
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        8 hours ago

        Israel is suddenly the state committing the closest thing we’ve seen to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.

        I don’t say this to excuse anything Israel is doing, but this is gross recency bias that is glossing over numerous genocides that have occurred since the Holocaust, including:

        Not technically genocides, but also worth mentioning in the same vein:

        So ya, other than those events, this is the closest thing to the Holocaust since the actual Holocaust.

        • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          It’s laudable of you to bring attention to these other atrocities. Without creating a “race to the bottom” regarding what was worse, I still want to point out that the horror of the Holocaust was not only in the number of killed.

          I’m aware of a couple of the atrocities you mentioned, but as far as I’m aware, they don’t carry the clinical state-sponsored efficiency that is a hallmark of the Holocaust. When I compare Gaza today to the holocaust, that’s what I’m comparing, rather than the number of killed. It’s about the way Isreal has decided to wipe out the population of Gaza, and systematically does so completely unhindered.

      • Iceman@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        The problem is that Germans now just look generally pro-genocidal.

        • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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          10 hours ago

          This is a classic problem of going into one ditch, then oversteering and hitting the opposite ditch.

          Germany has worked so hard on “The Holocaust was terrible, we will forever support the Jews to make up for it” that they’re now supporting a genocidal Jewish state.

          My point is that I understand why this is hard for them. For them to oppose Israel invokes some associations that they really want to keep far away. However, now, supporting Israel invokes the same associations. This puts them in a kind of catch-22 situation, where no matter what they do, they’re invoking associations to the Nazis.

          To be clear: I think the only right thing to do now is to oppose Israel. I just understand why that is exceptionally hard for Germany.

          • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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            2 hours ago

            Ah yes it must be very hard for them not to send weapons to a genocider.

            Imagine them saying no to that sweet weapon deal money.

            • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              You’re wilfully ignoring the historical context that makes it hard for Germany to oppose Israel. By doing so, you’re not helping anyone.

              • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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                2 hours ago

                The only historical context who matter is how much money they make selling weapons to Israel.

                If they grisly cared about the Holocaust the gipsies wouldn’t still be living off the street of berlin

                • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world
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                  1 hour ago

                  Don’t you see that if you want to effect change, it helps to understand why Germany is doing what they’re doing now?

                  I have no idea what brings the ICC into this, I’m not aware of cases against any other country than Isreal here.

                  By the way, how does trying to understand why people are doing what they do make me an asshole? I’m trying to be civil here, and I think you’re being very impolite.

          • Iceman@lemmy.world
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            9 hours ago

            Well put! It’s a shame that they put all focus on supporting their primary victim and so little on never again allowing their actions. Their word would weigh heavy thou if they ever stepped on that land mine.

      • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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        2 hours ago

        Mate I like you but I’m from luttich. Pretty sure nobody was fighting before the Germans attacked Eben emael with gliders.

        In a sense they were just doing what we were doing in africa. Still pretty shitty.

        • OBJECTION!@lemmy.ml
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          1 hour ago

          Pretty sure nobody was fighting before the Germans attacked Eben emael with gliders.

          That’s the wrong war. Fort Eben Emael wasn’t even constructed yet, and there were no paratroopers on any side.

          Franz Ferdinand was assassinated on June 28th, 1914. On July 28th, Austria-Hungary began shelling Belgrade, in the first shots of the war. Germany occupied Luxembourg August 2nd and invaded Belgium August 4th.

          But regardless, the European powers were always going to end up fighting each other after running out of places to colonize, building up enormous militaries, and forming a bunch of secret alliances. No nation was the “good guys” in WWI, they were a bunch of imperialist colonial states jockeying for power, and sending ordinary people into awful conditions to die for no good reason.

          • ofchesoneofthose@lemmings.world
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            31 minutes ago

            True. I should know my Belgian fort better.

            I know what you’re saying and I sort of agree but come on, we were neutral and they attacked us because some idiot got popped in Sarajevo and they were too pussies to attack France upfront.

      • Taleya@aussie.zone
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        7 hours ago

        I mean if you wanted to peg a nation state, Austria-Hungary were the ones who declared and set off all the other connected traps

  • plyth@feddit.org
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    11 hours ago

    It’s still possible to ask if Germany could have prevented it.