WHAT
- Former U.S. President Donald J. Trump was shot at a rally in PA.
TRUMPS STATEMENT
“I want to thank The United States Secret Service, and all of Law Enforcement, for their rapid response on the shooting that just took place in Butler, Pennsylvania. Most importantly, I want to extend my condolences to the family of the person at the Rally who was killed, and also to the family of another person that was badly injured. It is incredible that such an act can take place in our Country. Nothing is known at this time about the shooter, who is now dead. I was shot with a bullet that pierced the upper part of my right ear. I knew immediately that something was wrong in that I heard a whizzing sound, shots, and immediately felt the bullet ripping through the skin. Much bleeding took place, so I realized then what was happening. GOD BLESS AMERICA!”
WHAT WE THINK WE KNOW SO FAR
- gunman is dead
- Trump “is fine”
- one attendee is dead
- another attendee is in critical condition
News Sources
- CNN - Trump rushed off stage after shooting at Pennsylvania rally
- AP News - Live updates: Shooting at Trump rally is being investigated as assassination attempt, AP sources say
- The Hill - George W. Bush condemns ‘cowardly attack’ at Trump rally
- Warren Sharp (@SharpFootball) on Xitter - video interview with witness who tried to warn police before shooting happened
- Sky News - Gunshots reportedly fired at Donald Trump rally - as former president rushed off stage (Article confirms one rally attendee dead)
- Reuters - Biden says he is grateful to hear Trump is safe, has been briefed on shooting
- OAlexanderDK on Xitter - The shooter was on a roof approximately 125m or 400ft from where Trump was standing.
- JakeMRosen on Xitter - An emergency room doctor I spoke with tried to save someone’s life in the crowd
Do not advocate or celebrate violence, please. Comments advocating violence will be deleted and bans will be issued.
Also, please avoid promoting conspiracies. Discussing current events is fine but suggesting things like “it’s a false flag” without evidence is spreading a conspiracy.
A reminder, he incited people Jan 6th which resulted in deaths.
And his cult still defends the insurrectionists.
This shit was never here before because it’s likely CYA mode for Lemmy because feds could come sniffing here if copycat incidents occur.
bro the feds are already sniffing lemmy you think they arent?
They’re sniffing lemmy just like their sniffing literally every other social media platform right now.
Is it not actually called the fed…averse…
Oh so that’s why my official Lemmy moderator paycheck comes from the FBI?
(This is a joke, we are not paid)
the M stands for Money :)
fed i verse.
Federal investigation universe. Checkmate.
There is a difference between background-level bulk sniffing and someone-here-maybe-incited-violence targeted sniffing. The former is data collection, which is passive in the form practiced by “the feds”. The latter is data connection, putting effort into connecting a subset of the data that has been collected to form a story. Data connections need a framing, a nucleation seed, an impetus for why the feds might think such a connection is interesting or relevant or worth adding to their story about a larger incident. Collecting data is cheap and done in bulk, partly because it can be done passively and partly because the US govt paid a lot of money on storage and collection mechanisms. Connecting data is something that requires a lot more time, effort, patience, and vetting to make sure you are doing it right.
Or you can give the job to generative AI and hope it doesn’t hallucinate that someone innocent is guilty; with a large enough data pool (ie the internet, reality, what-have-you) it’s possible to select a misleading subset to support whatever hallucination you want.
It’s easy to do wrong, which is exactly why you don’t want the feds sniffing around. Especially now that they have the tools to automate doing it wrong, and might not know how to use them yet.
yeah obviously, but it’s all the same at the end of the day. And they definitely have people actively sniffing around social media posts surrounding this at the moment.
Two wrongs do not make a right though.
But 3 rights make a left
Ehhhh
That’s not a justification for more violence, two wrongs don’t make a right. He was wrong for doing what he did and this is wrong as well. This is because political violence in it’s entirety is wrong. Jesus, do people not have principles anymore? Seeing all the supposedly moral people turn into Q anon level conspiracy theorists who condone violence is depressing.
two wrongs don’t make a right.
You’re right. But let me tell you all about the sympathy I have for him:
.
That’s about it.
Let us take this as a reminder for everyone concerned with their own safety in a fascist state.
Guns wont do shit for you unless you regularly practice your marksmanship and keep your equipment in good condition.
A fascist exercised and practiced marksmanship today, did you, dear reader?
I don’t have any sympathy for him either, but that’s still not a reason to abandon my principles and start cheering for political violence
Why do you keep saying that when I didn’t?
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I’m not cheering for political violence
I’m not saying that you are, I’m just pointing out that, in general, lack of sympathy doesn’t justify political violence. We’re in agreement here.
The death of Hitler, sadam hussein, Bin laden and all the others who threatened the free world disagree.
But these are vastly different situations. For the record, all three of these individuals used political violence to achieve political aims, that’s one of the reasons why history doesn’t remember them fondly. The constantly killed people they didn’t like under the justification that it’s for the greater good or self defense. Saddam Hussien did that when he genocided the Kurds in Iraq and the invasion Kuwait, Hitler did that with the Holocaust and the invasion of Europe, and Bin Laden did that with 9/11 and the other terrorist attacks he launched.
Keep in mind, we actually have a justice system in this country that actually works. If we want Trump to face justice it has to go through the justice where he faces trial and is found guilty based on evidence… which has already happened btw for one of his crimes. That’s how justice is handled in a civil democracy. We can’t have randos going on self righteous terrorism crusades killing political candidates they don’t like. If someone tried assassinate Biden, would you being say the same? Probably not, and rightfully so, but the terrorist who tried to kill would be making similar justifications to what you’re trying to make right now. The very idea is wrong.
Donald Trump intentionally and maliciously mishandled an epidemic and allowed it to turn pandemic for his own stupid and shortsighted political gains. He then intentionally hindered national response.
And then he intentionally incited a literal insurrection. He has absolutely employed political violence.
I’m not here to defend him. He’s one of the worst of the presidents in our history. His list of horrendous acts goes far beyond his pandemic response and the insurrection, and it goes was past his presidency too. He’s truly awful. But with that being said, things like assassinations and terrorism should not become normalized as a legitimate way of achieving political means.
Hitler committted suicide. Any insight in how the other executions actually improved the world?
Millions of fascists were murdered to win WW2, are you saying we should’ve used strong debate language instead?
Tell me, should we have turned the other cheek during WWII? Two wrongs don’t make a right after all, right?
technically two negatives multiplied does.
We didn’t join WWII because the Nazis were bad, we joined because Japan attacked Pearl Harbor and then Hitler declared war on the US.
Exactly, should’ve just turned the other cheek, right?
No, I’m just pointing out that your comparison is flawed. We didn’t know about the Holocaust until the war was almost over. The Soviets were the first to discover and liberate the camps back in 1944 (too bad they ended up having their own brutal camps) and the Americans liberated the first camp they discovered (Ohrdruf) in April 1945… the war in Europe was over in a month. That’s when the then general Eisenhower ordered the American soldiers to find the other camps, free the captives, and take pictures of everything they came across so Nazi crimes can be thoroughly documented and the American public can be made aware of them.
My point is that we didn’t intervene in the war because of what the Nazis were doing like you seem to imply, we intervened because we got attacked and declared war on.
I didn’t say it was. You just put those words in my mouth.
Mhmm. Where exactly do you draw the line regarding use of force as a preventative measure?
When it’s used as a means to achieve power in a democracy. Normalizing violence is not okay in general, but especially during democratic elections, and this applies to everybody regardless of who does it.
A wrong makes a right if it prevents many many horrible wrongs in the future.
The ends don’t justify the means politics, that’s how you end up with terrorism, tyrannical governments, and atrocities. I’m all for bringing Trump to justice, but it has be done through civil and democratic means via the established criminal justice system. If Trump goes through trial and is found guilty, which has already happened for one of his crimes, then our criminal justice system will punish him accordingly. If the punishments aren’t deemed harsh enough then we reform our punitive laws. We can’t have self righteous assholes going on terrorism crusades assassinating political candidates they don’t like. That’s a sign of a failed state.
Tyrannical governments rise from apathy. The final governmental check is its people.
True, which is why now is the most important time to condemn political violence, get people politically active, and vote to keep the fascist wannabes out of power.
one wrong plus another wrong, generally seems to overthrow most rights throughout the history of man kind.
I’m not sure what to do with this information, but it’s present.
If by rights you mean you human rights then normalized widespread violence tends to do that, that’s the whole reason why tyranny isn’t exactly good.
if by wrongs you mean human wrongs, then i have no idea what you’re talking about.
What?
same, you and me both.
How many deaths did it result in? Cause there is only one death on Jan 6 that has ever been attributed to Jan 6.
I don’t disagree that he incited the insurrection, but making false claims doesn’t help show that the left is the party of honesty.
Why are you pretending like right-wing violence isn’t the literal leading domestic security threat?
Have you been living under a rock since 2016?
2016? It’s been since at least the 90s.
Well, yeah, I mean, we can go back a hundred years, conservatives will always be pushing violence and division whatever era you look at since they can’t hold power without it, I mostly mean it’s come out fully into the open since 2016. The mask dropped off completely and they’re no longer even pretending to be anything but the Confederacy 2.0.
The left, who? What party?
https://www.factcheck.org/2021/11/how-many-died-as-a-result-of-capitol-riot/
Babbitt plus suicides, and other “natural” deaths.
On March 7, the District of Columbia’s Police and Firefighters’ Retirement and Relief Board declared that Metropolitan Police Officer Jeffrey Smith’s suicide in the days after the Jan. 6 riot was a line-of-duty death. The board concluded “that Officer Smith sustained a personal injury on January 6, 2021, while performing his duties and that his injury was the sole and direct cause of his death.
Hey numbnuts, America doesn’t have a left and it’s the MAGA fascists that are the problem here
I know you have to say this, but holy shit do I disagree.
This person advocated significant violence and contributed to the deaths and loss of human rights of thousands. A good whack of the world would turn up hungover to work tomorrow after celebrating only a few inches over.
No better fuel for an extremist ideology then having a martyr. Trump isn’t the problem, it’s the millions who listen to him.
Trump is absolutely the problem when he’s the mouthpiece of American fascism. Why are we pretending his death would be bad? We’re a couple years from having concentration camps in the US if he wins and everyone’s wringing their hands over this attempt at saving millions of lives by taking one.
Yea it might cause a civil war, that looks unavoidable at this point anyway. I’d rather civil war than concentration camps
They’re still waving the Confederate flag. What makes you think bullets will kill this ideology in round 2?
Concentration camps? Do you actually believe that or have it based on anything?
Trump is the problem since he is the leader of the cult. Without him they dont know who to follow. If Hitler had been assassinated in one the many attemps there might have still been a WW2 but depending on how early on he was assassinated millions of people would not have been killed in concentration camps. This would have been early enough to prevent much damage Trump will do. Better would have been 2016 but that didnt happen sadly.
Everyone is forgetting Ron De Santis candidacy. Trump isn’t even gone yet and another guy already tried to rise to lead MAGA.
I fully know its pleasant to fantasize about easy solutions to difficult problems, but the world isn’t that simple.
They don’t have to say that.
Why not? Isnt that what americans claim the second amendment is for?Prevent fascism?
Sic semper tyrannis.
Communism, not Fascism, or to protect workers’ rights if you go back far enough. We only got involved in fighting fascism because we were drawn into the war, otherwise it’s never been that big of an issue to Americans and many schools aren’t even allowed to teach about it anymore because “kids shouldn’t have to feel bad about something like that” or whatever excuses the far right is currently using to prevent their schools from teaching about Anne Frank, concentration camps, slavery, anything else they want to implement themselves.
Lemmy users when they can’t advocate violence:
young_guy_straining.jpg
Advocating for violence to prevent a fascist from abolishing the democracy is the only acceptable violence. Sometimes a democracy has to be protected violently if it is too weak to protect itself. Trump allies always say its why they have the second amendment. Now that it is used against them they cry about it.
Everybody thinks their form of violence is the only acceptable violence.
The paradox of tolerance is only a paradox if you don’t believe in the social contract.
Beliefs that violate the social contract deserve no protection under it.
Violence is rarely good for anything as we have seen it just now. It would be better even if this guy shot at Biden that’s how counterproductive it is.
Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing. You cannot kill an idea but you can ridicule it
You cannot just eradicate everyone who opposes you. China tried, Soviets too. Now they have something vastly better - troll farms.
Modern problems aren’t solved with blood but with marketing.
Tell that to the Ukrainians and the Palestinians. I know you want this to be the case, but you couldn’t be more wrong if you tried.
In both cases they didn’t solve anything and only made things worse for themselves
Not sure what you mean, but Ukraine and Zelensky have been marketing themselves all over the place. They need all the help they can get, and they are doing whatever they can to boost support. So far pootin hasn’t achieved his goals so it’s working.
Appeasement of an aggressor never works. History has taught this over and over and over again. We still haven’t learned I see. I’m mainly talking about Ukraine. Palestine is a lot more complex.
You’re right, better to allow a violent oppressor to slowly eradicate your people than attempt to free or defend yourself by whatever means necessary…
Eh I think you guys see what you want to see in my comment. I was talking about Russia. putin attacked Ukraine, it was insane in any case and what did he got out of it really?
The violence on Ukraine was just plain stupid.
I am kinda surprised and amused you take me for some pacifist goodie two shoes, other cheek blah blah. funny from my pov. Idk how you extracted that from my comment, I bet you will now continue to argue with something that doesn’t exist. My congratulations
Your last point is actually not a bad analysis - but it is missing that the ones operating their propaganda and troll farms already also control the violence monopoly. And both entities also use violence where they deem it practical.
Lol how kind of you, thank you I guess
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I’m still here I see. Here’s the precious source since I’m full of shit.
NEW YORK — The leader of a conservative think tank orchestrating plans for a massive overhaul of the federal government in the event of a Republican presidential win said that the country is in the midst of a “second American Revolution” that will be bloodless “if the left allows it to be.”
Why, exactly, should we simply lie over and do nothing? How is calling for violence over this bad?
He said Monday’s decision — which gives presidents broad immunity from prosecution — is “vital” to ensure a president won’t have to “second guess, triple guess every decision they’re making in their official capacity.”
😬😬😬
Yeah, last thing I want is for the president to have to think through their decisions.
Original comment was removed for violating Lemmy’s content policy, and subsequent comment was removed for reposting the original.
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The post in question was removed for advocating violence. The mod log is public, including the original content, so it is not necessary to repost a removed comment for transparency.
spreading a conspiracy
I know this is off-topic, but can we please go back to saying “conspiracy theory”? Conspiracy and conspiracy theories are not the same. There are actual conspiracies (a secret plan by a group to do something unlawful or harmful) , and there are theories of conspiracies. They should not be confused.
Surprised you’re not already banned just for the c-word. I mean, if someone crashes their car through a storefront, I could speculate without evidence that the driver was excessively old, young, drunk, or just plain stupid and it’s left up to the reader to take my comment with a grain of salt, but if I so much as entertain the possibility of this shooting being anything besides what is being reported by official channels, I must be silenced.
How do the people get justice for a convicted criminal that’s above the law? Is there a reason why the constitution has an amendment for guns? Why are so many platforms against the constitution and against the need for correct course when apt?
Stop acting like corpo reddit admins and mods.
“Convicted criminal” who is “above the law?”
Seems like he was convicted, thus not above the law.
You keep him from being president by getting enough people to vote against him, or you accept the will of the people.
The 2nd Amendment was originally to make sure militias weren’t disarmed, in a time when militias were more relevant. Has nothing to do with political assassination.
Do you think a convicted criminal should be walking around free?
While they await sentencing? If a judge allows it, obviously yes. People have lives and jobs, if they might not even get prison time it would be cruel to force them into all the downsides of prison time (lose your job, child care difficulties) and then let them go.
Trump would be more impacted by his inability to campaign, but we only have one justice system and I don’t want to betray my beliefs on how the justice system works just because I don’t like this guy’s politics.
Most sit in jail until sentencing, and the time spent waiting will be accounted with the sentencing. I say most, because only the king walks around free.
Also convicted criminals people should not run for president. The corrupted courts made a new law, something they don’t have the power to do, where the criminals can run, explicitly the hitler felon.
How about when said political candidate openly calls for violence and murder against his opponents, to the point of asking the Supreme Court if he could assassinate people.
Maybe the 2nd amendment comes in to play a little? Last I checked we didn’t vote king George off our shores.
But we did vote Trump out of office, and he left. That’s the difference between Republics and Monarchies.
He left after his last stand Jan 6. There is lots of news coverage of that, with many arrested as well. There are plenty of vids of Trump talking about Jan 6 people, not condemning them.
Also answer one question: What was Trump asking Pence to do on Jan 6?
Trump was asking Pence to return legally cast electoral votes to the states for reconsideration on false pretenses. Yes obviously bad and we don’t want a president who would do such a thing. But not assassination worthy.
We also voted Gore IN office but whatever.
Orange Julius has become a cult god and is literally talking about assassinating rivals
…that’s the difference between republics and monarchies
Also this has been an oligarchy the whole time anyone who thinks republic is either willfully or unintentionally ignorant
We did not vote Gore or Hillary into office. They got more popular votes and lost in electoral votes, and only electoral votes count for president. They lost fair and square, in the system we have.
No the difference between republics and monarchies is not “talking about assassinating rivals.” You can say anything, that is anyone’s right. In the context from above, this difference is why political assassination is not acceptable in a republic. It would be insane to say that political assassination is OK if the person had ever talked about assassinating rivals. The penalty for distasteful speech is not death.
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“no actual discussion allowed” got it
If the only way you can discuss an assassination is by advocating for additional violence and pushing lies, then I guess not?
You are limiting discussion to centrist viewpoints, centrism caters towards permissive attitudes towards fascism. You know this.
pushing lies
How did you determine what was true in this situation and what was false? I am curious about your methodology.
True: confirmed information. False: unconfirmed information of a speculative nature. Do you see a specific issue you disagree with or are you just trying to argue?
You are just moving the problem around via definitions not actually saying what method you used to know exactly what happened yesterday.
All I asked is how you arrived at the truth. Did you see evidence that the general public didn’t? Because what I am seeing is you all are so absolutely certain you have literally compared it to Covid misinformation. Amazing, a 30 hour news event is so well understood you can compare our knowledge of it to the single most studied virus in human history months after a new variant had appeared.
It is not unreasonable how you were able to obtain information the rest of us apparently do not have and how you were able to eliminate all other alternatives so quickly.
“hey guys don’t politicize an attempted political assassination”
Not really what I said at all. “Hey guys, don’t make stuff up, please rely on credible sources, and don’t advocate for violence”.
Or, in other words: follow the rules we’ve always had in place
Advocating for, or not advocating for, violence is a political stance. Many people defend Israel’s ongoing genocide and are not blocked from doing so. That doesn’t feel like the rules being consistently enforced. The people speculating on whether or not this is staged have access to the same information as everyone else, and in the spirit of true discourse, if it was seen to be false you could figure that out by discussion rather than censorship.
.
Should I start reporting every comment that doesn’t have sources? 😂😂
I don’t personally think it was staged, but be honest … it’s not like you delete every single comment that doesn’t have sources …
Didn’t know this was the “othe r/ place” now…but… Okay.
Alright, let’s get it out ahead of time, since I’m already seeing this:
It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has? To lift his hand to his ear just as the gunshot rings out? And the idea that the shooter grazed him on purpose is, likewise, absurd. The kind of risk that would entail, to just nick his ear?
Whether the shooter was insane or politically motivated, this is a real event.
I said this in another one of these threads- it is not at all outlandish to think that someone unhinged with a gun would see the threat of a fascist dictator and decide to do something about it.
Yeah, I remember my grandfather telling the story of how Hitler held a speech at a Stadium that was visible from his attic window, and his biggest regret was, that he did not have a machinegun to take him and the other Nazi officials with him out. The US has enough guns and desperation for someone to attempt this, definitely.
What year was that?
I don’t remember him mentioning the exact year, it’s been ages and I was a child still when he was still alive, but I know it was before the Machtergreifung, because he told it as having been a rally during an election campaign, eerily fitting, I guess.
I’m not sure it would even take someone unhinged.
it happens a lot more than you would think throughout american history, sometimes with guns, sometimes without. Obama had 8 attempts throughout his terms in office. Biden has had one so far, trump has had a few, nothing more significant than obama though, except for maybe being shot, just barely.
It’s a very common gut reaction to assume something like this has to be “staged”, I said it in the other thread in some discussions: It’s understandable to have it as this feeling. But everyone who feels that way: take a breath, remember the world is much more chaotic and much less controlled than you think, you don’t have to think of yourself as stupid for thinking it, but wait for more information to come out and be ready to give it up then.
Reacting properly to this new reality is much more important, than trying to adjust reality to fit an emotion. It’s human to do that, react instinctively in a first gut reaction, but it is also human to be able to let go of that.
In the spirit of not promoting violence, I’d like to promote the alternative of the Alex Jones treatment. Gaslight the fucker and set a conspiracy in motion to hound him the rest of his days.
I am hoping it results in visible signs of PTSD. That would be a modern Tar & Feathering.
I agree. We’re all just processing this and should probably take a break and come back when there is more info and we can think critically. That said, this is very scary, like, I feel like my physical safety is at risk because of this. So, not knowing what others are going through, I’m going to have some compassion for any initial reactions. People are having these same discussions face to face right now but not everyone can do that and may need to.
the way i like to look at it, is that it doesn’t matter whether it was staged or not, it still happened. People still died, people still evacuated, trump still got shot, none of that changes.
If it does, you’re doing a conspiracy theory, and you should stop.
I think it absolutely does matter for the political conclusions.
But at the very least it is far to early to get into these conspiracies, even if the events had unfolded very differently like the bullets not hitting anywhere close.
However given what we already know and what was caught by dozens of cameras, all the points the conspiracy theorists are coming up with are just insane.
it does inevitably matter, but as of right now, we barely even know who did it, so conspiracies aren’t going to help at all. That was mainly my point behind the comment.
I don’t doubt the shooter was genuinely trying to kill him. But I also think there are an unprecedented number of Republicans and Democrats who would be secretly relieved if their own party’s candidate were assassinated.
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Two for the price of one! Nah real talk biden sucks but he doesn’t deserve to get assassinated.
Thank you. And fuck the idiots spouting off with the “staged” nonsense. The time to believe something is staged is when you have evidence that it was.
People are obviously on high alert, considering how far Trump is willing to go given Jan 6th. From the Reichstag fire to the Russian apartment bombings, such events manufactured or actual have profound impact on public perception and action. Naomi Klein’s (not to be confused with the nut job Naomi Wolf) The Shock Doctrine details this well.
No sign this was a false flag, but holy fuck does it have terrible implications.
Oh, it’s all tongue-in-cheek, and yet: quid pro quo.
Trump’s entire persona is built on lies, it shouldn’t be a surprise that it’s many people’s first thought.
But it shouldn’t be. He shows no signs - cognitively speaking - of being capable of putting something like this together as a stage-managed event, and all of his past stage-managed events have been shitshows because he micromanages everything and he’s incompetent.
i mean honestly, it’s scary, but it’s also not a good time to be an american right now, from the immunity rulling to the jan 6th delays, and all the other bullshit going on, things seem to be getting vastly more interesting now than they were just a few months ago.
Yeah, a 120 meter shot to graze does not exist. One inch to the right and he’s dead. With wind variables and stuff, the shooter who can reliably pull that off in one shot or volley does not exist.
Everyone keeps saying it can’t be staged because it was so close.
I just wanted to point out it can be both staged and a successful assassination if the end goal is to point the finger at the left and martyr a polarizing figure.
That’s not staged then. That’s just an inside job.
Ah, okay-- thanks.
That’s the same thing …
Staged means they set it up like a movie shoot and nobody was ever in danger.
With a better rifle and a spotter maybe.
Edit. Just want to say I don’t think it’s a false flag in anyway. Just speculating lol
Not how guns work I’m afraid. I wouldn’t trust Olympic shooter with that type of shot at a closer distance.
It is not marvel movie, you don’t go for the head.
It’s probably not staged. Trump reacts quickly - the fuck kind of timing you think that bloated potato has?
it’s absolutely what you would expect the reaction to be. Much like burning your hand on a stove where your brain deals with the situation a lot quicker than you can logically process it, these kinds of injuries can do the same thing. It’s more than likely the people surrounding him that clued him in on it quicker than anything. That’s the one thing you would be prepared to expect.
Yeah, if you’re going to stage a fake assassination, you don’t fire a bullet a couple inches away from a kill shot. It’s crazy how close this was to a successful attempt.
If it was staged then they are playing a very risky game. It doesn’t take much error to make a bullet that grazes your ear dome you. It’s basically certain that this wasn’t staged.
Did you guys hear Richard Simmons died? So sad.
And Dr. Ruth :(
They noped out of wherever the fuck this chapter of America is headed.
No way! Oh man! I feel like the teenage late night radio listening part of my heart just died.
I think Death has some explaining to do.
What peeves me is that the right are all clutching their pearls about anyone who says anything other than blind Trump sympathy. Don’t get me wrong, political violence is wrong. But, remember this:
When Paul Pelosi got his face bashed in with a hammer, the right made fun of it. Mocked him. Idk, man.
If you’re planning to take out an aspiring despot, you better be damn sure of your shot
The great recession, a global pandemic, and now a second American civil war. I want off this train.
Don’t forget the climate change!
*bullet train
They don’t have those in the US. They went with mega highways instead
And a lot of bullets. We have those
Ah. The American bullet train – an outdated and slow train carrying excessive amounts of ammunition!
whaddaya know, I guess we do have bullet trains
Daaaamn
Guy tries to overthrow the country, and people are worried that someone tried to kill him. What is wrong with this world. If people aren’t trying to kill him we have something to worried about.
The justice system failed to arrest and detain the suspect and keep him imprisoned until charged properly. This isn’t a failure of the people, it is a failure of the government.
I can’t wait for Trump to turn pro-gun control.
Wouldn’t be the first time. Conservatives are conservative up until the moment someone uses freedom from government oversight in a way that hurts or inconveniences them. Then they’re all, “There oughta be a law against blah blah blah” without an iota of self-awareness.
I like it when they say it’s not about guns, it’s about mental health and then you say okay, let’s have universal healthcare and they say, “no, not like that!”
Right? I’m 100% ready to agree with them on the mental health aspect, let’s address that by giving people healthcare and access to food and housing
But that’s not cruel enough for them
He literally said “take the guns, then do process [sic]” years ago
The bump stock ban overturned by the Supreme Court was put in place by Trump. He is not pro-gun.
He’s not pro-gun. Neither is he anti-gun.
He’s pro-Trump. He’ll say anything if he thinks he’ll get more money (and now, enough votes to escape his crimes). You won’t find a single issue he hasn’t flip-flopped on except “How can this make Trump richer?”
He’s not pro-gun.
I just said that.
Neither is he anti-gun.
I’m not very convinced of that.
“It takes so long to go to court to get the due process procedures I like taking the guns early like in this crazy man’s case that just took place in Florida he had a lot of firearms and they saw everything to go to court would have taken a long, long time so you could exactly what you’re saying but take the guns first, go through due process second.” - Trump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=du4xz6Lndxk&t=43sHe’s pro-Trump.
I wouldn’t argue with that.
Man, I would love to watch his supporters work through the dissonance on that one. On one hand, they already chose Trump over their god… On the other hand, “come and take it” culture is right up there with evangelicalism as far as being really ingrained.
Sure Trump wants to take some of our guns, but Biden wants to take them all!
“Trump only wants to take the guns from those people, not us!”
Conveniently ignoring the circle of who qualifies as those people is ever expanding…
I love when people downvote your comments as if half the shit you say on here isn’t facetious.
Guys, I’m pretty sure they don’t actually think Biden is going to take your guns
Nobody understands me.
Trump was harder on guns than Obama was.
Nah, they’ll just say they need more guns.
I mean this is the world he wants, you can’t dog whistle people to take up arms against tyranny without a comfortable acceptance of the irony pool you are filling. Everyone will try to spin this to their political advantage but the truth is this is the level of political discourse the right has been driving towards.
Biden added: “Jill and I are grateful to the Secret Service for getting him to safety. There’s no place for this kind of violence in America. We must unite as one nation to condemn it,”
I added that to the mega thread. Thanks!
I didn’t need this fucking stress on top of everything else. I only hope that the poll bump he’ll get for this is short-lived.
He is going to win. We’ve already been over this. Maybe now you can start the process of coming to terms with what that actually means.
You are not psychic.
I can appreciate where [email protected] is coming from.
I personally feel that 2008 was the tipping point for a lot of people and we’ve been reeling from it ever since.
While things may have been bad before, it really does feel like the intensity has increased dramatically ever since Trump was first elected. These people have become emboldened, and no longer keeping themselves in check. Any sense of decorum and decency are things of the past.
You are welcome to dismiss me as nothing more than an over dramatic doomer, but I have a feeling I’m not the only one who feels this way. It’s not about being right or wrong. It’s about being overwhelmed and mentally drained about being able to do anything positive about it.
Anecdotally, I would guess this is part of their motivation for the attempted assassination. They were likely so overwhelmed that they felt the only solution was to try to kill Trump.
And if that’s even remotely true, that’s a fault of society as a whole as much as it is the shooter’s fault.
One way or the other, we are at a pivotal moment in American history; and I’m not just being dramatic. There is a lot on the line for both sides no matter who wins in November.
My analysis isn’t based on extra-sensory perception. I am able to look at the facts as they are presented from a rational, unemotional perspective. It is how I knew Hillary was going to lose in 2016, and it is how I know Biden is going to lose in 2024.
There are no facts presented to you now that can tell you definitively what will happen in November.
You being correct one time does not make you correct this time.
We shall see.
No we won’t, because all you are doing is calling heads or tails. You have a 1:2 chance of being right regardless of why you are making your prediction.
Look honestly at the historical context and externalities of the moment you are in, and tell me you think it is a coin toss.
Lol…it sounds like you’re saying that you know all of the answers because you don’t use your emotions when you think…haha
That not how inductive reasoning works. Look into absurdism (philosophy)
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Your cognitive dissonance is strong,
… do you even know what that term means?
Yes, I do. Which is precisely how I know you are engaged in that behavior now. It is a very hard thing to accept that you are living in a country that is going to usher in fascism with thunderous applause. But regardless of how you feel about it, that is what is happening before your very eyes. It is important to be objective about that so you are able to evaluate what you can do to fight back once that becomes necessary.
. It is a very hard thing to accept that you are living in a country that is going to usher in fascism with thunderous applause.
Okay, so you don’t actually know, you just think it means ‘not accepting (what you see as) reality’. Thanks for confirming.
Cognitive dissonance is described as the mental disturbance people feel when their beliefs and actions are inconsistent and contradictory
Here, I’ll give you an example you can perhaps identify with. You spent multiple comments strawmaning my arguments, putting words in my mouth, and gaslighting me for saying Biden had absolutely no chance of victory two days ago.
You then attempted to suggest that I did not care about political violence, and that I was uneducated about important modern historical events in an attempt to delegitimize my points about removing Biden as the nominee.
This is you today:
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The comment in question contained a personal insult against another user and was removed for incivility. The mod log is public.
Please don’t repost removed comments. You can link to the comment or mod log if you have questions about a particular moderation action. All decisions may be appealed by DMing a mod for additional review.
How does one link a specific blocked comment in the mod log? I don’t see any way to do this?
I am not sure that you can link to an individual comment, but you can link to the community mod log or the user mod log depending on the circumstance. Or you can link to the individual comment in the thread, even if it has been removed.
It is preferred to reach out to a moderator(s) by direct message, in which case you could include a screen image of the mod log along with your question.
I understand why one may have an interest in asking questions publicly, although it makes is very difficult for mods to respond (unless you tag us). If you are interesting in getting a response, this is perhaps the least efficient way. We are assured to see report, and likely to see a DM in a much more reasonable time.
Also, I am not really seeing a personal insult? Criticism of personal dissonance, yeah, but is that an insult?
I believe the mods were attempting to stop PugJesus and I from engaging in a slap fight, but you see how well that worked out.
PugJesus is like the Ur-Liberal (derogatory)
I don’t know what that means, but he is annoying.
This event just shows that anything can happen at any moment. Nothing is a sure thing. Not a Trump win, not a Biden win, and not a win for any other candidate who may run.
So, I am fearing this will not only rally all Trump supporters to really vote for and support him extra hard, and get some undecideds to his side for his martyr status, but it might also spark a wave of stochastic terrorism and shootings by some right-wingers acting out, who will want to deliver justice to whatever group they will blame.
There is definitely some danger of this potentially spiraling, not guaranteed, but that will depend on some more potentially chaotic weeks ahead. Stay safe, stay prepared, stay organised.
I bet Trump is perversely happy he got shot. He can be a Real Brave Man, now. How much attention it gets him. How much more clout he believes he will get because he will weasel some political capital out of it. Heaven help us if the shooter was liberal, this man is fine with dog whistling violence and more than a few of his followers are itching to engage in it. It won’t matter one whit how many people have been killed or hurt by right wingers.
I was excited at first, then sad. Trump’s death would be the only way american people get justice as he’s clearly above the law. Can’t believe all the news hasn’t called him felon trump, instead calling him president trump, dropping the former.
I bet there will be a retaliatory attack on his Biden
at least. and Kamala just because she’s a black woman.
I mean, the right is already committing violence against its enemies, the media just fails to report it as what it is. Instead it’s “lone wolves” and “mental health problems”. Rittenhouse literally shot people on camera and got away with it “because skateboard”.
Daniel Perry murdered someone after driving his car into a crowd and was pardoned because Abbott agreed with his politics.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Garrett_Foster
The right is perfectly fine with violence that supports them.
The fact that he claimed self-defense really goes to show how far the MAGA attitude of being “victimized” goes. Literally plows his car into a crowd of people and then claims self-defense when shooting someone.
well to be fair it’s not unusual to get away scot free after murdering people with your car, that shit happens all the time
He didn’t murder anyone with his car. He drove into a crowd then shot someone.
I doubt it. Something like this already happened before in 2017. A deranged Bernie supporter went to a congressional baseball game and tried to shoot as many Republicans as he could. He ended up killing 6 people. However, despite that, there were no reactionary shootings. It was an isolated incident. I think this will be the same, or at least I hope.
You do realize the Las Vegas shooting was literally like 3 months later, right?
We literally have no idea what Stephen Paddock’s motivation was. The Las Vegas shooting was not a reaction to the congressional shooting
Read your first sentence, then read your second sentence. Then do it again a few more times, and then ask yourself why I would listen to anything you say?
There’s nothing wrong with what I said. You can’t give criminals motives nor can you give different crimes connections based on your personal opinions. The matter of fact here is that despite numerous investigations, we still don’t know why the Las Vegas shooter did what he did. If evidences surfaces that he was indeed motivated and inspired by the congressional shooting that happened shortly prior then we can establish such a connection, but until that happens we can’t.
Please don’t repeat the names of mass shooters.
I disagree, I think their names should be known and their crimes studied. We can’t erase what they did, nor should we. We have to discuss and research these fucked up individuals otherwise how are we going to come up with a solution for the root cause of the issue?
Study them, yes. But that doesn’t require making their names and faces commonplace. Most research is done without broadcasting people’s names and faces to the world. Heck - when I was doing analysis for HHS I wasn’t given anybody’s name or picture at all.
Some of these killers are seeking fame and attention, and by giving it to them we encourage others.
But giving infamy to that Brock rapist guy is okay right? Just double checking.
Didn’t get change his name recently? The rapist guy named Brock or something?
That is a fair point, I’ll keep that in mind.
With the number of shootings that happen in the US… Pointing out a seemingly unrelated incident that occurred months later is ridiculous cherry picking.
Why take a chance on Biden getting replaced with a good candidate?
