arguing that it’s not real consent if the only alternative is shelling out yet another monthly subscription fee
Very true, and hopefully many other verdicts will follow, like "It’s not real consent if…this or that.
This dark pattern has started to spread everywhere already.
It’s not consent if there are fifty pages of legalese to read before you press accept.
I’m a big fan of TOSDR and recommend everyone check it out. It’s a site dedicated to translating TOS and EULA into English by attorneys working pro-bono. It’s amazing what you’ll find in some of those agreements.
I’m a big fan of TOSDR and recommend everyone check it out.
I did not know this existed, thank you!
Except to the extent that any such waiver is prohibited by law, you hereby waive the benefit of any provision of law known as “moral rights” or “droit moral” or any similar law in any country of the world.
Wow, I didn’t even know it was possible to waive our moral rights, some heavy shit right there.
And I had to lol when I saw it was coming from Blizzard of all places.
Edit: It’s actually a different kind of morals, not in the general public sense (Right vs Wrong) definition that we all know.
Still seems immoral though, controlling someone else’s work, as if it is your own, so thoroughly.
I’m guessing that’s not enforceable per much anywhere, hence the “unless prohibited by law” part. But they stick it in there so they can scare you into giving up a legal fight. Most terms of service are throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks.
I’m guessing that’s not enforceable per much anywhere, hence the “unless prohibited by law” part.
My understanding is it actually is enforceable, as other companies also use that clause. Having said that, IANAL.
But they stick it in there so they can scare you into giving up a legal fight. Most terms of service are throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks.
/agree
Just because everyone does it doesn’t make it legal, it just means there aren’t penalties for putting it in. That’s why everyone goes 5-10mph over the speed limit, lack of enforcement doesn’t make something legal.
The escorts in the comments wildin’ out. Sheesh.
I’m a big fan of TOSDR and recommend everyone check it out.
Also, you really should make a separate post about this, to bring awareness more widely.
Second this. I stumbled across this thread, and the arguments are solid, could absolutely bring greater benefit to the community as its own post in my opinion.
Go for it. I’m still pretty new to Lemmy. I don’t want it getting ignored because people think I’m a bot because of my new account. Lol
fifty
I can hear PayPal giggling
I wish they’d do that in the US for the stupid TOS nonsense they pull. I’m guessing a lot of it wouldn’t hold up in court, but it’s unlikely to get challenged because an individual just doesn’t have the resources to do so, so it chills people into going along with it.
For example:
- forced arbitration is on all the things now
- Motorola’s sketchy forfeiture of rights if you flash your phone’s bootloader
- “warranty stickers” - the FTC has actually cracked down a bit, but companies still try to do it
A lot of this is hidden behind dozens of pages of TOS that pretty much nobody reads. A general, “massive TOS isn’t real consent” law could do wonders to improve consumer protections. Specifically, this is what I’d like to see:
- any contract must be reasonably understood by an individual with an 8th grade education
- contracts stay in force unless both parties agree to a change, and service may not be interrupted just because of a failure to agree to new terms
- no forced arbitration, though private arbitration may be used if both parties consent
- anything more than an average person can read in 5 minutes requires a formal contract, not a TOS
Or something along those lines. Consumer protections suck here, and I think this could solve a lot of the problems. Airing dirty laundry can solve a lot of problems.
Some good ideas here. Probably go with a word limit in your last bullet instead of the 5 minutes
Yeah, that’s probably legally reasonable. I’m sure a real lawyer could propose better restrictions as well.
“Nice data you got there. Be a shame if someone sold that for a premium”
Please pull out of EU, it will be so much easier to convince more of my family to use signal.
They keep throwing around threats of leaving.
Do it… do it you absolute chickens.
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Even if they comply, I’d rather not have to use WhatsApp
Leaving the EU could be an option.
Meta seemed to think that was a threat that would get the EU to cave to their demands and the regulators’ response was basically
Chad EU vs virgin meta
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out!
Wouldn’t that be a treat!
Dreams are free and can’t be tracked.
Say one decides to pay…what guarantees do I get that my data won’t be used or that I won’t get targeted?
This is great!
I wonder how many € I can rent an EU citizenship for ;-)
It’s not about EU citizenship but if you are actually living in the EU.
My VPN says I do
You guys might have a point… I was thinking they would impose some kind of draconian verification as the next impediment to compliance.
Also kinda thinking about those weird “travel agencies” that let you rent a return flight so you can get your visa approved.
But if it really is anyone on EU soil they truly may be out of options.
Is cutting his hair an option? If he needs, I have a device that uses gravity to chop things…
🇪🇺🇪🇺🇪🇺
