TLDR: StartAllBack, ExplorerPatcher and some other projects are being blocked on 24H2.
One more reason to switch to Linux
The Microsoft devs have time to do shit like this, but haven’t yet gotten the Settings screen as functional as Control Panel was two decades ago…
I really hate having the taskbar permanently affixed to the bottom of my screen. I’ve had it on the left side for decades now. They are really throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Someone at Microsoft “Customization is the enemy of progress!”
I’m on 10 and been a top taskbar guy for years. Are you saying 11 forces you to have taskbar only on bottom?
Correct
Welp fuck. Guess I’ll start looking at Linux but every company I’ve worked for in the past 10 years is ALL Microsoft all the way
Wine does a Lotta shit. I know I have an NTFS drive running on my debian-family machine.
I have no idea what you’re trying to say
You can run a lot of windows apps on Linux even if they don’t say they’re compatible, with a tool called WINE
Also, it matters less if youre a little tipsy.
In Win98 we were able to put the taskbar anywhere natively and even could split those quick launch toolbars out of it and put it on another side by itself. I can’t believe MS is constantly removing features. I’m a Linux user for decades now, but I still also use Windows at work and it’s always bothered me MS re-invents the wheel so often and every time the wheel looks a bit more like a rectangle.
I have been missing the ability to split the quick launch and dock it since XP was the last time you could. I had a dedicated auto hiding bar on the right where I put shortcuts to all of my most used folders and applications. I have looked for solutions that brought that functionality back off and on, but never found anything.
Most things are close, but not quite right, and/or very “bloated” (for what I want it to do, not necessarily for what it was designed to do). It’s so dumb.
Just a slight correction, Vista was the last time you could split toolbars off of the taskbar like that, its taskbar was basically the same as XP still. The redesign in 7 was when we lost that ability.
Will say the docked toolbars did look significantly worse in vista as they all got an wide aero border
Huh, thinking about it I’m not sure if I ever really ran Vista on my main desktop at home, so that would make sense. I think I went from my roided out XP x64 image to win 7 despite using Vista quite a bit when working on customer’s PCs. Thanks for the correction, cheers.
Why? Why even fucking do this? What do they get? And why is their default ux so aggressively terrible?
They want you to use the search instead of a functional interface. That’s why they keep making the interface worse.
It lets them spy on you through bing, allows them to fill the results with ads, and lets them hide system applications unless you know exactly how to find them.
It’s also them gearing up towards funneling the entire UX through copilot for largely the same reasons.
The entire goal is to flip the operating system from the slave of the user to the master of the content.
As to how rationales go, this is the clearest.
I hate it.
Yeah that sounds probable, and I’m worried what happens to all the data on windows machines when they do.
Hmmm, maybe Windows hired some of the GNOME developers
Not even gnome is this fucking awful.
Gnome is nothing like Windows. I honestly can’t think of a DE further away from how windows works than Gnome lol. It’s KDE and Cinnamon that copied the tried and tested Windows UX paradigm, perhaps you have your DEs muddled…
The whole ethos of Gnome is throwing out the Windows workflow and going with a completely reimagined one completely unshackled from traditional UX.
Is this just one of those gnome=evilsuperbad comments
Not the person you replied to, but I think I get his meaning.
Windows/MS obviously has strong opinion on how the desktop should look like and behave and they’re shoveling it to the user hard. Gnome tends to do the same thing, although the UI/UX is completely different. Yet the similarity is in the forceful pushing said concept to the user whether user likes it or not.
Sure there are plugins for gnome so you can customize it a lot after all, but it requires some tinkering and your regular not tech savvy user won’t ever find a way to do so.
//edit: not hating on gnome. I kind of like its concept and used it for some time, although I don’t use it myself as my daily driver now.
The difference being that people go out of their way to use Gnome. People opt in to the developers vision because they see it as a good one.
Nothing is forced. Gnome doesn’t “force” you to do anything, or to use their product. And they allow any customisation you want, they’re just clear that they don’t provide any support for stuff that you mess around with.
Windows isn’t like that at all.
I don’t really agree. Imagine you were happy user of old Gnome 2, like e.g. my father. Then out of sudden Gnome 3 came, totally different in every aspect. What were your options? Either deal with it or get something different. Experienced users might (easily) overcome this, but regular user struggle. In case of my dad it meant return to windows…
Sure gnome doesn’t force you to use it. Neither does MS with windows. You’re free to install whatever you like, even TempleOS if you want.
Well you could also disagree that the earth revolves around the sun, but it doesn’t make it so.
MS does force you to use windows. They used anti-competitive practices to place themselves in a monopoly position. They forced their products into schools and governments, they forced it on OEMs, etc.
Gnome devs aren’t your slaves. It’s their project and they’re allowed to have preferences. If you don’t like their decisions, cool. Don’t use it.
If you don’t like what they do, don’t install gnome. The same goes for anything else in the FOSS world.
What a novel idea. I’m also allowed to have preferences and post them on the Internet. I’m also allowed to have bad takes.
It doesn’t change the fact that GNOME and Windows are defaults in certain spheres of computing. Which tends to people bitching about the choices those projects make. Certainly as a home user I’m not forced to use them but what about as an employee or student. But I’m your worldview I should opt to be homeless and uneducated.
Anyway, my comment wasn’t entirely fuck GNOME. Their design philosophy is minimalism and simplicity sometimes at the behest of options. Which is not unlike the choice Windows made here. However, that’s not too say that it’s always a bad choice, KDE may have too many options. But, yes, I was being a bit tongue in cheek.
Thanks,
Original guy you replied to
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Gnome’s demented ideas make it into apps I run in KDE. I don’t need buttons, drop-down menus, and text input fields in my title bar lol. I’m lookin at you, LACT.
Look, I appreciate you want a Windows imitation, but not everybody does, ok
Gnome is copying windows by putting buttons on the title bar lol
Lol, no.
Just keep using your “but we have windows at home” imitation.
Gnome has amazing ideas, that’s why they’re so successful. If you don’t like the software that’s being provided to you for free, don’t use it.
And yes, we get it, you use KDE btw. How about you just accept that different people want different things and that FOSS developers are free to make what they want, and you’re free to not use it.
Well let’s not forget the corporate sponsorship from the biggest player in Linux, preferable release cycle, and preferable license back in the day.
That’s part of Gnome being a well-run DE, yes.
Eh, I admit my comment is kind of tongue in cheek and it isn’t my favorite DE but I used it for a while (esp 2.0). I think it’s kind of a stretch to call it shitting on though. Their design philosophy is literally simplicity and consistency. Which sometimes comes at the behest of customization. That’s not shitting it just is what it is.
The fact you’re getting downvoted for this is insane lol
Some people structure their entire personality around hating a random successful Linux DE. It’s fucking weird.
This submission is about Microsoft being bad, but apparently it’s Gnome’s fault lol. The Linux community is so ridiculously toxic lmao
They’re not exactly “being blocked” but rather the legacy ability to tell explorer.exe to load the older style Taskbar, which those apps load then modify, is going away. I’m not defending this nor do I like it, but it would be like saying some Linux distro is BLOCKING customization because some legacy app dependent on Xorg will not work after they switch to Wayland.
They’re not exactly “being blocked”
Simply renaming the executable works to re-enable Start All Back. They are being intentionally blocked by Microsoft.
Like in the case of StartAllBack, you can bypass the block by simply renaming the executable to something else. If you want to upgrade to a newer build, delete the app, update your system, and then launch it using a renamed executable.
Not if you’re using the preview build, where the entire functionality is removed. The warning is just a preemptive preparation for beta users. The bottom of the article indirectly mentions this.
But sure, downvote me.
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The article is actually incomplete. Some insider builds already lack the old taskbar, it can’t be invoked and if an application relies on it you simply get a crash.
This is not new behavior from Windows. When legacy features are going to be removed, they do stagger updates when users have known software conflicts installed, they also might throw warnings. This is exactly what we are seeing now.
Though the fact this small article is just reporting on Reddit information rather than testing insider builds is not my fault nor my concern.
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sounds like a 21st century version of quack3.exe.
Why is Microsoft even deciding what programs I can run on my computer in the first place? They’re not malware, they shouldn’t be doing this at all.
It’s the Windows Defender component. Blocking things that interfere with your computer is literally what it was designed and intended to do.
Wow, now I’m really glad I switched to Linux. Windows? Never again.
- Microsoft blocks app with major security and performance concerns from Russian dev.
Fixed that headline for ya, big guy.
Hmm. Russia or Russian programmers were not in the article. The only reason was performance:
It is possible that Microsoft blocked those apps due to a higher number of crashes on build 26100, which is allegedly version 24H2 RTM build.
You realize you can get info from other sources right? Not just this one article?
Site your source
What? You can’t do simple research now?
Dev: https://msfn.org/board/profile/36858-tihiy/
Dyor. This is Lemmy, not reddit.
Regardless, always cite source
What’s your source on that? That you always have to cite source? Not a rule on lemmy.
Checked your comment history, you make many claims and cite no sources. So what is this really about?
Seems like you want to argue for the sake of arguing.
Good luck my bro
Thanks for the link, but I still do not see where it says “Microsoft blocked apps because of Russian dev.”
The dev says that it’s related to depreciated features, not the country of origin:
Well, this has to do with myriad feature flags around copilot and working area hacks MS is doing. But generally classic taskbar is dead code and 24H2 is going bring only degradations and pain.
Aaand another reason to stay with 10.
Windows 10 is filled with shit decisions too. And it won’t be supported much longer anyway. If you want to keep using Windows, but not 11, it’s going to be advisable that you use it offline only.
You’re right on all counts.
And I am not happy about about any of this.
Of yeah, and then there is this: Microsoft’s draconian Windows 11 restrictions will send an estimated 240 million PCs to the landfill when Windows 10 hits end of life in 2025
The irony is that people create these tools mostly because they’re frustrated by the limited customisation options provided by default. If Microsoft ever listens to feedback, it’s quite limited, and it takes ages for the new stuff get implemented; moreover very often you just about get used to something and the rug gets pulled from under your feet.
Micro$oft are being dicks again, film at 11 but here’s the thing - if you’re interested in customizing Windows - just grab that live distro and get to it man. Linux is here and it’s ready for prime time.
At this point Windows is just for businesses who don’t know better (or refuse to learn) and people who haven’t been told The Good News yet.
Sorry, it’s not ready for prime time.
It’s great for advanced users who are willing to put in the effort to work for them as a desktop.
It’s also great as a host for services.
And is dogshit in a business environment.
As some background - I had my first UNIX class in about 1990. I wrote my first Fortran program on a Sperry Rand Univac (punched cards) in about 1985. Cobol was immediately after Fortran (wish I’d stuck with Cobol). So I was in IT working before Linux existed.
I run a Mint laptop. Power management is a joke. Configured it as best as possible, walked in the other day and it was dead. Windows would never do this, unless you went out of your way to config power management to kill the battery.
There no way even possible via the GUI to config power management for things like low/critical battery conditions /actions.
There are many reasons why Linux doesn’t compete with Windows on the desktop - this is just one glaring one. So many run-of-the mill things that take effort to deal with.
Now let’s look at Office. Open an Excel spreadsheet with tables in any app other than excel. Tables are something that’s just a given in excel, takes 10 seconds to setup, and you get automatic sorting and filtering, with near-zero effort. No, I’m not setting up a DB in an open-source competitor to Access. That’s just too much effort for simple sorting and filtering tasks, and isn’t realistically shareable with other people.
There’s that print monitor that’s on by default, and can only be shut up by using a command line. Wtf? In the 21st century?
Networking… Yea, samba works, but how do you clear creds you used one time to connect to a share, even though you didn’t say “save creds”? Oh, yea, command line again or go download an app to clear them for for you. Smh.
Someone else said it better than me:
Every time I’ve installed Linux as my main OS (many, many times since I was younger), it gets to an eventual point where every single thing I want to do requires googling around to figure out problems. While it’s gotten much better, I always ended up reinstalling Windows or using my work Mac. Like one day I turn it on and the monitor doesn’t look right. So I installed twenty things, run some arbitrary collection of commands, and it works… only it doesn’t save my preferences.
So then I need to dig into .bashrc or .bash_profile (is bashrc even running? Hey let me investigate that first for 45 minutes) and get the command to run automatically… but that doesn’t work, so now I can’t boot… so I have to research (on my phone now, since the machine deathscreens me once the OS tries to load) how to fix that… then I am writing config lines for my specific monitor so it can access the native resolution… wait, does the config delimit by spaces, or by tabs?? anyway, it’s been four hours, it’s 3:00am and I’m like Bryan Cranston in that clip from Malcolm in the Middle where he has a car engine up in the air all because he tried to change a lightbulb.
And then I get a new monitor, and it happens all damn over again. Oh shit, I got a new mouse too, and the drivers aren’t supported - great! I finally made it to Friday night and now that I have 12 minutes away from my insane 16 month old, I can’t wait to search for some drivers so I can get the cursor acceleration disabled. Or enabled. Or configured? What was I even trying to do again? What led me to this?
I just can’t do it anymore. People who understand it more than I will downvote and call me an idiot, but you can all kiss my ass because I refuse to do the computing equivalent of building a radio out of coconuts on a deserted island of ancient Linux forum posts because I want to have Spotify open on startup EVERY time and not just one time. I have tried to get into Linux as a main dev environment since 1997 and I’ve loved/liked/loathed it, in that order, every single time.
I respect the shit out of the many people who are far, far smarter than me who a) built this stuff, and 2) spend their free time making Windows/Mac stuff work on a Linux environment, but the part of me who liked to experiment with Linux has been shot and killed and left to rot in a ditch along the interstate.
Now I love Linux for my services: Proxmox, UnRAID, TrueNAS, containers for Syncthing, PiHole, Owncloud/NextCloud, CasaOS/Yuno, etc, etc. I even run a few Windows VM’s on Linux (Proxmox) because that’s better than running Linux VM’s on a Windows server.
Linux is brilliant for this stuff. Just not brilliant for a desktop, let alone in a business environment, or for most users who are used to Windows/Office.
If it were 40 years ago, maybe Linux would’ve had a chance to beat MS, even then it would’ve required settling on a single GUI (which is arguably half of why Windows became a standard, the other half being a common API), a common build (so the same tools/utilities are always available), and a commitment to put usability for the inexperienced user first.
These are what MS did in the 1980’s to make Windows attractive to the 3 groups who contend with desktops: developers, business management, end users.
As a very advanced user, I just don’t have the time to play fuck-fuck with Linux on a desktop - I have work to do with what little time I have.
Here’s a question: if Linux truly competes with Windows, why don’t massive organizations that have the IT manpower/expertise use it for their desktops? They’d save millions in licensing alone. Why is it they feel those tens of millions are better spent on contracts with MS?
See, ive had Linux problems, but my problem with windows is that I gave to actively fight the system to get anything done. It feels like PvP, and there’s fiat bullshit reverts of stuff. And the GUI is runny garbage!
Linux isn’t good enough, I agree.
But windows is far enough into enshitification that it isnt either anymore, and its getting worse. So fucking fast; its getting worse. I fucking miss usable windows; I’d still be on 7 if I could. But I can’t.
So if at this point Linux isn’t adequate, that means computers aren’t adequate. I use Linux so I don’t lose my computer, so it can do something at least.
Linux isnt quite ready for prime time.
But neither is windows anymore, and Linux isnt generally shitting itself and taking features, features you might rely on away from you
The fucking precarity of modern windows, man. Plus the amount it must spy on you.
This will be true when Linux supports anticheat (well, when anticheat supports Linux).
Sure, not everyone uses their computer for gaming, but I’m sure a lot would like the option.
well, when anticheat supports Linux
It certainly does in many games. Helldivers 2, Hunt: Showdown, and Warframe are rated gold on Linux, Guild Wars 2 is rated platinum. Those are the first four multiplayer games that came to mind.
You have my attention, as someone who’s been considering switching my main to a Linux.
Those are all great games, but the unfortunate truth is that you’re still going to be limited. Some people may be totally okay with only playing the games that get support but I feel like I’d always feel like I’m missing out if a game I’m really interested in doesnt.
only games you’ll be missing is games with invasive kernal level drm/anticheat.
most people with common sense tend to avoid those games and their rootkits to begin with, so you’re really missing nothing by switching.
Sometimes theres a game that doesnt run great at the moment but within 3-6 months runs like a dream.
I’ll switch to Linux when Visual Studio Community (NOT Code) works on it and I never have to touch the command line ever again.
A wasted opportunity to natively support these features and make the user base happy.
Oh boy, another reason to switch to Linux. Thanks Microsoft
Yet another reason I’m glad I already did.
I’ve booted into windows twice total since I switched last year. And as such my hardware has remained untainted by W11.
One of us, one of us!
One reason not to switch to linux: I want to play PCVR with my Quest 2. It has a really bad stutter when moving around using the only tool that works: ALVR, and this makes VR unplayable. I have not found an actual solution, just a handful of speculative issues threads that go silent as to what is the answer if any.
User won’t switch to Linux because of lack of software support, company won’t support Linux because of lack of user, such a vicious circle
The solution is to probably not use the Quest 2. And that’s a pretty crappy solution.
But VR on Linux sucks in general, so if you really need VR, it’s probably best to stick with Windows. I really hope things improve because I’d really like to play with VR, but I’m unwilling to use Windows or make a Meta account, so I’m sitting on the sidelines until a reasonably affordable headset ($500-ish) with reasonably good app support on Linux is available.
Laughs loudly in perfectly working steam index on Linux.
Pico 4, though instead of Meta it’s the Chinese
I didn’t get my headset new, I got it on ebay for cheap. I also made a Meta account specifically for the Quest and nothing else.
ALVR works on Linux with Quest 2, BeatSaber works fine, dont know much about other games.
Yeah you should stay on windows and never check out Linux. Hopefully ques too is great.
Remember the days when Microsoft would block ClassicShell the same way they did StartAllBack here, on Win10?
Pepperridge farm remembers :V
… I don’t, actually, I’ve been using ClassicShell basically since the day Win10 came out and it’s always worked perfectly. Don’t think I’ve even updated it actually.
Its something happened waaay back during the technical preview days. Just like with this instance, the workaround was to rename the installer executable.
https://winaero.com/microsoft-to-block-classic-shell-in-windows-10-here-is-why/
And I think you should update to OpenShell at least.
I can’t use win11 without explorerpatcher, if it stops working I won’t know what to do
I can see why they’d do it. Windows is a corporate product and MSFT wants everyone’s experience to be tailored to exactly how they think is best. Gives some Apple vibes.
I think at this point MSFT knows the average user is just gonna keep using Windows so they don’t really care about tailoring to individuals. I expect to see a lot more of this.
The thing about Windows, or the thing that is going away, was that it has the possibility of being modified and customised, which made it more freedom respecting than macOS.
From the windows registry, group policies, PE functionality, Windows was the commercial platform for tinkerers, businesses and professionals. It’s basically what made Windows awesome.
Now, with ads in the menu, Microsoft being horny for apple’s app store vendor lock-in since Windows 8 and depriving the user of any kind of control, we finally see Microsoft emerge as one of the most evil companies to ever exist.
Why? Read their history, because even with the good things they did with Windows, there’s a thousand bad, and you should never play devil’s advocate for them. They, nor Apple, deserves it.
Also: use Linux or BSD, pls.
