Unfortunately, I drive a ghetto minivan which causes the police to profile me and has caused people in small towns to call the police on me if I am in a public park or in their neighborhood. I even had someone call the police on me at campground that I had pre-paid for and the police were not sympathetic at all to my right to just exist.
I am aware of stop and identify laws and know that a cop needs reasonable suspicion to demand to see your ID. However, can’t the cop just make up some lies about reasonable suspicion?
If a cop approaches me can I immediately start with: “Officer, do you have reasonable suspicion that a crime has occurred, is in the process of occurring, or is about to occur?” It seems like that will immediately escalate things even if technically the law is on my side.
I just want a damn right to exist law and to not be a target for an overactive imagination by the police which treats me like a criminal until they can check me for warrants.
Honestly, I want to tell them to fuck off right away but I also don’t have money for a lawyer.
Not sure if it’d help, but you could stick a buuunch of camping, hiking, outdoors, etc. stickers on your van. Try to turn its image from a “ghetto” van to a “hippy / outdoor enthusiast” van. I imagine you can order large sticker packs online for very cheap.
Yeah, that is a good idea. It would probably work best on a VW van like the kind surfers use. I suppose with enough stickers strategically placed it could look like you were into rock climbing, or surfing, or something involving the outdoors.
Just a heads-up, vans with climbing stickers can attract break-ins because they tell people “there’s a bunch of expensive gear in here that would be easy to fence”. Happens all the time in vegas. Hope you stay safe out there!
Maybe a bunch of penguin stickers and one that says, “Ask me about Linux!”
Might hurt on date night, though.
“There’s a bunch of computers in there! But we don’t know how to use them.”
However, you don’t want to live in a VW surfer van. They’re cold as hell at night, zero insulation. Also they’re decades behind safety standards, in a collision with anything, they crumple like a soda can.
They look iconic, but I don’t recommend it in practice.
Best idea in the thread. You see old subies covered in REI and mountain climbing and hiking and backpacking stickers everywhere
If you’re not doing anything illegal then I highly recommend keeping your hands out in the open where they can see both of them, and politely answering their questions.
They have a gun, so its not about right/wrong, it’s about your own safety. You don’t know if that’s a decent one or a shitty one.
Yeah, you are right. Once I opened the door when I got pulled over by Border Patrol. I opened it because my power window was broken. They did not like me opening the door.
Many police departments in the US are explicitly trained to treat encounters with people as potential combat situations. They get taught lessons like “Your first job is to go home alive.” It’s continually drilled into them how dangerous their job is, even though that’s not statistically true. This obligates you to treat an encounter with an officer as a potentially life threatening situation.
If your window isn’t working, do not open your door. Police regularly approach a traffic stop prepared for a violent confrontation, sometimes going so far as resting their hand on their firearm.
I worked on a military base for a while, where each vehicle was stopped to show ID badges. The right approach is to say (and mime - eg point at the window, point down, and shake your head “no”) that your window isn’t working. They’ll probably take a step back and tell you to open the door.
It’s wrong, it needs to change, but until it does we need to adapt our behaviors to fit the situations we are put into.
Solid post. These guys get “warrior” training. Like they are embedded with the enemy. When you set the general tone like that, common folk are at a disadvantage right out of the gate.
Be respectful and polite and try to escape the situation with as little impact as possible.
Lt. Colonel David Grossman is not the worst thing to happen to american policing but he’s sure not helping anything.
oh that’s the dickhead with the silly killing mentality right?
having a van that works properly would probably help your credibility, yes.
/lh
Assuming this is USA, the phrase you’re looking for is “Am I being detained, or am I free to go?”
For a more detailed answer, this is what the ACLU has to say.
God I love living in a developed country where the Police executes and does not judge (not USA)
You don’t. It just hasn’t happened to you yet.
“What seems to be the problem officer?” Is how you should start every conversation with the police. Be polite, respectful, and firm in your rights. And most importantly don’t say more than the answer to legal questions.
To me that sounds like it’s opening the door by assuming there’s a problem. I think I’d lead with “good morning sir” and let them start talking.
I disagree solely because you want to be the one asking why the cop is there and the cop is going to try to beat you to that punch. If they ask why you think there’s a problem “a police officer is getting my attention” is a valid response.
Anyway if anyone wonders why cops are hated, it’s the fact that ordinary law abiding citizens need to learn the special language that makes cops not get aggressive and accuse you of crimes.
Say “hi”.
Damn being white guy is the best shit ever.
I think you might enjoy this song:
I’m sorry officer. I didn’t know I couldn’t do that.
That was such a a good bit. I remember when I saw it thinking about the time I got turned around at a major transit center and drove in the restricted area. Cops gave me a look, I rolled down my window and just said I was sorry and was going to leave.
When cops don’t know the laws they are enforcing and thus telling your rights is not only seen as demeaning since it’s their job to know, but makes them actively hostile and more likely to violate those rights out of embarrassment, it’s a no win scenario. Better to just go along with their security theater and say as little as possible outside of answering direct questions.
You only have rights if you survive the encounter first.
- Always record the police.
- STFU.
But sometimes you can tell that the police will get violent if you don’t lick their boots, so if you have to change your game plan, do what you need to do to.
What color are you? Pigs basically use
as training material, so the darker shade you are the more careful you gotta be with slow hand movements and clear communication.The answer is “am I being detained or am I free to go?” The answer to every question after is “lawyer” or shut the fuck up. Every day is Shut The Fuck Up Friday.
STFU Friday is gospel. Especially the one with Michael Rappaport.
If you’re in a vehicle, they do have the right to check if you’re the registered owner, are licensed and insured, tags up to date, etc.
Best advice:
Longer, but the most important 45 minutes you can spend today:
tl;dw - The Miranda warning tells you everything you need to know: “Anything you say can and will be used AGAINST YOU.” Not for you, AGAINST YOU.
Nothing you say to the cops will be used to help you, so do not talk to them.
If I see them approaching from far away and hop out of the vehicle am I then a pedestrian and no longer count as being in my vehicle?
Unless they see you exiting the vehicle.
The only thing that really matters is if you are driving or not. So if the vehicle is turned off and the keys are out of the ignition, you are not a driver. Therefore they cannot issue any moving violations or any similar driving related citations. Unless you are illegally parked, that’s another issue.
If they are already approaching you, and you jump out of the car, that would look automatically suspicious to the suspicion-filled pig brain. So if you want to get out just do that before they approach.
Nah, if you are in control of the vehicle. Meaning if you have the keys and the ability to turn it on and drive. Sleeping drunk in a vehicle can get you a DUI even if the car is off and you’re parked.
Seems to me you can be charged with DUI if you’re drunk and in a car regardless of whether the keys are in it or not?
I don’t think so
You shut the fuck up is what you do and film them if possible. Are you under arrest? No. Then police may not detain you without cause. See ya!
All inexperienced young people who get into issues with cops or landlords seem to want to be as deferential as possible, thinking that will mitigate any trouble that’s coming their way. But in essence, these people always ask for ways to make the cops/landlord’s job easier. Don’t tell them what words they need to say to you, don’t ask for specific paperwork. It’s their job to remove your personal freedoms and liberties, why would you make it easier for them to do that?
Are you living out of said van? That complicates things quite a bit. If you really are just chillin’ just show them your ID and get on with it. None of these dudes are trained and are already aggressive towards you.
Are you living out of said van?
Yes, I am.
Don’t show them your ID then. If I were you I wouldn’t chill anywhere longer than thirty minutes during the day. Misery loves company so that shit is illegal in a lot of places. I dont know of any of them but I vaguely remember forums about surviving like this on reddit.
Yep, I agree with you. I do move around a lot. But I also paid for a spot at a campground where you’re supposed to be able to just chill and I still got harassed.
Check the rules for the campground next time you pay for a spot. Sometimes they sneak shit in there where you actually can’t be camping out of your car. I haven’t seen that where I live in the southwest. But I have seen people post about it in northern states.
Yeah, you’re right about that. I have seen those rules about car camping. Not sure what they were at the campground I was at but I got there around 1:30PM and was only there an hour before the deputy sheriff showed up. Even if that campground had a rule like that it was only 2:30 in the afternoon and surely there wouldn’t have been a “you must set up your tent within x minutes of arriving” rule. Cops suck! And the people who call cops because their overactive imagination gets the best of them suck too!
get a decoy tent. /s
maybe cleaning it will help. the difference between someone’s “i’m gonna haul shit” van and a drug dealer’s van is often just the amount of dirt and the straightness of the panels.
Best bet? Get some local PD/Sherrif or PBA (or equivalent) stickers and place near the rear license plate and on the glass by the driver side A pillar.
Watching it now, thanks! It sucks that you have to study the law for rights you already have but “it is what it is”.
To the guy downvoting every time I comment - do you feel powerful doing that? I even got a downvote for simply stating the country I live in. Dude, I live in a van and I get harassed by cops. I’m just trying to get some advice from people (like that Youtube link @David_Eight just posted) Keep downvoting, you’re not going to make my life any worse.
@David_Eight
Thanks for that video. I want to be like that kid. He wasn’t always the most elegant with his words but he was right the entire time. That’s what I would like to do when the cops show up. I’d just like to state my rights, ask am I free to go, and then have them go away.
I didn’t read the whole thread before linking that video, so a few things to consider.
- There is no federal law stating that sleeping in your is illegal but, some states and or cities do. So if you’re in a state or city where it IS ILLEGAL, definitely don’t do this lol. They’ll just arrest you.
- If it IS LEGAL where you are, theoretically you don’t have to move and can stay as long as you want. But, the cops will escalate things and start looking for other reasons to arrest our fuckery you.
- Have you considered going to a 24hr gym or something similar? So if anyone hassles you, you’re just going to the gym. Just an idea.
- If your renting a camp site you do have “Campers Rights” and can tell the cops to fuck off. I remember watching a similar video to the one I linked about that specifically. I’ll add it later if I can find it. Best of luck though 🖖
If you want to legally be able to tell police to leave you alone, unfortunately being in a car probably isnt the right move.
‘That’s not exactly how the Founders framed the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, but it is what Craig and Marc Wasserman want you to do.’
"Why did you pull me over? I’m not discussing my day. Am I being detained or am I free to go? If detained, you say, “I invoke the Fifth [Amendment],’ and then you shut the fuck up.”
Thanks for that article. I do agree with it. But this might be similar to “there’s plenty of dead pedestrians who thought they had the right of way”. I already know that technically I can refuse to show my ID without reasonable suspicion but if the cop arrests me illegally I still have to go to court to assert my legal rights and I can’t afford the money or the time.
Dead right.
There isn’t any kind of script that I know of that actually prevents cops from being cops, sometimes this helps.
I used to hop freight trains, often with at least tacit permission from the crews ( I’ve driven locos before). Cops are a different beast as you know. It’s taking each one individually, but still you are going to get screwed sometimes.
I’ve been banged up for ‘attitude’ and let off when one of the guys I was with had pron the cop liked.
