Truth is the second option one is just a normal ass guy. Everyone has emotions and needs. The fact is it’s still taboo to be a “man” and have emotions.
Like honestly tell me any other option on there is preferable to someone with emotions… She acting like women don’t require the same thing? Gtfoh. It’s not even a bad thing. It’s just a human thing.
What she’s referring to isn’t the same as having emotions. She means the people who expect everyone around them, especially their romantic partner, to manage their emotions for them. Plenty of women do it, too.
No, that’s the narcissist. She’s referring to having to help someone with their emotional needs. Sounds moreso like she needs to work on her own if it’s laborious to support her partner emotionally.
one of the main points and benefits of a relationship is being able to share problems with someone else and have someone that could cheer you up or to share excitement with
‘emotional labor’ is for actual jobs, especially customer service type jobs
She’s referring to overly emotional men, who need extra attention; guys who can’t handle failure or rejection, who have a bad day at work and then can’t help around the house at all at night and who expect their partner to take care of them, regardless of how their partner’s day went. I know the type of dude she’s talking about and I wouldn’t want my daughter to bring one home. Dude needs a mother not a partner.
Nope this is a list of all the men available, like she said. She’s painting all emotional men with the same brush. There are good men and bad men in each of those categories she listed, but she thinks we’re all bad.
So I cry and need a hug sometimes? Emotional labor. I can describe the full range of emotions I feel to a partner and deal with them in a healthy way? Gross.
You have a victim mentality. You are looking for this stuff and you’re finding it. The post does not say that.
“As we seek so shall we find.”
I know who I am. I’m just reading what she said. That’s the dating pool.
Let me ask you this:
How could a decent man possibly respond to a post like that without being lumped into it, like you just did to me?
They could not respond, just be present at home with their family.
Yes, I suppose we could just become more silent and withdrawn, couldn’t we?
Let me try a different tack. I know I have issues. I’ve been working on myself for years. As men, we mostly experience negative reinforcement with emotional growth.
But if we are trying to get healthy, how are we supposed to respond to that kind of invalidating talk, inside our own heads? What if the woman saying that kind of stuff isn’t just venting her frustration onto the internet, what if she’s saying it to us, in a relationship? Does that kind of talk inspire us to improve or push us into darker places? Is complaining about us like this in any way helping to improve the way men and women interact?
Once again you’re making it the woman’s job to help you improve yourself. You’re going to see and hear things that put you in a dark place. That’s life. Bringing yourself back to a middle ground of contendedness requires constant self work.
I’m sorry you have problems. Not everyone breaks the wheel.
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So she wants a guy with a low sex drive, who she doesnt have to have any emotional attachment to, but who emotionally invested in her, that doesnt have any self confidence, and doesnt know any feminist theory so he cant tell he’s in a toxic relationship and doesnt treat her like “shit” (an equal)
is it too much to ask for?
Sounds like she’ll shout: “worship me as I am your goddess” and “I demand tribute” on a regular basis.
Is that not a normal thing to do?
That depends, are you a goa’uld?
Depends on the context.
In the bedroom: yes
In a Porsche showroom: no
Some guys are into that
Tell me you’ve never actually dated a grown-up woman before.
When did she say she wanted a man with low sex drive? Being a porn addict doesn’t mean you have a high sex drive. It means you’re addicted to pornography.
When did she say any of what you wrote? Have you heard of being an even-tempered man who has sex with women but doesn’t degrade them or neg them in order to do it, who doesn’t need to trauma-dump on their gf because they’ve already worked through their shit? Your inference into what she posted tells us more about you than her.
Yes please take my dumb lemmy comment about a dumb 4chan post about a dumb tweet extremely seriously and try to start an argument with me by attacking my character. That’s a very good use of your time.
Hmm I think you might be some of the red flags she’s talking about especially the manipulative one.
That seems a bit hard on the dudes.
It’s kinda exhausting seeing progressive language constantly used to rag on men. I want men to be anti-racist / feminist / LGBT allies / etc. I get that there are a lot of problems with many streams of masculinity and people who have been hurt by those have a right to complain, but goddamn. I would not expect lots of women to be attracted to a movement that constantly complains about women.
That’s why a lot of people oppose third wave feminism. It stop being about uplifting women and about pushing men down to achieve the goals. It forgot that the original goal was to raise the standards for everyone to equality.
A lot of males face issues that women face as well. But when there’s a portion of people basically saying you’re scum for being born a man… It’s very tiring and eventually it starts to feel like “well if you don’t care about me, why should I keep caring about you?”
you’re scum for being born a man
No people in the real world say this. This is something that exists purely in social media and the anonymous Internet.
This whole thread seems filled with people who view men as victims of something. They aren’t.
A man can be a victim, sure.
Men, as a group, are not general victims of anything they didn’t choose.
Someone, somewhere, says this unironically. If you want to avoid pedantic arguments about the meanings of words, use “virtually no one in real life says this.” When you say “no one says this,” two or three examples of people saying it is evidence against you. When you say “virtually no one says this in real life,” those two or three examples become evidence that it’s hard to find people actually saying it
You are right.
Cause thats unusual…
That seems a bit hard on the dudes.
Fitting since it’s a discussion about dating pool. It’s not pretty out there for guys
I have no idea who this chick is, but it aint exactly a string of hits for us guys out here either. People suck in general.
Well, if we’re generalizing THAT much, the dating pool for guys is just as bad.
We’ve got:
-women who will go out with you just for a free dinner date, then never talk to you again
-women who are looking for sugar daddies
-women obsessed with their socials (IG, TikTok, etc)
-women so unnatural you question they can still be considered human (lip fillers, butt lifts, boob jobs, have you ever heard of the term “Bimbofication”?)
-all of the above
In reality, there are so many more people in this world that don’t fit any of these categories on the men or women side. It’s just that a lot of the “dating pool” she’s talking about is centered around dating apps. The real world is so much more diverse.
How about “astrology and crystals are my personality”
I was with a girl in her room and when she started teaching me about astrology, I just bursted out laughing with how dumb it was. Basically, what you just said before but 10x worse with this girl, there were rocks fucking everywhere. I’m suprised Hank from Breaking Bad didn’t show up.
Hank was busy with a PTSD episode that day…
E: apparently I can’t spell a 4-letter word.
Your forgetting the “I have sex” girl.
Having sex is basically her whole personality.
Those women are the worst. Where do they hang out so I can avoid them?
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Relationships are emotional labor on both sides
Maybe she should find someone outside those social media pools then.
Social Media Influencer: “All men are trash. Everyone I meet just wants to stare at me, fuck me, or use me as a trophy.”
Same Social Media Influencer: “Five Amazing Tricks to instantly get a stud’s attention. When his friends see you with him, they will be so jealous!”
Guys who ask you about your Linux distro on the first date (none of which are hard for enough)
> guys who post on lemmy
also raving communists
and Star Trek utopists
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People calling the effort you put in to support your partners, friends and family “emotional labor” are either blatantly misinformed or people who want a pass on not giving a shit about their “close ones”.
Emotional labor, as a term, was created to explain the difficulties and effort someone has to engage in to regulate their emotions when they’re constantly dealing with the suffering of other people during work. It’s valid, just as long as you use it in its appropriate context. This dumbass appropriation of the term by a certain branch of liberals is like if someone used the physical concept of entropy to justify why they’re never getting out of depression.
If someone only wants emotionless relationships with people they only interact with for their own benefit, and never giving a care in turn, that’s legitimate, as long as they don’t lie about their intentions. But that might also explain why this Hannah at the OP cannot find a good partner.
The irony about depression and entropy is that is actually a pretty good analogy. Depresson, just like entropy, will only cool down more and more over time. You quite directly have to put in effort to solve depresson just like ‘something’ has to be countering entropy for difference to remain. Entropy untreated leaves you with nothing to work with much like depresson.
It works well as a metaphor, which is why people might be fooled to think there might be a direct parallelism without understanding the insurmountable differences between both (depression may be very hard to get out of if you’re in a downwards spiral, but definitely possible, while entropy is literally an inevitability of the Universe, as far as our understanding of physics goes) which is why I compared it to the popular appropriation of emotional labor, which notices the poetic similarity but is unable to understand the actual differences between both.
Meanwhile the dating pool for men contains the following:
Crickets
No no, there’s tons and tons of scam accounts that all use the same pictures of a hot Asian supermodel, who all try to get you to buy them 10k of Bitcoin in exchange for the promise of a handy or whatever
I’ve seen her. Her breasts are like softballs duct taped to a broom.
Still would.
Requirements:
Woman (optional)
“No one wants to date me, it must be their fault.”
That comes with other connotations so we’ll say it’s just a joke for right now.
The dating pool for young men is literally
-OF models
-“Sensitive” girls you have to perform constant emotional labor for
-Narcissistic (if not sociopathic) insta models
-Emotionally abusive manipulators
-Spambots
Add gold diggers to the list
Gold diggers are not in the pool for non-rich
I hate that I’m the second, and so aggressively that it’s hurt relationships before
if i tried to comfort you about it, though, wouldn’t that just perpetuate and enable the problem?…actually no, i can’t even joke about it. I’m sorry people left you feeling emotionally abandoned, bro. It’s not fair that you get put under this double standard. The fact is, everyone needs emotional labor. Another word for emotional labor is goddamn fucking empathy and SOME PEOPLE don’t want to show any toward men.
THOSE people don’t matter. The kind of woman who would look at you as a burden would, in fact, be a burden upon you.
You are worthy of love. You are worth the investment of psychological and emotional energy. You have value even above and beyond intrinsic value as a human being. And if you were here, I’d be taking us both out for tacos and/or ice cream right goddamn now.
I think this statement about emotional labour is being misinterpreted and knee jerk reactioned. People are getting angry and jumping to conclusions about men not being allowed to have emotions, but that isn’t it.
Of course partners are supposed to support each other. What this is talking about is someone who prioritizes their emotional needs over the other person the majority of the time to the detriment of the relationship. Your partner is there to be your partner - the role of full time therapist is above their pay grade. And I’m wondering whether this is highlighted as an issue because men are less likely to seek therapy where needed and rely on their partner for this. Helping your partner through issues is one thing but sometimes it’s healthy and necessary to zoom out and get perspective from a professional. This happened in my relationship and I had to honestly and kindly say I don’t have the expertise to help you with this issue. I’m willing to hold space for you and sit with you as you navigate it but you do need the help of a professional to unpack this.
Have you ever had a friend who every time you hang out with and the whole time it’s them talking about themselves and their issues to the point where they don’t even show any interest in you. You’re effectively acting like that person’s therapist 100% of the time.
I had an ex brother in law like this. He had many mental health challenges but everything was 100% about him all the time for the whole family. His likes, his dislikes, his issues, his interests. He’d ask a short how are you and dive right into all his shit. If the event or conversation didn’t revolve around him, he would leave and disengage. It sucks the air out of the room and it’s fucking exhausting for everyone.
The reason people are responding negatively is because, regardless of what she MEANS, she did not say it with any hint of deference what so ever. She isn’t being nuanced. She isn’t painting a line where men can be emotional and accepted. She’s just whining that the available men that aren’t in the other camps are too much emotional labor.
That conveys literally nothing positive to men. Everyone understands lopping off bad parts of toxic masculinity, but people need to remember that men NEED that emotional support, especially if they’re only just getting out of toxic masculinity: they won’t have many tools to healthily deal with immature emotions.
While it is absolutely reading in to it, she is clearly leaving the room there for that interpretation by only speaking negatively of men in genral. She’s literally only shitting on all single men, and people are surprised single men aren’t happy with that message??
If people are going to Twitter expecting nuanced, perfectly balanced and fleshed out essays then that’s an internet literacy problem. Men give all sorts of opinions on the internet about how women should be, dress, look, have sex, etc - I don’t see how this is any different.
I’d agree with her opinion in the context that it’s the same for any friendship, or relationship honestly. If you are so sensitive and vulnerable with me all the time that it’s unbalanced and I have no room to have and express my own emotions then it is not a friendship that is worth keeping. It’s not black and white be a stone or be a puddle. It’s that relationships are built on empathy and empathy is an exchange. Just as I hold space to help you through your issues, you too need to hold space for me.
There was a post on I saw on Lemmy a while ago of an OP asking for friends in a local community because they lacked friends due to a laundry list of baggage and mental health issues - they felt that friendship could solve those. The issue is why would anyone see that and be like wow that is a fun positive person I want to be around, I’m totally equipped to handle all of that. No - the solution was why doesn’t that OP go to a therapist or support group and work on those issues first where it is possible to find community related to those particular issues.
The basis of any relationship can’t be one party constantly being the pump-up person and emotional cheerleader for the other party, which is a role that women fall into A LOT. This goes both ways obviously no matter what your gender, but women in my experience tend to spread out their emotional support needs across a larger network - friends, family, therapists etc. It’s actually become something my sister and I have noticed with our guy friends - they like hanging out with us because we do talk about our emotions, and they feel freer to talk about theirs. However, no one person monopolizes the conversation.
I have another friend who every time she shows up to a party she talks about all of her past trauma. It’s a lot. We have sat with her on multiple occasions but the friend group now has to move her along from talking about it because it can easily spiral and become the basis for the whole night. This person needs therapy in a big way and we have encouraged this. But if the relationship is one sided and you’re not having fun and getting anything out of it, what do you do? How do you proceed if this person won’t also follow through to do the work on themselves? A quote that struck me lately: “Mental health is not your fault, but it is your responsibility.”
If men are getting out of toxic masculinity and are not equipped to be in a healthy relationship they need to seek therapy for help with that. It is above any partner’s pay grade to shepherd them through that alone if they do not also have the support of a therapist.
How many times on the internet do I see “Your wife/gf isn’t having sex? Break up with her!” There could be many reasons for this. If there is a libido mismatch, if there’s something mentally or physically wrong. If the non-sexual partner isn’t willing to do the work on themselves to arrive at a compromise, isn’t seeking outside help, and then wants the sexual partner to do all of the work 100% of the time, then yeah what exactly do people expect the sexual partner to do other than break up?
I’m not arguing there is zero not-mean interpretations. I’m only saying she poisoned the well thoroughly.
The whole concept of emotional labour is designed to sell therapy.
I think you’ve got a point here:
LABELING it “Emotional Labor” commoditizes it - turns a natural process of humanity into a product. To be sold.
I think there’s a balance here. I have the gut reaction to the concept as you do, but I’ve also on too many occasions put too much on loved ones and had to learn to not take more than my fair share and I’ve had a partner who was constantly in need of emotional assistance and it was exhausting.
It should be like money between friends. If you’re keeping count a problem is happening, maybe it’s that someone didn’t contribute their fair share enough that you noticed and it’s starting to put a burden on others or maybe you’re overly commoditizing your relationships.
I definitely think there is an over commodification of relationships problem on the left at the moment. But I think the root causes are a little that everyone is spread thin and exhausted and also that we’ve gotten words for these ways in which some people take too much and our communities have gotten weak. A strong community defaults to giving what is needed, but recipients make a point to return contributions with what they can give.
Along with everything else, yes.
It is a labor and some people do take more than their fair share. As a man this term did help me understand some people who left me feeling completely drained every time I hung out with them.
Eh, the Twitter person can go fuck themselves. Both partners deserve emotional support and comfort. That’s what being in a partnership is about. Just because men are pigeonholed by toxic masculinity doesn’t mean we don’t need emotional validation.
Yeah she sounds absolutely unhinged. I don’t expect my SO to manage my emotions for me, but I absolutely rely on her for emotional support, just as she relies on me for the same. Living is hard but we make it better by experiencing life together.
This post could be reversed in gender and be women who:
- Expect to have NSFW social accounts and contacts while being in a committed relationship
- Need constant emotional or financial support and are unable to manage their own emotions, usually in a parasitic manner of being overtly dependent
- Think their relationships are a competition, so they both need to constantly “one up” each other on things like physique, income, accomplishments, and often compare their partners on that “scale” to other potential partners
- Play hard to get and expect constant work from one side of the relationship while maintaining an aloof effort themselves
- Support feminism and equality in a way that is “treat me like a queen and not an equal, showering me with gifts and affection purely because I am a woman”
I think everyone could benefit from following the lyrics in Bo Burnham’s song: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=llGvsgN17CQ Be a loving human toward your partner, and expect them to do the same
Eh, I wouldn’t take that at face value. Sometimes women use that “emotional labor” line when they’re the ones who expect a ton of emotional labor from their male partner but have no desire to give any effort the other way. I’m not gonna try to claim that’s the norm or whatever but it does happen.
It’s normal to be the second. Everyone has emotions. If your partner/ex can’t handle that, tell them to go date an AI robot.
As a woman whose had the same struggle it really does suck, but I can say from personal experience it can be improved and there are ways to deal with it.
I’ve been on both sides of it actually and I think I learned this behavior from my parents who I grew up comforting.
One big piece of advice I have is that it’s too easy to flip between extremes here. The response to close off doesn’t help. I have two big techniques that’re helping me here: cbt practice, and pre processing. The latter is basically I step away from loved ones when I’m having too much emotions. Sometimes that means taking a walk without my phone, sometimes it’s locking myself in a room to cry. I get the big stuff out of the way so I can share my feelings while they’re at a manageable level.
Easy, just go bi and date other women. You still have the option for men.
Edit also it’s unfair to say what she’s saying anyways. I almost feel like your dating pool options or choices are more a reflection of you than other people. Or idk, maybe some people get unlucky.
Yeah she’s gonna have a rough time
There are probably also a lot of single autistic spectrums who are actively avoiding interacting with the rest of the pool.
Gr8 b8 m8
That’s why I date women
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