I made a similar post a couple of years ago, but I think it’s time again after seeing a few nice-guy/incel posts here. So, guys who have made it to the other side, what would you say to your previous self? I’ll leave my own personal answer in a comment below.
Go places that people want to go, do things that people want to do. Live an interesting life and people will find you interesting.
For me it was Motorcycles. I had one, I knew cool roads, nice views, interesting villages and I was constantly out at get togethers.
I met my fiancée at a BBQ hosted by a motorcycle gear shop. She was interested in cool roads, nice views, interesting towns and so interested in me. Motorcycling (like body building) generally doesn’t attract women, it attracts men, don’t motorcycle for girls.
Before that. I attended dance class. I met a bunch of people, there’s music, exercise, skill expression, creativity, physical contact (I danced Lindy Hop) natural endorphine producers.
I didn’t creep, I was polite, I expressed positivity (If you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything. No-one knew the songs I hated, but they knew the ones i liked. People would seek me out for those songs because they knew it was gonna be A DANCE, etc) and semi groomed (clean, not stylish). I did the lesson as best I could, there were always more “leads” than “follows” so I was always in demand for the free dance time at the end. I asked them how they were, and (I cannot stress enough: WITHOUT CREEPING) about their lives. It’s not an interview, it’s a conversation, not everyone is a potential date. I was primarily there to learn to dance Lindy Hop and Charleston, meeting very pretty, in shape girls was a massive side benefit. Talking to them just kinda happens, you’re together for a few minutes dancing away, might as well ask her name.
If conversation is hard, it is for me, practice at work. Force yourself to learn about people’s lives, learn how to make it natural, learn how to recognise your hitting a boundary before crossing it. Work is great, people are forced to talk to you and you’ll find extroverts (easy mode) and introverts (hard mode) there. When you have introverts telling you what they’re up to, you know you can make people feel valued through conversation.
The truth is don’t do anything for girls, any girl, that isn’t a collection of red flags, can sense the insincerity. Do a thing you want to do, and go places where a girl that is interested in that thing might go.
Downside is the boundaries are narrower at work and if you do cross them, it makes the whole thing a lot more creepy and could have more potential consequences in a place that doesn’t just tolerate workplace sexual harassment.
I do wonder how many guys are unaware of how creepy some things might be because of their own experiences. Like, I had a guy show up at my work before normal hours while I was alone to try to hit on me and did so by asking such wonderful questions as “are you alone?” and “how often are you alone?” (along with a consecutive series of several other similar flags). And yet I can’t help but wonder if he had no clue how creepy someone would find such. Honestly, I didn’t even think the interaction was creepy until I realized he was trying to hit on me without actually showing any interest in me beyond my body, when it would be alone, and its opinion on reporting SA. I don’t get how someone could possibly think that’s a good way to try to hook up with someone no matter how “friendly” or “nice” you are in the interaction, and yet that wasn’t the last time he tried. Maybe I just don’t get hook-up culture or something.
Not a downside at all in my opinion. There’s a framework and consequences for infractions. (Not really, but in theory)
I love innuendo as humour. I learned not to use it for everyone, everywhere, all the time precisely because I would have been sacked. I’m naturally quite flirty as a person, which I also learned to temper by not getting sacked. I was forced to learn how to ask about that thing you talked about last week. Which forced me to pay attention to what you say this week, so I can ask next week.
So to the dance group: I had already learned what is/n’t appropriate for work, which is close enough for acquaintances. Conversation happens, a bit of personality creeps (intended) out, they back away (I’ve learned to recognise when someone shuts down a conversation at work) I apologise, life goes on me a little the wiser. Or, a bit of personality creeps out, my partner lowers the tone too, life is fun. Usually, when I feel I’ve known someone enough, I’ll let them know I have gutter humour and will flirt with anyone, apologise in advance, let them know I don’t mean anything by it, and that I’m doing my best. I started this because those like me identify and we get to the good times sooner, those not like me don’t identify and I’m more aware around them.
Too many, and I’m sure I’m guilty of running right up against that line more often than I’m aware. Then again, I’ll flirt with anyone that flirts with me (and I mean anyone), but I’m not looking to hookup at all, engaged and all that.