The co-founder of failed cryptocurrency exchange FTX pleaded not guilty to a seven count indictment charging him with wire fraud, securities fraud and money laundering.
An attorney for FTX co-founder Sam Bankman-Fried said in federal court Tuesday his client has to subsist on bread, water and peanut butter because the jail he’s in isn’t accommodating his vegan diet.
Welcome to the American corrections system, abuses like this and worse happen every day and we just don’t normally hear about them because the defendants aren’t famous like this one is
It’s funny because the little shits like him who think they are smarter and above the law, are the same people who are going to power trip on him in jail. I really hope he spends the rest of his life there, see what it’s like to be shorthanded for once.
The article says that he can already get vegetarian and that they’re looking into getting vegan.
Most of the fruit, veg, rice, beans, oats, grits, bread, salad, condiments, pasta, juice etc. on the menu would be vegan any way. There might some mixed with milk or butter, but most is just going to be boiled, baked or fried in oil. Plus all the stuff from the commissary.
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I think it’s crazy the number is people here who think that jail/prison is supposed to primarily be about punishment. Do they not understand the concept of recitavism?
Recidivism:
the tendency of a convicted criminal to reoffend.
“the prison has succeeded in reducing recidivism”
Good bot.
I… think that is a human
Goodest bot.
W’ell compromise, Good Cyborg.
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I think that’s an American thing compared to the rest of the world. Their prisons seem to be very much about punishment over rehabilitation.
What does the idea of punishing people even solve in the first place? It doesn’t help them, in fact it actually hurts them. It doesn’t teach them how to be better people, so they’re likely to do the same thing again. Oh yeah and it wastes resources on punishing these people, resources that could be going to regular people but are instead essentially being wasted to torture someone instead of trying to help them.
I bet somebody’s going to come out of the woodwork and try and argue that prison helps people somehow, by punishing them and making them scared, though I’ve found that making people scared is the wrong way of going about making them into a better person, because scared people just like animals will react, and it’s not pretty when they do.
Punishing evildoers doesn’t hurt me, it only helps me. What does hurt me and millions of other Americans is when looney-bin cultists like you take the worst offenders and exploit them to manipulate and bully their victims and the victims’ supporters into caving to your insane demands just so you can make yourself feel better. That’s what actually hurts people.
That’s some mental gymnastics to claim someone disagreeing with you is hurting people.
I am all for mitigating recidivism. I also think some people are just evil and won’t reform. Someone who did the things SBF did won’t reform.
See also: This asshole.
It’s because most people saying this shit live in America where all prisons are for pure cruelty and punishment, not rehabilitation.
You see, here in America prisons are an industry that generates profits for stakeholders. True rehabilitation would cut into their profits, therefore they do everything in their power to ensure you never leave, and if you do they will leave you with enough mental trauma and behavioral issues that you will return.
Corporate media propaganda ensures americans continue to support this shit just like all the rest of the fucked up shit around here. Thanks corporate America!
If SBF was free, he would clearly not be able to reoffend. Some folk go to prison for “rehabilitation,” some to die, but his sentence is a punishment.
He hasn’t been sentenced or convicted yet.
I keep seeing the sentiment in this thread that if you go to prison you basically deserve whatever happens to you, which is a fucked up stance in itself, but more importantly:
Why do the cows, chickens, etc. deserve to suffer because someone is in prison? Does that make sense in any moral framework? How would you feel if we bagged random people not guilty of anything and forced prisoners to watch them tortured “on their behalf” as a form of punishment? That’s pretty much the same situation ethically and everyone would agree it’s fucked up.
Yeah I admit I’m very torn about this. On the one hand this idiot kid managed to blast through 50 fucking BILLION dollars of other peoples’ money and shows zero remorse. On the other hand, I’m wondering what the ethical responsibility of the state is for accommodating prisoners’ dietary needs from medical conditions, religious observation, and ethical/personal preferences eg vegetarian/veganism etc. I don’t like punishing people beyond what the court orders, and it is really disturbing when people cheer and joke about things like prison rape.
Seems to me it shouldn’t be too difficult to make a vegan “meatloaf” type food that checks all the boxes. Sort of like ordering the Kosher meal on an airplane. It’s not gonna be great but it’ll get you there.
I’d quickly be tempted to adopt a personal conviction requiring medium rare sirloin, loaded baked potatoes, whiskey/cokes and similar fare. If there’s no economy of scale, that’s not my issue. Respect my religion. It’s very specific.
Veganism is considered a protected characteristic in the UK now (defended in court) so there is precedent for this. What religion or protected ethical stance requires you to follow such a diet?
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My friend you have not seen a slaughterhouse video, have you?
The Dominion movie will change the way you look at things, especially the carbon dioxide chambers they use to suffocate pigs. Shit’s whack, man.
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He is Vegan. Irrespective of how we feel about what he did, the failure to address his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable. This would never occur if his belief was rooted in ideas of a higher being or afterlife. Not that I’m planning on going to jail anytime soon, but the thought that I would not be able to abide by that daily practice of my life would be incredibly distressing. Unless he is doing it for environmental reasons (I don’t know) he likely seeks total animal liberation, and you’re going to force feed him stolen animal secretions? Coproducts of dead baby cows, blended up chicks, and beings bred into painful bodies? The alternative is malnutrition? I would highly consider Jainism or Sikhism on this fact alone. Fuck you if you think he should be forced to go against his ethical beliefs.
That’s a very sensationalist way to phrase your point and makes you sound fairly biased in the matter.
In the law, religious belief is a protected class, but dietary choice is not. A reasonable debate could be had about if it should be protected. The prison system nor the court room is the right forum, because it needs to be decided by the legislature.
Veganism it’s not a simple dietary choice. Depending on how long the person has been vegan, a sudden switch could make them very sick.
And let’s not pretend that prisons don’t regularly disregard inmates dietary restrictions, even the medically necessary ones. It’s easy to laugh at this one because ‘haha vegan’ but it’s still atrocious to ignore any dietary restriction, let alone such a common one.
Being celiac, or having a nut allergy is a dietary restriction. Voluntarily choosing not to eat animals or animal products is not a dietary restriction.
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I’m sure he could ease into a merely vegetarian or occasionally vegetarian diet. He has all the time in the world.
Veganism is not strictly a dietary choice. Look into ethical veganism. In the UK, Ethical Vegans are a legally protected class. I understand they are not legally protected in America - this does not require me to change my position at all. I made it clear that it’s my opinion, and I presented how I would personally feel to be in his position and what I might consider just to have that ethical belief respected.
It’s a lifestyle choice based on moral ramifications. I understand that you’re not the legislative but it totally should be a part of the same protected class.
It is in most civilised nations.
his core ethical beliefs is completely unacceptable
his core ethical beliefs
core ethical beliefs
ethical
Nobody said the guy is entirely ethical ¯\(ツ)/¯
I don’t think being forced to consume death/murder is the answer to him not being ethical with people’s funds.
So you aren’t killing the plants and vegetables you eat as a vegan?
Or you perceive no ethical quandaries about murdering plants?
Or plants don’t count because they don’t have the same type of nervous system that allows us to communicate in an ethically direct fashion?
Are trees ethically more important than plants you can ethically eat, thus perceived as more ethically protected under such auspices?
And what’s your ethical stance on property development groups clear cutting small pine tree forested areas near existing residential/industrial/commercial zoned areas to create more affordable single family and multi-family homes for low income families?
If I’m more specific, what Vegans care about is conscious experience. They don’t care if something is alive or has some form of reactive biological intelligence. Its not a loose definition of killing that’s the problem, it’s the killing of conscious beings.
There is no scientific consensus as to the potential for consciousness in plants/trees. Almost nobody affirms that they are. You’ll find generally that when we discuss consciousness we describe beings with brains, or if we get in to gray areas, beings that at least have some form of nervous system. Since there is some level of brain plasticity, I tend to take the position that consciousness is an emergent property found in those with a nervous system at bare minimum, but absolutely and especially those with brains. That said, there are particular areas of brains that if compromised will show patterns of lost consciousness, but I just don’t affirm that those areas are entirely responsible.
So if plants and trees are not conscious, and they don’t experience reality, and there is no subject, then there is no one to grant rights to. If we were talking about some random planet that had no conscious life on it, a planet that for some reason could never support conscious life but could support plant life, I would have no ethical quandary with a space fairing civilization taking all of those resources and leaving the planet with not but rock.
The need for residential housing complicates the ethics of forest habitat removal but not by that much if we consider what a vegan world looks like. Roughly 37.5% of the world’s habitable land could be redistributed as that land currently is required for animal agriculture that otherwise wouldn’t be. Roughly the size of North America and Brazil combined. You’d have loads of land that could be reforested but also some land that could be reused for housing purposes. As for current reality, I think there’s a strong argument that group housing or apartment blocks would be far better for both people and the planet.
So you aren’t killing the plants and vegetables you eat as a vegan?
Friendly tip to everyone on the internet. If you find yourself writing this, please shut the fuck up.
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Irrespective of how we feel about what he did
What he has been accused of doing. He has not been proven guilty. I’m not saying he’s not guilty but until proven so, whatever happened to “innocent until proven guilty”?
Yes earlier in the thread it was very mob like. That’s me just placating I suppose. He has not been proven guilty and they’re already starving him. Doubly wrong.
There are plenty of items on a typical prison menu he can eat without eating “baby cow”, or “blended up chicks” as you put it. There is no need to live off bread and water when there are vegetables, fruit, salad, juice, rice, beans etc. I’m sure this will be pointed out to him and also the limits of what a system will accommodate - dietary or religious needs. Also, his ethics are why he is in prison in the first place so boo hoo for him.
Thats all just speculation.
It’s not speculation. You can google “federal prison menu” and see the national menu that prisons supply. Here is the 2022 menu. You will note as you read that menu that there are obviously vegan food items that SBF could eat from every single meal of every single day of the week. Breakfast? Fruit, coffee, bread, branflakes… Lunch? Beans, sweet potatoes, mash, salad, rice, baked potato… Dinner? Tacos, salads, tofu, soups, tater tots, cornbread, corn on the cob, hummus… In most cases he even has a viable main option, and even if he can’t he could always trade his main to someone else for a side of theirs. Not to mention stuff he can buy in the commissary - ramen noodles, candy, crackers, cookies etc.
So in summary, SBF is lying and trying to drum up sympathy for his own self-inflicted situation. I’m sure prison food sucks compared to what mommy makes or what his ill gotten fortunes could buy, but he is not reduced to bread and water.
And yet the federal prison menu has no relevance to “ Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn”
The MDC is administered by the federal bureau of prisons and plainly states in its own literature that it offers the nationalised standard menu. So me pointing you at the link to the nationalised standard menu couldn’t be more relevant. It’s literally what they have to eat in this place and other federal facilities.
SBF is in prison and has been relieved of his freedom.
The penal system must offer him a diet that satisfies his daily nutritional requirements because he is not free to do so on his own.
The state is not required to support his “ethical beliefs.”
Can the state require you to eat the body or bodily fluids of someone you affirm has rights to bodily autonomy, someone we know to be wholly innocent because they lack agency?
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No.
They’re required to make the offer. I believe the prison where he’s incarcerated has even offered him the option of vegetarian meals to complement his PB sandwiches.
I think that’s a very generous offer that’s he’s used his agency to reject because he’s a fool.
has even offered him the option of vegetarian meals
That doesn’t necessarily work at all. Vegans don’t eat food that contain or are prepared with any dairy or egg product. It’s very likely all of their vegetarian meals are not Vegan accessible.
Sounds like he will continue to enjoy peanut butter then :)
In case it wasn’t clear, you’re not corresponding with someone who cares if SBF is allowed to eat a vegan diet in prison.
It’s the precedent set for prisoners in general that you should have a problem with. He just so happens to be the one in the public eye that is affected right now. Forcing him to either go against his beliefs or be nutritionally deficient is not okay. Your feelings about SBF are not at issue. We can end this chain on that note.
Currently only religious beliefs are supported by the prison industry. If he couldn’t eat kosher, for example, I would agree that that’s a problem.
What if he was pescaterian? Or on a Keto diet? It’s this zone that I don’t think the state needs to entertain. SBF happens to be vegan and vegan is in the region in my mind.
I guess my question is: Is there a limit to the extent which the state should go to satisfy your dietary preferences?
Just give the guy vegan food ffs. Fucking Americans are so obsessed with making life as shitty as possible for anyone any chance they get.
For anyone? Ever heard of this guy?
Yes, I have, he’s a horrible person, but treating him poorly will not undoe what he’s done. And this goes far beyond this one person. The entire us “”“justice”“” system is based around this.
He should be forced to eat the organs and flesh of animals, nothing green whatsoever, only flesh until the end of his days. He’s a monster so he should eat what they eat and not pretend he’s a fucking saint.
Lmao, okay edgelord.
They are required in most civilised nations. You’re just too used to America’s punishment focused prison system, look at the prisons in Scandinavian nations and how they treat their prisoners.
I don’t think SBF needs rehabilitation or whatever the europeans call it. He needs a prison cell, 3 peanut butter sandwiches, and an hour of rec time… everyday… for twenty years.
He didn’t murder it rape anyone did he?
He robbed people of their savings. Imagine losing your retirement?
rehabilitation or whatever the europeans call it
My god dude you’re like a walking parody. Please stop giving the US a bad name.
I have no shame in the believing prison can be used as a punishment. Shouldn’t be the only thing it’s used for, but it’s what this fella needs.
Oh for sure, punishment is historically a super effective solution after all.
Huh? Recidivism? What’s that?
If SBF would reoffend I’d gladly pay the taxes to give him another twenty years of sandwiches. I don’t care about healing this man.
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Hate the guy, pretty much, but tbh if it’s true this isn’t okay.
No what’s not okay is that they aren’t forcing him it eat meat against his will. This is prison, not a vacation, he needs to be punished not catered to.
I have a feeling the only reason this guy is facing consequences is because he defrauded other rich people.
Yep. He fucked with the money.
Anytime a big corp gets caught fucking with poor people worse they get is a slap on the wrist fine maybe 10 of what they profited and maybe 1-2 years max in prison time for a few fall guys.
Wonder how chewed this dude is about to be.
I don’t believe his choices are THAT limited. Most prisons will have a self-service line with a choice of boiled veg, rice, beans, potatoes, pasta, fruit, grits, oats. Also, and just generally, boo hoo for him. Funny how his ethics extend to what he eats, but not who he steals from.
I have no idea what you are talking about. I was arrested when I was protesting in El Paso. They just brought trays of slop to us in our cells three times a day. It looked close to an '80s elementary school lunch but slightly lower quality. It really wasn’t reasonable. I was found not guilty because Americans are supposed to be able to protest. The FBI felt otherwise when they cut off part of the tape proving my innocence but got caught doing so without consequence.
Federal institutions have a national menu that they’re meant to provide. I’ve linked to it elsewhere and if inmates don’t receive it then there are avenues to complain through. And to be clear I’m sure even in the best of circumstances the food still sucks, but there is a menu and there is choice. It is also VERY clearly spelt out in the MDC Brooklyn inmate’s handbook on page 13 what the food is and an inmate’s options regarding it and any religious / dietician exemptions.
IMO this is SBF being a precious entitled asshole in prison thinking he’s above the conditions that everyone else in there is subject to. “Oh look at poor me I have to eat bread water and peanut butter”. Meanwhile reality says he’s lying. This is merely the latest incident of him attempting to control the narrative. He can’t tamper with witness so he’s holding a pity party and we’re supposed to care.
Yeah, local jails are bad, and juvenile facilities are even worse. Been in both (but luckily not a federal facility).
The entire criminal justice system in the U.S. is evil. It’s all about money and retributive “justice” to get votes/campaign money. It serves no purpose otherwise, because it sure as hell ain’t built to rehabilitate people. Any attention to the wrongs of the system is welcome, IMO.
Also bread and water is a vegan diet, lol
We never get news articles on how the common prisoner views the food. Fuck this billionaire thief and fuck NBC news.
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what is it with fraudsters and weird hair
Aliens.
what’s weird about letting your curly hair grow out regularly, it’s one of the regular styles of the world I thought
My guess is mental illness
The only reason this is being talked about is because he was a billionaire. Boo hoo poor guy stole 7billion Dollars, and now can’t have the lifestyle he was used to
It’s funny how we want to be treated as human beings but when it’s about someone we perceive as “the enemy” human rights be damned. “We” should not be treated unfairly, but “they” deserve whatever they get.
Yup, people treat criminals like literal monsters so they don’t have to face uncomfortable moral dilemmas. It’s very black and white, and easy.
It’s also incredibly depressing, and goes to show how many people lack basic empathy.
I would prefer if everyone is treated equal. But it is clearly shown that rich people get special treatment. If you can let bring everyone up, bring the special people down
Is it accurate to call him a former billionaire? My understanding is that he essentially embezzled ~$50 billion investor money and never truly owned it himself. Didn’t he take a ~$1 billion “loan” from the company for example?
I think it’s more accurate to say “he had signature authority over accounts with billions in them” not “he was a billionaire” but idk…
Crimes aside, punishment should not include limiting a person’s diet or basic food options. No one’s asking for gourmet in prisons, but basic fruits and vegetables should be the baseline.
Read the article. The jail can provide vegetarian, but not vegan.
Jail isn’t fun.
Seems reasonable imo
Jail should accommodate a vegan diet, but it also seems like are to some extent. PB sandwiches are food. As long as he can cobble together a nutritionally complete diet, it isn’t cruel to have boring meals. Obviously JUST peanut butter sandwiches won’t do it but I have to think they have potatoes, beans, rice on the menu too, stuff like that.
Jail should accommodate a vegan diet
I think that should go without saying, and the real question is why isn’t it the default? Why are we bothering to give prisoners (inherently relatively expensive/less sustainable) meat or dairy to begin with?
Because meat isn’t taxes properly so that having a decent meat based diet is cheaper than having a decent plant based one
Sure there are a lot of cheap vegan meals, too, but some of them are harder and/or take longer to prepare than cheap meat-based food
I’d guess the dairy/meat lobby would complain a lot of they didn’t have people forced to eat their stuff in prison
Id guess it’s a very nice baseline of product-sales
Yeah, I object to that as well. It may not be easy having empathy for a billionaire vegetarian but ….
When my kids were little, they took tours to meet first responders and see the facilities and equipment. However when police got to the hold facilities, they decided it was a “scared straight” opportunity. Part of their standard procedure was to
stealmake you pay to buy youdisgusting greasy swilltheir choice ofkids mealtheir quantity at the nearest fast food place. You have no choice, no reasonably healthy options, no allowance for anyone not used to all that grease, and you have to pay for it. I guess spending the day half starving while sitting on the toilet is “justified” for people who haven’t even had a chance to face charges yet.…. Oh and they were practically gleeful to point out that after a certain time Friday afternoon, the magistrate wouldn’t respond until the next week, so you would be stuck.
…. Oh and they were practically gleeful to point out that after a certain time Friday afternoon, the magistrate wouldn’t respond until the next week,
I had that happen to me personally when I was arrested on a traffic charge (driving on a suspended license that I didn’t know had been suspended).
They should get him those vegan meals the airlines have in economy class. That would work, no? Vegan enough for him to eat, but not enjoy.
Absolutely the Best solution
So there IS a vegan option.
Bread and water.
