I spent half that time in Critical Care (much of that on a ventilator, a small amount sedated), and most of the rest in a specialist neuro-rehab unit. I would have died otherwise.
Fortunately it cost me nothing - Thank Bevan for the NHS - but if I were in the US I imagine I would be financially crippled!
The average cost of a hospital stay in a U.S. hospital is about $3,000 per day, but it varies significantly by location. So long stays like yours might cost between $250,000 and $500,000.
If your insurance covers it (and about 92% of Americans have health insurance), you’d be looking at your annual out of pocket max, which the law caps at $18,000 for family plans or $9,000 for individual plans, but which most people on employer sponsored plans (around 60% of Americans) have out of pocket maxes around $4,000 to $5,000. Source
So for most Americans, your hospital stay would’ve probably cost the individual patient about $5,000. Insurance would’ve paid another $350,000.
But for some Americans, they’d be looking at a $360,000 bill and then would just file bankruptcy, start over with close to a net worth of zero, at least for non-exempt assets (people generally get to keep their homes, cars, and retirement accounts in bankruptcy so it won’t actually be starting from zero if you’re well into a middle age in the middle class).
Or worse, the hospital would realize they’re not getting paid, and then would find a reason to kick you out as soon as you’re stabilized. They have to keep you alive even when you can’t pay, but don’t have to treat you beyond that for free.
Agree 100% except one thing to be a little picky, the insurance doesn’t pay the full 350k like ever, that’s the list price they have negotiated prices with the hospital that differ, and if your ask the hospital bursar/collections you can get a cash price that’s usual less as well.
And if you do have insurance and get a bill over a few thousand, there are pretty good odds insurance will deny paying for it and drag you through many levels of confusing and auto-denied appeals over the course of 6+ months! Even if your procedure is clearly covered in your summary plan description or required by law.
And this is why Brian Thompson got what was coming to him.
Excellent answer
With the recent changes to the medical insurance landscape in America, and thousands upon thousands of people losing their jobs due to various factors, your 90% figure is pretty generous. Add in the fact that most insurance is tied directly into employment, Americans have much less options than the rest of the free world, unless you are filthy rich.
do you loose your house if you file bankruptcy?
generally, no
You would have lost your job and likely be on medicaid and disability and it would be very unclear if you have or lost your house and possessions but keeping hold of them moving forward would be almost impossible unless you could find a new job which is also highly unlikely.
Also, at some point you couldn’t afford care anymore. So you would have stopped treatment and died.
maybe. the us is odd in that if you literally cannot walk out on your own they usually keep you while the bills rack up.
Hm, would you though. There is short and long term disability. Some states require some amount of it. And salary type jobs often include more of it. You may get replaced after a bit, but you technically would still be employed until after. That might mean you would have to pay the insurance premiums out of pocket, but assuming you could afford to, that would be well worth it.
Not saying that is how it “should” be though. Just that there is probably more nuance.
Im talking about the concept of insurance in general. Im just comparing it. You pay more to handle and event that you can’t economically handle at the time. Like losing your house to a fire. Im just saying the value is worth the cost much like generally these things are.
If you spent 4 months in a U.S. hospital and didn’t die, you would spend the rest of your life wishing you did.
All the screwed. And now as of this month medical debt will be part of your credit reports, so good luck on getting a home loan or job
Why on earth would debt effect getting a job? My employer doesn’t know my credit rating.
Mortgage and loans I understand but not the job bit.
Credit history is often included in US background checks
That’s bonkers. My employer has No reason to know my credit rating and unless I’m working in some kind of ‘protected’ industry not sure why I would require a background check.
They changed the law so medical debt can go on your credit score.
I get that. I don’t get why my employer should be aware of it though.
I’m speculating here, and don’t think for a second I’m in favour of this, but probably so your employer knows how desperate you are for a job and therefore how much they can push you.
Or how likely you are to steal money, especially in a role with access to cash or bank accounts.
Your first stop would be a bankruptcy lawyer.
if you can afford one lol.
This is too hard to answer because of the number of variables at play like, do you have insurance, does your condition/issue qualify you for Medicare, does your job offer disability leave, are you FMLA eligible, do you meet requirements for SSA disability etc.
Anecdotally, in 2017 I spent two non-consecutive months in the hospital. The first visit I came in through the ER, ended up in the ICU intubated and worked my way through each section as I got better.
My second stay I skipped the ICU but had a transplant halfway through. I also was on dialysis for the ~6 months in between.
Dialysis was billed at $7k a visit, roughly $500k in total. The transplant surgery alone was ~$750k. The hospital stays came to about $5k a day on average for roughly $300k in total.
So straight billed amount I was somewhere in the $1.5-$1.7 million range.
Jesus fuck. I hope you are doing better now. Did any of the bills go away or you just paying on in it forever?
I am doing better though it’s looking like I’ll need another transplant at some point.
Fortunately, I had good insurance through work and because I ended up in renal failure that makes you automatically eligible for Medicare (one good thing Nixon did). Also, the billed amount gets discounted based on whatever deal your particular insurance has with the provider, so billed amount ≠ paid amount. Unless you’re uninsured.
I did ended up going through bankruptcy anyway but that had more to do with my choices and lifestyle leading up to all of this. It did wipe out any portion of that bill that would have been my responsibility though
How were you living before to become bankrupt?
As an alcoholic whose life was barely under control.
The long story short version is that, over 10ish years I drank myself almost to death, ended up hospitalized with liver and kidney failure, got discharged and went through treatment and the ended back in the hospital in pretty serious need (so they told me) of a transplant.
Fortunately for me I got listed and was transplanted 5 days later. After that I realized I was given a second chance most people don’t get and worked to turn my life around.
I’m now 8 years sober, good credit, married with a house, 2 dogs, 2 cats and I wake up every day grateful to have this extra time.
you will also be on immunosuppresants long term, because organ transplants too. only some of those medicines are probably cheap.
Yes, and they are not cheap. I typically hit my insurance deductible by the end of February each year.
I’m the kind of person insurance companies hate because I’m expensive and they can’t deny most of my care.
the tacrolimus is tablet is cheap, you’re probably taking something like mycophenolate, or a biologic.
Depends.
My dad went in the hospital for like probably 3 months, and afiak, their small bussiness is still running. They have insurance.
For everyone else who don’t have insurance and don’t have any assets, just refuse to pay the bills, like what are they gonna do? Confiscate your organs? (Inb4 they pass the “USA Repossess Organs Act”)
Don’t give them ideas, they’re already trying to control women and negate body autonomy.
You probably would have been sent home much earlier
With opium
And a $100,000 bill.
So cheap!
More likely you just would not have been kept in hospital four months here. Somehow we have the combination of highest cost and also cost-cutting schemes.
To answer your question - $18,000 I guess, if I got lucky and the insurance worked correctly. That’s the alleged max out of pocket for the insurance I pay for at work.
According to https://nchstats.com/average-cost-of-hospital-stays-in-us/ the average cost for inpatient care in the United States is 3,025 dollars.
4 months of 30 days multiplied by 3,025 is equal to 363,000 dollars without insurance.
That is an entirely believable number to me.
That is bankruptcy, pure and simple. There’s no way you’d financially recover from a four month stint in the hospital.
People have literally unalived themselves here over hospital bills like that.
Thank God you weren’t in a shit hole country, like the US.
This is not YouTube, don’t make it so. You can -and in my opinion, should- say suicide, kill, etc.
Dont say unalived. Say “suicideded” or killed themselfs. Stop censoring yourself
So much of this
I don’t understand the need to find alternative words for words we already have. What, in 20 years we need to find alternative words again because the next generation feels insulted by the words this generation came up with?
Just use the words. Suicide. It is what it is. Its ugly, it’s sad, it shouldn’t be needed, but here we are. Don’t make it more palatable by censoring yourself
I like “met their end credits”
I don’t think suicide really needs a cutsie nickname
I think you’ve hit perfectly why I don’t like the “unalive” and related euphemisms for death. Death, especially violent death, is a big fucking deal, and trying to obscure that impact behind vague or even cutesy words, makes it seem mundane or routine and accessible.
As someone who just last week attended a wake for the suicide of an 11 year old who lived two houses down from us and was one of my child’s friends :thank you for saying that.
Crazy that suicide even crosses the mind of an 11 year old, let alone them actually going through with it.
This is a result of communication being penned in by social media rules. We largely can’t even discuss this serious topic on an open level so unfortunately cutesy nicknames are required when talking about serious issues these days.
America needs to be thrown into a volcano
Or get insurance and then the bill is significantly smaller. The much smaller amount can be put on a payment plan if needed or even haggled down to something you can pay.
That depends.
Are you wealthy? If yes, you’re fine. If no, you’re fucked.
Are you a veteran? Same answers.
Are you poor? You probably died in the waiting room.
Are you a veteran? Same answers.
Ha. Hahaha. Yeah. No. Not necessarily.
Source: knew way too many vets with awful, untreated ailments from my time in US healthcare.
I have heard that VA hospitals are better in some places. I really have had better care from the VA than from public health care.
Most people don’t know but you can get the best of both. You can push for what called “community care” through the VA. If the VA admits there isnt a VA doctor close enough to you, they will send you to a private doctor of your choosing and pay for the whole thing.
I was able to get back surgery by the best doctor in the region this way. I refused to work with the VA doctor due to a bad appointment. I waited weeks to see this doctor and he spent 5 minutes looking at my chart to say I was too young to be helped. Could’ve just told me over the phone. Went back to my primary and complained and they signed me up for community care since they were the only other in the area.
Yes, I’ve tried community care.
I actually got worse care 9/10 times. The wait times are sometimes longer to get established as a patient in the public sector.
Haven’t seen anyone mention maximums. Sometimes insurance plans will straight up stop covering you after a certain price. Like, for the rest of your life. Imagine running up a cancer treatment bill in your teenage years and being cut off until you either die or somehow live long enough to get a job with different insurance.
Holy fucking shit just burn the whole industry to the ground at this point.
I’m not from the US, but I’ve heard someone from there explain the system.
When you go to hospital, and get a bill of $250.000 your insurance company will cover let say $50.000. You will get a bill for $1.200 and the rest will be declared by the hospital to their insurance company as damages.
It’s super weird, I still don’t get it but apparently this is how it works in most cases, or as I’m told.
Honestly, it would depend on what kind of insurance you have in the US. Each employer has a different set of plans.
No insurance? Absolutely screwed. With insurance?
End of 2018 I had a heart attack and open heart surgery with really good insurance.
Emergency Room - $150
8 days in the hospital + open heart surgery from the head of the cardiac department - $100
Drugs and all the oxygen I could carry - $100Roll forward to January 2019… my company has been bought by a giant company. Health insurance changes. I lose my existing hospital and all my doctors and have to start over in a new system.
7 days in the hospital draining fluid from congestive heart failure - $6,500 - the annual out of pocket maximum for that insurance.
Good news though, hitting the out of pocket maximum on Jan 15 meant all my other medical care the rest of the year was covered at 100%.
Yeah, I can’t imagine that, $6500 would RUIN me, like I legitimately would not be able to pay it
Most of the time you can set up a payment plan but that’s still brutal
Fortunately (?) the reason for the insurance change was my company was acquired by a giant company. Bye bye signing bonus…
alot of doctors are also being bought up by equity firms too, which adds another layer of cost.
Unless you got a couple of million bucks in your bank account…. Super fucked
Or have good insurance.
Even then how whats your deductible or your out of pocket cost before insurance kicks in and then your doctor will have to prove you needed it they might stick you with a bill anyway and 4 months in IC will likely be $5009-15,000 per day maybe more depending on any surgical procedures. The land of the free run by the POTUS- Pedo of the United states, what a great time to be dying
