“I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.”
To be fair, “support” isn’t the exact word used, but “preserve, protect, and defend” is pretty unequivocal
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the only one making a semantical argument, is Trump and his lawyers.
The problem is that the current Supreme Court clearly would support throwing that out, and they LOVE semantics like that to justify clearly bullshit decisions.
They also like using history to support their decisions. If it can be shown that the presidential oath is intended to go beyond “support” I would see the court being persuaded that “support” is implied by “protect, preserve, and defend”. It depends on whether the textualists or the pseudo-historians win the day.
The five conservative “justices” are conservatives first and “justices” second. They will always rule however the standard, bigoted, Fox-News-loving white nationalist will rule. They do this by using wordplay and bad-faith semantics.
Every word uttered by a conservative is either deception or manipulation. Every word.
Exactly. It’s a massive stretch to think there’s a false equivalency between “support” and “preserve, protect, and defend”.
But of course…this is Trump here. He’s willing to bend himself into a pretzel if it means he can avoid responsibility for anything bad.
You can preserve, protect, and defend something you don’t support. Debate 101 at even a high school level is learning how to argue the side of an argument that you don’t support.
So while in office, he preserved/protected/defended something he didn’t support. He then lead some form of rebellion against it, causing him to be in violation of the spirit of the 14th but not the letter as it’s written, so he should still be qualified to serve.
The Supreme Court would love this wordplay, except, if they actually accept it, they’re not just invalidating the spirit of the 14th, but undermining it completely as it would never ever ever be relevant to anyone, ever again. And wouldn’t that also be against their oaths to uphold the constitution?
So most likely Trump will be eligible for re-election because I have no doubt that if they can get away with the Citizens United ruling, they can and will do whatever the hell they want.
Did he really preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution on January 6th though? (Spoiler alert: he didn’t). Perhaps that is the better question here than this semantics argument.
I think you can make an argument that if you preserve and protect something, you’re supporting it.
But the real issue, to me, is that no one takes an oath specifically to “support” the constitution. If the presidential oath isn’t an example of supporting it, then Article Ii makes no sense at all - why would it even be there?
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
Yes we do.
But he is just playing a game. Semantics.
But the real issue, to me, is that no one takes an oath specifically to “support” the constitution. If the presidential oath isn’t an example of supporting it, then Article Ii makes no sense at all - why would it even be there?
I’m sure the righter part of the SC will find a reason :|
Still not going to acknowledge you are wrong?
Sure, I had no clue that the military oath included “support.”
Would be a stretch to say that article II of the Constitution was only intended to apply to the military.
Here is what you said with confidence:
“But the real issue, to me, is that no one takes an oath specifically to “support” the constitution. “
Then you ignored several people who pointed out that you were wrong.
Then you responded that you had no clue.
Why are you spouting off with zero knowledge?
Are you even American?
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I’ve taken a couple oaths to the US government…
I dont remember any of them saying “support the constitution”
So by their logic, this effects no one.
The text of the section they are challenging (emphasis added):
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may, by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.
It’s an exceptionally stupid argument, even for Trump. Obviously “preserve, protect, and defend” are all forms of support, so this challenge is quite possibly the stupidest legal argument they’ve made so far (which is an extremely high bar). But I suppose they don’t think they can realistically claim that he didnt engage in insurrection.
Hold up, if that’s the crux of his argument, does that mean that his argument is
“I can’t be barred from running because I never took an oath to support the constitution. Therefore my inciting insurrection is not covered by this clause. But I totally incited rebellion.”?
“I crossed my fingers when I took the oath of office so it didn’t count. Also, I’m rubber and you’re glue. Whatever 14th Amendment you throw bounces off of me and sticks to you!”
-Trump’s next legal arguments…
Unfortunately, I think it is “while I do not admit to starting a rebellion, whether I did or not is immaterial because ‘preserve, protect, and defend’ definitely doesn’t include ‘support’”
Yes, that’s what they’re arguing.
He only needs to convince 5 Supreme Court justices.
Wow that’s stupid. I’m sure this comes up all the time with wording of other laws and I’m sure judges are used to eviscerating it. Now as long as we don’t get stupid judges…
Why does this remind me of some sovereign citizen bullshit?
I do not stand under.
While i hate Trump and don’t think he has a leg I can see some give in this argument. Just in the idea that I don’t think a president should have to support the entirety of the US constitution. I think a representative of the US government can disagree with aspects of the constitution but still preserve, protect, and defend it.
It’s not a very strong argument but there is something to be said.
I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States.
From all enemies, foreign and domestic.
“For the ‘right’ people”
-D. J. D. (In his head)
Edit: “Not the poors, the stupid losers”
Again, D. J. D. (Out loud when talking about the military or working people)
I hope he has more success arguing semantics with the prison gang leaders.
Even if he went to prison, he’s not going to be hanging out with gang members of any kind, except for prison guards.
If only he had murdered a bunch of small children instead then Republicans might have cared about the Constitution part.
I think you mean fetuses. Republicans don’t care about children after they’re outside of a uterus.
What the shit is going on with your username?
This is a work of fiction; any resemblance to the names of actual substances, whether real or fantastic, is purely coincidental.
Not if he did it with a gun. Or they were already born. That’s where they draw the line.
They were already born they’re politically useless now.
They’d call them thugs in the press and then argue the definition of “children”
Everything he did just became the new norm for the GOP to defend. If he had done even worse, it wouldn’t have made him cross a line with the GOP, it just would have normalized even worse actions.
Give him time.
His only duty is to Putin, and himself.
In that order.
The insanity of this mf
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Look at that fucking baboon. Look at that orange shit on his face. It’s gonna be hilarious to see this traitor cunt without his makeup. His pallid countenance contrasting sharply with his prison jumpsuit.
Not just without his makeup… Also without his hair piece, Adderall, weird combover, weird oversized suit to hide his diapers, ridiculous long tie, girdle, Adderall, spanx, shoes with high heels and lifts inside, Adderall, teleprompter, ozempic, carefully prescribed camera angles to not show his gut/baldspot/chin vulva, Adderall, doctor to lie about his weight/health and his regular mcfishy deluxe diet.
And he also won’t have anymore Adderall.
I can’t wait until he won’t have anymore Adderall™
Don’t insult baboons like that.
And 50% of Americans approve! Bravo!
It’s around 32-34% of registered voters. We have a real voter suppression issue here in the states that has been caused, and exacerbated by one of the only two parties we are allowed to have, unless about 80% of the voters decide to change the system.
Nowhere near that many.
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must’ve ran out of spaghetti to throw at the wall, and this is what is left.
Well, ya know who does have a duty to support the constitution? Literally everyone in the military.
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God. - Oath of Enlistment
I ___, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God. - Oath of Commissioned Officers
Notice that they both specify “all enemies, foreign and domestic”.
Every service member that’s had the opportunity to engage Trump the same way they do any other enemy to US, and chosen not to do so, has violated their oath.
There’s about a dozen layers of nuance that need to be addressed before we advocate for all million or so military members to rise up against presidents (or congressional representatives, or judiciaries, or…)
The first of which is the definition of “enemy.”
It’s a huge fucking stretch to expect individual soldiers to be able to declare who is or is not an enemy when you’re not under imminent danger or protecting any critical assets. Supervising officers largely do not make that decision, as they’re focused on a specific near-term tasking set. Unit commanders largely do not make that decision, as they’re focused on meshing tactical warfare requirements with the administrative and logistical burdens needed for a competent force. Even combatant commanders largely do not make that decision, as they fight for resources and posture their chess pieces to be able to respond in SHTF situations. The same way we do not expect US Naval ships facing harassment from Iranian rocket boats on a daily basis to decide that “today’s the day” and start a war with Iran is how important this distinction is and why it’s not an easy ask.
The military needs an actual order, coming from some combination of the Secretary of Defense and the National Security Council in order to define enemies and engage in combat. Congress (should) officially declare enemies of the United States. There is some current debate on if the US needs to officially declare “enemies” in order to add gravity to some charges like treason, but my understanding is that China is no more an enemy of the US than Russia is. Another way of saying that is the US might not be friendly towards some, but is not willing to declare those countries as explicit enemies. It’s hard to perform effective diplomacy with another entity if you’ve already announced that you cannot coexist peacefully.
Thus, expecting the military to rise up against a president is expecting them to jump every level in the chain of command and take on the impossible decision of deciding what’s in the United States’ best interest themselves. I think that’s generally considered a shitty take.
Agreed, with literally everything you said. The ‘shoulds’ and expectations for our military as a whole don’t really give way to what the oaths imply; but focusing specifically on the oaths, I stand by my earlier comment.
I was active duty enlisted when Trump took office, and his traitorous behavior became more glaring to me (and, y’know, the rest of the world) every time he opened his mouth. Found myself thinking about the oath a lot, in that for enlisted, Trump represented a paradox. Officially or not, he made himself a domestic threat to the constitution - the ONLY threat addressed specifically by the oath I had taken; but in the very next line, we swore to obey the orders of… the domestic threat to the constitution.
More of a thought experiment than anything else - I was a medic, that hypothetical was never going to be put to test for me lol.
But then I’d see footage of Trump hobbling past some Marine to descend a stair case or something, and I’d look at that Marine just standing there as he passed, and think “You fucking coward.”
Not to say I’d have the balls to do any different - I wouldn’t be too keen on getting shot by secret service, or spending the rest of my life in prison either; but still, failing to act in that situation is a violation of the oath.
For what it’s worth, joining the military and serving contributes more to society than you probably think. The fact that you and your peers are able to have these discussions while performing your duties speaks volumes to how much the US military has improved over generations past. I have no doubts that any blatantly unlawful or unconstitutional orders coming down from the president wouldn’t be met with pushback.
Yeah, people always talk about civil war 2.0 situations like “you think your six shooter is going to do shit against an air strike?!” like it would just unilaterally be the military + ‘loyalists’ vs the odd liberal that got lost one day and wandered into a gun store.
The military does lean red, but overall we’re varied like any other slice of society. It’s not going to be some “execute order 66!” situation with a bunch of stormtroopers just suddenly gunning down the people they work for/with.
Even in basic training they put a lot of emphasis on following LEGAL orders: had a class segment on the Nuremberg trials; showcased Hugh Thompson Jr. as a positive example of what to do when faced with illegal situations; shit like that. Contrary to popular media, the military does NOT want its troops to be a bunch of mindless drones.
It’s also an appealing career field to violent sociopaths who struggle with things like obtaining a GED, so, y’know… grain of salt. Oh whoops, I already said it leans red - pardon the redundancy.
It is not only the military who takes the oath to support the Constitution and defend it against all enemies. It’s generally most Federal employees. I took the oath as a requirement for one of my former jobs too and I’m not military. I was proud to take that oath and I still uphold it for life.
Trump screeching the quiet part out loud
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This is one of the few things Trump actually excels at. Every time you think he’s gone as low as he could possibly go, he somehow finds a way to sink even lower.
It would be impressive if it weren’t so dangerous.
The US Constitution and Donald Trump are mutual enemies.
He says a lot of things.
He has the best words.
Bigly Covfefe!
