“Israel has a right to self-defence, but it has to be done within international law … cutting water, cutting electricity, cutting food to a mass of civilian people is against international law,” said EU foreign policy chief Josep Borrell on Tuesday (10 October).
He repeated the view more than once in his press briefing. “The Palestinian people are also suffering,” he added.
An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind. This cycle of violence and repression needs to stop.
That’s the point. The game is to be the last man standing with at least partial vision.
Removed by mod
The Final Solution, eh?
they really could have just left them alone. It would have been exactly the same result with the Palestinians blaming those in Palestine for their issues.
instead they meddle and build illegal settlements.
There’s another possibility.
Lebanon gets involved. Then Iran. Then the US. Then Iraq. Then Afghanistan. Then Russia. On and on until it’s WW3
But no one wants to talk about that
If the EU and the US have managed to avoid getting directly involved in Ukraine Vs Russia and starting WW3 that way, there is no way this conflict will start anything that big.
Yes I’m sure we need to care about great power Afghanistan “getting involved” in Gaza. We should also be wary of Mongolia, and probably Lesotho as well.
Russia/Iran/US/EU are all already “involved” in with Israel. US/EU/Israel want to culturally genocide palestine and Russia/Iran want to hurt the US/EU. This isn’t ww3, and if push comes to shove none of the major players are going to start ww3 over Israel or Palestine.
Nobody talks about it, because it’s not realistic. This will be treated as another proxy war, with countries providing aid, but not actively fighting.
The US and Russia are already involved. Russia likely started this mess, and US is already sending munitions to its ally.
What’s unlikely about Hezbollah getting involved? Or Iran? Or the Taliban?
It can easily inflame into a massive regional war, and there go oil prices. With oil prices go food prices. With both, inflation slips out of control. Now there’s fuel shortages and hunger everywhere, heightening tensions.
This is a powder keg. Wake up
Found the Zionist
It is a pretty clown face move to attach those that supply your water, electricity and fuel.
Hamas can surrender and they’ll get water immediately. I don’t see why Israel has to give them anything while their soldiers get killed during the takeover
Have they considered not trying to take over land that isn’t theirs?
The children living in Gaza don’t have that option. Hopefully evacuation corridors are operational.
Few people are worried about hamas. The concern is for the women and children. The people with no say in any of this. It’s not a crime to refuse to resupply an enemy, it is a crime to starve innocent people.
Same rhetoric as German occupiers claiming that they would not execute civilian hostages as long as Resistance fighters would give themselves up. Sorry for the Goldwyn point but you made it a low hanging fruit.
Eye for an eye is a misunderstood quote.
It actually means tolerance.
It means you can only take what was taken from you.
The Middle East has always had an issue with being barbaric. It was intent to mellow it out.
Good luck stopping a millennia old feud
Not a millenia old feud. A one-centure-GB-US-Iran engeneered old feud.
Heard a lot of shit Iran’s supposed to be involved with in the region, but it’s the first time I hear them being accused of having engineered the Israel -Palestine conflict. How do you figure that? I would’ve understood accusing France for their involvement in sykes-picot, or even the Turks since the Ottomans administered the region in early 20th century. But Iran started supporting the Palestinians after the 1979 revolution, before that the Shah very much supported Israel. So I have a hard time seeing how they could be blamed for engineering the conflict.
Haven’t read a history book I take it, if you think the fight over Palestine is a new thing. I guess you’ve also never heard of the Crusades
Haven’t read a history book I take it
lol right back atcha chief.
Crusades
lol
You are aware that the region known as Palestine and the Arab people existed before 1948 right?
What side were the Jews on in the crusades?
The UN and EU consider lots of things Israel does illegal. We just don’t do anything about it and they don’t care.
This is true. But it is also because there isn’t a much better alternative.
The Palestinians don’t have a Nelson Mandela, MLK or Mahatma Gandhi kind of person that the western world can rally around and support.
Like, I’m sitting here at home in Europe, thoroughly disapproving of Israel, while being also fully disgusted by what Hamas did.
And I understand why Palestinians fight. I can understand that they can’t be fully pacifist and that they don’t have the capability to wage a normal war, so they result to asymmetric warfare.
But if they had just cleanly killed or kidnapped the adults and spared the children, that would have been the minimum to not fully alienate a lot of people who are sympathetic to their cause.
I guess Yasser Arafat was the best they had and it only went downhill after that.
The problem I have with the “both sides” argument is while I agree we should not approve of Hamas’ actions, Israel routinely murders civilians without consequence. We tut and tsk but we still send them basically unlimited aid and approval.
Yes both sides behave badly but one side does so with our explicit support.
Don’t forget how Israel sells world-class spyware to despots and dictators, who use it to terrorise journalists and political opponents.
There’s a bit of a moral difference though. When you say ‘routinely murders civilians’, in a lot of cases we’re talking about protestors throwing rocks or molotovs at police or soldiers. Or when Hamas is firing missiles from a schoolyard or the roof of a hospital. Where do you draw the line where police/army/country has the right to defend themselves? Of course it creates a tense situation and Israel is going to close ranks around those who are far too trigger happy.
But there’s still a huge difference with Hamas’ stated and demonstrated goal to kill off all jews. Israel is trying to bully the muslims so that they would emigrate, but they’re not killing civilians to wipe them out (if that were the case they would be failing).
As a comparison Israel is acting more like Morocco colonising the Western Sahara and Hamas is acting like Europeans genociding the Native Americans
IDF soldiers have murdered plenty of children. It is routine and I don’t care if they are protesting, they are entitled to protest oppression.
Hamas are disgusting and Israel are cunts but Hamas is because of what Israel does.
Well if you casually leave out that part it becomes a lie by omission. And there’s a reason you have to use this lie both to yourself and to others. It has a whole different ring to it when you say “IDF regularly shoot teenagers throwing molotov cocktails in protest” instead of “routinely murdering children”.
Siblings Ali and Mayar ed-Din, who were killed in an IDF airstrike on May 9, 2023
Damn teenagers get younger with every cull.
Mohammed Tamimi is the youngest Palestinian killed in the conflict this year (June 2023)
Shot in the head by Israeli forces.
He was 2.
Israel made those men kill hundreds of people at a concert. They had no other choice. Brave protestors. Do you even listen to yourself?
Yeah they absolutely did, by teaching the people that shit was normal by doing it to them for generations. Murdering civilians who are celebrating is just how they say hi, so they shouldn’t be surprised pikachu face when they do it right back to them.
deleted by creator
We (the EU at least) also send a lot of aid to Palestinians.
Israel should be sanctioned and decolonized like South Africa was.
And I, for one, believe that that would have happened a long time ago if the Palestinians had followed the Nelson Mandela and Mahatma Gandhi playbook.
Perhaps I am wrong. Like the rest of the world, I also don’t have the solution for this quagmire.
The US sends aid to palestine as well, just nowhere near as much as we do to israel.
And there isn’t a good solution. No matter what, everybody will be mad. Mad and not violent would be nice, though.
Development aid, not weapons as the west supplies to Israel. But otherwise you’re right. The whole region should be disarmed.
The only way to disarm “the whole region” would be to basically level all of it and make it totally uninhabitable.
That thought also crossed my mind.
Has anyone ever heard of BDS?!?
Thing also is that those people were also hated during thier time and also called terrorists. There’s no good options for a leader sadly.
But Hamas does very textbook terrorist things, seems to me like they are actually terrorists.
As opposed to the resistants (including many Jews) during WW2 who were literally called terrorists by Nazis ?
I was alive when Nelson Mandela was active, and he wasn’t called a terrorist in the west.
He was revered as a hero by many in the West, just like Navalny is revered today.
The West called Mandela a terrorist until he won and they killed MLK
So
The West being one single hive mind like the bugs in Starship Troopers
Oh sure, there is some factions within the West, but on the whole they agree on the big stuff. It’s why they’re all allied with eachother in the first place. It’s not a hive mind, it’s a team.
The UN condemns Israel as a pastime activity. Nobody in Israel cares what they say at this point.
Because they are the West’s military outpost in the Middle East A
I guess sanctions only make sense when Israel is out of the picture.
Obviously illegal. Collective punishment is a war crime and makes Israel a monster. Imagine if there was a murderer in your building and the feds blew the entire building up.
As is punishing all Russian passport holders for the action of the government. So it’s either both EU and Israel are monsters or neither is.
There’s a bit of false equivalency here methinks
“Collective punishment is a war crime”. Except for Palestinians and Russians, of course. And anybody we disagree with. Fuck those civilians.
We are hypocrites. We have double standards.
I am just pointing it out.
Can we agree that “not letting people with Russian passport travel in NATO countries”
And “Slaughtering civilians en masse in retaliation to a terrorist attack”
Are just a wee bit different as far “collective punishment” goes?
You missed the point :
Russia invades and terrorises the Ukrainian civilians. We punish Russian civilians aka collective punishment.
Hamas invades Israel and terrorises Israeli civilians. Israel punishes Gaza civilians aka collective punishment.
In the first case we are OK. In the second case we scream at Israel (the OP post) “Collective punishment is war crime!!”
We. Are. Hypocrites.
……you’re comparing passports to murdering civilians.
Something tells me you still are not getting the point about collective punishment. But hey, you won’t be the first person who can’t see the hypocrisy in all of us.
As a punished Russian living in Lomonosov, let me explain you what has changed for us since this “punishment” started:
Absolutely nothing.
(Oh, yes, Coke bottles are now green, instead of red.)
This is not valid in all cases as I know multiple Russians and those living in EU continue to do so with no issue and those living in RU say it doesn’t affect them. You can even find interview with random RU citizens in RU and they all say it doesn’t affect them or that they want to attack UA BC Nato boarder is too close.
You missed the point :
Russia invades and terrorises the Ukrainian civilians. We punish Russian civilians aka collective punishment.
Hamas invades Israel and terrorises Israeli civilians. Israel punishes Gaza civilians aka collective punishment.
In the first case we are OK. In the second case we scream at Israel (the OP post) “Collective punishment is war crime!!”
We. Are. Hypocrites.
I don’t think I missed the point though.
I’m ststating that Russians don’t seem to be directly afected aside from having their favorite EU vacation destinations accessible via France or Turkey instead directly from Moscow. It means that so called collective punishment was either ineffective or so mild, that it had almost no effect on dayly lives of citizens.
You compare this with bombing city, being cut out of water, food, medicine and energy.
If anything, Russians collectively punished Ukrainians by shelling,detroying their energy and tradic infrastructure to make winter as bad as possible for UA.
deleted by creator
Ursula von der Leyen was against Russians destroying the energy infrastructure of Ukraine.
The same Ursula supports energy blockade of Gaza by Israel.
If you don’t see a hypocrisy from our leaders of the west, you brainwashed.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Launching missiles across borders is different than securing your own borders. You can’t possibly really be trying to equate the two?
“Collective punishment is a war crime”. Except for Palestinians and Russians, of course. And anybody we disagree with. Fuck those civilians.
We are hypocrites. We have double standards.
I am just pointing it out.
Hmmm let’s stay on topic. I didn’t say I support collective punishment of Palestine or anyone. I said missiles aren’t the same thing as border restrictions, because they clearly aren’t. Do you actually disagree?
Oh I love allegories. Let me try.
Imagine there was a murderer in your building. But he is not really interested in murdering you, he keeps shooting at some other people you also hate. The feds have tried to go into the building to extract the murderer, but his friends and you lynched the feds when they tried. The murderer has stockpiled his guns in the building and the feds figure that if they can’t get to the murderer at least they can destroy his guns and vantage point from which he is firing at people. They don’t really want to destroy the building but the murderer is actively trying to kill people and the people he is trying to kill demands action.
You receive a text message that the building you are in will be destroyed shortly. You want to leave, but now the murderer says he will kill you if you do.
It is a very silly thing to think that having a “civilian” stay in a legitimate military target ( rocket launcher and or rocket storage ) makes it a place that is untouchable!
And then you left and srill the rocket kills you even when you ate not in the building anymore
Are you telling me there are people being told their building will be blown up who leave the building to go stand just a few meters away on the street it sits on?
There wan an incident where people were told to evacuate and then the evacuation site was bombed, yes
How far away from the building did they evacuate?
Not excatly like that. They were told to evacuate to a particular place were they will be secure because supposedly Isael wouldn’t strike… and then, they strike that place anyway.
Yeah okay that’s fucked, that undermines IDF claims completely.
deleted by creator
There is no helping the clowns in this forum. They’re lost and don’t understand the costs of living in a terrorist society. There has been billions spend on providing aid, proving avenues, providing resources to the gaza strip.
“the cost of living in a terrorist society”
If Hamas orders civilians to stay in buildings that will be bombed, those lives are taken by Hamas, not Israel.
100% agreed
Well, no shit. And nothing will be done about it.
Not directed at OP
The EU may support Israel, but right now they’re calling them out for this bullshit and I’m applauding them for that. Hurting innocent civilians is never a good idea no matter which side of the conflict does it.
I just noticed that the replies have turned into a crap ton of arguing.
I’m surprised they haven’t used phosphorus on Gaza yet.
deleted by creator
Took longer than I thought it would.
deleted by creator
I saw videos of wf being used on gazan civvies. scumbag israelis
So was the blockade. and they did nothing about it . bunch of spineless hypocrites
hypocrites?
Also EU
Wait! I know what Borrell will do: expel Israel from Eurovision! That will serve them right and start behaving!
I don’t expect much more from anything leaded by Borrell. We know him well in Spain.
I’m going to be real, I doubt they can even muster the will to write a strongly worded letter with the kinds of members who make up the EU.
Stand up to Zionists!
Much like that UN report classifying Israel’s action against Palestinians as Apartheid (which is criminal in international law), much will be said and very little will be done about this. The state of Israel has been going against international law and agreements for almost its entire existence: see its support for illegal colonies and the walling and ghettoization of the West Bank and Gaza. Israel’s government has confidence that the US and NATO won’t do anything to stop their criminal actions against Palestinians because that is what they’ve been doing for the last half century. They will continue to coddle Israel until it fulfills its goal of completely exterminating or expelling Palestinians from the land between the river and the sea, forging a state with a single ethnicity, culture and religion out of Palestine.
PS: just before anyone claims it: no, I do not support gratuitous acts of terrorism by Hamas, just as I don’t support Israel’s terrorism against Palestinians. All I’m trying to do is point out the historical context of the current conflict, so that nothing is distorted.
“Do unto others as others have done unto you.”. – Israel
That was not the best takeaway, but here we are.
Palestine cut off Israel’s water and electricity?
deleted by creator
Blocking neccesities for civiliana like water is a war crime. Encircling enemy state after it lanched offensive to yours is not, otherwise e.g. allies pushing Nazis all the way back to Berlin was also crime.
Israel claims that Hamas is not a legitimate government and definitely not a state. They claim and control the territory of Gaza and consider Hamas a terrorist organization.
So by their own definition, this is a
war crimecrime against humanity.Kinda like the extermination of a people including taking hostages, torturing hostages, raping hostages, and executing hostages?
Two wrongs dont make a right, but Israel is by no means worse than HAMAS.
Why are you comparing the two? You’re insulting Israel by comparing them to a terrorist organization.
The Israeli Government should be better than criminals, just as the US should be better than the Taliban. But they actually kill more. Like it or not, Palestinians are citizens of Israel and living on their territory. If Israel kills them indiscriminately, they are committing a crime against humanity.
Going by the numbers would suggest Israel is 20 times worse than Hamas. But, that was before they started one of the largest scale war crimes in recent history*… I would argue that Israel is, from what seems to me a rather objective point of view, to be much worse
*I’m referring to the war crime on 2.2 million civilians who are being cut off from water, electricity and food, who can do nothing about it, because of, you guessed it, Israel.
Numbers are not the most important moral decider in war. By your logic, the US or Canada would have been the worst major player in WW2. Intent matters and moral values matter.
Nah. My logic is sound, don’t attribute flaws in it based on your inability to understand my point. Let me break it down for you:
Numbers are not the most important moral decider in war
I have not made this claim. I have suggested that numbers can help gain better understanding of a situation, especially when the numbers suggest incorrect portrayal of a situation, one which is extremely prevalent in US media.
Canada … in WW2, as topping the leaderboard as responsible for civilian casualties? Canada is your second place there? I mean, why the fuck do I bother discussing this with people online. And… the US on first place? Sure, the US nuked 2-300 000 people… Man… the dumb arguments I see. Aside from ethnic cleansing, it is one of the worst war crimes committed, but even so, it’s a % of the civilian casualties in USSR, China and Nazi Germany. But, I’m sure that’s part of the copium right. “The animals beheaded 40 babies” => “Let’s do some ethnic cleansing, because intent matters, not numbers!”. (PS: Numbers of beheaded babies: 0, “but I’m sure they intended to!”)
Why are they not sending wepons to Palestinians?
What?
EU send incredible amount of weapons to Ukraine, citing repelling invasion. So even if we generously forget how most of their members were participating in invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan, surely they can send at least some weapons to Palestine?
Removed by mod
Because the very same article shows the EU most certainly doesn’t like Hamas.
His condemnation of Israel’s behaviour came after three days of EU rhetoric that had focused on the “utterly inhuman … shocking … barbarous” nature of Hamas’ atrocities, while highlighting Israel’s rights rather than its obligations.
He pledged his staff would conduct a swift review of EU aid to Palestine to make sure no money ended up with Hamas via error or deception.
Stopping aid to ordinary Palestinians would be “the best present we could give to Hamas and it would jeopardise our interests and partnerships in the Arab world,” he added.
“We want to make sure that, beyond UNRWA, the EU budget does not get to any organisations which has any ties, any links to Hamas,” he said.
EU sending weapons is not a matter of who is defending or attacking, only a matter of who they like
Of course, i was (rhetorically) asking our resident EU shills which claims EU is follwing some kind of beningn international policy.
Removed by mod
