The mother of a woman whose body was paraded through the streets by Hamas has pleaded for help finding her daughter.
A video showing German tattoo artist Shani Louk on the back of a pickup truck circulated on social media after the Palestinian militant group Hamas attacked Israel on October 7.
Louk had been attending an outdoor “Festival for Peace” party near Kibbutz Urim when the area was targeted. First, rockets were launched, then gunmen and appeared and shot into the crowd, CNN reported. Party attendees told the outlet people immediately started to flee, passing dead bodies on the ground as they tried to escape the massacre.
The attack and resulting conflict has left hundreds of Israelis and Palestinians dead, with Israel’s prime minister declaring war.
A video of a young woman with dreadlocks on the back of a pickup truck and surrounded by Hamas soldiers started circulating on social media shortly after the attack. In it, she appears stripped to her underwear, and her legs are bent at unnatural angles, while one soldier grabs her hair. People are also seen spitting on her body.
In it, she appears stripped to her underwear, and her legs are bent at unnatural angles, while one soldier grabs her hair. People are also seen spitting on her body.
And some terrorist supporters here on Lemmy were trying to explain to us that they were just casually “transporting” the body of a dead woman and that they weren’t doing anything disgusting with her. We all know what islamist terrorists do when they spot a young woman, to pretend that Hamas is any different from ISIS is to be completely delusional.
Palestinians will lose more and more support (mine already) as long as they keep shielding the Islamist animals of Hamas.
EDIT: also thank goodness for [email protected], because others like [email protected] are run by terrorist supporters (see for yourself in their modlog: https://lemmy.ml/modlog/14788)
Both things can be bad… you know that? Right?
And sometimes one side is much worse than the other.
So which far right extremist theocracy is worse in this case?
I’d go with the one parading executed civilians and spitting on their bodies tbh.
I’d go with the one parading executed civilians and spitting on their bodies tbh.
this sadly does not narrow it down
Idk, the ones who decided they didn’t like the borders they agreed to so they took it and started bombing schools, apartments, parks, and the like as “defending our land” when the locals pushed back seem pretty equal here.
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Did you just start following this conflict yesterday? Lmao.
Ok but one of those is funny “reason:explaining antisemitism to a Jewish person”
I didn’t read what they actually said but that got a solid chuckle from me
I didn’t know the pope of jewdaism was a lemmee admin. What an honour.
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Colonizers versus natives, and you side with the colonizers who created this situation. Lmao.
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And what will Germany do about one of their people being murdered in this way? Nothing. They’ll hide behind their mask of progressive European nation, and do nothing, while likely supporting the bad guys, just like they do with Russia.
You can’t get Germans to do anything unless you wave money in their face
ya, we did the whole blood and soil bit in the 1930-1945, we have since decided that ethnic cleansing is not the answer to someone getting killed.
or what would you say Germany do? go and start slaughtering the people in Gaza? maybe dig out the old playbooks, what was it 10
jewsMuslims for every German killed? is that what you are calling for?I guess your answer is to do nothing. Kill Germans? It’s ok, we would hate to be seen as intolerant to terrorists, so just kill our citizens. But in truth, Germans would glass the entire continent if it meant they get more money
there are two options for what Germany could do, Nothing, or invade all of Israel, institute an occupational goverment and then rebuild the Israeli government with both Jews and Palestinians.
on the other hand, your “do something” seems to be entirely kill everyone in Gaza as revenge against Hamas.
Damn krauts.
Can someone please explain to me why both Israel and Hamas (not the Palestinian people as a whole, just Hamas) can’t be condemned for the atrocities they have committed?
Because Lemmy seems to be telling me I have to pick a side and, as far as I can tell, both sides have committed atrocities. Why should I pick either side? Why can’t I just say both are evil and not support either side? Must I take a side in every conflict? Because I sure as hell didn’t when Iran and Iraq were warring.
“Both are evil” rhetoric is often used to justify or obfuscate one sides crimes, and because on the broader scale, Israel unfolds destruction and death at a higher scale, so there’s a lot of intense emotions from thise keyed into Palestinian struggle. That’s why so many want you to pick.
It is important to remember Hamas ≠ Palestinians, and Israeli government ≠ Israeli citizens. Yes, they live in a colonial state, but Hamas doesn’t care if they try to fight to change it or not, furthermore, most left leaning people are in colonial states or in former colonizing states so they are basically saying they think violence against them is justified too. Everyone should be aware of their privileges and work to dismantle the systems that create them, but that doesn’t mean they need be killed in order to realize that!
It’s ridiculous because you’re absolutely right too, Israeli calling them all “human animals” and doing a total blockade of Gaza is a war crime, but so is what happened to Shani Louk. In the world I am fighting for, the people responsible for both would be held accountable.
I can’t think of a single successful revolution that didn’t end up with significant civilian casualties. Revolutions only arise because of extreme discontent among a population about their socioeconomic position.
Remember the Reign of Terror in France? Washington’s campaign against the Iroquois in America? Revolution is bloody and revolution leads to civilian casualties, but at its core it’s caused by systematic oppression by the government and inaction on behalf of the population.
By the way, Gazans have tried peaceful protest. It got thousands of people shot.
I can’t think of a single successful revolution that didn’t end up with significant civilian casualties
A gross oversimplification. Will civilians inevitably get got in the crossfire or be targeted by reactionaries during protests as part of the revolution? Sure. But there’s a difference between that and seeking out and targeting a site without a military presence and civilians from more than just Israel.
Remember the Reign of Terror in France?
Not a good example to cite since that destabilized revolutionary france and helped create the conditions for Napoleon to rise to power.
Revolution is bloody and revolution leads to civilian casualties, but at its core it’s caused by systematic oppression by the government and inaction on behalf of the population
Again, a revolution is bloody because of the people reacting against it, it doesn’t have to be because your side decided to target civilians and perpetuate cycles of violence. The revolutions that created long lasting new paradigms didn’t serve as vehicles to enact vengeance.
I find it’s usually best to just avoid any social media around major and divisive news events like this. Specifically where people are allowed to comment and express their opinions. Everyone just gets more extreme in their views, are convinced they are absolutely right, and there is never any room for nuance.
I get it, but it saddens me to think how many people might be around me both irl and online that would be alright with or even happy about the death of unarmed people of all ages and genders. Or that the people on the left in particular (since that’s my camp) suddenly don’t care about sexual violence if it’s being perpetrated against someone they’ve decided deserved it or was a legitimate target because of social grievances
I get that too, but I dont think social media is really a great place to get a representative idea of how people are truly feeling about things.
A lot of social media tends to evolve into echo chambers, so not great for wider views. As mentioned too, it’s not great for nuance. While I think most people are probably capable of getting the nuance of a situation, when “discussing” things online, having to type your thoughts out into a few small paragraphs, that all just seems to get completely lost, and only the bullet points, which are often the most extreme parts, remain.
Lemmy is also seemingly filled with tankies and people that seem like they want to be edgy just to be edgy or specifically to push certain viewpoints/ideologies. And considering that it’s not a widely adopted platform, I think it’s especially not representative of people as a whole.
And of course with the anonymity of the internet, people know they can say stuff just to get other people frustrated or angry with no consequences to their own personal lives.
There are a lot of people on the left who think that they oppose things by adopting the reverse of whatever Mainstream Media says or by unironically endorsing what the right wing fear mongers about.
For example, if the Mainstream media dehumanises Palestinians, then they should dehumanise Israelis back. Opposing Israeli apartheid is not only the same as supporting Hamas but not supporting Hamas means your don’t REALLY care about Palestinian liberation.
Another example being that liberals and conservatives fear monger about how Palestianians all want to kill Israelis and anyone who supports the settler state, and so some people on the left adopt that as their actual viewpoint in order to “oppose” the right.
I think the issue is, one is UN recognized state supported officially by the biggest military power in the world, spending billions in tax payer money in aid. While the other are people who are living in the biggest open prison in the world, get water, gas, electricity, and mobility shutdown constantly. And barley have any voice as media suppressed their truth.
Now when the state kills people, with no guns or weapons, in front of the cameras, on the streat nothing happened. When the other do the same, presidents all over the world not only condem the act put also make it clear they support the state that publicly committing war crimes.
Hamas is evil and anyone on here supporting them are complicit in supporting evil.
Hamas is a monster fed by Israeli antagonism because feeding those trying to coexist peacefully prevents colonization. They build a monster to fight in order to get more support from people who simply want the monster to go away. All the while, they move to accomplish their real goal of getting rid of Palestinians like other evil empires have attempted to do to Jewish people for millenia. It’s a fucking tragedy to see people that should know the pain of discrimination more than anyone, perpetuate the cycle of violence. Theocratic nationalism is a sin against humanity.
I could easily say:
Israel is evil and anyone on here supporting them is complicit in supporting evil.
But their evil isn’t as flashy and sensational
Whatabboutism at its best. Lovely
That was not my intention. It was to show that blanket statements are cheap and easy to make.
In normal circumstances you dont support any of the sides. When one side kills hundreds of innocents of the other side and takes hostages you help the other side deal with the damage.
you help the other side deal with the damage.
How do you mean?
It must be lovely to have such a simplistic world view. I wish I was as sure about anything as you are about this notoriously complicated subject.
How is killing parents in front of their children, kidnaping these children, filming yourself with said children crying and showing them as trophies , crashing a festival and murdering over 200 participants a complicated subject ?
Maybe think about reconsidering your own views of if the world if you support these acts.
it’s almost like the entire region is nothing but two sides led by religious radicals who believe that it is their task to purge the other side.
there are plenty of cases where anti-arab terrorist did similar, often but not always as part of the military, one of who is the current Israeli minister of internal security.
Did I say I support them? I just said speaking out it as good v evil, black v white is simplistic. Do you disagree?
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Nobody is saying this is good vs evil except you.
The person I was responding to called hamas evil. You called hamas evil. The cognitive dissonance is strong in you.
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Saying someone is acting evil and calling an entire group evil, regardless of actions, are two different things. Equating them to make your position stronger is a transparent attempt to sidestep the point.
Hamas is evil, they’re a literal terrorist organization that uses fear and violence as their primary tools and methods. The situation Hamas operates in is absolutely nuanced but saying a terrorist organization is evil and supporting a terrorist organization makes you complicit in supporting evil is not an indicator of a simplistic world view, it’s stating an objective fact. If anything you’re the one expressing a simplistic worldview by ignoring the obvious truths of the situation and its various pieces in favor of obfuscating the parts of the situation that are self evident and clear.
You just hand waved a bunch of shit and replied with “No You.” This position holds no water.
Idk man, they remind me of Hezbolla. Terrorist organization with social programs. They wanted the destruction of Israel and on multiple occasions used the phrase “exterminate the Jews”.
Hamas is an evil organization, by evil I mean genocide, apartheid, terror, and fear being their governing styles. They’re just less successful at their genocide than China is.
I don’t know what to tell you, but not Hamas or the Israeli government are interested in peace, in fact many members of the current government were anti-arab terrorists beforehand, and now some guy who got his kicks murdering Muslims in mosques, and praising soldiers who openly execute children as heroes is in charge of the police, and a “settler”(see imperial expansion) in charge of the military, and of course the “Palestinians aren’t even people” PM they have.
this is what racism and ethnostate bullshit brings
That’s well put, and I couldn’t agree more.
supporters of Hamas or the Israeli government got mad
But they have no power. They are in a glorified prison and that prison keeps getting smaller. They want to exterminate the people keeping them in that prison. How on earth does that make them anything like one of the 2 most powerful countries in the world trying to make a genetically homogeneous china?
Israel unilaterally left gaza around 20 years ago.
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I’ve given you as much of a response as your comment was worth. Have a good day.
Heaven forbid you examine yourself. I can have good day because my country has a military and government to protect my human rights. I’m sure yours does too. Palestinians don’t. The only thing they have left to fight for their own humanity is terrorism. But that’s not simple, so lets just call them evil.
I’d suggest taking your own advice, buddy.
I did and it turns out Geopolitics is just as simple as Trump says! Thanks for setting me straight, I thought that a thousand year conflict was complicated but if I just call one side evil it gets so much simpler. Thank you so much, buddy.
The purpose of using more words than ‘no you’ is expressed in the comment.
Ends justify the means sort of thing?
Who are you responding to? Because this makes no sense as a response to me.
You seemed to be implying Hamas isn’t black and white terrible. I was wondering if you thought that because their bad means (terrorism and corpse defiling) are justified by their good (or grey) cause.
Well aren’t you just a sensationalist. I think its not black and white due to the humanitarian atrocities perpetuated on the palestinian people by the israeli government and its people. These are the chickens coming home to roost. When we see videos of bullies getting their comeuppance on the internet its always cheering for the little guy, but as soon as that bully is a country you support it seems a lot of people on the internet put their blinders on.
No I don’t cheer for the little guy getting their comeuppance, especially when the ‘little guy’ it is just taking their rage out against bystanders. Would you agree that rape, murder, and defiling corpses, especially for the purpose of terrifying other people is bad? No matter what the end/cause?
It is, now, black and white because Hamas made it so . They went way of deviant-psychos to make sure no one can doubt they are the scum.
They could have e.g. ask for international help, go public etc. They choose to cause suffering so they don’t want to improve their living conditions they want to worsen them for others.
You’d be the guy saying Native Americans are “evil” for fighting against European colonizers.
Are you saying that europeans have a historical claim to America from BCE???
When you attack a festival for peace, guess what? You’re the bad guys.
But Reddit and Lemmy keep telling me Hamas are the oppressed good guys! /S
I am yes to see that on Lemmy in the way you describe /: seems like everyone agrees that killing civilians is wrong, including when Israel does it.
you missed the Marxists from lemmygrad who yesterday kept cheering for Hamas and kept downplaying their savagery
Ah okay, so when you said lemmy, you meant lemmygrad specifically
Marxists and the far-left are also spread all over Lemmy, not just lemmygrad, you could see more pro-terrorist comments from other instances. Their pattern is usually the same: rebrand it as “resistance”, downplay the fact that they targeted mainly civilians, and rewrite the facts by claiming for example that the woman was just being transported for burial.
Yes but lemmygrad and hexbear are hardly representative of the fediverse.
Of course, I don’t think I implied that. What I meant to say is that they were very active yesterday on any thread about Hamas’ terrorist attack to defend them.
Yeah I hear that. I’ve definitely been liberally blocking instances
How does one block an instance? That’s not a feature on Lemmy, at least not on personal settings.
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On boost you can mute instances.
No, but the original person this discussion started with did imply that.
But Reddit and Lemmy keep telling me Hamas are the oppressed good guys! /S
What about ML?
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Ok
Not to mention how they see Palestinians as pawns
They almost always circlejerk themselves into admitting one of the reasons they’re so giddy about civilian slaughter is because they think it’ll mean resources will be diverted from Ukraine so daddy Putin can conquer it and genocide those kulaks like grampappy Stalin did!
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The entire situation is fubar. I feel for the citizens of both Israel and Palestine as both countries are just horrible to each other. To me it feels like there is no good side, whatever you choose, you end up with one form of evil x.x
I wish there would be a good way to solve this but I am not sure that this will be fixed any time soon. Hopefully the bloodshed will be minimal, because hoping for none at all would be futile
Someone hasn’t been to hexbear and lemmygrad today.
Literally in this thread right now.
Yeah and the Hamas supporting comments are downvoted to hell. Where is the problem?
In this thread yeah, but in other ones they’re at the top.
Which ones?
https://lemmy.world/post/6485742
Most there are like “yeah murdering and raping innocent civilians is bad but what choice do the poor Palestinians have after Israel stole their land”.
Top 8 comments in that thread condemn it. The ninth one is downvoted to hell.
Here, for example: https://lemmy.world/comment/4223593
Looks to me more like a healthy discussion /:
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No, this incident is special because she’s neither Palestinian nor Israeli, was purposely killed anyway, and then her corpse was paraded and glorified. Race has absolutely nothing to do with that. It would be just as horrific if she were instead a black man from the US, or if Israel had done it.
It doesn’t matter who the victim is, or who the perpetrator is – they’re fucking monsters and need to die.
Just checking to make sure, you believe that this is the first person to be killed by Israel or Hamas that wasn’t from the region?
That was purposely killed in an indiscriminate attack and then their body paraded around? I believe so. The international community is generally not harmed in these conflicts and then their corpse celebrated.
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Because it was all at once? I’m sure numbers are similar on both sides if not far more killed by Israelis, just not in large scale attacks. So the issue is that they were loud and immediate instead of slow simmering genocide?
I’m sure that western media will handle this news in a completely rational, reasonable, and non-inflammatory way.
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This seems to be a swipe at Western media, but are you sure you want to make the point over crimes against humanity and war crimes?
Yes
Do you not understand the concept of time and space as limited resources? The media chooses which stories to boost. Believing that all war crimes and other events will be reported, and reported with the weight they deserve is pure fantasy. And what stories are given attention are ultimately going to shape people’s narratives.
I don’t know if anyone can cover things this horrible entirely rationaly. But I hope they at least examine their bias.
Don’t worry, they won’t
What is a rational, reasonable, non-inflammatory way to handle such a story, in your opinion?
By not isolating the single worst instance in over 500 deaths as being representative of both the entire conflict and movements behind it. It took a lot of atrocities to get us to this point in the first place.
