I know I’m supposed to want it to keep going up as a wealth generator or whatever.
But like… I wouldn’t be able to afford the monthly payments if I bought my house right now and it’s scary. Also none of my friends are buying homes, none of them are even renting full places. Just like renting rooms.
So what are your feelings home owners of lemmy?
Meh I don’t care. We bought a couple years ago when rates were super lower but prices were high. Our mortgage is less than rent would be and we’re not going anywhere for a long time. I think of the house as a place to live, not an investment really. Like a car. It serves a purpose and I’ll use it until I can’t anymore.
Yup the people that are mostly disadvantaged by (and cause) a housing crash are the people that treat houses like stocks.
Same boat. Got a 10 year lock in at ~2% interest and now the rates are more then double that.
Going to do everything we can to keep that rate although we doing extra repayments just in case.
You point out the Catch-22 that a lot of people miss on this stuff. They get so fixated on increasing their property values because they want to screw someone over when they finally sell their house…not stopping to think that the same thing is about to happen to them when they go to buy one. Not to mention, higher property values means higher property taxes (in some places, anyway).
Yeah like it’s cool my 200k town home I bought 4 years ago is now selling for 400k (neighbor just sold for that much).
Except that means that the 350k home I was thinking might be a nice upgrade one day, is 700k.
Like I’m way more screwed over now unless I intend to like sell my home then move to the middle of nowhere. All that higher value means is property taxes like you said. But of course renters are the most screwed.
This is precisely why your home price won’t crash. You are locked in and so is everyone else. You literally can’t do better, so selling is a bad move.
Yep. Nobody’s buying, because they can’t afford to, and nobody’s selling because they can’t afford to.
I just sold my condo and went back to renting. Best choice ever. Feels great to be free.
If it makes you feel good, I’d say congrats. I’ve never owned a condo and it has different considerations than a home. I sold my first house in March 2021 after I bought our current house in 2020. Both felt like some of the smartest, best times moves. I actually do wish I would have bought a more expensive house in 2020, but we’re likely buying more land in the next 2-5 years. Not holding some kind of property right now (again, idk about condos), feels like leaving stupid money on the table.
This was actually my thought process when I got divorced. It probably would have been prudent in many ways to downsize to a condo, since it’s just me, however I could afford to buy my ex out of the house and any percent gains will be off a much higher base. I’m hoping that when I do eventually downsize, that my equity will be higher than if I had a paid off condo. In your example, doubling prices gained $200k inequity for the condo owner, vs $350k gain for the house owner (of course it’s more complicated when you factor in the mortgage)
… so yeah, it would suck for the housing market to crash, or stay down
A housing crash is only bad for you if you’re either outright selling, or moving to a less expensive house.
A bad crash can make you owe more than you can get for the house, which can make it impossible for you to move without losing money. If you lose your job or have to relocate involuntarily, property being cheaper elsewhere isn’t much consolation if you are under water on your existing loan.
Yes, so outright selling, or moving to a less expensive house, voluntarily or not.
Non-home owner of Lemmy here. I want you all to know that my fondest wish to see the housing market completely implode is strictly not personal.
My only chance to buy a house slipped away a few years ago. House prices have gone up by 50% or more in some locations, and interest rates have more than doubled. What was previously affordable is now completely outside my means to pay for each month.
My last hope now is for a 2008 repeat so I might be able to snag something up for what it’s actually worth. I certainly can’t count on the state or the government to take the housing crisis seriously enough to have them actually build more affordable housing for people to buy and drive the asking prices lower.
I feel this so much. My dad was a general contractor in California during the 2008 crash; we lost 6 houses that were either ready to sell, or still being built. So I personally know the kind of pain and suffering that a housing market crash can cause for certain people. At this point though I have to look out for me and my family, currently renting part of a way-to-small condo in an area where you’d need 3 incomes to afford a mortgage on a house big enough for all 4 of us.
So yeah, crash and burn market. Give me a chance to get us out of here.
We need a housing market crash. My pocket book be damned. We’ll figure it out. The next generation won’t.
Ain’t that the truth.
I live in Orem, a city you probably have never heard of. Population of under 100k, not a rich city by any means. Median individual income of 26k, median household income of 65k.
There are no single family homes for sale under 400k, and all apartment/condos for sale are 300k.
Just picking a random apartment for sale for a little under 300k and doing an estimate of 10% down with current rates is a mortgage of 2.2 k a month on 30 year fixed. So of course whoever buys and rents these out are going to do so at AT LEAST that number.
With JUST taxes taken out of 65k bringing it down to 45k, the mortgage/rent alone would be well over half the median house hold income for these things. But of course there would be HOA, withdrawals for 401k, withdrawals for medical care, etc. Meaning it would probably be closer to 70% of median household net just to pay mortgage on the cheapest apartment for sale.
And of course we can repeat this exercise for just about any city and get the same result. It’s scary.
Howdy neighbor. Things are pretty bad up here in SLC too. I’m just gonna keep renting until it all comes down, or the lake dries up.
Howdy neighbor! Fingers crossed it comes down, I know parts of SLC are becoming a nightmare to rent. So hopefully you have a safe and cheaper place to live.
Fun part about Orem is that all of those houses for 400-600 were built in the 80s and haven’t been updated since then.
So then you start looking at houses in at least Saratoga or Spanish fork. I landed in Springville and I bought 3 years ago before the market got as bad as it did.
Your pocketbook will be fine, unless you’re flipping houses. The only thing affected by the price of your primary residence is your borrowing power.
The housing market isn’t going to crash. We’re at the highest mortgage rates in 23 years and it’s STILL a sellers’ market. The fact is, inventory being incredibly low + home buying being desirable for many == no reason for a crash. Even the Great Recession only resulted in a temporary price dip.
I know a lot of millennials and zoomers would LIKE for there to be a crash because they think it would let them afford a home. This is a false belief, though: if there were a major crash, it would likely be accompanied by a recession in the labor market too, so there goes your ability to pay for the house.
Also, it’s not black and white. If house prices and interest rates cooled off, it would let me (a homeowner) refinance my mortgage.
Morever, there are benefits to home ownership outside of equity / profiting off a sale:
- Tax benefits (I can deduct my mortgage interest and property taxes; can’t do that with a rental)
- Do what I want with my house – customize, upgrade, etc.
- No landlord to tell me what I can or can’t do, or kick me out
- For complicated reasons, there aren’t many detached house rentals in my area, so owning a house means no loud, obnoxious apartment living – this is the BIG one for me
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/housing-market-crash-experts-191734802.html---
This is the right answer.
Look at Europe. For many the closest you get to buying a house is a 99 year lease, and for the majority renting is normal. The main difference is that renters have many more rights so there’s less reason to want to own for yourself.
Out of curiosity who are you leasing from in that situation?
Landholders, many from families who have owned the land for centuries.
Just try to buy a house in any of Europe’s historical capitals. They went through what we are now centuries ago.
i bought my house at the top (two years ago) and no regrets. less about it being an investment and more about having a stable place to call my own that gives me safety and not at the whims of a landlord. i’d quite like it if house prices became more affordable for everyone, the counter intuitive thing to say. 🤷♂️ i was supposed to become a nimby and vote conservative but now i’m more left wing than ever.
Pretty much this. I’m quite content with losing some of my net worth if it means other people don’t have to struggle as much to have their own place to live.
I bought at the peak myself to have stable housing while raising kids.
If house prices just stayed flat until wages caught up and then only increased similar to match wage increases (not inflation) that might be a reasonable compromise between the middle class who have a house and don’t. Those who own will still be paying down a mortgage so increasing your equity that way without being decimated if you have to move. Unfortunately at this point, that could take awhile before wages caught up.
Houses should have never been an investment.
Burn the entire fucking thing down.
If I burn my house down then where will I live?
In your new Wells Fargo Lifepod™! 160 sqft of essential living. Conviently stackable. Durable metal construction. Only $3900/mo!
*Doors sold separately.
It’s Wells Fargo, so have they already used your info to buy one in your name without me knowing?
Yes, and it will cost me some money as I’m getting ready to put mine on the market in the coming months.
But I don’t give a shit, the current conditions are unsustainable and I have great empathy for the generations behind me that are excluded from what is a fucking FOUNDATION of getting a stable life going. The shit has to come tumbling down at some point, otherwise our social structure will continue to degrade. The people who will bitch and moan about it are so out of touch they should be ignored anyway. Bring on the crash.
Where are you located? How much do you think you’ll lose. 30-40%? Or are you willing to lose even more?
I hope whoever buys from you is appreciative and understands your position too.
Colorado. I’m not going to really lose money over what I paid because I’ve owned it for almost 20 years. But it will be way down from the market high here and I think that’s peachy. I’d guess I’ll make 20% less than if I had sold 1-2 years ago. If the market really does crash like 2008 then 30% or more. But Housing prices have got to come down still, a lot. Banning corporations from owning single family residences would help a ton.
I care more about houses being affordable for everyone than I do about turning a profit. Greed is a huge sickness in our world. Hell I don’t think houses should be an investment vehicle in the first place. It’s a place to live not a goddamn wealth generator.
As a homeowner, there is nothing to be ready for. Nothing has value unless you’re trying to buy or sell it and I’m doing neither in the near/medium future regardless of the price of my home. I bought before prices went stupid so I feel like it is unlikely any crash will do the value to below what I paid.
I mean things can get way worse. Look at Canada and Australia. No sign of a crash in either yet, prices just keep climbing. Homeless encampments and the like were alien to us up until recently. The median Aussie household income is ~$65,000. Homes start at about $600,000 and at that price a lot of them are teardowns, you’d be spending at least $200,000 in repairs.
Banks want 20% down.
It is scary, definitely.
I rent a nice house, I’m lucky. I’ve also not had a holiday in over a decade…
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My condo is paid in full. I want the market to sink like a stone.
This current housing market has everyone trapped. I cannot sell and upgrade because I’m not going to pay 7% interest on the part I don’t have in my bank account.
I have no issues with that. I’m not living here to make a fortune on speculation. I am living here because it is my home, and I leave selling this to our kids once we are dead, hopefully many decades in the future.
Can’t wait. Maybe then we can finally afford a decent house instead of our tiny apartment-style condo.
Not worried if we can’t sell, cause we can always rent.
Woah don’t use that R word around here, gonna have people calling for your death because you’re exploiting your renters even if you treat them well.
Seriously. I rent out two apartments and people act like I’m a slumlord.
You are a middleman who provides no value. The difference between the people paying you and yourself is one earns their daily bread while you rest on the work of the past. It is enough that you are getting money, don’t expect us to like you just because you can legally do your “work” slightly worse.
The value I provide is taking over the risks and responsibilities of owning the apartment. Not everybody is willing or able to take out a loan of that size. The tenant maintains their flexibility of moving wherever they want or need to at relatively short notice. If there’s problems with the apartment I must figure it out, not them. It’s not my job by the way. The rent my tenants pay covers the bills I get for owning the apartment. I‘m employed somewhere else. What is your idea of doing it differently? Must housing be just free for everyone? Or everybody must just buy? I’m generally curious!
Whatever you tell yourself at night.
Why do you think that is? All this raw anger directed at a member of our economic class? Maybe, just possibly it is because everyone has had at least one shit landlord and they know that said landlord got away with it and is still out there ruining another person. Nah crazy talk. It must be totally random.
Wow, neat logic. Hey, now that you mention it, I’ve met a shitty person or two in my day. Guess I should call for the death of all people, hmm?
Wait, this couldn’t possibly be the same exact logic most racists use to justify why they hate X race, could it? Naw, I guess this landlord is just “one of the good ones,” huh?
OR maybe all X aren’t Y just because some X are Y.
As exciting as this sarcasm battle seems, you have made up your mind that all X are in fact Y and nothing I say will be able to change that, so I’m going to have to decline, sorry.
How many security deposits have you stolen this past month alone?
Well, first off your reading comprehension needs work, I’m not the landlord so “0.”
Secondly, with him only owning two apartments and people typically signing a year lease, theres about a 2/365 chance on any given day, and that’s assuming 100% “keep” rate of security deposits, no renewals, etc.
Or did you think “two apartments” and “two apartment buildings” is the same thing?
Capitalism is a Ponzi scheme. Build up debt, and pay it off by transferring it to the next generation of suckers.
I look forward to the crash, and hope it’s not just a reset of the same system.
My mom was complaining about some pyramid scheme get friend fell for and I explained how every business is a pyramid scheme.
You work, you produce way more value than you are paid, that money goes to paying other people and growing the business to make the shareholders rich. You aren’t rewarded for your work, generally. Somehow this is normal. The only difference with a real pyramid scheme is that they generally lie about how much you could succeed.
My wife and I are both lucky and we bought our place mortgage free because we were able to save while paying off our old place.
While making the purchase we specifically talked about how if the market crashes by 50%, we’re still better off. Because most likely every home will be similarly cheaper. And our earning potential would be similar.
The difference is that it’s hard to predict what will happen in an economic contraction like that. There would be a lot of joblessness and a lot of hardship.
I’m hoping we can minimize the joblessness and hardship (which is already happening). People are unionizing, despite the best efforts of the owners of even businesses that had a progressive reputation, and the strikes are getting results! It gives me a lot of hope for fairness without the reset that could lead to mass homelessness and poverty. But having been around the block a few times, I know it will be a close thing.
I’m a cynic and I find myself pretty perpetually expecting the worse from humanity.
But sometimes we really pull it together and knock it out of the park.
I think it’s great to have high hopes, I wish I had the fortitude to stay positive more often.
