It really isn’t leftists’ fault, though. Trump easily won the popular vote and flipped georgia, pennsylvania, and wisconsin from their dem vote in 2020. Low voter turnout/voter suppression are the real culprits - along with dems failing to do almost any of the things that could’ve changed this outcome. Leftist memes did not lose dems the election. Voter apathy and the sheer popularity of fascism did.
Leftist memes did not lose dems the election. Voter apathy and the sheer popularity of fascism did.
I’m not necessarily attributing blame here, but I’m pretty sure that OP is suggesting that leftist memes helped lead to this apathy. Say what you will, Trump voters were excited for their candidate… somehow, despite the list of reasons not to being far too long to be listed here. But many on the left either were just lukewarm on her, just considered her the lesser of two evils, or were protest voting third party or abstaining for one reason or another, mostly over Palestine. And there were memes galore to make clear to everyone what the general mood was. It doesn’t exactly inspire enthusiasm to those that need that a lot of enthusiasm to even bother (those people are frustrating, btw). I don’t know how much it actually contributed to or propogated the apathy versus how much it just reflected the apathy already there, but a case could be made either way.
They didn’t lead to the apathy - they pointed out the existing apathy would cost Dems the election. It’s like saying the person who said you need to wear a seatbelt caused the wreck.
You’re exactly right about people being excited for Trump and lukewarm on Harris, but that’s entirely on the Democrats for picking the platform and strategy that lost to Trump in 2016.
Harris had a notable and surprising lead when they announced Biden was out - then they changed nothing else. People didn’t just not like the candidate, they didn’t like the policies. They only changed the candidate and thought Trump was a big enough cudgel to bully people into voting even though that demonstrably doesn’t work.
Why do you think the turnout was so low? Millions of idiots were pressuring people to withhold their vote over Palestine in a colossal self-fuck. That is if you assume these people spreading that are really that stupid. Some were, but I think a large percentage were paid trolls. And their campaigning worked. Russia owns the United States now
I hold the Democratic party entirely responsible for trying to win by stealing Trump’s base instead of working with the left. The voters cannot themselves be to blame in this kind of election because that assumption destroys democracy. If I must vote for one of two bad candidates then the parties are never pressured to even pretend they represent the people. This isn’t hard, 19 year old college freshmen learn this stuff.
Yes, and the people at fault are the democratic party, their consultants, and people like tracy who can’t get over their vaunted ‘lesser evil!’ world view to realize just how fucking toxic as individuals they are. we’re engaging because tracy needs the release and others need to see how toxic it is.
Another contributor to low turnout was massive voter suppression. It’d be interesting to see that quantified. Hundreds of thousands of voters were being purged in each of several states. The single-issue Gaza vote was lost in the noise of those gross examples of electoral manipulation.
I’m sure you’re right. It’s hard to know where to focus the blame most, but I am livid that this country is worse than my worst fears. On a certain level I am losing any desire to even care specifically how/why. I wouldn’t have considered not voting before this but now I honestly am 99.9% of the way to saying fuck it all.
If Harris had campaigned on the issues she would have had so many Republican women jump ship. Just look at how many of them voted for abortion in Missouri.
There’s a million reasons people have given me for voting Trump, none of them rational. But the classic tropes of fear and disgust won out again. I’m old enough to remember the 2004 election, then it was gay people. Now it’s trans people and dark-skinned migrants. I really didn’t think those old tropes would work this time, but it just keeps working. Americans will just keep falling for it, apparently.
While it’s depressing that we’re reminded of the power of dumb at hateful people yet again, we should remember that nothing actually changed in that regard this election. We’re just discovering what’s always been there beneath the surface. I don’t think the malaise we’re feeling now is so much about what Trump will do - sure scores of people will die from bad policy, but that’s nothing new. Rather, we’re upset about what this reveals about ourselves. But we shouldn’t be upset about the act of revelation, because it tells us what we need to fix.
It wasn’t ‘voter apathy’ it was a misplaced sense of voter moral superiority. It’s the thing leftist rhetoric has been weak to for a very long time. That love of withholding support except for perfection. The idea that compromise or chosing a lesser evil from two bad options dirties you. It doesn’t matter what you lost if you personally took “the high ground”.
This cutting of our noses to spite our face was exploited all to shit this election. They lulled people by appealing to the same zeal of righteousness that they know divides us fundamentally knowing that when push comes to shove people will turn up their noses on principle of not being personally catered to and forget that their ability to help at all is contingent on the freedoms that one party was explicitly putting on the chopping block.
It will be a while before people can admit that they were duped and there’s a lot of fault to go around, particularly in those funded astroturf campaigns designed to bait the hook… The right have been watching us for the past decade they knew how to divide us and it is on US that so many of us fell for it.
Dude, wow okay. let me inform you how voting works.
a person (or group) has ideas, and says ‘hey friends, support me so I can implement these ideas’
people then look at your ideas and say ‘oh that sounds grand!’ or ‘No thanks, pass’
the person who gets the most people to say ‘oh that sounds grand!’ wins.
now here is the thing. harris ‘grand idea’ was a fucking genocide, and no support for labor. this isn’t about fucking moral superiority. its about a complete fucking lack of morals by harris across the board.
If you walk into a fucking room of people and tell them to ‘join you for some genocide’ dear fucking god do I hope they tell you to fuck right off. Now unfortunately 30% of the population is down for genocide. another 30% are willing to go along with it if you threaten them enough (or won’t impact them personally). and a final 30% is like ‘lulz newp’. Why the democrats thought it would be good policy to try to out compete genocidal fucks at their own game for votes is beyond me.
Do you remember the number on this “incumbent advantage”? The establishment didn’t just switch out Biden on a whim. Biden literally fucked his chances at winning at the debate. You are barking up the wrong tree
Did I say I’m happy about trump either? No. It just is what it is. The democrat party knew that pushing for Biden last election had a chance for this to happen.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought what you were saying is that you can somehow magically know all possible realities for sure despite that being impossible. My bad.
It is an advantage useful when it’s not enough to win? Do you not remember the numbers at the time?! For all the pro genocide and ignoring of his base, going on TV and having a senior moment for an hour ended all discussion on the matter. The fact that the internal fighting in its aftermath is proof that Biden did not have the confidence of his base. Harris is the current vice president, if you wanted an incumbent advantage that it’s what you had. And to argue that “burden would have won i told you so!” Is to argue from ignorance. You don’t know, and all evidence pointed to it not being so.
What i do know is that confidence in Biden was in the shitter. Wile republicans have never had any consideration about trumps mental decline as long as he was their monster, left wing voters are fractional based on attaining left ideals, of which Biden did not achieve. Add on to that where Biden was in Obvious decline, it’s no wonder that there was infighting on his viability. The fact that there was even a discussion means that the incumbency was worth fuck and all.
You should be angry but all evidence points to your “i told you so!” Is incorrect. Trump won the popular vote, end of.
Hey, I know you don’t know me, but I want you to know that depriving us of what you can bring will only make it worse. I’ve found that I can keep myself alive by living for the people around me. Right now what’s keeping me going is touching base with everyone, seeing how they’re doing, asking them if they’ve made any plans, and telling them about my plans to move forward. Direct action just got a whole lot harder and more dangerous, but giving up now only makes the problem worse. One foot in front of the other, until you get the rhythm, Then follow it. I believe in you.
If you’re able to move and see a Dr you’re doing better than most.
I was suicidal for other reasons and found my way out of the hole I dug myself in. I honestly hope you can too. It sounds like you’re a passionate person and you can place that passion somewhere that does good for the world.
It really isn’t leftists’ fault, though. Trump easily won the popular vote and flipped georgia, pennsylvania, and wisconsin from their dem vote in 2020. Low voter turnout/voter suppression are the real culprits - along with dems failing to do almost any of the things that could’ve changed this outcome. Leftist memes did not lose dems the election. Voter apathy and the sheer popularity of fascism did.
I’m not necessarily attributing blame here, but I’m pretty sure that OP is suggesting that leftist memes helped lead to this apathy. Say what you will, Trump voters were excited for their candidate… somehow, despite the list of reasons not to being far too long to be listed here. But many on the left either were just lukewarm on her, just considered her the lesser of two evils, or were protest voting third party or abstaining for one reason or another, mostly over Palestine. And there were memes galore to make clear to everyone what the general mood was. It doesn’t exactly inspire enthusiasm to those that need that a lot of enthusiasm to even bother (those people are frustrating, btw). I don’t know how much it actually contributed to or propogated the apathy versus how much it just reflected the apathy already there, but a case could be made either way.
They didn’t lead to the apathy - they pointed out the existing apathy would cost Dems the election. It’s like saying the person who said you need to wear a seatbelt caused the wreck.
You’re exactly right about people being excited for Trump and lukewarm on Harris, but that’s entirely on the Democrats for picking the platform and strategy that lost to Trump in 2016.
Harris had a notable and surprising lead when they announced Biden was out - then they changed nothing else. People didn’t just not like the candidate, they didn’t like the policies. They only changed the candidate and thought Trump was a big enough cudgel to bully people into voting even though that demonstrably doesn’t work.
Why do you think the turnout was so low? Millions of idiots were pressuring people to withhold their vote over Palestine in a colossal self-fuck. That is if you assume these people spreading that are really that stupid. Some were, but I think a large percentage were paid trolls. And their campaigning worked. Russia owns the United States now
It can’t possibly be because that’s a real concern. They had to be paid actors. You sound like Infowars after a school shooting.
yeah because cambridge analytica was also a hoax
Are you seriously comparing a fucking genocide to an info op?
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You still don’t get it do you? Blaming the people you need to persuade is not a winning strategy. They aren’t going to magically like you suddenly.
Holding people accountable for their actions that affect you is an entirely just and necessary thing to do.
I hold the Democratic party entirely responsible for trying to win by stealing Trump’s base instead of working with the left. The voters cannot themselves be to blame in this kind of election because that assumption destroys democracy. If I must vote for one of two bad candidates then the parties are never pressured to even pretend they represent the people. This isn’t hard, 19 year old college freshmen learn this stuff.
Yes, and the people at fault are the democratic party, their consultants, and people like tracy who can’t get over their vaunted ‘lesser evil!’ world view to realize just how fucking toxic as individuals they are. we’re engaging because tracy needs the release and others need to see how toxic it is.
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Another contributor to low turnout was massive voter suppression. It’d be interesting to see that quantified. Hundreds of thousands of voters were being purged in each of several states. The single-issue Gaza vote was lost in the noise of those gross examples of electoral manipulation.
I’m sure you’re right. It’s hard to know where to focus the blame most, but I am livid that this country is worse than my worst fears. On a certain level I am losing any desire to even care specifically how/why. I wouldn’t have considered not voting before this but now I honestly am 99.9% of the way to saying fuck it all.
I distinctly remember hearing about unusually high voter turnout.
It just wasn’t blue voters.
If Harris had campaigned on the issues she would have had so many Republican women jump ship. Just look at how many of them voted for abortion in Missouri.
There’s a million reasons people have given me for voting Trump, none of them rational. But the classic tropes of fear and disgust won out again. I’m old enough to remember the 2004 election, then it was gay people. Now it’s trans people and dark-skinned migrants. I really didn’t think those old tropes would work this time, but it just keeps working. Americans will just keep falling for it, apparently.
While it’s depressing that we’re reminded of the power of dumb at hateful people yet again, we should remember that nothing actually changed in that regard this election. We’re just discovering what’s always been there beneath the surface. I don’t think the malaise we’re feeling now is so much about what Trump will do - sure scores of people will die from bad policy, but that’s nothing new. Rather, we’re upset about what this reveals about ourselves. But we shouldn’t be upset about the act of revelation, because it tells us what we need to fix.
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It wasn’t ‘voter apathy’ it was a misplaced sense of voter moral superiority. It’s the thing leftist rhetoric has been weak to for a very long time. That love of withholding support except for perfection. The idea that compromise or chosing a lesser evil from two bad options dirties you. It doesn’t matter what you lost if you personally took “the high ground”.
This cutting of our noses to spite our face was exploited all to shit this election. They lulled people by appealing to the same zeal of righteousness that they know divides us fundamentally knowing that when push comes to shove people will turn up their noses on principle of not being personally catered to and forget that their ability to help at all is contingent on the freedoms that one party was explicitly putting on the chopping block.
It will be a while before people can admit that they were duped and there’s a lot of fault to go around, particularly in those funded astroturf campaigns designed to bait the hook… The right have been watching us for the past decade they knew how to divide us and it is on US that so many of us fell for it.
Dude, wow okay. let me inform you how voting works.
now here is the thing. harris ‘grand idea’ was a fucking genocide, and no support for labor. this isn’t about fucking moral superiority. its about a complete fucking lack of morals by harris across the board.
If you walk into a fucking room of people and tell them to ‘join you for some genocide’ dear fucking god do I hope they tell you to fuck right off. Now unfortunately 30% of the population is down for genocide. another 30% are willing to go along with it if you threaten them enough (or won’t impact them personally). and a final 30% is like ‘lulz newp’. Why the democrats thought it would be good policy to try to out compete genocidal fucks at their own game for votes is beyond me.
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Do you remember the number on this “incumbent advantage”? The establishment didn’t just switch out Biden on a whim. Biden literally fucked his chances at winning at the debate. You are barking up the wrong tree
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Biden was never going to win. He is actively losing his marbles. It was so painfully obvious even Democrats had to accept it.
Yes incumbent advantage is real, but Biden had so many other disadvantages that he’d have never won.
It sucks but it is what it is.
And yet now everyone has to pretend that a single coherent thought comes out of Trumps mouth in any given 5 minutes.
Did I say I’m happy about trump either? No. It just is what it is. The democrat party knew that pushing for Biden last election had a chance for this to happen.
Can I borrow your crystal ball sometime?
Sure, it makes for a great lens. You can use it to read the writing on the wall.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought what you were saying is that you can somehow magically know all possible realities for sure despite that being impossible. My bad.
Oh you mean like the guy he was replying to?
It is an advantage useful when it’s not enough to win? Do you not remember the numbers at the time?! For all the pro genocide and ignoring of his base, going on TV and having a senior moment for an hour ended all discussion on the matter. The fact that the internal fighting in its aftermath is proof that Biden did not have the confidence of his base. Harris is the current vice president, if you wanted an incumbent advantage that it’s what you had. And to argue that “burden would have won i told you so!” Is to argue from ignorance. You don’t know, and all evidence pointed to it not being so.
I mean, if they really really really wanted that incumbent advantage, Biden could have stepped out.
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What i do know is that confidence in Biden was in the shitter. Wile republicans have never had any consideration about trumps mental decline as long as he was their monster, left wing voters are fractional based on attaining left ideals, of which Biden did not achieve. Add on to that where Biden was in Obvious decline, it’s no wonder that there was infighting on his viability. The fact that there was even a discussion means that the incumbency was worth fuck and all.
You should be angry but all evidence points to your “i told you so!” Is incorrect. Trump won the popular vote, end of.
Hey, I know you don’t know me, but I want you to know that depriving us of what you can bring will only make it worse. I’ve found that I can keep myself alive by living for the people around me. Right now what’s keeping me going is touching base with everyone, seeing how they’re doing, asking them if they’ve made any plans, and telling them about my plans to move forward. Direct action just got a whole lot harder and more dangerous, but giving up now only makes the problem worse. One foot in front of the other, until you get the rhythm, Then follow it. I believe in you.
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If you’re able to move and see a Dr you’re doing better than most.
I was suicidal for other reasons and found my way out of the hole I dug myself in. I honestly hope you can too. It sounds like you’re a passionate person and you can place that passion somewhere that does good for the world.