• humbletightband@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    6 months ago

    But the times are not tougher by themselves, they become tougher because of capitalism itself. So it was Homelander all along

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        6 months ago

        Even checked Capitalism results in fascism, as Capitalism is entirely unsustainable and eventually results in the crisis that enables the rise of fascism.

        • samus12345@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Maybe so. Maybe capitalism can never remain checked because the temptation to acquire more wealth will always end up winning. You’d like to think that people are better than that, buuuuut…

          • kaffiene@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            Which system IS stable? AFAICT every system ever has allowed some people more power than others and those people cleave more power to themselves over time. This appears to be how most empires fall

            • samus12345@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              Good question! The oldest government still in operation appears to be San Marino, a tiny country near Italy, at around 415 years. Considering that even at a small size it’s only been around that long despite civilization being around 6000 years old, I think it’s safe to say we haven’t managed a system that has real staying power yet.

              • AbsentBird@lemm.ee
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                6 months ago

                There’s hunter-gatherer tribes that have been more or less stable for over a thousand years. It’s said that the Nez Perce have lived on the Columbia River for 11,500 years.

                • samus12345@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  Yeah, but for the purpose of looking at stable governments in cities, hunter-gather societies aren’t a helpful comparison.

                • kaffiene@lemmy.world
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                  6 months ago

                  Good points but my question is more about governments that work at the scale of a nation state.

            • samus12345@lemmy.world
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              6 months ago

              There are a lot of capitalist countries that haven’t collapsed yet. We’ll need longer than our lifetimes to see proof that it can never work.

              But I suspect that people in power just aren’t good enough to keep it from going bad eventually.

              • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                6 months ago

                There are a lot of capitalist countries that haven’t collapsed yet. We’ll need longer than our lifetimes to see proof that it can never work.

                It’s more that it’s unsustainable. Collapse can be delayed, but not outright prevented as long as the Tendency for the Rate of Profit to Fall exists.

                But I suspect that people in power just aren’t good enough to keep it from going bad eventually.

                It’s already “bad,” just constantly decaying.

              • daltotron@lemmy.ml
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                6 months ago

                I mean we do have a pretty good indication of a quite large impending factor which may cause a lot of them to collapse in the coming years, and which could collectively be attributed to them pretty well, especially within the last 50 years.

  • Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works
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    6 months ago

    More like fascism is just what comes next after late stage capitalism if it makes it that far.

    Don’t worry, feudalism is still the end game.

  • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    Also a result of the inevitable decline of Capitalism and Imperialism, which is what we are seeing in America, a desparate and incorrect ploy to “turn the clock back” to the “good old days.”

    It can’t be beaten electorally, it will remain until it either succeeds or Capitalism itself is escaped and we transition to Socialism.

  • greencactus@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Fun fact: The nowadays conservative (and IMO right leaning) German CDU has originally considered capitalism to be the reason for outbreak for WW2. They wanted to form a new Christian Socialism, which would’ve united Christian ideals with a socialistic (not marxistic) economy. The so-called Kölner Erklärung was written in 1945 as a basic idea for where Germany should head from perspective of the CDU.

    These ideas didn’t last for long and got replaced by a conservative fiscal policy. But it is good to keep in mind that even in the CDU there were people who recognized that capitalism ultimately has a strong tendency to fuel fascism. In Nazi Germany, the main capitalists worked closely with the NSDAP - Krupp, Bosch, Hugo Boss (who famously designed the Nazi uniforms), Volkswagen were all lead by rich capitalists who saw (and gained) profit by the actions of the Nazis. It makes me sad that even the SPD, the so-called Social Democratic Party, long forgot what it means to fight for socialism and equality, and instead embraces neoliberalism with a touch of social politics.

    • ours@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      It makes so much more fundamental sense for the followers of Jesus to embrace socialist values as opposed to the tendency of Christians to follow both conservative and capitalistic politics.

      I’m an atheist but I was raised Christian Catholic and the stark contrast between the religious texts and parables with the actions of the average Christian or the Church was a great contributor to my rejection of religion. I still see value in some of the teachings (be nice to others, people before material things) and always took them closer to socialism values than the Supply Side Jesus right-leaning Christians adopted.

      • CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works
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        6 months ago

        Same. I always wondered how ideas like giving what you can, loving thy neighbour, and forgiveness to the extreme somehow results in Supply Side Jesus, “Protestant work ethic”, jail time for addictions, “law and order” politics, etc…

        These people have strayed so far from the teachings and I’m not sure how they can claim to follow them and then blame homeless people for being homeless.

        • ours@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          Exactly, like all religions anybody can dig into the texts and find a justification for their personal and political views but the Jesus I was brought up with, while I don’t believe he existed, had some pretty decent key points (forgiveness, love, sharing, empathy, charity…). These contrast strongly with the judgemental, conservative, nationalist, racist “Christians”.

          They would probably have hung this “rebellious, commie jew” themselves today if their much-awaited second coming had taken place.

  • doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    6 months ago

    I actually watches the first season of the boys recently. Killer show. Its stunning that any real person could have ever looked up to Homelander in any capacity.

  • MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Dam, i fully slept on The Boys. Thoughts its just a Watchmen ‘supers in real life’ rip off. First season on par with Breaking Bad for me

    • maegul (he/they)@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      It’s brilliant IMO (I haven’t seen the latest season but the one before … season 3 did feel like it was losing its way a bit).

      The thing with mainstream super hero stuff is that it seems to very much about supporting the status quo without really examining it. Generally, the MCU has been pretty guilty of this AFAICT. It’s also why Winter Soldier is probably the best MCU film IMO … Captain America becomes “the enemy” by standing up for his principles and destroys shield.

      The Boys is about examining the status quo and so stands out massively compared to all of the other mainstream superhero stuff.

    • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml
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      6 months ago

      It’s just too fucking dark for me. I don’t dislike a gritty show necessarily but I couldn’t make it through more than the first few episodes. It seemed good, but damn I have plenty of problems and shittiness in my real life, I like my entertainment to make me feel better, not worse. 😀

      • Eylrid@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Same. I like dark stories as much as the next person, but it hit way too close to home with real world politics for me.

  • kingthrillgore@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    “Who are you?”

    “I’m you if Batman didn’t have a ring what makes you a removed ass”

  • comfy@lemmy.ml
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    6 months ago

    Surely it was a tough pick between using Superman or Captain America in the top panel.

  • Maiznieks@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    Russia has had a tough ride since 90ties of the last century which is pretty much explained by this.

      • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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        6 months ago

        There was a drastic drop in life expectancy, housing rates, lots of starvation and excess deaths, and drops in literacy rates and so forth following the collapse of the USSR. The rise of the USSR was a drastic improvement upon Tsarism, and the fall of the USSR was a drastic decrease.

        The USSR absolutely had its own set of issues, but the collapse of the USSR in the early 90s represented a massive setback that only recently the Russian Federation has begun to overtake, metric-wise.

        • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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          6 months ago

          1924 is when Stalin took power, not when the USSR was founded. Put I guess it’s true that he improved the situation in Russia with imperialism to it’s neighbors so technically for Russia itself it was a pretty good ride still.

          • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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            6 months ago

            I’m aware, I’m familiar with the history of the USSR. Life expectancy rose gradually throughout the history of the USSR as it industrialized, it didn’t just happen under Lenin and plummet under Stalin. Secondly, the USSR was not Imperialist in the sense of extraction, Russia didn’t have higher quality of life on the backs of other Soviet States, but was industrialized first and was a leading indicator overall.

            That’s not to say Stalin was some hero or something, or that there weren’t issues, but this gradual improvement was due to industrialization above all else.

            • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee
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              6 months ago

              Yea, industrialization improved things in like every country that did it but saying the USSR was not imperialist is wild to me. Resources from the annexed territories were being shipped to Russia on a regular basis, literally one of the reasons that made the Holodomor so deadly in Ukraine while Russia itself was mostly spared. Smuggling was insanely common here in the Baltics to ensure the locals could keep what they make and not suffer from famines as well.

    • minorkeys@lemmy.world
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      6 months ago

      I think it’s more that strong men leaders get backers when the majority want them. All kinds of leaders are out there at all times, people swap their support to whichever they feel like at any given time. So when times get tough, half the population will side with power concentration, primitive but simple leadership structures. The other half want power decentralized and consensus to be required, the agreement of the majority, not be left with obedience to authority, which eliminates the ability for consensus or agreement. Nobodies needs matter except the needs at the top.

      It’s actually probably absolutely necessary that the GOP see Trump as sharing their interests. If you had to give up your power, you’d want to give it to whoever shares the most do your interests, so their exercise of power is more likely to benefit you. You wouldn’t willingly give to to someone whose interests were furthest from yours. And what an irony that Trump has convinced them their interests align. If we could break that assumption, people would find it much harder to hand over their power. But since Trump literally doesn’t care if he collapses America, he’s willing to give them things they want, regardless of the wisdom of it.

      God the GOP are the fucking worst.

  • _bonbon_@lemm.ee
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    6 months ago

    Are there any examples of Open market capitalist countries becoming Fascist dictatorships?

  • saltesc@lemmy.world
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    6 months ago

    One’s an economic school of thought, the other a political one, so obviously you can have both at the same time or even working together. Coincidentally corporate business is mostly anti-fascist right now because social diversity and progressiveness is where the money’s at

    I can only guess you’ve used one of the words out of context. If it was fascism, I have nfi what the meme is trying to say by linking Superman to capitalism in the same way Homelander is easily linked with fascism.

    If the joke instead about fascism, then maybe something positive and relatable to it would make sense. Patriotism is what I think of since Superman loves America, but shows little concern for anyone else and this sentiment could start festering domestically, especially if the love for country becomes ultra-nationalistic.

    • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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      6 months ago

      There is a saying, something along the lines of ‘politics is the shadow that economics casts over society’. Now obviously there is no one to one correlation between a country’s economic and political systems, but rich people often respond to calls for economic reform by trying to make the public fight among themselves. Fascism is one possibility, ‘culture war’ is another, bread and circuses a third, and so on.

      • saltesc@lemmy.world
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        6 months ago

        Trying to think of that one time fascism was economically beneficial to capitalists… Nope. I can’t recall one.

        Edit: Oh, wait. If you were supplying a side against fascism, it’s always been very beneficial. I know that’s in contrast to the meme, but supports your point in a “round peg; square hole” kinda way.

          • saltesc@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            You…literally just linked a list of suppliers to a regime. Which, of course, had to exist in order for the regime to be sustained. Which of course lost supply as the sustainability diminished.

            Do you know how many companies were passive or against it? It’s a little more… Quite a bit more. Millions(?) more. You’ve essentially just tried to correlated registered businesses with the entire economic school of Capitalism. “If it’s a registered business, it’s Capitalism, huuur.”

            Come on, I can think of better counter-points than that.

            • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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              6 months ago

              Wait, did you think people were saying that the Nazis were for every Capitalist on the planet? No, we were talking about Nazi Germany and some Western companies.

              You’ve fundamentally misunderstood what everyone was talking about.

              • saltesc@lemmy.world
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                6 months ago

                Superman, Homelander, and fascism on the rise in the leading capitalism nation?

                What did you think it was about?

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
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                  6 months ago

                  Fascism has always been beneficial for Capitalists, because it was always extremely profitable, the entire point of fascism. Simple.

        • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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          6 months ago

          Trying to think of that one time fascism was economically beneficial to capitalists… Nope. I can’t recall one.

          Almost all fascist politicians were supported by local elites who thought they could control them. Sometimes they could; sometimes the fascists got too strong to be controlled.

          • saltesc@lemmy.world
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            6 months ago

            That’s the general recipe of ultra-nationalistic fascism, yes. You’re not making much of a point and you’re also disregarding all the other instances of fascism.

            A common thread being control, some times that can be through a local economical channel. That’s not immediately “Capitalism” and actually quite unrelated.

            • emergencyfood@sh.itjust.works
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              6 months ago

              All fascism is nationalist. There’s no ‘other instance’. And a common theme in the rise of fascism is a compromise between the rich (capitalists, local gentry, etc.) and the fascist organisation, where the former bankrolls the latter in return for maintaining their economic and social position / backdoor deals / protection. Further, this usually happens as a result of some marginalised group - factory workers, serfs, women, etc. getting too uppity.