I’ve run a small business for over 10 yeas. I use linux. I’m grateful to the community and I use FOSS where possible.
I have had some issues over the years, but have always been able to get around them (except CAD in 2013), but recently I’ve had issues with my government (UK). First they introduced ‘making tax digital’ and told me for years that I would have to buy windows only software (there was no legal option on linux until a few weeks before the deadline (https://www.comsci.co.uk/100PcVatFreeBridge saved the day). The UK Government didn’t create a free solution or any route to that as they don’t want the source to be open for making tax digital so accounting software companies have made a killing!
This week my internet banking stopped allowing payments, it no longer works in firefox (I’m guessing). On the telephone they asked me ‘what search engine I was using’+ and advised to use google.
What is the best UK business bank to use if you use linux to run a small business? Do I have to use Chrom(e)ium? Does anyone else use linux for business admin? Is anyone (Freesoftware foundation, etc) thinking about the creeping legislative changes that make it literally illegal to use FOSS and linux?
I wanna be an ally, but its so tiring.
+ browser ≠ search engine. Yes, I’m pedantic, at least I didn’t confuse them by saying ‘quant’ or ‘duck duck go’, OK!?
Hmm I didn’t know the UK was THIS bad.
I don’t know if the UK is worse than anywhere else (?)
Well it surely is much much worse than my country by the looks of it.
Which is?
In Sweden most government provided services are accessible through a web browser, but you need “BankID” which requires Android. Which is kind of Linux, though not fully FOSS.
Bad? It’s a couple of decisions made by organisations or politicians who are ignorant of free software alternatives and open standards.
Certainly better than the US’s tax system, where you have to pay to file your taxes or at the least, have to spend a lot of your time working out complex tax submissions each year.
In the UK, your income tax is automatically paid by your employer when you earn it. Unless you’re self employed - or doing your own business accounts like OP, you don’t have to submit any tax information, ever.
All these third world countries can’t compete with the powerhouse that is Brazil and its free, multiplataform tax system since the nineties.
Seriously though, it’s not a technological issue, it’s a political one.
Taxes are not the only things that matter, mister/miss. In the US you at least aren’t legally forced to use Windows and I’m not even talking about the fact that the US supports genocide. But who am I talking to? Americans are fully dead inside and won’t understand. There’s no way to revive them.
I’m not in the US - and who was talking about genocide? We’re talking about tax and it’s software here.
The original topic wasn’t about tax either.
Have u tried changing user agent? Get an add-on on Firefox with a similar name and change to chrome. The website will now think that u’r using Chrome. U could even change ur displayed OS if it has that big of a problem with Linux.
Firefox also has a built-in list of user agent overrides for websites that don’t work on Firefox for no reason.
You can create an issue here, and maybe they’ll fix it at some point. Not sure what the normal turnaround is for fixes like this though, could take a while.
You can see the list in
about:compatbtwThanks - I had not thought of this. I’ll give it a go… [edit: no dice :(] It works in chromium, so there is a solution… its just tiring to remember which browser to use for which site.
I gave up and used a Windows VM for such shenanigans. It’s hard when even the government doesn’t want to listen. This is a good project which bridges the gap -> https://github.com/Fmstrat/winapps.
First time hearing this. Is WinApps stable? Does it consume too much resources?
Also, please feel free to answer if you aren’t based in the UK, I assume this isn’t a UK only problem, but I’m based here.
I think the key part here is that it’s a guess on your part whether using Firefox is the cause. Do you get any specific error when using the website? Or does something just “not work”, such as you click a button and it does nothing?
Also, I’ve run into stuff like this before, and my best bet has been to be flexible about using other browsers to work around issues. I would suggest testing the banking website with Chromium (or even Chrome). If it works, file a bug with Mozilla (https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/file-bug-report-or-feature-request-mozilla) and just use Chromium/Chrome for only that website until the bug is fixed.
This will allow you to still do business, while still participating in open source via a helpful bug report that could end up benefitting others as well.
It works on chromium, not firefox. I guess I should be more flexible. It is likely that the bug is in the bank’s site, so I wasn’t sure about putting in a bug report. The website pauses on the ‘loading’ animated icon, when you try to navigate away, it tells you ‘Your session has expired’. It hasn’t been fixed by changing the user-agent (assuming I got it right). I don’t know if the bank would give them a dummy account for testing, but I’ll file a report anyway.
If it works on chromium I’d consider that even if it is a quirk on the bank website, chromium is handling it cleanly and allowing you to use the site. That’s something we probably want incorporated in Firefox. I’d encourage submitting the bug report to Mozilla, and don’t assume too much about what they can/cannot do!
Do you use an ad blocker or privacy extension? I’ll just throw out there I don’t think it’s right, but I’ve had to disable adblock to get some banking site stuff to work
My bank blocked “firefox” at some point on debian. Then it was because the version of firefox presented it self to be too old (because debian) to the bank so they blocked me. Firefox was up to date on security pathes, but the bank did not understand that and blocked.
I remember the good old times when testers has to check if their sites work on Chrome/Firefox/Opera/Safari/Edge.
Slam an Edge user agent up in there.
When you say it doesn’t work in Firefox, does it not work in Firefox or does it say it doesn’t work in Firefox? In the later case and sometimes in both, I have found that just changing the user agent string to something chrome based is sufficient to get it working again.
Always use a separate Firefox profile for banking needs.
Or Firefox Containers?
Firefox Containers are for Cookies and Storage separation. Profile, on the other hand, is a COMPLETE separation in all aspects of Firefox’s user data, setup , add-ons.
I’ve been Linux in the desktop for years. You really don’t have any choice other than to be a little bit flexible.
More times than not it turns out to be a plugin that screws over the site. Here’s my general path:
Won’t load in Firefox? Disable privacy badger and ublock origin
Still won’t load? Try it in a private window with no extensions loaded
Still won’t load? Move over to brave.
Still won’t work? Disable Shields
Still won’t work? Straight to a vanilla copy of edge, (a vanilla copy of Vivaldi would also be reasonable)
Just last night I ran into a problem with my ADP work portal. Things worked fine for ages, All of a sudden my password wouldn’t work. I went into private mode My password now works but loading the actual page netted me a blank page
I opened it up in brave and it just worked outright.
I’ve found HSBC to be ok using Firefox on Linux. I don’t know if they have integrations with any accounting software, but the web access works well, and you can export your transactions for processing locally.
ETA: I’ve run small business accounting on Gnucash, I found the learning curve a bit steep, but once you ‘get it’ it’s handy.
This is interesting, and meets my needs. I tried Gnucash, but the double entry bookkeeping was a bit to advanced for my small-business’/smooth-brain needs (amortising my stock of utility bills seemed a bit excessive! - though I am sure I was doing it wrong)
Damn, you got a lot of replies and no one said to just use paper forms.
Idk if the uk allows it still, it’d be surprising if it didn’t though.
Surprise! :D The project was called ‘making tax digital’ it was expressly to remove paper forms for VAT.
Oh wow.
Are accounting firms subject to the same requirement as businesses that file themselves? It almost sounds like it’d be a good idea to have someone do all the filing for you so that when there’s a leak and you’re damaged by it you have legal recourse…
I think what you can do is just get a separate computer running Windows for all your business stuff and business stuff only. I’d also recommend ALWAYS using a VPN on it if legally possible.
That is exactly what he doesn’t want to do and why he is using Linux.
The point of getting a separate device is similar to using a VPN - to use proprietary and invasive software without getting the personal data stored on the main devices sent to third parties. The business device still can send some data (like WiFi connection info, approximate location and microphone recordings) but the personal data should be safe. It may not be a viable option for very high threat models though since Windows can have backdoors that the government might use to inject malware into all the devices connected to the same network.
I’m not worried about privacy, it’s a business not a person. If the government want to look through my business’ data, they just need to arrange an audit. I like good security, but am a small target.
It’s about free as in freedom.
My worry is that if linux is allowed to become just a hackintosh of steamdeck, rather than an actual operating system. It will go the way of hackintosh.
[edit: apostrophe, edit2: added last paragraph]
That only works if the main reason someone uses Linux is personal privacy.
Aren’t we talking about privacy and freedom as the main concerns here?
They are major concerns, but they aren’t the only reasons people would use Linux, and also not everyone who uses Linux does it for these reasons. For example, while I care about them, my most important reason for using it is utility features such as my tiling WM.
I went a step further and am paying an accountant to handle this mess, using my favourite libre email client to contact her. I know, it’s a privileged position.
