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I’m not one of the maniacs making threats of any kind, but honestly it really seems like death threats are the only thing that gets any attention anymore, so I can understand why it’s done…
Is “eat the rich” not a death threat in its own right?
It is, and here’s the thing: All of society, laws, and legal recourses ultimately just boil down to “might makes right, but with extra steps.” We all love to act like this isn’t the case in a civilized society, but it is. That might usually rests with the police, the military, some governmental organization, or some megacorporation. Violence both literal and metaphorical is inflicted on the common person continually by those at the top. Who are the police after all? Just guys with guns. Who are judges and politicians? Just guys with access to the police. Who are megacorporations? Just guys with access to judges and politicians, and so on down the line. So when someone says they have the law on their side, and you don’t, what they’re really implying is that they can call the guys with guns, who if you don’t do what they say (no matter how ridiculous) can literally kill you. And we treat this as normal and proper and reasonable, because we’re stupid.
These motherfuckers want to act like their only their violence or threat of violence is justified, and that’s it’s a one way street.
Well, it ain’t. Nobody’s invulnerable.
Maybe it’s “just” video games. (Or “just” a cell phone app, or “just” a predatory subscription, or “just” an apartment with exorbitant rent, or whatever.) But big corporations are fucking with people’s livelihoods, here. There’s a reason we colloquially call such a thing “a living.” These are assholes taking food off of someone’s table, just for greed, just because they can, because they think they’ve above reproach. Because the whole teetering facade is lopsided. It doesn’t matter who the fuck they are at that point.
Yeah, this is basically why I’m not buying these arguments against a struggle of any kind, just because methods of it are illegal.
Illegality =/= your cause or methods are wrong
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Yeah, it’s not like voicing disagreement and concerns amicably is listened to. It’s not like these executives negotiate with the users before making decisions that can ruin their livelihoods. As the avenues for civilized protest close, as people are left powerless towards the decisions of the wealthy, what else can they be expected to do?
It might seem much when it comes to games, but it’s also a matter of worker’s rights. Sometimes it seems like people today are a bit too passive and overly concerned with civility as their rights are undermined. Comes to mind the other news about the Australian CEO saying that he thinks more people should be unemployed and feel pain to be reminded who they work for. What is the appropriate response to that?
Is “eat the rich” not a death threat in its own right?
Maybe it is but I always took it as “let’s take their money and redistribute the wealth.”
Frankly that doesn’t sound honest. Especially when picture of guillotines are sent by the same crowd. Even more considering that wealthy people are not going to volunteer their wealth through reasonable debate.
That’s the idea. Here’s hoping they get it.
Death threats are not OK, but this can destroy years of work for people, and it can threaten their livelihood. I’m guessing this has pushed some people into a sense of desperation. And these threats are acts of desperation, not threats that have a huge chance of being carried out.
John Riccitiello needs to be fired, if he isn’t Unity deserves bankruptcy for this move.
I’d be willing to bet it wasn’t developers sending death threats but “gamers.”
Why would they do that? They are not directly impacted by this. Developers losing years of work have much more reason to be super angry.
Depending how it’s implemented, gamers are absolutely impacted by it.
Some of the chatter is that even already-released games would be subject to this change, meaning a lot of devs might pull their backlog to avoid going broke on a game they put out years ago and is now free (or heavily reduced). Or games that have always been free, now the dev has to choose if they want to charge for a historically free game or pull it completely.
This is dev hostile, but it’s also consumer hostile.
Maybe you know, but what happens if a dev pulls a game and someone still has the installer and installs the game? Are they going to charge for that still? It makes not sense to me.
Unity clearly didn’t think this part through- probably because they never intended it to do anything but rake in money as the company dies. They never had a real way of precisely tracking downloads, but they want all the info so they can decide how much to charge. So would they charge on a local installer? Almost certainly if they could find out it was used.
This is dev hostile, but it’s also consumer hostile.
I 100% agree on this, I’ve even made a post about it, where I mention for instance that this will cause a need for more DRM where we need less.
I’m not saying it isn’t gamers, but unlike you, I find it unlikely. You may be right IDK.
I never said I found either option likely, I was only addressing the “this doesn’t impact gamers” bit.
I wrote DIRECTLY, of course they are impacted, but 99% don’t know that, of the remaining 1% 99% don’t care.
While for developers 100% both know and care.
Ever been in a game forum where the players pretty much worship the developers as if they were gods? It’s way too common. Those people can get crazy protective when they make it part of their identity.
Nope, but I can imagine that to some degree.
Despite that, I doubt gamers are very involved in payment methods of game engines, or even know which game engine their games are running on.
So unless some VERY popular game developers have been out saying expansions for their favorite games will not be released because of this, I don’t see the mechanics for what you claim working at this point.
Actually, they are talking about canceling silk song, and expansion for hollow Knight that has been in development for ages now, simply because they are looking at the possibility that the game will have to be delisted in order to avoid bankrupting the developer
There already Indie devs that are talking about delisting their games in order to avoid paying Unity fees they can’t afford.
This contract changes criminal, especially since it punishes the developer for no fault of its own. Sometimes I have to reinstall a game multiple times in order to figure out why it suddenly doesn’t work. I’m not the only one, that’s going to rack up fast.
And if you think review bombing is bad now? I imagine people buying the game not to leave a negative review, but you run a script that continuously reinstalls and uninstall the game.
They could bankrupt any developer they wanted to. Hell, it might not even be the gamers, if a company with a game on Unity doesn’t want to make it epic exclusive, Tim Sweeney has the choice to just continuously reinstall that game in order to sink any company that doesn’t play ball
Which game devs are they? I want to know which games I should buy now before it’s too late?
See my other comments, it was neither. It was a single employee at their company. Not sure how long that’ll stay true though, especially when it comes out that he made it seem like there were death threats being sent to him when it was a single employee making threats. Probably just so he could close the office.
Oh I’m willing to bet that Disney and Nintendo are getting their most expensive lawyers. Keep in mind, there are a lot of Marvel and Star Wars games out there, the mouse doesn’t like to share his cheese.
There aren’t a lot of Unity Disney games out their, I would struggle to name any. And there definitely aren’t any Nintendo ones.
Actually some of the newer Pokemon games are in Unity, and Disney has a lot of Marvel phone games in Unity
Unity is actually quite a popular engine for a lot of games both 3D and 2D and on multiple different platforms. It’s very popular among indie developers, though there are actually quite a few games from Big publishers that are released under unity as well.
it’s just edgy teens saying that they’re gonna go murder them, it’s not really going to happen but they have to take safety precautions
You have to take those seriously unfortunately.
still stupid and those people should end up in jail for some time.
Not even, it was a single employee (probably for reasons not even related to this change) and CEO used that as an excuse to close for the day and probably to make people feel pity for him and therefore more likely to give him a pass for these awful decisions.
Which is why he probably used it as an excuse to close the office, when the only known death threat to occur was from one of his employees.
I don’t know who that employee is and I don’t really care point is he’s using that basically to get pity from other people and distract from the bad things that his company is doing right now.
No need for death threats. Unity already committed suicide.
I imagine this policy will quietly be pulled with a statement about how due to “not expecting how unpopular the decision was”
As soon as they get a subpoena from… every AAA developer.
This would include Warner bros, as they own a video game Studio, in fact I believe Mortal Kombat 1 uses unity, and it’s supposed to be what gets their Christmas bonus this year. They would be fools to not already have their people on the case.
I hope so, but frankly we’ll just have to see. The people with the money and power usually win.
What a grade A burn.
Whatcha wanna bet there aren’t any death threats? Seems to be a go to for “we’re assholes, but look at these imaginary assholes instead!”
Don’t underestimate that shit. I’ve personally got death threats before. People are dumb as fuck. I’ve seen people actually follow through. Life is fucked up. Everyone’s batshit these days.
I don’t say that in Support of unity though.
You’ve seen people follow through on death threats?
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I was thinking this. A way to demonize the counter movement
Hmm seems like we called it:
I don’t doubt for a second they are real. There are some really scary sycophantic gamers out there.
Talk about blowing shit out of proportion. People need to realize that making death threats is a good way to make the bad guys look like the good guys.
Which is probably why the CEO made it up using the single death threat from an employee as an excuse to close the company for the day and probably also get pity from people for it (see here for more details).
I bet it probably won’t stay that way though, he’ll probably realize people are onto his lies and make some death threats from sock-puppet accounts and claim “No 4 reAl pEopLe arE sENdiNg m3 deAth tHreAts” I wouldn’t put it past him if people don’t keep falling for the current one, and if people keep the heat on him for his current bad decisions.
So, the leadership of Unity is a complete piece of shit, but death threats (or really, any other threat of violence) are just straight up idiotic. It’s a game engine company. There are much more fun and interesting (and, you know, legal) ways to kill the company in a commercial sense.
I feel bad for the regular workers there who can’t choose the direction of the company and need that job to live.
But frankly if they were all directed just to the CEO, I couldn’t be less bothered. Wealthy assholes don’t have empathy, don’t listen to reasons, aren’t bound by rules. Even lawsuits today are decided more by who has the most money than who is in the right. Maybe it’s not so bad if folks put some fear in him, specifically.
Sure, there are more worthy causes to direct that sort of outrage to. Then again there’s the livelihood of a large number of smaller creators to consider. This isn’t just about a fictional thing not being the way someone wanted.
Hey! Don’t threaten people! Don’t hurt anyone! Just move to Godot. That’s it. Abandon ship, peacefully. These people care more about money than employee lives anyway.
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The overreaction to online death threats is so stupid. An anonymous 0 follower Twitter account allows organizations and people to instantly turn the PR situation around and become the victims and act like they are personally being hunted down by Mossad.
Death threats are the background noise of the internet, always have been. It’s just part of the PR manual now.
I remember someone telling me they were going to hunt me down and kill me on StarCraft back in like 2001. Shit hasn’t changed
I’ve almost found you, I’ve narrowed your location down to earth. Maybe in another 20 years, I’ll get a hemisphere.
To be fair, you are a ghost haunting a computer and have been since the year 2001
I am usually against such and still am, you should never send anyone deaf that’s, that is a felonious offense.
That said I don’t feel sorry for the victim. You can’t blackmail every game developer in the world simultaneously and expect nothing to happen.
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I’m torn, they’re people I don’t want workers harmed but I think more harm needs to come to C suites that just get greedy
When you call for violent threats you give ammo to the very groups that you wish to inflict harm upon for the masses to side with them
Accountability for CEO actions needs to be done financially. It needs to first and foremost affect shareholders - because that’s the only point for a public company to exist - and then after that it needs to personally penalize CEOs.
If you just target the figurehead of a company the owners won’t really be affected. You need to get them where it REALLY hurts - in the wallet. Only then will the dynamic change.
I’d say being dead really hurts them. Seriously though I get what you’re saying but it isn’t the reality and we know it. The rich take advantage of us, write the laws and just win overall.
I don’t see it as wrong for us to be violent toward these people
That 4chan sure is a wild dude.
Who is this four chin hacker you speak of?
The elite hacker known as 4chan
Known for posting My Mys of Peep the Toad.
Well known symbol of the alt right, peep the toad.
One of the issue here, and I am in absolutely no way defending Unity, is that legally an executive team works for the shareholders. They must ensure shareholder return no matter what as they are in the hook for it.
Unity’s biggest issue is that they like many successful companies stopped innovating and have moved from a company run by technical people to one run by sales and marketing. Sales and marketing only know how to extract more out of the product they already have and not how to improve the product to make more in honest ways. I would (have) gladly given Unity more money if they offered tools that truly helped me get to market faster as then my win would be their win. Instead their product has become stagnant, slower not faster since 2019 and more expensive. I am getting less for more and it is unacceptable. Unity is a horrible business partner. But I can see why as they are a sales and marketing company now. Steve Jobs says it best in this 2 minute video. He got it. Why are so many other not getting this?
is that legally an executive team works for the shareholders. They must ensure shareholder return no matter what as they are in the hook for it.
Not an excuse for just blatantly fucking over the customers. By implementing this hostile pricing model, company is alienating their customers. Big game studios may or may not cough up the money (or just delay that payments and take Unity to court if threatened). Small companies will just not pay up and either kill their projects or redesign from the ground up using a diff engine. Indie devs will likely just use another engine all together.
It’s a clear money grab that will backfire on them (losing trust of an already small community, and thus money will slowly stop rolling in). Fucked by the loss of sales. Fucking over the shareholders and creating new bag holders. Only winners here are the insiders that dumped their shares before announcement.
C-level execs at Unity smoking crack.
I agree. I think the issue is though that Unity (like many successful companies) have become their own worse enemies. Steve Jobs in this 2 mins video really explains it well. It will resonate what is going on at Unity and why they pulled such a stupid move. Wrong people are in charge and they have no means to make money honestly. Intellectually and creatively bankrupt. https://youtu.be/tGKsbt5wii0?si=v8_A2jW5uLewhbVS
That doesn’t mean making decisions that can ultimately hurt the business or their partners though. You can be greedy while not alienating the developers who drive the company’s profits. Decisions like these could make them lose millions or even go out of business.
This, like cancel culture, is a direct result of a justice system that pretty much never delivers justice to the victims of the rich and the powerful. Fixing that is the only thing that can stop this escalating cultural phenomenon.
Prosecute the shit out of the people making death threats because I don’t want to live in a society that’s cool with that either.
They already do that in most jurisdictions. Solve the root problem, and the surface problem will be fixed. Only fix the surface, and…well, it’s like weeding dandelions.
Somehow I get the feeling that this may not just be some unhinged internet troll throwing out online drivel from his mom’s basement. Unity’s pricing changes are posing an existential threat to smaller studios that meet the minimum income threshold and are placing the livelihoods of countless thousands of smaller game studio workers at stake. This is one of those changes that is going to impact whether you can continue to put food on the table.
John Riccitello has pissed off a lot of people with his disgusting levels of corporate greed, to the point where even the fourth circle of Hell may not be enough to punish his avarice once he pops his clogs. This move may even be worse than the crap Martin Shkreli pulled as a big pharma executive.
It’s bad, but it’s not “denying medical treatment to millions of sick people because they can’t pay” bad.
You are correct but in the opposite way, it seems it was a single employee at their company instead which the boss took and decided to say we’re getting death threats we’re going to close for the day, basically so he could go home early and people would feel bad for him and maybe not give him the flak that he deserves for such an awful decision that’s going to ruin the lives of smaller legitimate game developers who use unity.
Bruh it’s video games.
Bruh it’s people’s livelihoods.
Video game development is some of the worst paid tech sector jobs. Most developers will be able to move on to other work with relatively little interruption. It’s not ideal by any stretch but it’s not nearly on the same level as price gouging life saving pharmaceuticals
I don’t think devs that work for corporations really care about this change, if their group used Unity for some reason, they will just move on to their next job (and they’re the ones who are worst paid). Every indie dev or otherwise small dev company that has used Unity ever in it’s last ten years are now open to serious bad actors. A single person running a script can cost a dev hundreds of thousands of dollars on their own, whether a troll, just same guy pissed off for some reason or another, or even a competing dev. Hell, the one idiot living in his mother’s basement who sent death threats to Unity could also do it.
There is no “relatively little interruption”, as not only have people lost a lot of work on something they already paid for, they also have to remove all previous work they’ve made or published with the engine. It’s all susceptible to attack.
I agree it’s not on the same level as pharma scum, but saying “it’s just a video games” is much too far off the other end of the spectrum. At least Shkreli never managed to bankrupt people who had purchased anything (from him) in the past, or made them ‘regurgitate’ any benefits they had seen. Though I’m sure he’d have loved to.
People here are having a fuckin real one man.
This is a reminder that paying for a subscription means t&cs can be changed. You aren’t buying the engine etc just a license to access/use it for a period of time. Stop buying subscriptions!
Starting on January 1, developers will be charged a fee every time someone installs a game built in Unity after they reach certain revenue or install thresholds.
Obviously death threats are not ok, but for fucks sake, that change is insane. People may install games many times for many reasons, like switching drives, computer, OS or debugging, or corruption, or because they go back to it after not playing for a while.
How is it a good model to charge for repeated installs?
The decision sparked an astonishing backlash against Unity from across the gaming industry,
I bet, this will threaten some people on their livelihood, and if you are 90% finished on a project, it’s an insane change that will force you to switch to another engine, and could kill several projects.
Also as a user, this increases the need and amount of DRM mechanics, which we need less not more of.
I hope Unity will see a massive dive in customers on these policies. This is the kind of decision a company deserves bankruptcy for. And the CEO John Riccitiello deserves to be fired without benefits, and never hired as CEO again.
Edit PS:
The fee is up to $0.20, that’s steep and would mean the end of sub $10 games. This would hurt single and indie developers very much.
Luckily there are other engines, but Unity used to be among the good ones, now they’ve become an untrustworthy player, and that decreases competition for the entire field.
This is why we cannot let monopolies control the internet. Between twitter, reddit, and unity…
Unreal is much more entrenched than Unity is. At the AAA level, more places hire Unreal devs than Unity devs.
Unity is popular with indies because it’s dead simple (Unreal is a complex monster of an engine). But even Unreal doesn’t have a monopoly, between things like Source, Lumberyard (which is now FOSS and run by the Linux Foundation), etc. Not to mention you can always roll your own engine, which many places already have.
Well looking on the bright side. If death threats are starting to become common for the decisions that companies make then maybe WFH should also be common to protect employees. Can’t target employees at an empty office. The employees will have to be careful with social media however.
Personally I’m leaning more towards wanting to handle the death threats themselves.
Because ya know they would continue and now you have to arm your home because corporate greed
Hate this idea a lot
because or corporate greed
Corporate greed didn’t force these lunatics to have a gamer moment. There are ways to express displeasure that aren’t fucking death threats man.
Never once did I say corporate greed was a root cause , just the logical cause to the specific predicament I was speaking of.
No shit the terrorist is the source of the issue.
Well it seems like there we’re no death threats and the CEO largely made this up basically as an excuse to close the office.
For the record it was a single employee, there were no people sending them death threats.
I like how you included a Lemmy link to a Reddit thread. We’re gonna go full circle soon!
It would certainly be funny if someone linked this thread there.
