Force the meme, force it, force it… FORCE IT, DAMMIT
TURN LEFT MF’ERS!
If anyone wants to read Marx and understand what people mean exactly when they say workers create value, but are intimidated by Capital, I recommend starting with Wage Labor and Capital It’s a short, concise work by Marx specifically made for people without any background knowledge, unlike the Communist Manifesto.
remember that a company can do fine without a CEO. they can’t earn shit without workers.
Lemmy.ml enters the chat
So you’re saying you’d rather have Corporations and Billionaires continue to rob the working class?
I’d rather my worker’s rights didn’t come with a side of authoritarianism, but maybe that’s just me.
There is nothing authoritarian about workers owning the means of production, and for the record you live under the authority of Capital everyday.
You’ll be hard pressed to have your average person online casually use the Engelian type use of authority in authoritarian. The authority of work or authority of capital isn’t what they’re thinking. What is being imagined is almost always despotic tyranny.
Same thing with dictatorship. Most people will see that word and not associate it with a philosophical concept that includes a kind of rule by a class of citizens. They’ll use it synonymous to despotic tyranny.
Outside .ml at least, and especially on .world.
lemmy.ml is run by marxist-leninists (hence the .ml), which is an explicitly authoritarian ideology, and for the record trading one form of authoritarianism for another is not a worthwhile improvement.
Yes it is, because authoritarianism isn’t the end goal of ML. You readily acknowledge that we currently live under an authoritarian Capitalist system, can you tell me what the end goal of this system even is? I mean most workers are one missed paycheck away from homelessness. While vast sums of wealth are horded by the top 1% of society with the only end goal being more wealth being extracted from the working class, with no actual goal besides more profit and greater wealth. The end goal of Marxist-Leninism is a classes society where each person contributes what they can to society and receives back what they need to live a fulfilling life. They are extremely different.
Alright, firstly, I think you’re mistaking me as advocating for capitalism. I’m not. Whilst I’m not a fan of labels (they’re so easily contorted away from their original meanings by those seeking to undermine the ideologies they describe), I believe “Socialist” would reasonably describe my beliefs.
Secondly,
[…]authoritarianism isn’t the end goal of ML.
I think you’ve got that backwards. Marxism-Leninism starts with democratic means, then implements an authoritarian regime.
[…]can you tell me what the end goal of this system even is?
No, because there isn’t one. Capitalism actively punishes any form of forethought or long-term planning.
[…]The end goal of Marxist-Leninism is a classes society where each person contributes what they can to society and receives back what they need to live a fulfilling life. They are extremely different.
In theory, maybe. Just like in theory Capitalism self regulates through competitive pressures, or whatever nonsense it is that Capitalists spout.
I’m more concerned with actual effects, and empirical evidence than hypotheticals. Authoritarian regimes invariably turn oppressive, one way or another.
Capitalism does not self regulate, it consolidates. You should try reading Marx and Lenin’s actual writings, you seem very earnest and dont come off as a troll. There are multiple free audio recordings on YouTube of their works. Humanity must escape the all powerful driving forces of the profit motives Capitalism enforces or perish off the face of this earth. That process if it is to take place will appear extremely authoritarian to those who value profit above all else.
My respectfully-written comment got removed for no good cause by a Lemmy.ml moderator (an authority figure. D’oh!)
Remember: When you make fun of rednecks, you make fun of Dale.
I prefer hillbillies to rednecks. Rednecks have “back the blue” stickers while hillbillies take pot shots at any car with federal plates. Rednecks have lifted mall crawlers while hillbillies have an old busted Tacoma or Geo Metro. Rednecks have pets, hillbillies have raccoon and possum neighbors who hang out on their porch together.
Originally rednecks were the hillbillies that wore red neckerchiefs at the battle of Blair mountain. They fought against Pinkertons who were hired by the coal mines to break up the rednecks who had taken over the company property.
That may have changed since the blue collar comedy tour, but originally rednecks were the works seizing the means of production.
is there a difference between hillbillies and hill folk or is that just playing with words
And Dolly!
Dolly’s a hick. Rebecca’s the Redneck.
I’m not well versed enough in the various cousins of hillbillies to differentiate. /s
Who’s Rebecca?
The Miley Cyrus to Dolly’s Hannah Montana.
Raise hell. Praise Dale.
Hehe, I’m now only targeting jobs in the public sector, only way I can tell myself I’ll be happy getting out of bed in the morning
I’d rather have the workers own their own mean of living (house).
Yes, they’re not mutually exclusive. In fact owning the means of production would give the workers more financial stability and might lead to better home ownership.
Look around the status quo, how many people do you think can afford owning a home in the current situation?
No, it is an accurate thing to say. The fact that they didn’t find larger buildings in a settlement 10 thousand years old != Communism.
Communism is a decent “theory”, but that’s it. There hasn’t been a single attempt that wasn’t a wanna be dictator using it to seize power.
Yeah, you tell em!
What are you actually rambling about?
Regardless of whoever is voted in in my country (Canada) no politicians will be capable of facilitating a system where in the average working citizen can comfortably afford food and shelter.
No one can do this because there is overwhelming sentiment that any attempt to socialize necessities necessarily devolves into some kind of dictatorship.
If you want to suggest I should align myself with those people you’re going to have to do a little better than fear mongering because the writing is on the wall for how the country is going to end up if we keep following this route.
Being able to vote for one of three people who are either unwilling or unable to ensure some basic standard of living for me is pretty damn low on my hierarchy of needs.
I have no problem with socializing necessities, I find it amusing you went off on that unrelated tangent. Or that because I don’t think communism is a workable solution in the real world, that I think our current solutions are good.
