• LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    72
    arrow-down
    10
    ·
    6 months ago

    Yeah, down with the violence of the state! Although, to prevent bad actors and armed gangs we do need to have some sort of militia to protect the vulnerable from the greedy and cruel, human nature being what it is. And to prevent said militia from turning into the very thing it was supposed to protect us from, we need some sort of oversight, preferably from a democratically elected body, that tells the militia how to act and prevent them from violating the rights of the people. Oh wait I just reinvented violence of the state hehe.

    People in Somalia hearing that America has a 1.8% homelessness rate: “wow. Things are really just as bad over there.”

    • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Oh wait I just reinvented violence of the state hehe

      Except if the state is a community voting on how they should be policed, it isn’t really violence, is it?

      • Lotarion@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        6 months ago

        It is, that community will still have its marginalized groups that don’t get representation, and if anything, on a smaller scale it’s harder to form a group that would argue for necessary support for these people

        • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          6 months ago

          on a smaller scale it’s harder to form a group that would argue for necessary support for these people

          Idk, I kinda gotta disagree with that. Sure, mob violence against “undesirables” is always gonna be a problem, but communities know each other and are less likely to see different constituent groups as “outsiders”

          But in this specific example, where we are talking about “how do we decide who gets to use violence to keep the peace,” I think community-based democratic approaches are the best option.

          I also gotta disagree with

          that community will still have its marginalized groups that don’t get representation

          because by definition, if there is a marginalized group, they are not part of that community, and instead would form their own peacekeepers, like Guardian Angels.

          Obviously there is a benefit to federalization, I’m not arguing for nor do I support statelessness, but I think if democracy is emphasized from the ground up, those issues naturally tend to erode. Like I think the core problem which necessitates the federal government stepping in to ensure rights comes from a lack of democracy.

          • BottleOfAlkahest@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            6 months ago

            but communities know each other and are less likely to see different constituent groups as “outsiders”

            Tell that to every gay kid who grew up in a small rural Christian town…

            form their own peacekeepers

            So you expect every marginalized group to have their own personal cops? What about cross-sectional minorities. I don’t know how this works in your head but whatever you’re trying to say here is not translating well.

            • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              6 months ago

              So you expect every marginalized group to have their own personal cops?

              That is so clearly not what I’m saying, have a good day.

              • RedAggroBest@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                6 months ago

                So not the person you’re replying to but maybe instead of disengaging you reevaluate and rephrase because following along that’s sure as shit how I read it too and if that’s not your idea, what is?

      • LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        No it’s still definitely violence. Like, day to day, you try to use violence as little as possible but it is necessary for the laws of society to be backed by violence or people would ignore them. “Violence” doesn’t have to refer to killing people, it means the use of force against somebody without their consent (killing them, arresting them, or evicting/exiling them).

        The state we have right now in America and most of Europe is a community that decides how it wants to be policed (i.e. a democracy). Different jurisdictions make different policing decisions and have different outcomes, but they all follow that structure.

        The point I was making was that any attempt by anarchists to “overthrow the state” is silly because the “state” will return in a new form as power reconsolidates. If you consider a recognized federal or state government to be a “state” but an armed “anarchist” militia that runs a city to not be a state, that’s just a silly semantic argument.