The new standards are part of a broad push to get more Americans into electric vehicles, and reduce the environmental cost of driving.
The new standards are part of a broad push to get more Americans into electric vehicles, and reduce the environmental cost of driving.
I like electric vehicles, but when will the charging infrastructure get better? People without garages, ones that live in apartments and cities don’t have a convenient way to charge an electric vehicle. Most people living without a convenient way to charge their vehicle can’t afford an electric vehicle either. Hybrids are a lot easier to have now until the infrastructure gets better and they meet the 50mpg.
I see more and more stores and parking lots with EV parking/charging. Once it becomes a value-add for the average car user many apartments and shared parking spaces will start to include EV charging.
I don’t understand the comment arguing about upgrading power infrastructure. EVs don’t use more electricity to charge than say a fully electric water heater or any major appliances/tools that a maker has at their homes. Maybe in some more rural areas, but then again, those are the places that 3-phase 240v already exists to support farming/processing tools.
So I have an EV and solar. This gives me a very clear picture of my power usage. The EV adds a lot to my base power usage. And this is with a class 1 charger. A commercial class 2 charger is 4 times the power usage.
Orange is my power usage. Here is a day whew I came home at noon charged and then went out in the evening charging when I returned home. You can see how much it adds to the base draw. The spikes are my ac.
You can set it to trickle charge too though right?
Not really. Level 1 chargers are basically trickle chargers that run off a 120v outlet. Level 2 are 4 times the power running off 240v. Then you have the big fast chargers like the tesla super charger or chadmo.
Some poking around tells me that those are the maximums and good chargers can slow down. Furthermore cars can also just not take as much, like a low power appliance. So no you’re not forced to run it at full power and most days you’ll likely trickle charge overnight when electricity is the cheapest.
They slow shown when the vehicle gets close to max charge about 95%. But i’ve yet to see one where it has a setting you can change.
https://www.primecom.tech/products/50-amp-level-2-adjustable-ev-charger
That’s av level 2 charger.
You can change the amperage. That is actually one thing that makes people think they need a level 2 charger. Many charging cables that the dealership gives you default to 6A instead of 12A so people get like 16 miles charge overnight instead of over 30.
On a level 2 charger.
No. That is for level 1 chargers. Hyundai’s for instance default to 6A. People would be extremely pissed if their level 2 charger was defaulted to 6A since level 2 starts at 15A minimum.
You probably already know this but a level 2 charger is actually more efficient than a level 1 charger. It’s counter intuitive, but the reason is that the car being powered on to accept a charge runs at around 400w, so immediately 1/5 of your draw on the level 1 charger goes to just keeping the car on. It’s better to charge faster and let the car sleep longer if you can.
Yeah i’ve considered putting in a level 2 charger but my level 1 does the job so i haven’t bothered.
If you add thousands of electrical car chargers to the grid without upgrading the carrying capacity of the transmission lines and the power generating capacity of the power plants you’ll have more demand than what the utilities can supply.
You’re right. The EV companies know it, the power companies are acutely aware, governments at all levels are wrestling with it, and people in older homes with old wiring find out. Many of these groups (not the old wiring homeowners) are actually pretty excited about it. It means infrastructure upgrades, funding for cities, new power company jobs, and reinvestment in old worn out wir s everywhere.
Of course a shift in our oil dependent car shit hole system will require a similar scale shift in the energy infrastructure and that provides lots of opportunities.
I just went on a (2) 650 mile trip in my EV. It was fine. Took about 40 minutes longer than a gas vehicle. My car is an 800V vehicle with a great charging curve. Peaks at 240 KW and keep that high power for a lot of the curve.
You have to plan the trip out more because you don’t have a charger on every corner. Plugshare and ABRP help a lot. I had one issue with one charger. All others were plug and play. I wish we could move away from needing an app to charge.
Plugshare is great to plan things out for a long trip.
It isn’t even the charging infrastucture, it’s the distribution infra. There are a lot of upgrades from the main HV transmission lines to the last mile that need to be taken up by an order of magnitude if everyone starts to drive EVs.
I mean, it’s not impossible, but we’d better start now. Hell, AC use alone has brought places like Texas to its knees, now add EVs to that demand.
But it’s really not. Sure, we need serious upgrades to support the end result, but that’s not a place we suddenly get to. The same years/decades it takes to get there are what we have to grow infrastructure to match.
Distribution infrastructure handles current power needs and has some buffer built in to handle expected growth, so no big deal to install more chargers. Distribution infrastructure already reacts to growth - as it approaches capacity, utilities have incentive to build more. In that sense, this is just like all other power uses, and no big deal.
The real difference is the speed. Most people are expecting a faster transition to EVs and electrification than distribution growth has historically supported. While this does need to be addressed, there’s no reason for it to block buildout of chargers. It’s fine in the short term and in the long term, the biggest driver of increased transmission will be that demand.
Texas has those problems because they refuse to be a part of the national grid. EV charging/demand has little effect on a national sized grid. A fully electric water heater draws more power for long periods of time than any EV I am aware of. And those are everywhere in the US.
3-phase 240v service is already available in most modern homes and def available to most apartment complexes that have to supply power for hundreds of apartments.
240v is available in most homes but three phase is very rare for residential areas unless they are right next to an industrial zone.
Also a standard 4K heater runs about 3 hours a day and is usually the biggest power draw in a house depending on ac. That is about twice the draw of a class 1 home charger but the charger is probably being used for at least 6 hours for a daily driver. So it’s realistic to almost double a houses daily use with an EV.
EVs are great but we do need to upgrade the infrastructure to handle them. It’s still a lot less infrastructure then we use to distribute gasoline.
Not against EVs, because I would love to have a Hyundai N. and can’t wait for the EV revolution.
Now lets say the water heater defense is logical. Lets say we double the water heater load on the grid then.
Over the span of a few decades? Considering our capacity and throughout is increasing, I think that would be just fine.
There is no residential 3-phase anywhere that I’ve ever seen in North America. Maybe some place in Europe has it but not to my knowledge. I have seen people put it into something like an acreage or farm at great expense, but the idea that a house will have 3-phase by default is silly.
Maybe an apartment complex would have a 480 or 600V 3-phase high-leg supply, and I guess they could run that to the parking areas.
My uncle had 3-phase to his house for a heavy duty workshop, so it is possible, but I believe he had to pay a lot up front for it, significantly more than a single phase 240V hookup to a new house would have been.
Correct, like anything else if you have money you can have something custom done.
But no standard built house in the US has 3 phase power.
The move to EVs will not happen overnight. Expect it to take a few decades.
Texas’ (and California’s) issues are due to massive deregulation. Having extra capacity than is necessary esta into profits. So companies try to only have as much infrastructure as absolutely necessary. Additional AC use from “100 year” heatwaves (that are now happening every few years) were not really something they planned for and since they do not have the extra capacity, there are issues. They basically just have to properly model it…or have a more regulated market that makes sure there is additional capacity.
Landlords have even better govt incentives to install chargers than homeowners do. But why should they? It’s all down to motivation. Chargers still cost money and do not make a profit in themselves.
So how do we change that? The best way is for EVs to become ever more common. Landlords will install chargers when there’s enough demand, when it’s a competitive factor that makes a difference in whether they get tenants and how much they can charge. Currently there are only a few EVs out there so it doesn’t matter: landlords can just ignore them.
I wonder more about HOAs. I know they’re notoriously conservative/reactionary, but they are run by homeowners. They are closer to the people who want chargers. Why aren’t more of them installing chargers?
People without garages are fine if they are in a house. You just need an outlet within reach of your parking spot. Apartment dwellers do need a solution. Orange Charger sells level 1 and 2 chargers targeted toward apartment complexes. The systems cost $600 (level 1) or $750 (level 2) and they deal with the payments. The power company in my city has level 2 chargers throughout the city that are near apartment complexes.
As far as affordability, a used 3 year old Bolt can be bought for $16k. My state has added on another discount which brings the cost down another few thousand. Considering you will save about $1000 per year in gas costs, that’s a pretty good deal.