But of course we all know that the big manufacturers don’t do this not because they can’t but because they don’t want to. Planned obsolescence is still very much the name of the game, despite all the bullshit they spout about sustainability.
This article seems to omit the most important fact about headphones - how do they sound?
I love repairability and all, but it hardly matters if I don’t want to use them in the first place because they traded off too much quality for repairability.
I get what you’re saying, kind of…
But also, most modern earbuds usually sound quite good. Quality in general has become such a bizarre moving target, but here’s my take: We’ve become so used to constant improvement at the expense of satisfaction. I can barely notice the difference between 1080p and 4k. In my mind they’re both “good quality” and therefore I’m satisfied. Same goes for audio quality. I’ve used a few pairs of earbuds and they have sounded “good.”
As a culture, we need to stop with throwing away of perfectly good devices, because it’s extremely harmful to the planet’s occupants.
I’ve got the Soundcore Liberty Pro 2 and the Soundpeats H1. Neither of them come close to my HD598. What are the modem earbuds that sound good?
Truthear Nova IG
Yo that has a cable.
They were very smart to include it.
Yes but that makes it irrelevant to this comment thread. I’ll just wear my Sennheiser if I’m not worried about a cable.
I don’t think the writer has them on hand - this is a news article not a review.
Biggest complaints I’ve seen aren’t with sound quality, it’s with the noise cancelling being bad and the shape of the ear cups (the latter could have just been the shape of that user’s ears were the problem).
Mind you, these were reviews from Fairbud XLs released about a year ago. Things could have improved or gotten worse in that time, in any way. I can’t tell you for sure.
That said, I don’t think it makes sense to correlate focusing on repairability and quality of the product going down. I actually went out and found the reviews I’m referencing simply because the concept is absurd and I needed to know for sure.
Always keep in mind what you say online, Poe’s law is forever in effect.
Nah I wasn’t being sarcastic.
As I understand it, in engineering these types of mobile space constrained devices you essentially have a “budget” of space. Every hardware feature you include generally eats into this budget and if you want things to be user accessible or repairable it eats into this budget majorly.
That budget has to come from somewhere, so you can pay it with things like reducing the size of your battery or reducing the size of your drivers which in turn represents a reduction in sound quality.
Lol sound is not the selling point for any of those pods. Portability is the name of the game
They’re not gonna sound as good as real, over ear headphones. But there’s still a pretty wide sound quality spectrum for ear buds.
They’re almost all small. You’re a bit off center too.
They’re headphones. They sound ok at best.
What I don’t get is how no company seems to have worked out a legitimately good service and maintenance model for tech products. Fairphone hasn’t invented the wheel here. They’re going to make money on maintenance, parts and repair.
I would think there would be lowered costs involved in not having to push out a new product every 6 months and market it to customers who just bought something less than a year ago.
The business models of the current tech giants are very much based on planned obsolescence. Selling you a gadget for $ 1000 every two years will always be more profitable than selling you one very five years and doing service in the meantime.
The costs (overhead) are too high. They make more by simply manufacturing and selling.
Otherwise they’d be doing it.
I’m wondering about that. I’ve worked with several manufacturers, and their most profitable segment is parts. If you ever want to get the highest annual bonus, work for the parts devision.
Manufacturers of what? Selling and replacing car parts is a much different proposition than trying to replace semiconductors inside an earbud.
If the thing you’re selling costs $100,000, a separate parts stream makes sense, because the skilled labor that goes into replacing parts in a used device is worth the cost, compared to throwing it all away and starting with the new thing.
If the thing costs $100 and skilled worker time is at $50/hour, there’s just not much room for repairs to be cost effective, and repairs then become more of a reflection of one’s internal values around reducing waste or tinkering for fun than an economically feasible activity.
Anything that’s repairable is by component (main board, sound card, battery, camera, case, etc.). It was nice when we could swap batteries in cellphones. I have a Samsung S24 Ultra that came with a promise of 7 years of updates but the battery will degrade well before that and will cost $200-300 to pay a repair shop to replace because of the need of specialized tools. With my old Samsung Note 1, I could get a new battery for $20.
What? Why would the battery replacement cost $200-300? That seems a bit out there; authorised Apple resellers here replaces iPhone batteries for $80, that’s work and battery. That’s digestible at least, but still unreasonable in my opinion. I’d prefer to return to the days of feature phones where you could slip off the back and just slot in a new battery you picked up at the local electric parts store for $15-30.
But not for overall profit
Yes, for total corporate contribution margin.
It’s like they completely forgot that car dealerships make most of their money on maintenance and repair of vehicles that were sold.
Long term service is where the real money is.
There are indeed good aspects to this product.
But I won’t join the “Fairphone good” circle jerk and give them the free publicity, because just like Apple and Samsung, they removed the headphone jack from their phones soon before the launch of these headphones, in other words, artificially creating the problem and need to sell you their expensive solution.
You don’t get to ride the “we are pro customer!” free publicity train while also wanting to be the next Apple.
I understand people’s desire for a headphone port, but I really don’t understand the hate for devices that don’t have one. It would be one thing if they vendor-locked Bluetooth headphones so you had to use theirs, but it really just seems like a common sense move in a world where Bluetooth reigns supreme.
As long as a USB-C adapter still provides the same functionality, I really don’t see anyone’s choices being taken away. If it is one less physical port on the device that helps streamline the hardware, I’m all for it too.
And if it is a dealbreaker, you don’t have to buy a fairphone.
The problem is that there are fewer and fewer options with a headphone jack. My current phone has one and I use it all the time.
Bluetooth sucks for a variety of reasons, such as:
- not private
- needs to charge (I’ve had BT headphones die on road trips or whatever)
- not great sound quality
I also like using bluetooth headphones sometimes, but having an option is good, and I don’t want to bring a dongle around everywhere.
Most Bluetooth headphones are encrypted with a key shared only by the headphones and the host device. Not sure why you think they aren’t private. Maybe really cheap or really old headphones might not be so secure, but the vast majority of Bluetooth headphones in use today absolutely are.
Charging and audio quality are legitimate concerns, but again, you still have a headphone port… It’s just part of the USB-C port on the bottom of your phone. A $5 adapter completely absolves you of having to use Bluetooth.
I really don’t see how needing an adapter is a big enough deal to care about the way people here seem to.
They broadcast the ID and I think type of device. Yeah, the data sent between the devices is encrypted, but that’s not really an improvement over wired headphones since the signal is privacy by virtue of not being broadcast everywhere.
A $5 adapter
It’s not the price that’s the issue, but the convenience. I can’t change my phone while using the adapter, and I have to bring it along wherever I go. Why should I need an adapter for something that used to come standard?
What do I gain from not having a headphone jack? A slightly thinner phone due to slightly more space for the battery? My current phone has a headphone jack, and it’s no bigger than any other phone, and it has a larger battery than most. Better water resistance? I’ve never lost a phone due to water.
So I’ll flip it around, why do you not want a headphone jack? What about a micro-SD card?
My next phone will probably not have a headphone jack, and I’m annoyed just thinking about it.
I can’t change my phone while using the adapter
Why should I need an adapter for something that used to come standard?
The same reason you needed a new charging cable every time the USB standard changes: because technology standards change over time.
If anything, audio adapters have been a thing for decades longer than cell phones have existed. This is not a new development at all.
What about a micro-SD card?
My phone has an completely excessive 512GB of storage, and I can use USB drives (including micro SD adapters) if I really want to save something to external storage.
Headphone jacks are still ubiquitous, work well, and aren’t overly large. There’s also not really a significant downside vs other ports. USB-C beats previous ports because it’s better:
- micro-USB - destroyed cables and ports
- mini-USB - uncommon
- micro-super speed - even less common
- iPhone lightning cable - broke easily, unique to Apple
Moving to USB-C gives you:
- better port - I’m pretty sure it’ll outlast most of the above
- faster speeds
- more features
- high speed charging
Basically, the only downside is having to buy more cables (and the annoying difference between cable capabilities), and a little higher cost to include it in a product.
With the headphone jack, there’s really no objectively superior alternative. USB-C requires a dongle or USB-C specific headphones, and there’s not really a change to audio quality. If you want to charge at the same time (like you showed), you need an awkward dongle with half that’ll go unused most of the time. Yeah, it works, but it’s a solution to an artificial problem. They could just include an audio jack instead…
My phone has an completely excessive 512GB of storage
Ok, and how much did that built-in storage cost you? Would you have preferred a smaller amount of storage if it meant lower cost, and have the option to expand with a micro-SD card? With Apple, you’d pay $100 to bump to 256GB and $200 more to bump to 512GB. So you’re paying $300 to go from 128GB to 512GB. I could buy a fast, 512GB microsd card for $55 (or slower drives for $35).
And what happens if you switch devices? Let’s say you decide to go Android, now you need to figure out how to get your stuff from one phone to the other. With a micro-SD card, you just move the card. Or if someone wants to get a copy of photos you took, just copy to a micro-SD card and give it to them.
If you don’t want to use it, you don’t need to, but micro-SD ports are small (often paired with the SIM slot) and inexpensive.
Having those convenience ports doesn’t cost you anything and you can ignore them if you want. So I really don’t see a downside to manufacturers keeping them, and it just gives users flexibility. I actually never used the SD slot on my old phone, but I was glad it was there. I would’ve used it if my phone lasted longer than 3-ish years before running out of software updates.
If someone comes up with a better alternative to SD cards or headphone jacks, sure, replace them. But current phones merely lost functionality. Maybe they could have a version w/o the port that has a bit more battery, that would be a good compromise for losing a port you may not want. But just eliminating it while it’s still popular is stupid.
in response to bluetooth being private: https://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=bluetooth
also the adapters get lost and break before the headphones usually do (and cost about as much as a cheap pair of headphones)
Honestly most of these points don’t make a whole lot sense, yet these are the arguments I see every time wireless ear buds pop up in any conversation. Phones by nature are not private, and honestly, who is trying to intercept Bluetooth close to you anyways? Majority of what they would likely get is “oh another person listening to music or tiktok”. I haven’t charged my 3 year old $50 Bluetooth buds in weeks, and they are still sitting at great battery health. Proper research and care goes a long way, though the option to have replacement batteries is def a plus. And if you’re going on long road trips, just pack an adapter and wired headphones if you’re that conscious. What are you doing with your phone that you need top-tier audio quality on the go? Just seems like a very very niche market.
Majority of what they would likely get is “oh another person listening to music or tiktok”
Bluetooth data is encrypted, that’s not what I’m worried about. I’m more concerned about tracking.
Bluetooth transmits a unique ID, which can be picked up by any curious individual. That’s pretty much how “Find my Droid” and “Find my iPhone” work, and providing even more devices to track isn’t great. I can turn off the Bluetooth in my phone and use wired headphones to avoid it, and removing the jack makes that more annoying.
top-tier audio quality on the go? Just seems like a very very niche market
Why not? I often listen to music or whatever when exercising, riding transit, or doing yardwork. Having good sounding headphones is really nice.
Audio jacks cost almost nothing, and I can buy them for <$1 each from Amazon, less if I buy in bulk. So it’s not a cost savings, and they’re not particularly big, so why do they need to remove it?
Even if you don’t care about privacy or audio quality, it’s just really convenient to be able to use any cheap earbuds if you lose your nicer pair when on vacation or whatever. Why not have the option? Why force people to use an adapter?
I also have Bluetooth headphones (bone conduction for listening to audiobooks on my bike), yet I still prefer the wired headphones around the house, on walks, and pretty much everywhere else.
I think the removal is less so the conspiracy, and more so just spacing on the board or even just pure neglect at this point, but I could be wrong. But I’m good with every other point you threw up there. The tracking bit does make sense too, just no one has ever mentioned it. Though I still don’t think anyone is hunting me personally lol. I understand having peace of mind is also good too, and honestly, should not be a luxury like it feels these days.
Yeah, I’m not being hunted either and probably never will be, but privacy is really important to me and just knowing that it’s technically possible without even all that much work just really bothers me. I’m already not a fan of the only options for a phone OS being from Google and Apple, so removing the headphone jack just further reminds me that I’m not in control of my phone.
I would understand if it was totally obsolete, like the old FireWire port on computers or a barrel power jack now that USB-C is a thing, but imo an adapter isn’t a replacement since it requires having and bringing an extra thing along.
And I don’t think every phone needs to have it, and it’s totally fine to have options with and without the jack. The cost difference between the two would be minimal, and in my case, I’d rather have a headphone jack than a third or fourth camera (I honestly rarely use my camera, but I use headphones a lot).
I def think the lack of devices with an aux port is an issue. Honestly the market is too samey right now. Everything that comes out just follows whatever design the last big phone. Evey phone just “has” to have an amazing camera, high resolution and high refresh rate screen, etc. I’m fine with aux ports, I just wish we had variety.
it’s partially because we are running out of options that have the headphone jack, and the only reason to remove them is to boost sales of more expensive bluetooth sets. Bluetooth really doesn’t reign supreme yet because wired headphones are still more convenient, cheaper to produce, and last longer than their bluetooth counterparts. the only reason it’s so common is because it keeps getting removed from phones so people don’t have a choice in the matter.
I’m with you. The hate has always seemed a bit like a first world problem.
I used up all my hate when Apple did it. I still think Apple lied about their reasoning (waterproofing and space), which pisses me off more than the other complaints, many of which I also agree with. (some of those reasons were even more valid when considering the overall state of the tech at the time)
However, at this point a big portion of the market has adjusted and accepted (to varying degrees), and that first change is so far in the past that I don’t know that I can muster up a lot of hate for mfrs who are taking away headphone jacks today when instead of upending the market they are following market trends.
Having said that, I’d be willing to bet that a larger than typical percentage of Fairphone purchasers would really like to have a headphone jack.
edit - purchasers not purchases
Mostly just because it’s kind of seen as a higher profile example of mobile phone manufacturers colluding and creating totally unnecessary changes in the market because they’re incapable of actual innovation. The reason people are mad, basically, is because there was no reason to remove the headphone jack. I haven’t seen a reasonable argument for it’s removal, really, or the removal of most of the other used-to-be-standard features on smartphones.
Does that include fairphone’s explanation for the removal of the headphone jack? Cause to me it sounds reasonable. It could be bs, sure, but I don’t think it is.
The fairphone 4 doesn’t have a jack and its from 2021.
So? Their over ear Bluetooth headphones came out on Q1 2023. Two years developing a new category for your company sounds about right.
Plus, their phones are expected to be used for long, so if they wanted to push people towards Bluetooth they’d have to start early.
Plus, this is still irrelevant - how does the fact they screwed customers over in 2021 somehow make it better?
So? Their over ear Bluetooth headphones came out on Q1 2023. Two years developing a new category for your company sounds about right.
So they first removed the headphone jack but intentionally didn’t launch a companion device because the customers would just wait for them “to sell you their expensive solution”?
the fact they screwed customers over in 2021
Wait, 2021 customers were not informed about that and got their headphone jacks taken away after already paying? They could not make an informed decision and were screwed over?
Okay, but my phone has a jack and absolutely dog water sound quality. Because it has a jack it does not support the USB DAC which I use on my desktop.
Worst part is, the whole USB DAC is $12 including shipping and it has USB connector and 3.5mm, and an amp. They cheaped out on this part not only on the phone, but also on the motherboard. On my computer the amp is way too weak to drive my around ear headphones.
So if it’s a crap one maybe they shouldn’t even include it, since I’ll have to use a USB DAC to get perfectly transparent sound. The only good one I own is on my budget Acer Aspire laptop.
LG phones used to come with a DAC. I still use mine as an MP3 player even though it’s not my main phone.
All phones with a 3.5mm audio jack have a DAC. You can’t play digital audio without one somewhere along the chain and all audio going through a phone or PC is digital unless you’re picking up a radio signal or some other analog signal that’s being fed directly to the audio jack.
You probably mean it comes with a good DAC, since they aren’t all created equal.
A bit of a tangent, but I believe that’s why people considered Macs better for audio stuff, they probably used a better DAC than most motherboards come with or might have just added that pathway in general back when it wasn’t standard on most PC motherboards and your had to use a sound card if you wanted better audio than the PC speaker which was more of a synthesizer. They’d take a pitch and generate an analog wave at that frequency while a DAC uses a sample rate and series of amplitudes at that frequency to generate rich sound.
My current phone is an LG G8 and I have no idea what I’m going to replace it with when it finally dies. I’m half considering seeing if one of the local repair shops can replace the battery on it because that’s what’s starting to go.
Honestly, I blame LG’s marketing team on the failure of their phone department. Hardly anyone knew about the built in DAC, and they should have been pushing that hard to the audiophiles.
I’d rather they just give me a headphone jack tbh
I’m right there with ya. I know many people prefer wireless earbuds, but I like ripping cables out of my ears at random. Makes me feel alive.
Am I the only one that can’t stand the few hundred millisecond delay of Bluetooth audio?
fuck wireless headphones! I don’t want to remember charging another god damn thing to start with.
I have come to love my bluetooth earbuds… but darn when im in the car i just wanna plug my phone in some times.
This the type of business the EU has to develop. An entire ecosystem from phones, earbuds to computers and software. It’s how you create a conscious and a model.
And standards. EU please enforce standards and interoperability, and open APIs.
I love what fairphone and some other companies are doing.
Still some of their earphones got a 1/10 reparability on ifixit, so I’d really check how reparaible these ones are.
I wish all their stuff wasn’t EU only.
It’s hard for a small manufacturer to start selling in overseas markets. It would take a certain volume for them to have the capital to set up shop in the US.
Search for KZ IEM it’s a chifi has this kind of feature also probably cheaper than fairphone version.
You should ask your carrier why. Why they don’t offer it. EU and US are two different market where people don’t buy phones in the same way.
They cut the cost by not selling it to the carriers which will sell it to the customer.
In my European country, the market is dynamic. The fairphone 5 is available in multiple store. People have cheap mobile plan without contract. Another type of market.
I think you can get them imported but the costs go up significantly. Also they wouldnt be certified by your electronic bodies
You can, I had an English vendor ship me my FP4 and it works just fine stateside. It does have its quirks being locked to GSM networks and the 5G bands not being universally aligned between the continents.
I’m doing just fine with my bio body…
I still use the free wired earbuds I get on flights. You can also go to walmart and get unpackaged bags of them for like $1. I just lose wireless ones too easily
I mean, yes that’s an option. They are terrible for anything other than hearing things like they are in a tin can, but an option.
I’d suggest at least a slight upgrade if you prefer wired, and there’s nothing wrong with preferring wired. But I honestly can’t stand them. I get the wire caught on clothes, can’t leave my phone charging and pace the room, have to deal with it if I’m running, etc. It’s just more comfortable to use wireless.
Some solutions:
- run the wire under your shirt
- charge your phone at night - I rarely need to charge during the day
- listen to audiobooks - crappy audio doesn’t matter as much
I have both wired and wireless headphones and love them both. For wireless, I use my bone conduction headphones most of the time so I can talk to others briefly, hear what’s going on around me, etc. But when I really want a good listening experience, I use my wired headphones. They’re fantastic for music, playing games (e.g. on my Steam Deck around the house), movies, etc.
But sometimes the crappy ear buds are just the ticket. I leave a pair in my work bag in case I’m stuck at the airport on a business trip or something and forgot one of my other pairs.
Meh.
Overpriced.
I can buy 3 or 4 pairs of BT5 earphones for the price of these.
My most expensive pair currently was $75.
I’ve never had batteries go bad in them - they get broken well before that happens. Though I have a noise canceling headset from 2006 that still works. Battery lasts long enough.
I’d rather break a pair of $30 earphones, and have multiple spares than a single pair of $150.
And they all sound about the same given the source and environment.
Overpriced.
their entire premise is making sure that people on the supply chain of their devices are compensated adequately (hence the “Fair” in the name), which is why their products are more expensive than you’re used to.
Nooooo! You can pry my cheap tat produced by child labour from my cold dead hands!
It’s called feel-good marketing. Similar to organic veggies or ethical coffee from Starbucks.
I don’t know about Starbucks or Big Organic Veggie, but Fairphone publishes annual reports on sustainability and life quality of their workers.
Of course, that’s part of the marketing idea. Starbucks (and many others with feel-good marketing) did the exact same, until it leaks that it wasn’t quite the truth.
It’s not for nothing that Fairphone is guilt-tripping in rich countries ;) But still exploiting poor countries.
And downvote me what you want. It doesn’t make you immune for cheap marketing tricks. People with a Fairphone are the same kind of people who brag about how their cup of Starbucks saved a life, stepped right into the trickery.
While I’m not blaming you, what you’re saying is really the problem in our society.
I blame his mother. There, I said it.
But their mother’s mother is to blame for their mother!
When I shopped for wireless earbuds, I spent a half hour comparing the top brands (most expensive), so I ended up asking the clerk what he used (saw one in his ear). The ones he recommended were $20 and they’re great, sound decent, and last all day.
Sometimes cheap is just as good.
My batteries are already on their last legs in the Sony tws, but I’ll be replacing them with new ones.
If your $30 earphones break before their batteries do, maybe consider buying something that does not break in a year of use?
