Hi Lemmy, My HOA sent out a email saying dogs are no longer allowed on any grass in common areas or front yards including grass between sidewalk and curb which is… everywhere except our own tiny backyards. The reasoning is some dog urine effected dead spots. Honestly I didn’t even notice them, it’s 95° here and all the grass looks sad.
It’s a walking town and we are not a gated community, non-residents walk their dogs here all the time, so this rule can only punish those who live here and has no ability to effect others.
Anyway, this seems like a ‘we have tried nothing and we are all out of ideas!’ moment so I wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions I can pass on to maintain a “good” curb appeal ground cover-wise while allowing dogs to do normal dog stuff.
I can converse with the HOA board in good faith, but this rule is basically banning dogs from the neighborhood - which I super did not sign up for.
Pertainent info: PA, USA - Town Home style homes - small central common grass - owned for 8y.
Edit: it seems like people may have glossed over the question part and skipped straight to HOA bashing (which is warranted at times!) so I will rephrase:
What ground covering or neighborhood solutions to similar (perceived) issues have other communities employed?
Check to make sure that the HOA actually has the power to do this. As a land owner you are bound to follow the covenants that run with the land, but you are only actually bound to follow those covenants. You don’t have to do random stuff just because the HOA board or even a majority of the HOA voters say so, you only actually have to do what’s in the covenants.
Unless the covenants say that you agree to follow a bunch of dog-related rules to be defined later, you almost certainly are allowed to park your dog in your own front yard or in that of any consenting neighbor.
The HOA can pass an amendment or addendum to the covenants at any point, which then instantly enacts the rule and gives them the power to fine you and put a lien on your property if you don’t pay…with the caveat that I’m speaking about in the USA. Do other countries have HOA’s? You could go to a meeting or take them to court of course.
The HOA generally can only amend the covenants if a large majority of members vote to do so.
Yeah but lots of times the board is like 4 people
Clearly the solution to start owning wolves.
How the fuck are they going to enforce this?
I’m not American so I’m not familiar with how HOAs work
What’s the consequence to just ignoring the rule?
They’ll fine you, and if you don’t pay they’ll put a lien on your house. You can’t really just ignore them.
Find out when the next meeting is. Tell them you’re going to attend.
Organize all the other dog owners and all of you attend. Explain why the new rule is a burden on you all. Explain what you want. Listen to their reasoning. Come to an agreeable compromise.
A complicating factor: I would say ~50% of the houses are rented and only the homeowners have a say in HOA matters. So, assuming any owners without dogs (including the whole board) and any landlord would logically vote to ban all use of the grass, while all dog-owning homeowners would vote to allow dogs near the grass.
Obviously that’s generalizing what the votes would be - even though the majority of the houses have dogs, I would say the minority are homeowners with dogs.
The reason I bring this up is a petition-style response may be dismissed as “well those dog owners have no say as they are not homeowners”
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I actually don’t know if a landlord has to do anything to keep a renter happy these days? Or if there is enough demand that they would not care? Not sure, perhaps I am approaching that question pessimistically.
Most landlords would be more than happy if their renters dog died… You tried to get a lease with a dog lately? Unless you have something like a teacup poodle a vast majority of landlords don’t want to lease to you.
In a vacuum, yes. But what if some of them have been there for a few years and are paying below-market rent? Or are generally dicks but not egregious enough to go to the trouble of evicting?
So the AKC has this page that lists about half a dozen alternatives to outright banning dogs on grass.
https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/home-living/dog-pee-killing-grass/
I agree this very much sounds like the HOA taking the laziest route possible at the expense of it’s residents.
But also, fuck HOAs. Get on the board and take that shit down from the inside, only reliable way to destroy those parasites.
shit like this is the reason I will never ever participate in an HOA
Former real estate agent here
All you can do is talk to the hoa board. That is it. If they won’t listen then you have no options. Other then pointing out this wont solve the problem and only punish members. Good luck.
no LEGAL options
FTFY
You can get on the board and change it from the inside.
Well assuming such a position is open Some hoa I know were set up that the head is 20 year position. One hoa had it so 1 guy had complete veto power and the way to get rid of him was to wait for every plot of land in the hoa to sell. This was out in west Texas and 10 years ago. They have not sold all of them and he is still in charge.
I’ve read some folks being a bottle of water on walks to dilute the pee so it’s less likely to ruin grass. But in fairness if some dog pee is ruining grass, owners are not watering their lawns enough. There are plenty of dogs in my neighborhood that are walked and I don’t think there are many pee spot issues.
But even better would be to not use grass :) uses too much water in the first place hehe
As someone not from the US. What in the world are you guys doing with your grass that makes it need watering and gets ruined by dog pee?
I have lived around dogs my entire life and never seen any grass get miscolourd by their pee.
Oh we we water it with bud light
There’s essentially no difference between Bud Light and dog pee, so the grass should react the same in both scenarios.
That explains so much.
Brawndo has what lawns crave.
Is this legal? My understanding is that the strip of grass between the sidewalk and street is “semi-private”, in that the homeowner has to maintain it, but that the city actually owns it.
I’d check local laws and see if the HOA has any right to restrict dogs there.
HOAs have excessive rights especially newer ones and this is probably actually legal. The city likely owns none of it btw.
HOAs are a blight on American home ownership, John Oliver did a segment on it, but new HOA contracts are crazy if you haven’t had a peek at one.
In an additional effort to refocus this thread to ground cover, has anyone here in the northeast US gone with a clover ground cover, rather than grass?
Why not put down mulch and native perennials? Skip fussy turf grass altogether.
That would also probably be an HOA violation. Welcome to hell
Clover would be a good option, it’s more resistant to burning from dog urine than most grasses. It wasn’t that long ago since clover was included with standard lawn seed mixes.
I haven’t put down clover, but keep meaning to
I am still confused how these “home owner associations” have any legal right to tell you to do anything…
When you buy the house you sign a contract giving them authority over certain things. You’re bound by the terms of the contract.
Is it not possible to just not sign that contract? All contracts can be changed and if part of selling the house is that you are not beholden to the HOA, why is it forced on you?
Why does the HOA have any authority in the sale of a house? The contract is between the buyer, seller, and their financial institutions. Anyone else is unnecessary.
It’s not, not if you want to buy the house. The way it works is this:
I’m a property developer and I want to put in a new area of housing. Well that’s gonna be expensive up front, roads have to be paved, utilities like power and sewage ran, and houses and common areas built. That’s all very expensive, my incentive for doing so is that the property values will remain high. So before I sell a house to anyone, I establish an HOA and require anyone who wishes to buy a house to sign the contract for it. You don’t want to sign the contract, you don’t buy the house. That contract also includes a stipulation that if you sell the house you have to include the provision for the HOA.
Now HOAs can be dissolved. Once enough people own houses that they can form their own HOA board they are free to do so, and usually do. That board then takes over the control of the content of those contracts including the provision requiring their signing. So if you want to dissolve an HOA you get on the board or lobby your neighbors to do so, call a meeting, and dissolve it. If you can get enough of your neighbors to agree, the HOA is gone.
There’s usually some bullshit to allow the developer to retain control indefinitely. There will be provisions for the turnover, but the stipulations will involve something that won’t happen for sixty years.
But HOAs are communities right? Doesn’t a HOA meeting have super authority, to remove bylaws like that?
No community I know of in Dutch legislation can block a community (‘vereniging’) from dissolving itself. Moreso since there’s always a law above it on how to disband a community, which cannot be bypassed.
Any HOA can dissolve itself, it merely requires the consent and vote of the board. The rules on how that happens are in the HOA’s bylaws. There’s nothing in law preventing them from doing so.
This is mostly governed under American contract law.
No, I don’t believe we have that kind of protection here. I don’t know enough details to say what kind of protections (if any) we do have.
It’s possible to not buy the house, but the covenant/contract comes with it. Can’t do one without the other. When it’s formed the owner and the HOA have an agreement that no sale of an HOA’d property can take place without the buyer also agreeing to be in the HOA. The HOA has authority given to them by the owner of the property.
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Hard to find one without an HOA these days. And HOAs are usually full of people who want to exert power over other people but don’t have the intelligence or ambition to climb any higher.
I say burn the hoa with fire
You have been living there for 8 yrs. Is this the first time the board has been unreasonable? If not, you might not have much recourse. Except for becoming president of the HOA and changing by-laws yourself. Unfortunately, HOAs in America are fucking weird she mostly unregulated which leads to these power tripping people.
If so, I would converse with them and present the same arguments you posted here.
In both cases, it would help if you can get your neighbors on the same page and agree. If more than half of the neighbors come to the consensus that it’s unreasonable, could easily force the board’s hand and revert. If they don’t bend, I would then ask your neighbors to re-elect the board. If at this point, you would need to check your HOA by-laws since it wildly differs across the USA.
Pour used oil on the head of the how’s lawn. Then have every dog owner complain about it.
