The mods of all the major communities there remove comments criticism Hexbear and usually follow it up with a ban. It’s absolutely clear what is happening and it shouldn’t be allowed to continue.
If they weren’t such weasels and actually agrued back rather than just ban people like the spineless dimwit twats they are, I’d say the argument that they are easily filtered holds. But given they are just looking to propagate their shilling for Russia, trump (and they definitely do this) etc… fuck em!
Even outside of their space, when they “argue” it had generally been posting giant, random images that had little to no context followed by walls of emojis. Which is why my blocklist is mostly Hexbear users.
The giant images thing is a glitch actually. Try viewing the same thread in your browser and they’re reggo size
Pretty damn rich coming from lemmy.world where you ban people for criticizing Biden
All you dummies do when you ban and defederate is push more and more people into extremist communities.
I’ve been banned for defending Biden lol
I’ve been banned for defending Biden, kiddo…. Find a new bit, the one you’re using is old.
Yes, leftists famously LOVE Donald Trump 🤣
This is the most Reddit radlib shit I’ve seen over here yet. Grow up my dude
Lemmy.ml are tankies first and foremost. They’ll defend anything that Russia/China thinks is good.
Calling them leftists is an insult to the rest of us who aren’t authie chuds.
Hard agree.
Hexbears arent lefties. They are hiding behind acting like they are lefties while at the same time sucking up to the most fascist regimes on earth.
They sure seem to like him a lot better than voting in solidarity with the people who’s lives he threatens!
Or maybe I should refine to White “Leftists” since everyone else need not be told why that’s so fucking stupid.
No ‘leftists’ don’t, but you’re all pepe loving little bootlicking fascists.
Sure, but what about right wing trolls pretending to leftists?
I’m all for defederating Hexbear, but lemmy.ml is absolutely huge compared to Hexbear. To motivate the community to do that you’d need quite a bit of proof. Or at least something rather compelling. Do you have any proof of what you’re referring to?
Asking for proof of what is an open secret on lemmy seems disingenuous.
I think that instances like hexbear, lemmygrad, and lemmy.ml are very bad advocates for Lemmy and will most likely end up damaging it more than anything else, keeping the “normies” out.
They argue in Bad faith, say the most radical stuff they can think of, and purge anything bad said about totalitarian regimes they idolize. China, Russia, Iran, all considered victims of the evil west…
- Uyghur camps > not happening
- Tiannamen square > Just some peaceful protests
- invasion of Ukraine > NATO forced Russia to do it
I was banned from lemmy.ml for posting a meme about the fact that gay characters are removed from movies in China. Not even by a mod. By an admin. I’m not remotely surprised they’re pro-shitheap in general
There is an admin on lemmy.ml that seems to be banning anyone who says anything negative about China. If I’m thinking of the right person, they are also a large contributor to the Lemmy codebase. That person is why I stopped donating to the Lemmy devs.
This kind of stuff is making me consider stopping my donations to the Lemmy project, and instead donating to the Sublinks drop-in replacement developed by the programming.dev instance admins
Hexbear loves to dogpile as well. I’ve seen a couple of raiding threads linking to other threads in Lemmy.ml making fun of whoever. But in reality they’re just directing people over there to shit on someone. At least, that’s what I saw last year, so I’m very distrusting of them.
That and the Lemmy.ml AMA thread where one admin was all buddy buddy with Hexabear users during their federation.
I abandoned an old account because Hexbear bullies followed me around and downvoted everything. Come to think of it, I haven’t posted a single thing since then, and I had a bunch of posts with hundreds of votes.
This literally cannot be true, because hexbear accounts cannot downvote.
If so maybe it was lemmy.ml, I get them confused sometimes
Check my history, I called them out for the NATO one today and they threw all sorts of random shit at me that was off the central point, just looking for a mistake in my wording.
Yep. They were claiming that Putin invaded Ukraine to stop fascists. And that they were liberators. I was like, why would one fascist care what other fascists do? In the US, our fascist, wealthy Republicans largely supported Hitler till pearl harbor. But I did agree with them that the Soviet Union absolutely liberated many countries against their will post WWII. And that those countries still hold it against them to this day.
The gulags were mentioned and they were like, but but but America jails more! To which I told them that was bad. But the West doesn’t kill millions of prisoners the way they did. And all for political dissent, reminding them of just two weeks ago when Putin had Navalny killed for political dissent.
The absurd thing is, I’m one hundred percent down for Marxism. And largely agree politically with his theory plus some modernization. So technically we would agree on a lot of things there. It’s just the Engles and Lenin bullshit I disagree with, and has shown to have failed. Or caused their downfall historically. But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.
But they are primarily leninists, dedicated ideologically to authoritarians and strongmen above all reality.
Why does that mean they should be banned? Is speech that we agree with the only permitted speech?
Just because you think they’re wrong doesn’t mean they should be banned. Banning them makes it look like we’re afraid of people reading their points, which gives them power and credibility
I have not commented on whether or not I think they should. Frankly I’m ambivalent. Considering many of the others that have been defederated. I think it’s kind of hypocritical that Lemmy.ml hasn’t. Personally though I don’t have need or desire to defederate them. It’s pretty easy, if annoying to poke holes in their arguments where important.
However it’s important to remember that each server is answerable to it’s community and ownership. If world defederated from lemmy.ml you’d be unaffected. And seeing the disdain lemmy.ml has for many types of speech. I’m not overly motivated to make any case to keep them around either. Offering them what they deny others.
Considering many of the others that have been defederated. I think it’s kind of hypocritical that Lemmy.ml hasn’t.
So what? If it was wrong to defederate from those other instances then this can be wrong as well
However it’s important to remember that each server is answerable to it’s community and ownership
Or, more accurately, answerable to the appearance of a community and ownership. All of the major instances are heavily astroturfed by various state and corporate entities. Which includes both the United States/West and China/Russia. World is western aligned and ML is not. It’s a proxy war in cyberspace, same as occurs on reddit and Twitter and elsewhere. The solution to such a proxy war is not to cede all ground to the West - such action would not promote truth or critical thought
It could be. It’s not. But it could have been.
And do you have any proof of that? I’ve not seen anything of the like. I’m Marxist myself. Just not Leninist. I have no major issues on world. I tend to get downvoted about equally from capitalist to leninist. Up voted too. I’ve not noticed any anti-left trend. Anti ml? Sure. But they are not left in any meaningful sense beyond nominally. Authoritarians always ape populist political trends. In order to take advantage of society. Hitler did it, Lenin and Stalin did too. Though, unlike Hitler, I believe Lenin actually genuinely wanted a good outcome. Despite his bad ideology.
People should have free speech, governments shouldn’t have the ability to degrade our platform with shills and LLMs, especially if they’re spreading propaganda for dictatorships.
governments shouldn’t have the ability to degrade our platform with shills and LLMs
I agree, but that is exactly what the United States and the West does.
China, Russia, and Iran do it as well, of course.
“The west” has been caught flat-footed in the modern disinformation game, they have nothing comparable.
It’s totally reasonable to ask me to cite my reasoning.
IF lemmy.ml is admin’d by the Lemmy devs, themselves,
AND their ideology/prejudice is being obstructed by the Lemmy-verse,
THEN wouldn’t it be rational for them to engineer-in to Lemmy, itself, protections for their ideology?
Breaking the Fediverse’s ability to “manage” them?
or breaking the Fediverse’s ability to have any alternative-ideology be its core??
I’m thinking they could either adulterate privacy, deliberately, or they could force blocking to be porous, or something…
IOW, I’m thinking that it is strategically-incompetent to allow tankies to own our core tech, exactly as it is strategically-incompetent to allow right-wing highjackers-of-our-countries to do so.
?
They could, but it’s open source software. People can just fork it and not follow along such self destructive paths.
Yes, but for example if everyone is running the mainline code, and .ml decides they are going to run a version which does not respect federation updates under certain conditions, they could quietly poison the entire fediverse by spoofing updates from other instances. It’s very obvious that they are already selectively federating their modlog, for example. And some other instances already play games with how votes get reported. There is a lot of trust baked into the federation updates, and nobody knows how to exploit that better than dessalines, who is clearly very interested in using the platform to push a specific ideology.
I am absolutely in favor of forking Lemmy to get this out of their hands, fwiw. Specifically for this reason. I think they’ve shown that they are not above poisoning the code base exactly like this.
I blacked out irrelevant information.
Lmao I’ve also been banned by rimjob from World News over the stupidest shit. And yes, he did cite some bullshit even thought I was clearly within the rules and arguing in good faith. How dare someone stand their ground against Bruce Almighty from World News! Not surprised.
I had a bunch of reasonable posts deleted from World News. I just blocked it but defederating would be way better because then we can rebuild a healthier news community somewhere else.
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Yeah that coat of red paint is definitely more stylish
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Moreover, it seems pretty clear to me that .ml intends to keep their finger on the scale as much as possible. Just saying “oh federation solves all the problems just block them” doesn’t really fix the issue when there are a bunch of ways they can potentially run malicious versions of the code base to mess with how federation functions and hold onto their influence. For example, they are already refusing to federate their mod logs in some cases, and they’ve shown themselves to be completely shameless and hypocritical when it comes to banning any and all dissent. They simply cannot be trusted.
I personally believe that the broader fediverse should seriously consider taking serious steps to cut out .ml before they do something drastic to fuck it all up
They also manipulated the modlog on their site to not differentiate between removed by mod and removed by admin. So even When something is removed by Dessalines or Nutomic it’ll still show as moderator and not admin in the mod log.
That your lies get any upvotes is quite sad, i thought people on lemmy were tech savvy. I’m not and even i can see that you’re making this stuff up.
Maybe go back to .ml where people don’t need proof to support their arguments and just make wild sweeping accusations, but it’s been proven already that OP is correct.
You’re just wrong.
Where is the proof please? As far as i can see, the lemmy.world modlog is the outlier, not the lemmy.ml one.
Plenty of people have provided proof. You’re free to check all the threads here and find them yourself. At this point I’d just be repeating the same sources.
Do your own work. Don’t expect everyone to do it for you.
Sorry but i cannot find anything. If the proof for Draconic’s claims is so obvious and plenty, please be so kind and link at least one bit to me. The only thing i could find that seems like some kind of “proof” is the screenshot @Draconic_NEO posted. How they got to take it i have no idea, not saying they drew it in paint, but here is what it looks like on my side (same mod actions):
Again, it’s not my job to provide evidence already provided.
you must support your own position.
ml and Hexbear definitely don’t have the same users. Their comments look very different. Hexbear is far more extreme in every way.
I would need pretty convincing evidence to believe that the major .ml communities don’t have at least one mod each with a Hexbear alt.
Seems like they werent such big fans of your post. It has been removed from their instance and your account was banned. Very interesting 🤔
Well, the discussion in this thread has convinced me to agree. It’s also readily apparent that ml thinks any criticism against them is because they’re leftist. They can’t fathom that anyone could think they’re an asshole or authoritarian apologist.
They don’t think that, they aren’t actually leftists and they know it. They’re masquerading as leftists and using that as a cover for spreading authoritarian propaganda. It’s intentional, they know precisely what they’re doing.
If you try to talk to them about it they’ll argue in bad faith and try to waste your time.
I’ve been saying this for like 6 months.
.ml is just a filter for Hexbear and lemmygrade users to infiltrate the greater federated instances.
Absolutely is. I’ve no doubt.
I block them
Lemmy.ml is a massive instance. I don’t really know where are you posting there, probably in political communities and thus this reaction. But I follow lots of communities that are hosted on Lemmy.ml and they are just normal communities about their topics, normally technology. I certainly do not want to lose those communities of having to move my accounts around just because you had some problems with some particular people. Block them yourself and move on.
I don’t get why there’s always people in small places that are always doing their best to make them even smaller. Lots of goods things are lost this way. We must be clever in trying to preserve and make this good things thrive. And, believe me I’ve been in lots and lots and lots of small community driven projects, this kind of attitude is no good for them. You cannot take every small issue you have with some part of the project and say: “we do not work together anymore”.
If there’s an issue let’s be constructive about it. But defederation of such a big instance with so many people and communities that just does not care about this drama… I don’t see how that helps lemmy as a whole.
I suppose there’s a lot of political ideology behind what’s being ask for, and what’s being said. So I do not expect convince OP of anything, as those hard as steel political beliefs are inmutable. But I hope sanity and a wish for making Lemmy a big project of the kind of social networks we want in the future will prevail. Even if that means sharing space with people you don’t politically agree 100% about everything, because that’s how a community works, different people working together.
The fact I got an instance ban means the admins were involved and were endorsing the tankies. The problem exists at the highest level of Lemmy.ml, not just in a handful of communities.
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No. Defederating at the drop of a hat is stupid. You don’t like it? Then you, YOU, block the instance.
I don’t like defederation, but these clowns are asking for it for a very long time.
Lemmy.ml is not only a massive instance, it is also the original and core lemmy instance. Widespread defederation would be like a nuclear bomb to the lemmy platform.
Some people have developed alternatives in the threadiverse like kbin or piefed. If lemmy.ml is truly too far aflight for users to tolerate, it seems likely that alternative platforms will fill in the gaps. For now, lemmy is still a thriving and growing platform.
Widespread defederation has been the norm, though. It has always been a thing, and many threads exist going back and forth on mutual defederation for ages.
And also, the only reason I’m on Lemmy.world and not .ml is precisely because of their moderation and their community. I’m the example you’re talking about.
I say bite the bullet and break the cord already. This is not the first or only thread calling for defederation of Lemmy.ml.
What I’m saying is that this is a unique instance. I also think that for my purposes, .world is a much better option, and I think that for most people, it’s a much healthier and more stable place. I’m just not sure that the rest of lemmy can survive without .ml - It is literally where the development of the platform happens.
What do you do when you have defederated from the developers of the platform you’re using? How do you have a working relationship to meet users needs? Someone will say just fork it, but that’s essentially the same as launching a new platform. As I mentioned, others have done exactly that, partly for technical reasons relating to the vision of what the platform should be, but also for political reasons.
I’m not advocating for anything, i’m simply stating some of the realities of the platform we are using.
Lemmy.world will happily destroy lemmy as a whole if their only other choice is allying with leftists.
What? That is just a silly argument.
People are discussing destructive moderation by .ml mods. And the damage this is causing to the community. And you go and turn it around by accusing .world of destruction of Lemmy in the hypothetical situation that consequences are connected to behavior of .ml mods and admins.
I believe the term for this is gaslighting?
Fracturing the space is way more destructive than whatever you mean by destructive moderating, since the moderating will only affect some communities and even within that, some users while defederating will split the user base.
Is it though? As the moderation sets the tone and defines what is allowed conversation. By simply denying truth, they are guilty of the same “alternative facts” shit the trump camp is guilty of… and that is pretty damn dangerous for everyone.
And unfortunately by setting an instance to block I still have to deal with their scummy Userbase all over the fediverse. deFederation removes that too. It is a solution to the issue. Just like we won’t accept people coming on here and spouting actual nazi propaganda, an instance under the control of authoritarian apologists should not be kept around simply because they run a large instance.
You’re talking like a totalitarian. People with this worldview should not hold power, and certainly should not determine what is acceptable discourse.
It is disappointing to see that some Americans/Westerners are allergic to disagreeing worldviews. Apparently diversity is only permitted so long as it broadly supports liberal democracies and capitalist understandings of history.
Sickening stuff. Makes me think Lemmy isn’t much better than Reddit, particularly if this attitude becomes more prevalent on here
This is what Tankies seem incapable of understanding. We don’t dislike you because you’re leftists. We dislike you because you’re authoritarian simping assholes.
Go to ml and condemn Russia for their war crimes against LGBT Ukrainians. See how long it takes for you to get banned for going against their beloved country.
Ml will be long term poison to the group. There’s nothing new to say over there, all their own threads are circular.
.world spent months denying the genocide in Gaza. It’s a shithole that is likely an op run by western governments to herd in normies and push favorable narratives. Not remotely hard to see that
That’s a joke. I’ve seen denial comments but from the very start world was always pro Palestine. This does not mean there are no examples of Gaza denial on . World
Yeah because lemmy world never circlejerks about anything. Meanwhile you’re literally in one now.
So what if it is the original? Bad moderation, combined with idolation of authoritarianism is some poisonous stuff.
The question is if admins are willing to have an open conversation about the moderation and content.
But deFederation is a fine solution. Then the admins on .ml have their way and they can have their little hermit kingdom without any dissenting views. And we can go on with out lives without their bile in our feeds and threads.
It’s crazy that people here want the most authoritarian measure to fight authoritarianism somehow…
What people, what authoritarian measure?
You mean it is strange that sane, normal people want to stop authoritarian/totalitarian fanboys from spreading hatefull falsehoods, stifling dissent using bans and heavy moderation? By using the tools at their disposal and telling these smegheads to f- off? Plenty of speech is deemed unacceptable: holocaust denial, swatstikas, from the river to the sea, white power, just to name a few.
Well if that is your idea of what should be acceptable, we disagree. The Overton window should remain in the middle and not be allowed to stretch to include these extremist views. Not from the “right” or “left”.
This thread is about de federating from lemmy.lm. Because some fascists here are on a witch hunt against some people from hexbear.
It is literally telling everyone that either they defederate from hexbear or they defederate from lemmy.world.
Typical trump diplomacy btw.
I think the issue is way bigger than hexbear, or maybe they are mask off on hexbear. But hexbear, lemmygrad and lemmy.ml can be their own little island archipelago for all I care. If this helps people not have to deal with these idiots.
Keep calling everyone fascists and trump-ets, it does not help your argument.
You see, now you’re saving the people from the evil leftist propaganda.
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Gonna be real with you:
I think it’s a bit wild that we’re still federated with instances that engage in censorship like this and have ideals that run counter to ours in so many ways. We literally have “No tankie shit” as an instance rule, yet we still let people like this spread their echo chamber nonsense through federation. You do realize that if they’re allowed to spread their ideology freely when we aren’t, that they have an advantage? “Repeat a lie often enough and it becomes the truth” and all that good stuff.
They have decided we aren’t worth listening to and their only reason they keep us around is to evangelize to. The fact I got an instance ban for this should be all the proof you need that discourse with these people is dead.
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It’s funny how you picture this authoritarianism, and then this very thread is exactly about that : either you defederate from hexbear or you defederate from lemmy.world is the request here.
I’ve seen far far more fascists on lemmy than I’ve seen tankies BTW.
So you know maybe it’s lemmy.world that turned fascist and not lemmy.ml. Just food for thought here.
Tankies like you are the reason people think leftists like me call everyone they don’t like fascists.
Hexbear is a fascist website. You are an idiot.
I’m not a tankie, and I see far more fascists than I see tankies. In fact I’ve seen maybe two tankies comments on lemmy while I see fascists several times a week.
Really. What fascists have you seen? How do you know they’re fascists? What’s your political ideology?
It’s not thriving. The devs are prickly arseholes, which is anathema to building a cooperative, volunteer-driven dev community and the tone of many mainstream communities is obnoxiously set by tankies amd their alts.
Probably one of if not the biggest reasons people had poor experiences on Lemmy before was because they signed up on Lemmy.ml
LOL this was me. I thought it would be cool to be on the DEV instance and didn’t know that it had a whole lot of other baggage on it.
It would’ve been me too, but when I started looking at Lemmy the dev’s instance was closed along with many others, so the first one was Lemmy.world for me. While Lemmy.world has its flaws it’s still way better than ml, really dodged a bullet there.
You were lucky. I got in right before the Reddit exodus, so I guess I got in before they closed things down.
If instances can participate in asymmetric information warfare without reprisal, the Lemmy experiment has failed.
If that’s what it takes I’m ready to switch to a new platform today. Let’s fork and make something healthy.
You might also be interested in checking out kbin, mbin, SubLinks (under development), or PieFed. they each emerged for the reasons we are talking about. They are all free to try and AFAIK interoperable with lemmy for the time being.
Thank you. I’ve been hearing bad things about Kbin the last few weeks, but Mbin and SubLinks sound promising.
Just don’t join the communities you don’t like.
Would you apply that logic to a neonazi white supremacist community on Lemmy.world?
Would you apply that logic to a neonazi white supremacist community on Lemmy.world?
Okay, so you’re fine with sharing spaces with neonazi white supremacists.
you’re fine with sharing spaces with neonazi white supremacists.
I’m not sharing a space with them when I block them, duh.
No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.
They would still be active on the site and harming the community at large, you personally would just be blind to it.
No, you’re putting a blanket over them and pretending they’re not there any more.
Isn’t defederation the same thing? Users won’t disappear (and they can also create accounts elsewhere…).
Blocked users or communities can still interact on the wider site and with you, you just won’t see them.
Defederated instances are completely barred from doing so.
It’s the difference between plugging your ears when someone else speaks vs locking them out of your house and not letting them get close.
Have your instance block individual communities and users then.
Blocking entire big-tent instances is “harming the community at large”.
PS: Have fun on my block list. I’m not discussing any longer with someone who says I’m a neonazi sympathizer.
Okay so how do we report lemmy.ml?
Your stance is basically: “I had disagreements with/don’t like users from an instance, please block an entire instance for all other users in the instance I’m in”. Why are you making your problems everyone else’s?
My stance is that Hexbear is a bunch of fascists spreading their ideology and Lemmy.ml is helping them doing it by banning dissenters. I believe that freedom of speech only works with parity, and giving fascists a one-way echo chamber with which to spread fascism, deny genocide, brigade, and otherwise act in bad faith should be entirely unacceptable. People should not be getting posts from Lemmy.ml on their feeds because this “curated” discussion is basically the memetic equivalent of an engineered virus, and it cannot be allowed to spread.
It’s very easy to label people fascists as a generic “bad people” label and claim they’re arguing in bad faith based on nothing but your feelings. I could just as easily call you a fascist for trying to decide what everyone else on this instance gets to see and that you’re arguing in bad faith wanting vengeance because you threw a tantrum on another instance and got spanked for it.
The most name-calling I see are from people like you who label anyone who disagrees with them a “fascist”, “shill”, “bot”, “tankie”, “wumao” or millions of other terms and I see so many posts getting downvoted for not following your desired narrative. We can see this happen in the posts right here.
(politics, slang, derogatory, by extension) A supporter of authoritarian policies and actions by the Soviet Union, China, or other nominally socialist governments.
Any right-wing, authoritarian, nationalist ideology characterized by centralized, totalitarian governance, strong regimentation of the economy and society, and repression of criticism or opposition.
So yeah, Hexbear isn’t full of fascists, it’s full of tankies, which are just fascists with a socialist coat of paint. The fact that I’m doing this because I was actioned by a moderator acting as a tankie commissar doesn’t change the validity of my reasoning as to why being federated to Lemmy.ml is a problem.
and you think this entitles you to be commissar dictating what everyone on this instance gets to see or not see? If I call you fascist enough times, does that mean your posts can be blocked for everyone?
Thank you
my face when i signed up for lemmy.ml 2 months ago for fun and now they’re being called 5 different political terms
(their sign up verification test was “what is two plus two” back then)
I predicted this when lemmygrad got defederated. I said that neoliberals were gonna identify some other instance as the “tankie instance” and start campaigning to defederate from it.
Funny because it’s always been those 3 instances this whole time, nothing ever changed in our dislike for them.
Uh huh. Once you’ve succeeded in defederating from .ml, in a few months, there will be another instance that neoliberals decide is full of tankies, and it will have always been those 4 instances.
I called it last time and neoliberals don’t change their desire to silence people to their left.
Sure mate. And tankies are not to my left in the slightest.
And .ml is only the “tankie instance” because neoliberals found “tankie” to be an effective cudgel to silence people to their left. They don’t have to be tankies to get the label.
Right, but I am AnCom call them tankies because they support the USSR & China.
You can hate neolibs all you want, that doesn’t change the fact that CTH, Lemmygrad, & .ml are the tankie trifecta.
CTH? I thought Hexbear was the first “tankie instance”
See you when you guys get the urge to karen another instance.
Hexbear is CTH.
When reddit banned CTH, some of the community went and made Hexbear, most of us stayed on reddit and due to the small userbase it become an incestral breeding ground that removed all but the most hardcore tankies and authiechuds leading to the shitheap it is today.
