Only one in 10 feel leaving the EU has helped their finances, while just 9% say it has benefited the NHS, despite £350m a week pledge according to new poll
A clear majority of the British public now believes Brexit has been bad for the UK economy, has driven up prices in shops, and has hampered government attempts to control immigration, according to a poll by Opinium to mark the third anniversary of the UK leaving the EU single market and customs union.
The survey of more than 2,000 UK voters also finds strikingly low numbers of people who believe that Brexit has benefited them or the country.
Just one in 10 believe leaving the EU has helped their personal financial situation, against 35% who say it has been bad for their finances, while just 9% say it has been good for the NHS, against 47% who say it has had a negative effect.
Nothing good in human history has ever come from conservatism. Nothing at all.
You mean a backwards looking ideology doesn’t address the needs of society today and in the future?
Even calling it “backwards” is falling for conservatives’ euphemistic lie. Conservatism has never really been about “upholding tradition” or any of the bullshit they claim; it’s only ever been about authoritarianism and enforcing hierarchy. If it happens to jive with a “tradition” it is only because said tradition is authoritarian and hierarchical.
It’s never really been conservatism, it’s regressivism. They want Feudalism because they think they can be king.
“Conservatism” has always been a euphemism for regressivism. There is no difference between the two concepts, and never was.
To say that “it’s never really been conservatism,” as if there’s a distinction to be made between the abhorrent ideology of conservatives like Trump and some kind of other non-abhorrent version of conservatism, is to be an apologist for it. It’s understandable that you’d make such an error since conservatives spend a lot of effort trying to gaslight the public and launder the reputation of conservative ideology, but nevertheless, the notion that there exists (or has ever existed) some idealized form of conservatism that isn’t thoroughly regressive garbage remains a fallacy.
Yep. There is value in looking at how things are currently done and have been done in the past. There’s no need to reinvent the wheel, and there may have been good reason for some decisions in the past. We had a safety system at work that had some superfluous quirks, but when we went to remove them, we learned the customer had specifically requested it to be that way. On the other end, we learned that we had some poorly designed equipment because we had specifically requested it in the past.
None of that though is what modern conservatives do.
None of that though is what
modernconservatives do.FTFY. Half the point I was trying to make is that the notion about conservatism being about acting with caution isn’t just a lie now, but has always been one. Conservatives have been falsely claiming this ever since the 16th Century!
Fair, yeah. We need a different term for the ideology to separate it from conservatism.
No we don’t.
I think I still haven’t quite made myself understood: The version of conservatism centered around perpetuating social hierarchy is conservatism. We don’t need another name for it because it’s the only kind of conservatism there ever was. The “good” kind of conservatism that’s about caution or moderation that folks keep trying to contrast it with also doesn’t need a name because it’s not actually a thing that exists as a distinct ideology. (I suppose if you really insist on labeling it, you could call it “not-conservatism.”)
Everybody who claims to be the “good” kind of conservative is either (a) a trash conservative who is lying about their motivations, or (b) a confused non-conservative.
What’s the name of the distinct ideology? I completely agree though.
conservatism
Putin worked hard to promote conservative agendas in UK, U.S. and France, to degrade those countries. It worked in all but France.
Yet… Far right is on the highway to the next election
Agreed! France really impresses me. The people there are strong-willed and don’t put up with bullshit. I found myself cheering for them all year this year.
Gosh, if ONLY SOMEONE WOULD HAVE WARNED PEOPLE that brexit was a terrible idea tossed together by fear mongering, self interested dickheads!!! If only someone had mentioned it was a terrible idea ahead of time!
Also if only more than 24% of the voters could have been arsed to vote.
I voted against it, still annoyed.
The vote was cursory, it was not supposed to be binding.
Absolutely. Like in the brexit referendum of 2016, which had a 72% turnout. Not like that referendum you are referencing, which is… Which one exactly?
It’s not like remainers ever put up a convincing argument prior to losing the referendum.
Turned voting age on the referendum, visited our predominantly working class school, only ever brought up cheaper phone calls abroad as to why they should vote to remain.
Brexit only had pull out the weakest reasons to leave becuase they were the only ones who took the referendum seriously.
The reality is that there were a thousand paths back from that cliff. The vote was no binding, and barely a majority. If the British public wanted to halt it they could have just elected non-leave politicians in the years afterwards, but they didn’t.
The problem was that nobody in the UK did an effective job of arguing for remain. They were caught napping because they were convinced that people wouldn’t want to leave.
When they realised that we were in danger of voting to leave it was too late.
Obviously, people in the EU said that it was a bad idea but they obviously would say that because we’re “sending them £350 million a week” and they wouldn’t want to lose that.
The UK spent decades convincing everyone that all bad decisions are made by the EU and all good decisions are made by Westminster. That’s the first mistake.
If the UK had properly educated its citizens about what the EU actually was and did, no remain campaign would’ve been necessary whatsoever. But it was politically convenient to have a scapegoat.
And let’s be honest, remain aka “remoaners” had a ton of arguments all the time. But brexiteers just wanted to enter the magical land where the UK still mattered and they’d eat their cake and have it still.
Everyone saw this coming but still decided to walk off the cliff rather than admit they’d made a bad decision
Pootin and the GRU/IRA were behind the effort mostly waged on social media
Yes this analysis was clear as day even before the referendum passed. The only amazing thing here is that 10% still think it has helped. Wow.
10% is actually amazingly low. I’ve said it before, 25% of any population, any country and time period is dumb as a bag of rocks. So no matter what you’ll always have 25% mouthbreathers. Here even 15% of them realized they’ve been had!
I wouldn’t say everyone, at least. The vote was actually very close, which I think is something most of us forget at this point.
They used the wrong kind of referendum given the seriousness of the question, it should have required a significant majority consensus, instead it was just a “who got more votes even if it just one more”.
The results showed a deeply divided nation, and we still are. Some brexiters do regret their terrible decision, but I don’t forgive them. There was ample information, experts, everything showing what a terrible disastrous idea Brexit was, and they voted for it anyway.
This wasn’t some shades of grey issue, it was surprisingly black and white for once, haha. Which makes it all the more strange that so many people still voted to deeply damage the nation and their own futures.
Oh, and one other point just because I think we often forget, the referendum wasn’t at all binding. The government could have simply said “We’ve taken your thoughts into consideration but decided to do what’s best for the country and stay in the EU, even if this will hurt our political careers. Our duty is to the nation, above even our own careers”.
They…did not say that :-( Instead they got theirs, at all our expenses.
Actually only half of all people saw the obvious downsides. The other half said “nuh uh it’ll be great, way better in fact” with no evidence or facts and folks went with that.
All of the last decade, and most of the last 2, has been calamitous for Great Britain. Brexit is just one on a list of crippling blows dealt to its population.
- NHS, gone
- Home ownership, gone
- Europe, gone
- Education, gone
- wages, gone
- environment- going
- civil rights - going
With no prospect of any of them coming back .
All sold to neoliberalism.
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It’s funny cause I’m here as an imigrant but leaving cause the place is going to shit. So, success?
Ironically one of the only ways forward for them is to open up immigration to more people. GDP is going to be permanently lower unless they go heavy automation like Japan (requiring a lot of capital that is going to be a lot more expensive post-Brexit), or let a lot more people in.
And the problem with heavy automation, as Japan is finding, is that machines and robots don’t generate the income tax revenue needed to pay for an aging population. Hence Japan is finding it necessary to allow more immigration.
NHS stands for National Health Service.
To be fair, a lot of places have these exact problems nowadays.
Just like most informed people predicted.
Imagine voting against Scottish Independence then getting fucked out of the EU immediately afterwards by Brexit.
Britain is Europe’s America.
Europeans would be wise to distance themselves from them.
Gives middle finger to biggest trading partner by far.
Surprised Pikachu face when economy goes to hell.
I cannot fathom the thought process of the Regrexiters.
IF the UK rejoins the EU at any time in the future, we will certainly never have the preferential terms and disproportionate power that we’d originally had. Defacto not as good as a deal. However, STILL much better to be part of the EU than to be circling the drain as we are right now.
I am still furious about Brexit on a personal level. Freedom of movement was amazing. It meant that I could just decide to go live and work in an EU country whenever I wanted. I had previously used this to spend a couple of years in Spain and maybe a year in France. I’d been planning a move to Portugal when Brexit took this away from me. All those opportunities gone because of dumb fuckers who didn’t even realise we had them. Ignorant bigoted wankers. Goes without saying I voted remain. I’d be delighted to rejoin, and if it means we adopt the euro that’s fine with me. It won’t happen for at least a decade though, and at my age that’ll be too late for me.
No, they realised that they had the freedom of movement. The Brexit vote was in part to punish people like you because you still had that freedom.
And getting rid of the unfair preferential terms is good for the EU as a whole, because it will reduce resentment in all other current and potential future member nations.
Don’t get me wrong, I absolutely believe Brexit hurt everyone in Europe and I can’t wait to welcome UK back into the Union, but make it on equal terms. It’s a very small silver lining to the whole fiasco. I just hope it doesn’t take too long for UK to find a leader string enough to say “I think we made a mistake, we should reapply”. Make a new referendum while the populace still realizes the connection between Brexit and the current misery before some populist schmuck finds a new scapegoat.
Agree completely. The old arrangements were compromises to get the original deal dome. That was half a century ago and a lot has changed.
I think it’s best for the EU if the UK doesn’t have preferential treatment.
To me, I never understood the desire to leave. Even the people who being talking heads for Brexit actively benefitied financially from UKs position in the EU. The choice to leave was roused up on a bunch half truths and bold face lies to scare the the general public of hatining anything south of the channel… Despite getting so much benefit.
Smartest thing they could do is beg their way back into the EU and claw back what ever benefits they had enjoyed like stated above there is no scenario where UK ends up good as they were back in 2016 let alone in a better bargaining position, but they also don’t have to throw away their future prosperity based on stubborn pride.
It’s hysteria.
but they also don’t have to throw away their future prosperity based on stubborn pride.
Lol, but they will.
Want it said that if the UK rejoined then they’d have to go on the Euro?
If and when UK is allowed back in, this time they will not be offered all of the opt-outs!
Welcome, Schengen and Euro!
I’m not an economist, but what I have seen is the decline in the value of Sterling since Brexit as well of the downgrading of the UK credit rating. Even if we adopt the Euro, the value of the same goods will still vary between different countries. However, the same silly arguments will arise again saying that the is EU taking over.
Everyone says this, but I think the EU wants Britain back in enough to make some exceptions again. The way I look at it is that it doesn’t hurt to try.
Any sane person would have seen this outcome coming. The leavers were still stuck in the Victorian Era with their mentality.
You say that but people still want to vote for Trump. This kind of jingoistic populism is doing pretty well right around the globe right now
Some wanted to be spiteful. Not sure to whom though
It sounds like cooperation works better than unnecessary contention. Who would have guessed.
The ruling class, which is why they fight cooperation among workers.
No shit, Sherlock.
No fucking shit.
I’m still in disbelief at racist ignorant Tory cunts that voted for this.
Fuck them and their political apathy.
Fuck them and their complete disregard for factual information.
They can now lie in the bed they made, the absolute fools.
Murdoch holds a lot of the blame as well, without that prick taking sides in his newspapers it would never have happened
I hope you can all work to get Tory shit out of your government
And fuck the fucking fucks!! Fuck you, you fuck! You BIG fuck! You massive, whopping, FUCK!
9% say it has benefited the NHS
Are 9% of the UK shareholders of plantir or something? Cunts!
I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
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Facts don’t always say what you want them too. Options can easily be curated for on the other hand.
I don’t understand why it’s a fucking opinion poll when there is actual data to examine.
I think that people tend to take just one or two reference points to decide things like this because it’s too complicated to consider them all.
The points that might have led people to believe that the NHS was improved by Brexit are that we were told that leaving the EU gave us the ability to approve and buy the COVID vaccine more quickly and that we did seem to get it more quickly than the EU.
Oh gee. Who coulda seen that coming, huh?
Glad it happened, though. The total clown show of Brexit very quickly shut up all the Anti-EU trolls.
Reading this in a Minnesotan accent. Ah jeez! Who coulda seen this coming, ha, hon? They really, well, they shot themselves damn near in the foot, didn’t they now? Don’cha know the Eurapeans want to help you now, but these racists ya see, racism always gets in the way of peace. That’s what my mother always said.
Hey UK, Come back into the safety of EU’s warm bosom.
I’m not an expert on foreign affairs, but from what I understand, UK got kind of a sweetheart deal to be included in EU originally.
I doubt very seriously they will get such a sweet heart deal next time, since they are proven an unreliable and fickle partner… and thats on the pretense they are allowed back in at all.
They would absolutely get allowed back. They were one of the most important economic and military powers in the EU.
But you are absolutely right in the whole “deal” thing. No pound, yes Schengen, no national exceptions, no fishing great deals and of course, EU military is a must. No more veto to the joint military for sure.
After that is clear, they would be allowed back for sure. Maybe they can keep the password as a gesture.
I got downvoted hard for saying this before, but while I don’t think the UK would get all of it’s benefits back, I think that they would get to retain some privileges - at the cost of others.
It’s not because the UK is great or anything. The sole reason I believe the EU would welcome back the UK with open arms is to keep the UK as a friendly example of how badly your economy can fuck up after leaving. History shows that you don’t kick someone when they’re down, you bring them back, and form them into a useful ally.
IMO, the same deal wouldn’t make sense anyway, because the UK is far weaker than they were previously. Let the UK keep the pound, but lose any special veto rights they once had.
I understand that the pound would be an absolute moral need for the UK, but for me It would be the first thing that would be demanded to drop. A UK in eurozone would be key to the strength of the Euro.
If the UK is smart the fighting ring would be the London City privileges. That’s where money is.
But ultimately I do agree that they would keep some small things but to the eyes of the other members, they must be “punished” in all the other important areas just to keep the flock together.
Just to clarify for anyone reading: these are opinions, not facts.
It would be fair if they had no special exceptions, but it would be a large failure by negotiators if they proposed that. A few exceptions as a show of graciousness would go a long way, and probably do more to thwart any other brexit mentalities than being strict would.
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The UK can apply and get in line like the others, which should be long enough for UK laws to be EU-compliant, no special treatment.
Scotland should secede and apply first, though.
I don’t understand this argument re Scotland. Brexit was a disaster for a country which had been a member with a trading block for a few decades and which only had some regulatory compliance laws on its own books to amend.
Scotland has been fully integrated into the UK economy, political system, and legal system, etc for hundreds of years. It would be many many times more painful and damaging for them to leave, and joining the EU after who knows how many years of sitting up there isolated wouldn’t make up for what Scotland would lose by leaving the UK.
We should be arguing for more cooperation and bigger unions, not smaller ones. Further devolved powers, a better system for representation of the nations in parliament, kicking out the Tories and bringing in more beneficial policies for the UK, etc should be the priority imo. Not even more -exits.
