The sweetener is aspartame
it’s always aspartame
The “solution” was diazepam.
1, it’s aspartame
2, Mice aren’t humans, and routinely, things that happen in mice do not happen in humans. It is not at all indicative of anything and can really only be used as a hint better than nothing for looking into similar effects in humans.
You don’t need to change your diet, and you certainly don’t need to replace it with sugar.
*But drinking a glass of water from time to time won’t kill you either.
Not to mention that the gene pool of these lab mice is super small. Source: my brother is a PhD biochemist and lectured me often on this shit when I said, “hey, look at this study!”
Such a small groups are fine for initial investigation, they have enough of a size to be acceptable statistically for most of the performed studies. I don’t think they’d get approval from ethical committee overseeing animal experiments without initial study like this to conduct something on very high groups.
Guarantee the study also states that you have to consume an ungodly amount of it too…
News reports grab on to stuff like this all the time. Like what they did with safrole.
The article actually states how much. 15% of the daily recommended amount.
I stand corrected! That’s a ridiculously small amount!
I am a relatively recent transplant from the red place, I can tell I ain’t in Kansas anymore, actual good information being up voted so cool.
Aspartame is, because of all the claims against it, the single most studied food substance known, and it seems to somehow keep coming okay. There are a lot of studies with really bad methods that were a smear job attempt but science doing what it does they were labeled for what they are and disregarded. Is it possible to be allergic and a reaction to be anxiety sure, but that is not on the food.
Comment paid for Big Aspartame.
Deep Sugar take
I see the Nutrasweet Lobbyists Association is here too!
How much is Big Sugar paying you?
Not enough :(
Big aspertame made that account 6 months ago, posted 1300 unrelated comments, just for this one moment…
The long con!
Removing all forms of added sugar would probably make everyone feel better. Even minimizing natural sugar intake.
Sugar is terrible, there’s no doubt about it. Artificial or otherwise.
There’s no research that indicates the currently used artificial sweeteners are bad for you.
Theres mixed analysis over the decades, actually, and different groups have different conclusions.
https://www.everydayhealth.com/diet-nutrition/sweet-n-low-dangers-still-exist/
Overall, id say limiting added sugars (natural or artificial) is rpobably better for your health long term
Artificial sugars and sweeteners are, by and large, very different things. Aspartame isn’t a sugar of any sort.
I want to be super clear if anyone finds this and thinks maybe…
No, there is no evidence of artificial sweeteners causing harm. There is no conspiracy, and after many many studies over decades, nothing has been found. If there had been, then the artificial sweeteners would have been banned like the ones you’ve never heard of because we all banned them for causing problems.
If you drink regular soda today, you should absolutely look at replacing that with a diet varient without sugar. From everything we have learned over decades, it’s absolutely safe.
A few people are replying with links (of various relevance) but you are just saying “no” and claiming you’re being “super clear”. Some of the replies are directly contraindications of the claim:
If you drink regular soda today, you should absolutely look at replacing that with a diet varient without sugar.
Your counterpoint is saying they are “absolutely safe”. I don’t know whether you are right or wrong. It’s not anywhere near my field, but I can say I don’t find your rhetoric convincing.
Edit: I fucked up and pasted the wrong quote. I changed the quote to the one I meant.
You do not need to find my rhetoric “convincing.” One person posted one link, the link was to a meta study that concludes that artificial sweeteners have no evidence that they cause harm.
I am being clear, I am not using confusing language, and I’m stating one thing, over and over. I’m doing this because other people are muddying the water with poor claims, and I do not want anyone reading this thread to come away with the idea that maybe the artificial sweeteners are bad. There is no evidence. Again, I’m being super clear. There is absolutely no evidence, and they are absolutely safe. There is no evidence that suggests they are not absolutely safe.
This place is full of nerds like you and me, and they like to be pandantic. I’m being clear, and using phrases like “absolutely safe” is the correct terminology when we know of no evidence to suggest otherwise.
Again, artificial sweeteners are as far as we know, and we have studied them a lot, absolutely safe and you should consider replacing your sugar intake with them or reducing your sugar intake entirely if you can. Sugar is a large cause of health problems.
the link was to a meta study that concludes that artificial sweeteners have no evidence that they cause harm.
This is how the meta study concludes:
Results from prospective cohort studies suggest the possibility of long-term harm in the form of increased risk of obesity, type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases and mortality. Further research is needed to determine whether the observed associations are genuine or a result of reverse causation and/or residual confounding. Further research is also needed in children and pregnant women, the latter for which prospective cohort studies currently suggest possible unfavourable effects of NSS consumption on birthweight and adiposity in offspring later in life.
The scientists who produced the study seem a lot less convinced than you.
are as far as we know
Who is we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?
My point is that you are just some voice on the internet. When I say I don’t find your rhetoric convincing, I mean that the only evidence you offer is rhetoric. And that is not convincing regardless of how clear you are speaking.
Ten-Week Sucralose Consumption Induces Gut Dysbiosis and Altered Glucose and Insulin Levels in Healthy Young Adults
Where are the hydrohomies?
You’re using overly broad language. Multiple family members and myself get brutal headaches from aspartame. While that’s certainly not life threatening damage, it is fair to call that a harmful effect. I am not better off with many products switching to aspartame as a sweetener.
Yes, it is just an anecdote, but it’s enough to show that absolute statements don’t usually hold universally. Please stay open to the possibility of nuance.
“Absolutely safe” sounds false. Pure water isnt “absolutely” safe after all
Please be overly pandantic somewhere else, it’s not useful here.
Seemed fair to me, youre using strong words like “absolutely safe”, even though there are known reactions to various sweeteners and they arent “absolutely” safe, as per the link I cited above.
I can’t tell what this is supposed to convey. They asked for a study. You give a bare url to an abstract with the quote
there is no clear consensus on whether non-sugar sweeteners are effective for long-term weight loss or maintenance, or if they are linked to other long-term health effects at intakes within the ADI.
Are you agreeing with the post you are replying to?
They asked for a study. You give a bare url to an abstract with the quote
Perhaps you could download the entire meta study that is linked next to the abstract and go through it? And why does it matter whether I’m agreeing with the post?
From all the years of reading about artificial sugar studies, it’s clear to me that there could be a risk but it is complex and varies from person to person, I find it misplaced to shout that there is absolutely no risk involved. To quote the study:
Result of this review largely agree with those of other recent systematic reviews, in that replacing sugars with NSS in the short term results in reductions in body weight, with little impact on other cardiometabolic risk factors, but is associated with increased risk of type 2 diabetes, cardiovascular diseases and mortality in the longer term.
Perhaps you could download the entire meta study that is linked next to the abstract and go through it?
No, I am not refereeing a paper because some commenter links it in a web forum. Why would you think that’s even close to what anyone should do in this environment?
So let me get this straight, someone asks for a study, I provide the study of studies, which you misjudge originally for being only an abstract, and then when I correct you and tell you it’s a study, suddenly it’s not good enough. What do you actually want?
Eh, IIRC there’s research that if you eat incredible amounts it’ll likely be bad for you. But it’s a lot and the equivalent amount of sugar would be way way worse.
Eh, IIRC there’s research that if you eat incredible amounts it’ll likely be bad for you. But it’s a lot and the equivalent amount of sugar would be way way worse.
there’s little research to show sugar dangers to be more than correlation
fat people eat a lot of sugar. fat people also eat a lot. eating a lot is how you get fat, drinking calories just happens to be a fast track to getting fat. diet soda happens to be physiologically like drinking water. fat people drink diet instead of sugar coke thats already 200-1000 calories of their day GONE with very very minimal change.
then those fat people supplement the lost sugars with more food and they gain weight. then you get studies showing GUYS DIET SODA CAUSES WEIGHT GAIN (in fat people)
but no its not the sugar its not the macros its YOU eating too much and you can eat less to lose weight that’s just simple science. body types, “nuance”, “bad metabolism”. none of that shits real it all stems from shitty dietary choices and lack of muscle.
all of this to say unless theres medical issues or medical intervention your weight and body type is 100% in your control should you choose to take control
How about all the research that shows sugar is addictive AF
Of course sugar is addictive as fuck - you would literally die without it.
self control is a thing everything is addictive in some facet refined sugars just happens to trigger a stronger dopamine response than other things.
but in the end of the day self control is necessary nobody can control you except you. so dont blame sugars addicitiveness for being overweight if you are. its solely an overeating issue.
I feel like you underestimate addiction. “Self control” is what’s needed to not start smoking; but it takes something stronger to quit smoking, I think – a more refined willpower than simple “self control”.
And sure, it’s something a person could cultivate and train on their own with time and focus. But so are most other things. “Why aren’t you good at drawing? All you need to do is practice every day! it’s simple.”
Absolutely nothing wrong with a diet high in fruit and veg, both of which contain significant amounts of sugar.
You are correct, the caveat “added sugar” or added sweetener in this case is the important bit.
Fructose doesn’t have the same health effects of sucrose for some reason and the sugar you eat in fruit and veg come with fiber which helps keep our blood sugar from spiking.
I was shocked to learn that dates, which are basically candy, have a pretty reasonable glycemic index.
Except that guy wrote:
Even minimizing natural sugar intake.
Which precludes fruit and a good deal of veg.
Fair point. Have a happy new year!
Fruits make me just as sick as any other source of sugar. Fruit is just candy in a natural wrapper.
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Your lemon curd is full of thickener (egg yolk) and sugar (honey) too.
What thickener did they use? Soy lecithin? That’s the same thickener as found in your egg yolks.
What sugar? Just regular sugar? That has a similar glycemic index as honey.
Concentrated lemon juice is just lemon juice without the water. Was there also water in the recipe?
Sounds like your stomach trouble was due to something else. I’m not saying the lemon curd you bought was good quality, but it probably wasn’t much different than what you make. And those scary ingredients are the same as the ones that you already use.
Probably the “more than a few” they ate.
Overconsumption leads to health issues? More at 9.
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The biggest question in this thread, who would downvote this?
Probably people who are a bit sketch about the “even natural sugars” bit, since that removes a TON of otherwise healthy food options. Minimize added sugar, sure.
Sugar shills and don’t touch my diet coke ppl in this thread doing Spidermanpointing.jpg
Stevia crew represent.
Stevia is great, but I really love monk fruit. No licorice root like aftertaste. I have more of a problem with the carcinogenic preservative they always pair with aspartame personally.
The only good Natural Low calorie sweetner
J prefers that munkmunk sauce
So my problems are because my mom is addicted to diet coke? It’s all adding up!
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What problems do you have?
The control was plain water. That seems like the sort of methodological flaw that would preclude a study from publication in a journal like PNAS.
Can you elaborate why do you think that water is improper control?
They’re providing a sweetener at all times. That alone would have some affect, so I’d think you’d want another sweetenere like sucrose, glucose, some other artificial sweetener, in addition to a water treatment. Alternatively, a dose response could be informative. They did have different doses of aspartame, but in both groups of mice (male and female), the dose response was opposite what you’d expect; the lower dose had a larger effect.
Wow, lots of astroturfed opinions defending aspartame.
It’s not astroturfing it’s people sick of these studies where they pump ungodly amounts of aspartame into mice until they get a reaction. Aspartame doesn’t do anything at the levels humans consume it, it’s one of the most studied compounds in food.
It said it was like 15% of human recommended intake.
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Sorry legit haven’t read the article but sounds like you have, so I’ll ask for clarity
Would that be the equivalent of a 15% daily recommended dose, as adjusted by weight for a rat, or is it literally 15% of the daily allowance of a human, pumped into the rat? Because the latter is definitely more of what vibe I get from the previous poster.
When a sample of mice were given free access to water dosed with aspartame equivalent to 15 percent of the FDA’s recommended maximum daily amount for humans, they generally displayed more anxious behavior in specially designed mood tests.
Cool, so it’s 15% of the RDA for humans, divided by whatever the avg weight difference between a rat and a human is, right? Or similar? That’s the best interpretation of that quote, though it is still a bit ambiguous lol
I read it as the rat equivalent of 15% for humans.
Yeah, that’s what I get now. I would like if they had a more specific rundown of how that number was calculated, and how much water it was in / the rats consumed. May be in the article or study, still haven’t actually read it and don’t have the time ATM.
That quote makes it sound like it’s not adjusted by weight. But it also doesn’t mention the aspartame to water ratio, or how much of the water that the rats drank.
And cigarettes don’t cause cancer, and burning fossil fuels doesn’t cause global warming, and…
Ultimately life causes cancer. All of these things accelerate the speed that cancer tends to develop but, well… I doubt a cigarette a day will significantly impact your life expectancy. The dose makes the poison, after all.
Glad to see the “everything positive is astroturfing” clowns made their way over from reddit, too.
The important thing is you found a way to feel superior to both without needing to voice your opinion.
Any evidence to back up the assertion that they are shills, or is it just an empty ad hominem because you can’t address an actual point?
To be clear, fuck that aspartame garbage.
Any reason you think I should care about your opinion on anything, at all?
But to address your question, maybe it has something to do with walls of replies that read like a PR script. Use your head for more than memes.
So, no, you have no evidence to back up the assertion, it’s just how you feel.
Use your head for more than memes.
If blaming me for your inability to back up your claims is your definition “using your head” I’m happy to continue going through life without doing so.
You do you, bro/chick.
Yes, I definitely plan to do that. Thanks for the permission. Lol
I mean, if the choice is between sugar and aspartame… seems like an easy choice to make - the science should speak for itself
I’ve been dabbling with stevia but last time I put to packets in my tea and it was apparently too much and I did not feel well after
Choice should be sugar, just a lot less of it
I tried stevia, also, and it’s too sweet.
Mice lie, monkeys exaggurate.
This is a study on a small number of mice using a measure of anxiety which does not directly map to humans. Using mice for a study like this is fine for a pilot study but this has not clinical significance and can be safely ignored by the scientific press as well as the public. When we see a long term study which is double blinded in humans with reasonable doses, good controls, and hopefully some sort of mechanism of action then we can pay attention. Until then, aspartame has been linked to everything under the sun and yet nothing has been shown to be meaningful yet. It is one of the most well studied substances in the human diet and it seems to be at the very least mostly fine. Worry about lead in your water before you worry about this.
I think I’ll pass on the opinion of someone who can’t spell “exaggerate.”
Cool, fair enough, I do have a little trouble with spelling and that is fine. Of course it could be software, learning difficulties, or just a bad day, but feel free to discard all the words I spelled correctly. Also, if you are in the US including the full stop in your quotation is typical but in the rest of the world you would keep the punctuation outside the quotes unless it is what you are quoting, otherwise the sentence doesn’t have its own full stop.
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as someone with dyslexia, i agree, honestly if it can be understood and its in a forum then why should it matter, its not like you’ve written a medical journal or legal binding letter
Cool, take the low hanging ad hom, instead of actually interacting with the statement. Also it’s “exaggerate”.
In my research to find a substitute for mom’s sugar intake, Stevia came down to being the safest and most reliable, albeit not the best flavor substitute, necessarily.
And avoid Erythritol above all else.
And it still is too.
Well, shit.
I wonder if the inherited anxious behaviour is through epigenetics or learned from the parents?
My theory, and again it’s just a theory, anxiousness from things you eat is your body stressing out that you can’t process it or something. Of course, it needs more studies, but you could inherit slight allergies and the learned behavior.
My understanding is your body processes aspartame just fine. It’s just much sweeter than cane sugar so you have to use less than a calorie to achieve the same effect as a hundred calories of cane sugar.
That might be true? I just know how it affects me, Human studies are just people like you and me giving their feedback as to whether or not something gives them symptoms or not. I definitely get that angst with aspertame. So, even if it’s a small percentage that are effected by it, I would be included in that small percentage.
Aspartame is shit. It tastes like shit and it’s dangerous. I have an aspartame story but it’s gonna draw the astroturfers and coporate cucks, so just refer back to my first two statements here.
