I only sacrificed sleep a bit in the first 3 years until both my kids were sleeping through the night. In no time they are school age, then off to university. The people I often see represented by the women in the comic are those who are married to their jobs, not parents. If you don’t want kids, fine, don’t have them but many parents think their kids are one of the best parts of their lives. Things that are the most worthwhile in your life often take a bit of work or challenge.
We got the second kid when the first one was almost 4. It was pretty rough, we where just getting back our sleep, and went in 2+ years of irregular sleep. She is 2 and a half now and thankfully sleep is getting much better.
If you have a kid and thinking about a second one, I would recommend don’t wait 3+ years, or wait 5+ years so you have a bit of time to recover.
I feel like this cartoon was drawn by someone who doesn’t have kids. Or didn’t want them but got them.
Be fulfilled without kids or with them. Don’t be fulfilled by judging those who have chosen different from you.
My interpretation of this comic was that it is making fun of the parts of having a kid that they don’t tell you about, not that it was being judgemental towards anyone.
Sure, it is being hyperbolic, but hyperbole is common feature of humor.
As a parent of two I really enjoy talking about this. It’s such a complex topic. Yeah you sacrifice a lot, sleep, time, sanity, but you kinda unlock a whole new level of your life, in your mind. I wouldn’t want to change it back, ever.
Just yesterday I read about cultural neoteny. Our society is so safe, that people don’t have to mentally mature to full grown adults anymore. No famine, no war, no oppression, no violence to deal with (yet). We can stay teenager forever, being unable to deal with criticism, lacking resilience, unwilling to take responsibilities, cultivating out sensitivities that then clash with other peoples sensitivity.
Again, this is not the place for a long conversations, but I can’t help but feel that the constant joke “look at those stupid parents giving up their lifes” may be a part of that. There is some truth to it though. I am a little burned out, I may have dropped some life goals along the way. But then again, what’s the purpose of being alive?But then again, what’s the purpose of being alive?
Apparently dragging people from peaceful nonexistence into existence without their consent so that during their lifetime they will endure a lot of suffering, admittedly experiencing some transient joys along the way but doomed to one day have to undergo the agony of getting sick and dying, after which everything that happened during their life will have been meaningless, given that one day (in the near or far future) there will be no humans left and so even how their life affected other people will have been for naught?
I mean, that does not seem like a great life purpose to me, but you do you I guess?
dragging people from peaceful nonexistence into existence without their consent
The male body gave consent to copy itself before ejaculating and the female body also consented to copy itself. Both copies agreed to merge and create a new copy —the child. So technically, we did consent to being born. (Except when the mother has been raped, or throughout the pregnancy was denied abortion because of some stupid law — a timeframe allowed for one party to withdraw that consent).
when I see a cute baby smile at me, its like a sims moodlet. “I need one of those. Why dont I have one of those”. After 24 ish hours I remember babysitting and caring for my sibling and cousin, and quickly go back to normal. 30 and childless.
Real talk. I said the exact same thing and didn’t plan to have kids. My wife and I didn’t have kids until she was 36.
Babysitting a cousin is not the same as parenting your own kin. It’s completely different.
Depends heavily on how indepth that “babysitting is”. When that Abby sitting involves cooking two meals a day for them, taking them two and from school, changing their diapers at 3am and taking them to the doctor.
All because their parents are too drunk and at the bar instead of home… Well
I fucking babysat my cousins and it was more raising them then anything their parents did
It’s not about what you do that makes the difference. It’s just having your kin changes the dynamics.
With my son, I’m imprinting him with everything and teaching him how I want to. The random tasks(like diapers, feeding, etc) that needs to be done is just a requirement for this imprinting.
My entire life’s from how I was raised when I was a kid to adulthood is solely on my shoulders. Every decision is no longer about me. It’s for them. My entire life’s purpose is to have my kids grow up how I want them to grow up.
With babysitting someone else’s kid, it’s just a task. A snippet, a small part of the entire process.
At 47 and my wife recently birthing our 2nd child, my only regret is not having kids sooner.
“I had no children. I haven’t transmitted the legacy of our misery to any creature”— Machado de Assis (1881)
The best birth control is other people’s children.
I used to agree but my hormones tell me otherwise.
Clapping ovaries, eh? That’s the noise that IT’S BABY-MAKING TIIIIIIME!
That’s “klapperende eierstokken” in Dutch, BTW.
I gotta say, it’s been the exact opposite for me.
One couple has kids, and everyone passes around the baby making cooing faces. Six months later, half the block is pregnant.
Add in that there’s this reflexive desire in a big community of like-aged friends/family for our kids to be friends, too. My wife has eight or nine different cousins who are all her age. And we all had kids within a year or two of one another.
Having a kid will fill that void inside you of “wtf am I doing with my life”. At least for me it did, purpose and responsibility made me happy.
I would be absolutely destroyed if I had dumb little copy of me that I was required to take care of.
I understand now why my dad was so distant and eventually went away.
Having an insane mother helps, too.
<3 sending love friendo
Father for 12 years here, never have I ever said anything even remotely close of this sort to any my non kids / single friends, is it an American thing?
It’s a self-marketing/preservation thing.
When the kids are infants, the parents are sleep deprived and miserable at times, we they get such a seretonin boost from the baby factor so they don’t kill them (yay evolution). They advocate for others to have kids because it feels so great.
When they hit their slightly difficult years, that seretonin boost starts to drop, work/life balance becomes harder, financial hardship starts to hit as they need to feed them more and provide them outside activities. They still take pride in their kids, but need to tell everyone how awesome it is, but they especially need to tell themselves.
When they hit their teens, they’re now providing adult prices for things. Cars, Insurance. There’s little money left and little disillusion. If they had the kids late in life, their earning potential will end up dropping just as the kids leave home making bucket list plans harder to reach.
It’s worse in the US because we have shitty work/life balance and almost total lack of public transportation / affordable heathcare.
The childless fare better and live more comfortably.
And we wonder why populations are in decline.
Maybe it’s cause they don’t get as much time off work to care for their kids as Europeans do?
American father here. Not as far as I know. I tell folks don’t have kids unless you’re 100% sure. Even then, get a pet first. I love my kid. But boy, do I sure believe folks should get all sorts of tests before they decide now.
Kids are hard man, especially if you didn’t have a good example growing up.
I hear you man, I was just always curious how often actually the issue comes up in a normal chill time with friends or even in a normal conversation with coworkers, unless people ask me specifically for advice, or ask about my kids, it’s not something that just comes up naturally…I’m here aren’t I? Trying to enjoy my time with you, nothing more, If I wanted to air out my frustrations, there’s definitely a time and a place
it helps to be enslaved to a system that forces you to spend an average of 8 hours a day working only to be classified as part time while getting no health benefits whatsoever despite there being essentially no government healthcare
*I’m including excessive commute and non-paid work as “working”
I’ve heard similar from people, usually the “you’ll change your mind when you find the right person”. I am from the US.
The worst was a conversation I had with coworkers. I mentioned I didn’t want kids because it would be really hard on my body to be pregnant after a near fatal car crash (back broken and lost a major organ). One gal said she thinks all women should have a baby. So I said, if I change my mind I can always adopt. She said “I think all women should have their own baby, it makes you a real woman. Adopting isn’t the same as having your own, there is not the same level of love there”. Worst part, she said this in front of another coworker who was adopted from a not great situation into a very loving and supportive family.
She was a misogynistic asshat about other things too.
Wow, that’s just messed up, never really understood why people don’t just mind their own business, even if you 100% in great health and decided to not have kids, it’s absolutely still your own decision…why should you or anyone if that matters be judged for it.
I 100% agree with you. I’m extremely happy for friends who want and have kids and I’m extremely happy for friends who don’t want and don’t have kids. I do not keep people like her in my personal life and I was so happy when I switched teams.
She was very much into, you can only be a Real Womantm if you follow these guidelines:
- Make babies from your own body
- Marry a man
- Have long hair (she was even weirder about this part)
She would always say weird shit like that when looking directly at me; an unwed by choice, childless by choice, woman with a mohawk. She was just a bitter dick about a lot of stuff and big mess. In my experience, stuff like that usually comes from people who are generally unhappy with something in their own life, thankfully it’s not a common occurrence.
Absolutely not. My boss is Persian and she shows me baby pictures all the goddamn time to “make me want to have kids”. Never mind the fact that we’ve been trying for 3 years and are way down the IVF road. God help me if she ever actually sees a baby.
Fuck you, boss.
It’s a childless person thing. Very much an outsider “I only see my friends when they’re looking for time out” perspective.
If you want to see this in spades, you can go through the back catalog of Penny Arcade. Pre-kids, there was a ton of this “Oh no! Kids are the worst! They get in the way of all my drunken debauchery and time-consuming hobbies.” Post-kids, its a tidal wave of “Look at what my son can do! Look at what my daughter is into!” and they’re going out of their way to make life as fun and fulfilling as possible for the next generation, because that’s what they know they craved at that age.
I’m starting to just be the person they want us to be because screw them. Like you said I’ve never seen any comic or media rubbing in the face of people with kids like these people without kids love to cry about. It’s watching a guy in the cuck chair cry. You put yourself there, quiet down.
I am childfree 33, childfree both by choice and by economic circumstances. I have a intense aversion towards baby’s, doesn’t mean others shouldn’t get them. I used to think that instead of having kids, I could just be the cool uncle that babysits sometime. Turns out I really dislike babys. So, probably should never get my own.
Sometimes I get tempted by the wish, but then I am reminder that I prefer the risk of regretting not having children, then risking regretting having children. And while I do subscribe to the anti-natalist worldview, that only should dictate my actions, not those of other people.
I am very lucky to have a partner who is also childfree by choice.
Honestly as a father I agree that being a parent is the hardest thing I’ve done in my life but, I’m also so fucking tired of the “it’s hell” joke.
My older dughter is now a teenager with all the trouble that entails and the selfishness she has but still there are no words to describe how much she helps when needed, how hard of a pilar she is to me, how caring and loving she is…Oh wait there is one…
Family
🥹
About to be 43 and more grateful every year that my partner and I are childfree. I like hanging out with my friend’s kids occasionally, they can be funny tiny humans, but I hit a limit quickly and we invariably share a sigh of relief once we’re in the car on our way home.
I’m also grateful that there are folks who love kids and are great, involved parents to them. I’m in awe of my friend’s ability to be the mom she is and I appreciate her efforts to better the collective group of humanity by two. Even more grateful that I was free to make a different choice. It takes all kinds, ya know? And kids benefit from unofficial “aunties”, I think.
Kids’ parents generally benefit from unofficial “aunties” too!
Humans were never meant to take care of babies as couples or alone.
Research suggests that given the tradeoffs of our evolutionary path, we had to shift towards a collective parenting (call it tribe, clan, extended family, etc.)
The modern “individualization” of the person is what has convinced us that such parenting form is “normal” and bearable, and that if you feel overwhelmed, there is something wrong with you.
Parent of 1.5y here.
Without grandparents in picture I would go crazy.
I dont know where i heard it, but “children should not have only 2 parents”. Meaning the grandparents, uncles, everyone else should parent the child somewhat.
The cliché quote is “it takes a village to raise a child” and I agree. In Western nuclear family culture, that “village” has largely been forgotten.
Most people who are “childfree”, or even anti-natalist, don’t hate children. In a more cooperative society, many would definitely slot into that mentor/cool adult role; myself included.
At least kids eventually leave, with pets you get to watch them slowly waste away and die in the most expensive ways possible.
Kids can be like that too
Damn… dark.
I mean it is the truth. Bad things can happen to people, and people should put more thought into that before having kids
No shit. Raising kids is an act of love and sacrifice.
If you aren’t willing to do this, do NOT have kids!
There’s definitely this strain of “Why would I ever want to sacrifice for anyone else? Who could possibly deserve that much love?” coming off these comic artists and their readership.
It reeks of alienation and despair. Like, that final panel of the comic might as well be of the artist themself. Alone, on a roof, half conscious, rings under the eyes - that’s more than a few people I knew back in college.
I’m married, 41, and childless by choice. I like this comic because it validates my consistent experience with arrogant parents acting as though I’m not truly mature or fulfilled because I haven’t become a father.
There is no subtext of alienation or despair in my enjoyment. To the contrary, both my wife and I are largely satisfied with our lives and content with our choice to not force another human being into the fucking cruel absurdity of this world.
I like this comic because it highlights my consistent experience with arrogant parents acting as though I’m not truly mature or successful because I haven’t procreated.
That’s not what the comic shows at all. It ends with a solitary burned out person pinning for the past.
There is no subtext of alienation or despair in my enjoyment.
Presumably because you’re not the one who wrote the cartoon.
Are you blind? The first two panels show the female character pretentiously telling an adult male he’ll understand satisfaction when he “grows up” and has a child.
You referred to the comic AND it’s readers holding feelings of alienation and despair. Did you already forget what you typed?
The first two panels show the female character pretentiously telling an adult male
With the implication that it’s a lie, and the truth is in the fourth panel, yes.
You referred to the comic AND it’s readers
If you’re sympathizing with the artist, you’re buying into this dystopian fantasy of how the artist’s burned out friend “really feels”, yes.
But this is coming from inside the artist’s brain.
With the implication that it’s a lie, and the truth is in the fourth panel, yes.
“Dystopian fantasy”? It’s a god damn internet comic not a polemical essay on the ethical superiority of antinatalism. It ain’t that deep, bro.
