Under the order, private businesses can choose to display signage indicating that ICE cannot enter without a warrant—thereby designating “their property as part of a city-wide network of community spaces that stand together in affirming the safety, dignity, and belonging of all of our residents,” the mayor said.
Johnson touted the order for building “a broad civic shield that limits the reach of harmful enforcement practices. It strengthens neighborhood solidarity and it reaffirms Chicago’s role as a welcoming city.”
States need to be putting out their own narratives and setting rules, not just letting the rump regime set the narrative (“Portland is burning to the ground!”, “Chicago is a war zone, the most dangerous city in the world!” etc). They should use their own messaging. And states should band together to take a stand.
Here’s an example of the type of propaganda and tactics that Governors, mayors, etc. should use:
Aren’t there thousands of well trained former park rangers that need something to do & might have a bit of an axe to grind?
I know where I live they already meet all the requirements for state law enforcement. Deputize them. Have them show up anywhere ICE is, 100-200 deep. Demand to see their law enforcement credentials, every time. If they refuse, arrest them.
If they get violent, “pacify” them.
please accept this Lemmy Gold
The single biggest hurdle we have is how much the media loves Donald Trump. You could have the perfect narrative that convinces 100% of viewers to switch sides and it still wouldn’t matter if 3x as many people heard his lies. You’d still lose. The right owns the media at this point and there’s basically no way you’re reaching half of the goobers Trump is. I’d bet most Americans couldn’t even name their reps.
Not suggesting you or anybody else does so, but… If I were running a counter op, the first thing I’d do was bring down right wing media centers by targeting their transmitters. Splinter their national voice. Next you’d need to hit social media sites, but that’s a different tactic where you’d essentially need a bot army to make them unusable by dumping massive amounts of AI slop nonsense (they’re halfway there themselves TBH). You’d still have an uphill battle convincing the cult to switch, but at least you’d stand a chance.
It’s true that the media focuses on trump. That’s why the rhetoric directed at him by Newsom and Pritzker has worked to get plenty of media attention. The conflict of governors either mocking or talking tough to him and his reacting to them appeals to the media, which gives the opening for opponents to get their messaging out. Of course as you say, they’ll spin it in trump’s favor as best they can, but they’ll report what is said.
As you say, right wing media has been a major factor getting us here, but that now includes all the corporate-owned major broadcasters, especially CBS and CNN but the others as well, not just Fox, Newsmax etc. All the major network and social media is already aligned with the regime. So it’s a bit late for that.
Tump is insane. If I were mayor or governor, there is no way in hell I’m risking my own safety for this. If he starts messing with elections, sure because he becomes a persistent threat even for me. Otherwise I’d wait it out
“I’m a pussy”
Have you killed any ice agents? No? Why not? Don’t tell me you are scared.
What would it take for you to risk you life for your job?
You’re scared, and that’s okay. Don’t try to wriggle free. Just accept who you are and know that there are others who are much more brave.
Oh. Of course I’d be scared. I think that the people demanding this form others are hypocrites. If you haven’t risked your life opposing ice, you have no right demanding others do so
If you aren’t willing to do that you have no business being a mayor or governor. Protecting the people you represent comes with the gig.
Protecting? Yes
Risking your life? No
That said, if you postulate to mayor now that trump is in power, you should expect thing to get violent
We are well past the point where protecting people entails a risk. We have been since the first term, you cannot have one without the other in the current climate. If these governors and mayors can’t accept the fact they need to resign and let someone with a spine have the reigns
If?! He’s been doing that out in the fucking open for nearly five years…
I might not remember this correctly but didn’t he basically say “so if I declare a state of war I can postpone elections indefinitely?”. That is what I’m talking about. Everyone messes with elections to win, and even that fact he didn’t do 2 consecutive terms is kind of proof that he didn’t take it as far as he would have liked. That is fine-ish: it’s very damaging, but at least it has an end date and could be never elected again. But when he postpones elections, now you are In real trouble, because the ONLY option is a revolution
He said a lot of crazy shit like that since he was first elected. The thing I was referring to is that he and his circle deliberately riled up a crowd to the point of storming the capitol, obstructed the response to the attack, and only back-paddled when it was clear the scheme had utterly failed. That was a coup attempt. He openly tried to subvert the constitutional order. And then the weak response given to that by the opposition made it possible for him to get re-elected four years later. And it was already clear what he would be doing, he told everyone who would listen from the very start what he would do and then proved it beyond any doubt on January 6th.
So not only did he already attempt a coup because his ego couldn’t take the loss (i.e. “messing with elections”), but beyond that his party is aggressively gerry-mandering their own states, they are messing with the election related laws, they are trying to acquire voter registrations from Democratic states. Trump has openly questioned the two term limit for presidents, he sells Trump 2028 merch for fucks sake, he constantly threatens political opponents in public, has said he would like to be king or dictator, and so on and so forth. It couldn’t be any clearer where this is going. How much more proof do you need before you will accept that he is a “persistent threat” to the constitutional republic?
Such naive hope.
I agree mostly with your message, however, a city mayor cannot dictate policy and procedure to any federal entity. They would also likely be opening themselves up to all sorts of liability, i.e. lawsuits for arresting a federal agent. Worst case scenario is CPD getting into a shootout with ICE.
Now unfortunately, before you ask and I’m sure you’ve been pondering it, I don’t have a lot of answers for you in what they should do. It’d basically be career suicide for most of these people in power and while I do agree it’s the noble thing to do, it’s also not necessarily intelligent to offer yourself up on a platter and most certainly be replaced with a pro Trump puppet once you’re removed.
America certainly has itself in a pickle. Good luck
Who says who can and can’t dictate policy now? There are no longer any rules. Laws are violated continuously by the very government that is supposed to follow and enforce them. The Constitution is nothing but a piece of paper now. A right-wing authoritarian power, enthusiastically supported by at least a third of the populace, has control of all three branches of the federal government. Troops are being deployed against the residents of states and cities the regime doesn’t like. The federal funding they are owed is being withheld. There is no more “you can’t do that”, there’s only strategy and tactics on how to deal with the situation. The available options are shrinking every day.
NYT just ran an article today, interviewing academics who study countries that have slid from Democracy into Authoritarianism
Quote from Prof. Sean Westwood :
It’s not revenge when ICE is openly violating the Constitution. It’s justice.
Get your gun and get out into the fucking streets then
There are no longer any rules?
Then why the fuck are you all sitting around watching?
Strategy and tactics tell us that your idea is not realistic. You need to understand that laws are threats of violence and the last person to speak in any situation is the person holding the biggest gun. The mayor of Chicago cannot out gun the federal government and it’s nonsense to suggest he should try.
“Resistance is Futile” is a catchy philosophy, but not exactly a convincing one.
That’s not what I said at all. He is resisting. But he isn’t talking about arresting Federal agents like an online idiot who doesn’t know how anything works.
Pardon me for living in reality.
That sure is what it sounds like you’re saying, and while votes on lemmy are largely meaningless, they do seem to indicate that most people share the interpretation of your message that I’ve arrived at. Is it possible you’re not expressing your position as clearly as you think?
I can see how my first comment might not have been clear, but surely I can’t get much clearer than “That’s not what I said at all”. It sounds like you’re suggesting that your interpretation of my comment is what I meant regardless of what I was trying to say.
The mayor’s plan of “Ice free zones” is a great strategy because it sets up the inevitable court case. Regardless of what anyone on Lemmy thinks, the guy talking about “There are no rules anymore” is the doomer, not me.
There are, in fact, rules, and we either use the courts or [redacted so I don’t get banned]. Police officers arresting ICE is not on the table both due to federal supremacy and also because cops are fascists anyway and most are pretty happy about what ICE is doing. If you think cops are going to save you, you haven’t been paying attention.
Okay, I think part of the pushback you’re getting is due to you being just flat wrong about how local / state / federal law enforcement interaction works - a state municipality can absolutely arrest federal LEOs. It happens, not with frequency but it is not unknown by any means.
This situation is largely unprecedented in the political landscape but legally it’s completely feasible for the Chicago mayor to do what’s being proposed, and while I do doubt CPD would choose not to be their usual bastard selves, in a great deal of recent reporting they do appear to be siding with the city over ICE (or at least, not siding with ICE over the city. Which is shockingly egalitarian by their standards, really).
Don’t forget I also said a big part of the strategy is in the messaging, which needs to be ramped up exponentially. Loudly and repeatedly using strong rhetoric and deliberate propaganda, which is (usually exaggerated) messaging designed to achieve a goal, and what trump has been doing effectively for years.
Notice how trump backed off after Pritzker talked tough? Then Nosferatu (Stephen Miller) talked him into it again. Miller is the driving force behind how they’re using ICE. trump is continuously being manipulated by whoever has his ear at any time, and that includes --or can include-- his opponents if they know how to handle him.
^This is weak little bitch mentality right here.
Says a guy who’s in no position of power and is happy to sit back and dictate what people should do in far fetched situations he understands little of.
‘hurrrr he needs to sacrifice himself because I think it’s righteous’
I can’t understand little bitch language, unfortunately.
It is unfortunate you lack the comprehension, but you’ll get there one day sweetheart.